I'll be glad when we get into the age of peace where we don't need to hate each other anymore and start loving each other. Does anybody knows where we get this hate from? Even Sylvia Brown doesn't even know where we get the hate from. :)

So when is this age of peace going to be upon us then?
Will it be a gradual process or will it just take over the whole world, suddenly?
It's good to dream.

The age of peace will supposedly come at the year 2050. I don't know if it's a gradual or it happens all of a sudden.

Does anybody knows where we get this hate from?

Evolutionary imperative.

Go DaveW! :D

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I am; therefore I think.

What do you mean evoluntionary imparetive? And who asked you Boris? All I asked was where we got this hate from.

itcmmdr-

Easy - hate springs from ignorance and fear.

Hate can also be taught.

The cure for hate is an open, inquisitive mind. You can maintain your own beliefs while still leaving room for others to have theirs - people don't seem to see this, though. "It's my way or the highway" kind of attitudes.

Love and hate are opposing states of emotion, they are inherent and like Dave W says, an evolutionary imperative.
To be successful as a species we've had to learn to ride a fine balance between the two.
But as with all psychological states, 'feelings and beliefs/illussions/delusions can all be induced (stirred), coerced, taught and forced onto an individual, both conciously and subconciously.


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I used to think I was weird...till I discovered Excoscience messageboards!

For crying out loud people, hate comes from Satan.

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

Satan is evolution. God is society.
(or rather, society is God)

Dave,

Please explain to me what you're talking about. I'm in a bit of a fog today.....I'm not catching your drift.

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

DaveW...everything is so.. green, yeah, Rasta far I !!

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I used to think I was weird...till I discovered Excoscience messageboards!

Lori--

So where does Satan come from?

thanx,
Tiassa

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The whole business with the fossilized dinosaur eggs was a joke the paleontologists haven't seen yet. (Good Omens, Gaiman & Pratchett)

I can answer that. Satan comes from people who wanted to control other people and the only way is to put Satan, devil, hell, and demons into the Bible. :)

uhh...wouldnt satan come from God?

No. Satan didn't come from God. We're missunderstood of what the name Lucifer really means. The name Lucifer actually means "Light". Lucifer didn't fall from grace, got banished, or rejected by God. We got the idea that Lucifer is a devil and where bad people go to by these powerful people centuries ago. Back then the Bible didn't have hell, the devil, demons and all that stuff until the powerful people like politicians decided to put them in the Bible. All they wanted to do is control people and they did it by scaring people by saying if you did this you are going to hell and put them in the Bible too. If you think about it that's how political and rulers control people. It's still like that too in some if not all in different countries around the world.

ltcmmdr- I will be the first one to agree that the concept of hell has been used by corrupt people to control the massess, and not just by christians. But the concepts were not created for these purposes. The concepts were created by scholars and outlaws who had no shot at power of any kind.

Rambler- Christianity does not depend on a fear of mortality. Not true christianity at least. It depends on a love of their god. Christians (at least those who really believe) dont live a life by their gods commandments because of fear, but rather to show their god how much they love him. Make sense?

Hinduism is more afraid of mortality then the Judeo-Christian religions. The entire basis of their religion (as woderful and complucated as hinduism is) is fear of rebirth, and rebirth occurs because of death.

[This message has been edited by Corp.Hudson (edited March 05, 2000).]

I have tried to ask this question before and it didn't realy get off the ground. What would happen to religion (especially a dogmatic one like christianity) if mortality was no longer a concern, i.e. genetics is pretty close to extending human life to something like 5000 years. What do you guys think would happen to our notions of God / Satan the afterlife.....How many religions that depend on human fear of mortality would survive such an event. Would religions like hinduism etc be more attractive to a human that wasn't afraid of dying???? or would we become essentialy an athiest society?

