Interesting, our "sharp elbowed" arrogant incorrigible defense secretary, after swallowng hard, has admitted (kind of) that the war crimes that have been commited by America's finest in Iraq (perhaps even in Afghanistan) are "all his fault."

He admits that he has had the reports of murder, torture and mayhem by the US military on his desk since late in 2003. However, he admits that the release of the torture photos have kind of, ah-hem, made him attend to the problem later rather than late-late-later. :rolleyes:

He asked not to be questioned about GITMO since the US media isn't allowed into the Cuban facility, which (of-course) makes it easier for the military to cover-up its crimes and atrocities inside GITMO, at least for now, (GULP!). :eek:

However, he refuses to resign and our Whitehouse terrorist admits that he would be "lost" without Rumsfeld's expertise as a war criminal, err, err, I mean, WAR SECRETARY.

See: http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut33.html

Whirlwild....

((((honk)))) if you're glad to have the Whirlwind back! :)

Man you sure have some serious issues. All the posts you make are USA bashing posts. Perhaps you should try that life thing most of us have.

((((shoot)))) if you're not glad to have the Wirlwind back! :)

Someone has to do it...there're too many neopats around...so we get america bashers to balance it out.

Besides, we've never held ourselves to the Geneva Conventions...we think we're better than the rest of the world (whether that's true or not I'm not going to make a decision, I don't care enough)

Honk ! Honk !

I'm still laughing at the memory of Bush and Rumsfeld complaining that American soldiers who were captured in Iraq being paraded in front of the cameras, all bruised and scared was such a breach of the Geneva Convention. Yet what do we see from the US forces? They've been captured doing the exact same thing they were supposedly saving Iraq from. Remember the speeches given of how terribly Saddam treated his prisoners. We were told the stories of how they were beaten, attached to wires, stripped naked and raped, stripped naked be set upon by dogs. Now, were they telling us about their own practices or the practices they were fighting to eradicate in Iraq?

Now we see a Government in further damage control and funnily enough, I've not seen or heard one single speech from anyone in the Whitehouse about how the war was to save the Iraqi people from Saddam and his sick ways. Ironic? Or maybe it's just the saviours having been caught doing exactly what the bad man was guilty of doing. Bush and Rumsfeld must be feeling extremelly uncomfortable with the media portraying their little liberating soldiers as doing and being the same thing that Saddam's oppressive soldiers are guilty of. And being the leaders of these little soldiers, it'd put them in the same league as Saddam in the tyrant stakes.

I like to know from all you Rumsfeld bashers what you would do to a terrorist prisoner that you know just planted a neuclear device in some city and isnt talking. Would you give him a cup of tea and cookies and hope he will tell you where the nuclear device is planted?

Just like Jack Nickolson said "You cant handle the truth"

And what I'd like to know from all you Rumsfeld supporters is... why is Rumsfeld is looking so worried at the moment and why he's calling the actions of the soldiers in that jail as disgusting and deplorable? No offence Greco, but I think it's the Rumsfeld supporters who aren't able to handle the truth at the moment. Nasty to think that your hero knew that his soldiers were doing these things and didn't do anything at all until the media broke the story. Shame to think that he's saying that there's worse to come. Real nasty to think that he's now saying sorry to save his own arse. Imagine the uproar if it was another army that was doing this. But not the US.. noooooo...(yes that was sarcasm for those of you who can't pick it)... they're supposed to liberate and free Iraq from the likes of Saddam. Not replace it with the english speaking version.

I like to know from all you Rumsfeld bashers what you would do to a terrorist prisoner that you know just planted a neuclear device in some city and isnt talking. Would you give him a cup of tea and cookies and hope he will tell you where the nuclear device is planted?

Was that the case? :)

If so I'd send the guy to the intelligence people, not lowly privates who have no experience torturing. They're liable to kill the man, and we don't want him to die without getting information. And I wouldn't take pictures.

Man you sure have some serious issues. All the posts you make are USA bashing posts. Perhaps you should try that life thing most of us have.

((((shoot)))) if you're not glad to have the Wirlwind back! :)


Sorry B/man, but my people were the "original" Palestinian's here in North America and let's face it, the European racists, killers, scalper, small pox carriers, rapists and trespassers were nothing less than the 21st century V6.0 morphed hegemonic bass terds that go 'round the world' killing and maiming people all over the globe that refuse to "turn in their resources" to us or "lay down their weapons and surrender their land, water and resources" all over the planet, and then are (((shocked))) when "What goes around - comes around."

Ever read the MANIFEST DESTINY MANIFESTO?

America's HOLY GRAIL?

I thought you hadn't! :rolleyes:

Whirlwind...

In the end they even stole our name!

AMERICANS! :)

I like to know from all you Rumsfeld bashers what you would do to a terrorist prisoner that you know just planted a neuclear device in some city and isnt talking. Would you give him a cup of tea and cookies and hope he will tell you where the nuclear device is planted?

