RAM Compatibility: Dell Dimension 2100

Pictured below are three RAM cards; the two on the left are LD 512mb PC133, while the one on the right is a 256mb PC133 of undetermined origin.


http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7628/ramphotosm.jpg

The problem: I am trying to throw together an old Dell Dimension 2100 as a backup computer to a friend whose PC keeps collapsing; I would prefer to use a Linux operating system, and have successfully installed Ubuntu on the machine.

However, it's an older chip (Celeron one-point-something gHz), and while the dreaming weasel (11.10, "Oneiric Ocelot") requires a minimum 384mb RAM, the Dimenison presently has 512mb in the form of 2x256/133; there are only two RAM slots on the board.

I think the system would run better on a gig of RAM; presently, I would not wish the thing onto anyone.

But the thing does not like the 512 RAM at all. It simply freaks out and beeps at me that it has no RAM.

Yes, I have checked to make sure these cards still work; they do. Yes, I have checked to ensure that the cards are properly seated; they are.

So that leaves me with compatibility issues. As a longtime Apple user, I really haven't paid a whole lot of attention to this issue. When I needed RAM, I simply ordered it online, and since Macs are so standardized, I could rest secure in the presumption that the cards would work.

And they did. Always.

The end result, of course, is that I would have no idea if the 512mb cards, pulled from a disused Apple Power Tower, are unsuitable for the Dell machine. At this point, my presumption is, "Well, it seats properly ... what's going on?"

Thus, any advice one might be able to offer would be greatly appreciated. And, of course, the requisite chastisement for the fruits of my apathy is already presumed, so be gentle, please.

Many thanks.

:cool:

There's a couple of potential issues.

I can't tell from the picture you've provided, but it could be a clock-speed issue.

Have you tried plugging the 512 card in by itself to see if that works?

Also, some MoBo's like to have symetrical RAM, other don't care - symetrical in this case being all cards the same size (bus speeds can be an issue here as well - the MoBo might not now how to treat RAM cards with different bus speeds).

So yeah - see if you can find an indicator of bus speed on the 512 card.
Plug the 512 card in by itself and see if it works.

I tried both 512 sticks, and got a failure. Is it possible that one alone will work, then?

The reason that I included the photograph is sort of obscure; it comes from Apple-related apathy. We rarely used terms like SDRAM or DDRAM in casual conversation; the big difference was "desktop" vs. "laptop" (a.k.a. "low profile")—at some point, Apple converted over to the "laptop" RAM. The physical difference between the two might, or might not, be relevant.

That's really the only point of the photo, as far as I can tell so far.

The problem is, as I start playing with Linux and remembering what computers used to be like before the shells became so vital to the discussion, I find that I'm now years behind the conversation, which pretty much renders me a blockhead for the moment.

These are 133 MHz chips, as near as I can tell—i.e., that's what the red letters say on the white stickers. If I'm reading that wrongly, I would not be surprised.

I'll have to crack open the box again to see what the 256s are, though the specs I'm finding online suggest 256 mb 133 MHz non-parity. (Software updates take forever with the present configuration; I'll have to wait a while to power down and open it up.)

You've mentioned (non) parity. Another aspect that I am aware of is (un) buffered.

However, it's an older chip (Celeron one-point-something gHz), and while the dreaming weasel (11.10, "Oneiric Ocelot") requires a minimum 384mb RAM, the Dimenison presently has 512mb in the form of 2x256/133; there are only two RAM slots on the board.

The motherboard in a Dell Dimension 2100 uses an Intel 810 chipset. This chipset supports a maximum of 512MB of RAM. In other words, you might as well just leave the two existing 256MB sticks in it. It's the best you can do anyway.

Hello, and tank you ford callink Dell. My name is Prakash. Let me see iff I cahn find a solooshun for dat promblem.

. . . .

Okay. Totally fucking with you.

First: 168 pin PC 133 DRAM is PC 133 DRAM, regardless of who used it (Apple, Dell, Gateway or IBM) or who made it (Kingston, Corsair or Crucial). They all make them based upon a pre-established set of criteria. Won't make a difference at all. So that's not the problem.