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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

I have to disagree with your point about Hinduism. The religion is concerned with striving for enlightment not fear of rebirth. You have twisted the concept in the same way that I twisted (not intentialy) the reason behind christianity. To clear up my point I believe that religion and a the common thread of a belief in an afterlife stems from the fear of mortality. So if that was no longer a concern would people (don't forget we are human and not even close to living up to christain ideals) still have a need for religion, or would it be more a need for philosophical fullfillment (is that a word?), thats why I mentioned hindu I wanted to give an example of a religion that has a big philosphical component.



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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

Tab,

What is wrong with you? Will you get off it already? Man! And I thought I was irritating. Anyway, God created Satan, so there's your answer. AND, I thought about it some, and I understand what Dave meant. And he's right. He's so smart. :)

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited March 06, 2000).]

Lori,
if you understood what DW said and agree with him, that means that society created satan.
Because satan is evolution and God is society or society is God according to what DW said.
He didn't say, God is God. Society is God, d'you get it?
Maybe Dave W can enlighten you. I would, but I gotta go whip my cream and make a cake for my missus.
Fancy a bit?

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I used to think I was weird...till I discovered Excoscience messageboards!

Tab,

Huh? *eye roll* You British guys, I don't know......You're making cake? American guys don't make cake, unless they've labelled themselves to be gay. ROFLMAO!

Anyway, here's what I came up with regarding what Dave said...

I think he's right in that evolution is the way that Satan has influenced us. Remember that I think that the fall of man was a genetic manipulation? Remember that I think that our "natural tendencies" are usually sinful? That's what I mean. And then you have the opposite. All of the stuff that seems to bring a society together like forgiveness, love and sharing are from God, and are most UNNATURAL TO US. I don't mean that these things, evolution and society REPLACE God and Satan, but EXPLAIN them. See?

What kind of cake is that you're making Tab? I'll "fancy a bit" (that's so cute) if it's saaaaaaaaaay, a spleef brownie! LMAO!

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited March 06, 2000).]

Originally posted by Lori:
Tab,

Huh? *eye roll* You British guys, I don't know......You're making cake? American guys don't make cake, unless they've labelled themselves to be gay. ROFLMAO!




That is soooo unbelievably sexist and stereotypical, I had to cry with laughter into my apron.

Actually this was my first time. It turned out a bit harder than I'd desired. But after smothering it with her wild apricot conserve and my freshly whipped cream, it at least looked good enough for a gobble.
And I must say it tasted great.
We've got some in the fridge if you want. Perfect after the kookamarruka!
Or even after bible study!


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I used to think I was weird...till I discovered Excoscience messageboards!

Well honey, I agree with you, that was sexist, but I'm glad I made you laugh. :)

I'm so impressed! And I'm sure it tasted great, and even if it didn't, it's the thought that counts, so I'm sure it'll "work" anyway. ;) Tee-hee.

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

ltcmmdr- You said man created Satan and hell to keep people under control. Yeah, whoever did must of been pretty good at it, since all you see now is killing, and thousands of people are dying every day. You see most Gang bangers are Christians, yet they still do bad things, like killing and stealing, they dont give a crap. You say religion was created to control people, but, all its done is make war. Hell was made to scare people...heh

"Morning star" also means "Light" and its still affiliated with the devil, as is "Lucifer." But the only proof you can go by is whats you see, you cant just make up new stuff. So the bible says God made satan, and no other book says he didnt, so, that must mean God made satan, right?

uh, how many people here don't beleive in God? Or a God? Can i get a count?

I just wanted to mention that "Lucifer" is a middle-ages name for the Devil. The following is from Burton's Lucifer: The Devil in the Middle Ages:


In medieval literature the Devil is usually called Lucifer or Satan. "Lucifer" was unusual earlier in the Middle Ages because of the tradition applying the name to Christ, the lightbearer, but it became as common as "Satan" in later medieval literature. (p. 246)

Lori

For what purpose was the Devil created? Have you any opinions to share, then, that God's will, through the Devil's works, is that a child should suffer and die?

Rather, to be more objective within the subjective arena, I should ask instead what insights you would share as to the nature of the Devil's creation? How did he arrive in his present state of evil? How does he relate to God? What is the Devil's relationship to humanity? These factors, at least, must be considered before I would assert that the God of Judeo-Christian tradition would will such horrors. Within my own sphere, I come to such conclusions, but in that sense it's a far different definition of evil that I'm working with.

I mean, I don't entirely get your genetic manipulation thing, but that's 'cuz I have no broader picture of how it fits in. Before the Devil can manipulate humanity, the Devil must become the Devil, as such. (Background! Background! I need background, dammit! Somebody give me Technicolor ...!) :D

Unicron... Not to be trite, but I'm compelled to seek a definition of God. Sure, this or that magazine says anywhere from 75-94% of Americans believe in "God", but to be honest, I've never met a public manifestation of God that rang quite true. It isn't that I really want to worry about how my neighbors express God, except that it so often seems to be working against my perception of progress. So in the end, I wonder exactly what those 75-94% believe ... statistically, I should find someone out there who has reached the same allegedly natural conclusions I have.

But, as the mysteries of God include Its image, I don't feel guilty if I add my own warped version of reality to those who believe in the various images of God.

* * * * *

In general ... Normally, though, it bugs me. Then I realize the point of believing in God is not having to believe in God. (J.D. Salinger, in Franny and Zooey, alludes to a form of this, that God can be inherent in every living moment and act; the extrapolation being that deliberate, conscious acknowledgement of God is extraneous.)

(See more glass.)

But it's all quite messy. Before I have to duck, might I disclaim thus: treat the phrase not having to believe in God very delicately; anyone choosing to read the phrase as implying heavy-handed disregard needs to be more creative.

But look at me ... how I do prattle on.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

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The whole business with the fossilized dinosaur eggs was a joke the paleontologists haven't seen yet. (Good Omens, Gaiman & Pratchett)

Tiassa,

What you're asking is probably some of the hardest questions that I ask myself. Jesus and I don't usually delve into this topic exactly....it's like, I have so many problems of my own, GIVEN the existance and affect of Satan, and my calling to live for Jesus, that I don't get around to asking Him those hard theorectical questions. Which He'd probably tell me it's not my concern anywho; He's right ya know. I'd have to be quite the dumb-ass to question Satan's existance, so given that, it's just kind of a mute point. God has given me some revelation though as to how it is that Satan operates and what caused the fall of man, and how it is that Satan manipulates us. As to his origin though, I really haven't questioned that so much. It stands to reason, given what I DO know, that Satan was created to be very special. A very special angel, or little god. I think that he was "second in charge" concerning our creation possibly. I think that to reconcile scientific history to Biblical history, you would have to include humanity's history BEFORE Genesis. It is EVIDENT that this history exists, we just don't know MUCH about it. But we know some. I think that Satan ruled a kingdom on this earth before Adam and Eve. I think that he was in charge of creating us. He is the one who gave us our "missing link", our evolution so to speak. Got to his head, his power that is. Decided that he wanted us to himself, so he worked it into our genes to not know God. To be tempted by evil, which is anything BUT the original intent of our Lord. I do know that we used to be very different. And yes Boris, even the animals were different, and will be again. It seems to me that the same reason that the civilizations that built the pyramids, and the civilization before the great flood, and our civilization now have things in common is because of his influence. There is always talk, and archeological record of hybridization with demons. It's spoken of frequently in the Bible as well. I'm trying to figure all this out myself? Well, gotta work.....

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

Originally posted by Lori:
Tiassa,

There is always talk, and archeological record of hybridization with demons. It's spoken of frequently in the Bible as well.



Please enlighten us Lori, where exactly in the bible does it speak of hybridization with demons?
And to which archeological records are you refering to?




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I used to think I was weird...till I discovered Excoscience messageboards!