The Dell tech specs tell me a bit here: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/SYSTEMS/dim2100/specs.htm#memory

Conclusion: That system was produced between 2001-2002. It will allow you to bring it up to a MAXIMUM of 512 MB of memory, but only through combining two sticks of RAM. You cannot--for example--plug in a single 512 stick (it won't recognize it because--well--it that much RAM just wasn't needed back then in that system).

Additional info (and confirming what Tirppy said) from the website (though, non relevant because the system simply won't support a 512 stick):

NOTE: Your computer may have either PC 100 or shared2 PC 133-SDRAM modules at 100 MHz installed. Do not mix these two module types in the computer. To see which memory type is installed in your computer, inspect the label on the memory module.

. . . .

Thank you Mister Tiassa for choozing Dell as you know vee appreciate your business. Have a wonderful day.

~String

Now, since I'm such a nice guy‡, I will happily send you my last remaining stick of PC 133 256MB RAM. Should you feel comfortable with this, I'll have to have a mailing address to send it to you. Also, I'll need a clearer picture of that stick of RAM so that I can make sure they match.

~String

_________________________________________________
‡Truth is, I'm starting a new job and they are relocating me to the other side of Ohio. I don't want to move any of this shit and it's all going to the dumpster.
I also have all sorts of nifty riser cards if you need those too. Ethernet? Yep. USB 2.0? That too!! DDR 512MB each? All going to the dumpster starting this Saturday.

Super is correct. But, aside from the Intel 810's ridiculously low maximum RAM, you have another potential issue: low density versus high density RAM. A quick Google shows that the 810 does not support high density modules. If the 256 meg stick that String sends you is high density, only 128 megabytes will register.

Maybe if you keep an eye out, you can find something better? I'm a big computer junk hound, but even I would call that a leaverite computer; if I found it by the curb, I'd leave 'er rite there.

Edit: never mind, you already have the RAM maxed out, and that's all you really needed to know. That computer probably came with 98SE, or the abortion known as ME, and 512 would have been a lot of RAM for either of those operating systems.

Super is correct. But, aside from the Intel 810's ridiculously low maximum RAM, you have another potential issue: low density versus high density RAM. A quick Google shows that the 810 does not support high density modules. If the 256 meg stick that String sends you is high density, only 128 megabytes will register.

Maybe if you keep an eye out, you can find something better? I'm a big computer junk hound, but even I would call that a leaverite computer; if I found it by the curb, I'd leave 'er rite there.

Edit: never mind, you already have the RAM maxed out, and that's all you really needed to know. That computer probably came with 98SE, or the abortion known as ME, and 512 would have been a lot of RAM for either of those operating systems.

Hah!

What if it came with Windows ME!!!?? Ugh. What an abortion that was. HEY! I have an idea, let's pancake even MORE graphics and widgets on top of the DOS kernel and see what happens? It's like they were intentionally trying to fuck with people.

Tiassa: Another option is this (if you're willing to do the legwork). Every university in the universe has some swap-meet style warehouse where they sell their old shit. You're sure to find some old PC133 there.

~String

Well, thank you all for your insight. In practical terms, what this all means is that I should abandon the project; with only 128 MB of spare RAM after meeting the only known sysreq (384 MB), and on an old Celeron processor, the machine runs Ubuntu about as well as ... er ... um ... I don't know, the Everett Silvertips run a power play? (They're 8-27-1-8, which means they've won only eight of forty-four games, making them mildly worse than the Seattle Thunderbirds, who seem simply unable to actually play hockey.)

Yeah, this thing is a lost cause.

Looks like we'll be yanking the half-terabyte drive in my friend's computer and replacing it with something like an 80 GB drive. Or maybe not. But I do suspect physical damage to the bigger drive; we're waiting on an associate with high-end diagnostic software that we Apple users rarely—perhaps never—need and thus never acquire.

Well, that and a thaw. The snow isn't a problem, but the hill outside my development is ... well, let's just say last night was the first time since last year's snow that it was that quiet. Except for the guy determined to crown the thing around one in the morning, spinning his tires in futility for ... er ... right. Sorry, I digress.