Talking about when the sons of God laid with the daughters of men. There are lots of other references as well, but I'm not much of a scripture spewer. Also, where did Adam and Eve's son get his wife? Talks about giants. The nephilum; same thing. Hybrids. Demi-gods of mythology; same thing. Aliens; same thing. It speaks of Noah as the only genetically "pure" family left on the planet before the flood. That's why he was "picked". From an archeological standpoint, I'm talking about the bevy of info that blows Darwin all to hell and back, and the typical creationist view as well. What about the missing link? What about all of these "lost civilizations"? What about all of the lost technologies? What about Atlantis? What about the pyramids? I've seen all kinds of weird shit....skeletons found from prehistoric times with big ol' alien heads. There's just too much evidence that doesn't add up to anything else. You know, one of these days maybe you guys will get interested enough to actually SEEK THIS INFORMATION OUT YOURSELVES. I am planning to write a book, but until I do, I'd be hard-pressed to be able to present even a little bitty piece of the bevy of info out there. I wish that you all wouldn't blow the Bible off like you do, and the prophecy that's in it. It's frustrating. It's like you expect me to come out here and sum it all up in a paragraph or two, and it's impossible. Just open your mind, and start searching already!

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.

http://www.georgeanderson.com/askga2.html

do you beleive in this stuff?

Lori,
"skeletons found from prehistoric times with big ol' alien heads" -- its called skull binding and it was common in many civilisations of that time. I also have pics of statues that look just like the Grays. -- Perhaps they were imitating their deities...see you kind of kill your demon argument when you look for proof in acient times, cause those civies mythologies also contain accounts of big vessels coming out of the sky, flames shooting out from their bottom, and briliant light....you however say that demons (aliens) don't travel in craft of that kind.

Lost Civies etc......There is no archeological proof of ANY KIND that they ever existed. The ancient world is a mysterey but I've never heard it explained with demons.

Think about this then:
People here agree that they don't really know where satan came from etc...the general agreement is as follows:

Prince of darkness, Evil blah blah blah...
Manipulates humans ignorant of God...
Master of deception (that is very evident in the Bible)...


So have you guys pondered this thought...Satan decieved us into thinking he is God/Jesus...etc and made us worship him through deception, further he made us utterly denounce God by making us think God was infact Satan (think about what is said during baptism/confirmation rituals)........mission accomplished we follow satan and now we are (in this age of human insanity) begining to enter an age where hell rules. It kind of explains why the house of god (satan) is so utterly flawed by evil deeds.

I'm probably gonna be damned forever for even contemplating such a thing but I can't help thinking it fits. Also this is not my belief only something I would like feedback on.


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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited March 07, 2000).]

Rambler,

I'm saying that their "deities" were demons. And you may think that your postulate is twisted, and it is ;), BUT it is the very same twisted rhetoric that came out of the mouth of my friend Flash, who is an abductee. Well, kind of, in that her story is more like there is no Satan, and that Jesus is deceptive (as if He were the closest thing to Satan that existed). That His spirit lives on to deceive us. And all I can say is that IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HIM, OR IF YOU KNOW HIM PERSONALLY, that just doesn't wash. It doesn't jive with what ACTUALLY EXISTS in the world you live in. Take a look around....if you actually ask yourself, in EVERY situation, WWJD?, and then actually seek the truth to answer this question and understand why the answer is what it is, you would see that we would rid ourselves of sooooooooooooo much pain and suffering and death. What you're proposing is paradoxical. All of the doctrine in the Bible would have to be half true and half false. And the Bible itself puts a stop to that notion by saying that God is NOT the author of confusion but Satan is. Many people find the Bible confusing, but many find quantum physics confusing too unless they devote a hell of a lot of time and effort and energy into understanding it, and ALSO use the correct material and teaching methods to educate themselves regarding it. Christianity is NO DIFFERENT.

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You may think I'm a nut, but I'm fastened to the strongest bolt in the universe.