Anyway, so much for the Dimension project. I think I've got a box upstairs somewhere that could use an extra gig of RAM. At least. (It has two open slots, and runs Vista terribly on dual 2 MHz processors and one gig of RAM. Probably needs defrag, too, but, well, once again I digress.)

Thank you all. I much appreciate the advice. So does my cranium. And the wall. And probably my neighbors, who likely heard the thump! thump! thump!

Linux probably will run on that machine if you take off any services for modern hardware you don't need and choose a lightweight window manager. Debian or a variant like Ubuntu or Mint would run okay with Fluxbox, LXDE or XFCE instead of gnome or KDE. You can download remixes of many distributions based on those lighter managers.

Having said that, if you tried to load chrome and play a youtube video, it would take all the remaining ram and probably make the video hardware cry. Worth a try if you're desperate, but I don't know how much good it would be for media rich usages.

I think I've got a box upstairs somewhere that could use an extra gig of RAM. At least. (It has two open slots, and runs Vista terribly on dual 2 MHz processors and one gig of RAM. Probably needs defrag, too, but, well, once again I digress.)]

Snap a picture of what the ram looks like (both sides, just to be sure) and I'll see if I have some compatible sticks. I have a few of DDR (which is the more modern version w/ 184 pins) that will be promoted to the Waste Management bin within the week.

Cheerio.

~String

Oh, well, thank you. But I still have the spare 512s that the Dimension wouldn't cope with. I expect those will work. I haven't tried to fit them, yet, but the mount looks very familiar.

My advice to you, for what it's worth, is to keep the RAM, if nothing else. And maybe the hard drives. Unless, of course, you have scads of the things laying around. But everyone I know eventually says, "What did I do with that memory? " or, "What did I do with that hard drive?"

Sure, I need to throw out my old 10 GB drives from the old G3 Macs, but the 80 GB drive I was running in a G4 Power Tower is a suitable replacement as a system drive for my friend's broken half-terabyte drive. And who knows? A better tech mind than I might be able to salvage the big one. In which case, my friend will have a good system drive and a huge storage drive.

I know people who can fill those drives, but the file list is insane.

Meanwhile, I need not remind you that, sooner or later, everyone needs spare RAM.

If I actually needed your components, I would gladly receive them. But my G5 Power Tower is set, with dual 2 GHz PPCs and enough RAM to get me through. My Dell (Linux) box is stupidly powerful, with dual 3 GHz and 3 GiB RAM. I'll pop my spare 512s into the Vista box upstairs, and hopefully that will settle matters, though I expect a defrag is in order, too.

But it might be that the RAM is newer; I'll open it tonight and find out. (It's not my computer, so I need to check in before I start tampering with its contents.)

Nice Mac tower! I recently built mine. If you can ever go with a solid state drive instead of a hard drive (with moving platters), I highly recommend it.

~String

Sorry Tiassa, but PC133 isn't going to be compatible with any motherboard capable of housing a dual core CPU. By the time multi core CPUs were on the scene, DDR was in widespread use (most dual core motherboards take DDR2, and they've moved on to DDR3). A quick and easy way to find out what memory a computer uses is to run CPU-Z, http://www.filehippo.com/download_cpuz/

Also, the least desirable part out of old computers is often the hard drive. OEM machines generally come with pretty mediocre drives to begin with. Hard drives tend to slow down as they age. It can be amazing how a new hard drive can improve an old computer. Sadly, one of the many unfortunate consequences of the floods in Thailand has been a disruption of hard drive manufacturing. The result has been a very noticeable spike in hard drive prices in the past couple of months.

but the 80 GB drive I was running in a G4 Power Tower is a suitable replacement as a system drive for my friend's broken half-terabyte drive.

An 8+ year old HDD isn't suitable for anything except the trash.

Well, okay, maybe you could use it to shuttle mp3 collections across town. But there's no way that you should use a drive approaching double its service lifetime as a main system drive. That's just asking for a massive system failure in short order. No HDD older than 5 years should be relied upon for anything important.

And does it even use an interface that a modern motherboard would support? You can get much larger, brand-new drives that support the latest interfaces for like $50 these days, so what's the point?


A better tech mind than I might be able to salvage the big one. In which case, my friend will have a good system drive and a huge storage drive.

A half-TB drive is no longer even in the "large" category. I've got two 2TB drives in my NAS set up as a RAID1, and this was not any kind of big deal. 1TB drives can be had for under $100 these days, so anything measured in GB is now "small." You have to go up to 3+ TB to be considered "big" these days.



I know people who can fill those drives, but the file list is insane.

Once you start storing entire movies in HD it ceases to be terribly impressive. A feature-length film in HD format can easily eat up 1GB+, so it isn't really that hard to go through a TB. It's just like the days of storing 5MB mp3's on drives that were a few GB in size.



Meanwhile, I need not remind you that, sooner or later, everyone needs spare RAM.

True, although I tend to acquire that new RAM in the form of a new computer. I gave up on maintaining computers for a long time years ago - better to buy cheap-ish netbooks and replace them every other year. I'm not sure that the Frankencomputer approach was ever particularly cost-effective, given all the trouble, and these days even the puniest netbooks have more power than anyone other than gamers and scientific computers require, plus the portability, so... yeah. The max-out period on what was once sufficient RAM tends to be a pretty good indicator that it's upgrade time.



If I actually needed your components, I would gladly receive them. But my G5 Power Tower is set, with dual 2 GHz PPCs and enough RAM to get me through.

"Set" for display in a history museum, you mean? I like the anodized aluminum case as much as the next guy, but can you even get software for that thing any more?



My Dell (Linux) box is stupidly powerful, with dual 3 GHz and 3 GiB RAM.

That's more like it, except for the fact that it was manufactured by Dell and so can be relied upon to fail horribly in short order. I cannot for the life of me understand why people keep purchasing their products, especially with so many competitors offering superior products for lower prices. See also: HP PCs, American cars, etc. Do people just hate Asia that much, or something?

Unless it's from their server division, which is somewhat better. But only really "good" if you shell out for the support services and insurance. For which price you can just buy a computer that isn't a ticking failure bomb in the first place.



I'll pop my spare 512s into the Vista box upstairs, and hopefully that will settle matters, though I expect a defrag is in order, too.

Why defrag when you can install an OS that doesn't totally suck?

My goodness, Quadraphonics ... thou art certainly an harbinger of cheer today ....

Okay, okay, yeah. The actual eight year-old drive in the G4 tower is only a six gig, and worked unreliably. The eighty gig drive is only a couple years old.

I should note that I loathe Dell and all other such computers; the efforts to which they will go in order to close down the architecture against upgrade is ludicrous. Meanwhile, as what has become my Linux box was, in fact, a dual-OS WinXP/Hackintosh that I never used and was given to me as a Christmas gift, I'm not going to complain about the brand name. (I have a terrible track record building frankenstein PCs; it's part of the reason I became an Apple user.)

And as to defragging the Vista box; there is the technicality that it is not my machine, so there is only so much I can do to help.

Meanwhile, as I learn more about the Linux environment, and reintegrate myself into the world, it's good to know that there is a reliable operating system that I can use to run inexpensive boxes; I might even try frankensteining again. The problem is that, despite adoring Apple, I'm always behind the performance curve, as I can never afford the latest new desktop computer. To the other, there are always sales going on at tech retailers that will put an inexpensive machine in my hands—i.e., something I can afford—and I can just blot out whatever Microsoft stupidity is packaged with the deal.

As the eighty gig drive turned out to be unsuitable for rescuing my friend's box, which uses SATA bus interface, I'll be throwing it back in the disused G4 tower, as well as the RAM that doesn't seem to work in any other boxes around here, and trying a Linux overlay on that hardware. It is, technically, possible. I just haven't seen it in practice. (Seeing a friend's work computer, an old laptop that shouldn't even be in service, running Ubuntu was what finally sold me on the idea of Linuxing the Win/Hack box.)

I figure it will be fun. Maybe I'll try Mint or some such.