Just like Jack Nickolson said "You cant handle the truth"

Whirlwind opines:

A pair of vise grips to the gonads usually makes them talk F-R-E-E-L-Y and if you know what you're doing (CIA torturer contractor, here!) the bruise is difficult to locate and positively identify, even for the Geneva Convention WMD inspectors!* :D

Egads!

I'm becoming "one of them!" :eek:

Whirlwind....

*Gosh, you could destroy "generations" doing this!

In the end they even stole our name!

AMERICANS!

So Columbus named you? :)

Things are just getting worse and worse for the US. Not only are they being accused of torture and other atrocities in Iraq, but it seems that 70% to 90% of Iraqi detainees were not actually guilty of any crimes. They were in fact innocent. Now, here we have a situation where an army is calling itself the liberating army and they are supposedly liberating the Iraqi people from the tyranny of Saddam's rule where people were pulled from their homes for questioning for no reason, where soldiers would come into homes in the middle of the night and arrest all the males in the house, regardless of age or mental incapacity. Here is a tidbit of the report handed in to the Coalition by the Red Cross on the behaviour of treatment dealt out by the US soldiers. The comparison would be funny if it wasn't so god damned sad and pathetic:



The report also criticises the way in which arrests were made and says detentions tended to follow a pattern.

"Arresting authorities entered houses usually after dark, breaking down doors, waking up residents roughly, yelling orders, forcing family members into one room under military guard while searching the rest of the house and further breaking doors, cabinets and other property," it says.

"Sometimes they arrested all adult males present in a house, including elderly, handicapped or sick people," it continues.

"Treatment often included pushing people around, insulting, taking aim with rifles, punching and kicking and striking with rifles."

The report also says some troops told the Red Cross that 70% to 90% of those detained had been arrested by mistake.
Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3700975.stm)

Horrible to think that the majority of those detained and questioned and tortured by the US are actually arrested by mistake. The report also details the manner of questioning used by the US that uncomfortably resembles Saddam's manner of questioning. After all, if we want proof of that, we have only to look at the photos every day in the newspaper.

This is not a case of 'oops' anymore. Rumsfeld and Bush and the rest of the cronies have known about this for months. Why is it that they only press charges against the soldiers in the photos (scapegoats as well as perpetrators) when the media broke the story? If the US hierarchy find these images to be so disgusting and vile today, why weren't they disgusting and vile months ago when the photos first appeared on Rumsfeld's desk? Was it a case of out of sight of the media and public, out of mind? Why go through the hypocritical actions now of court martialling the soldiers involved today when their behaviour was deemed acceptable by the Pentagon and the US Government months ago when the atrocities were first reported to them? The problem we're seeing today is that the US is trying to save face because they got caught. After all, it is an election year.

I guess it was prudent of them to not have signed into the ICC as they probably figured that with such behaviour and actions being condoned by the US hierarchy, that there'd be a procession of soldiers facing the ICC for crimes against humanity. I watched the news today and saw the footage of Bush's face as he left the Pentagon after having viewed all the photo's and videos of the torture and murder of Iraqi prisoners. That wasn't just a man who was disgusted at what he'd just witnessed. That was a man who just realised that he'd been caught doing a very naughty thing in an election year. Probably thinking how daddy will get him out of this one. And they say the worst is yet to come. Bush once said that God told him to attack Iraq. I wonder if he's going to say that God also told him to torture and kill prisoners along the way...

Honk ! Honk !

Now, here's a man with class... ( 8 Whirlwind stars - 10 possible) :o

Doesn't have his head up his a**!

Tho, there's those "other" ones" that b!tch and yell...

Tho most of them can't even spell!

Whirlwind....

Dedicated to CC, (my "compassionate" probation officer) who is spelling MUCH BETTER hisself! :p

So Columbus named you? :)

Hum, another "regular" misinformed American.

Better read about "Americus" Pancho.
(Probably thinks Iraq is next to Panama). :rolleyes:

Whirlwind....

The Geneva convention(GC) only applies to countries that follow the agreement, all bets are off when the opposing country doesnt follow the agreement. For instance part of the agreement says no poison gas shall be used in war, now if the opposing force uses poison gas then we can use poison gas or neuclear weapons.

How does that apply to Iraq? Well, Iraq constantly violated the GC during the war by such behavior as pretending to give-up and suddenly attack our soldiers or dressing in civilian clothing and attacking our troops or attacking our toops then hiding in mosques and returning fire from such mosques or using ambulances to carry soldiers and ammunition or capturing civilian contractors and killing and dis-membering them.

What I'm trying to say is that if the opposing side doesnt play by the rules then we wont play by the rules.

What fucking rules?

The Iraqi CIVILIAN fighters should use all of the limited weapons available to them against the oppressive invader... including wile and trickery.

Poison gas was used by Saddam against his own people as well as others. Are the Iraqis using it in this war? No. But every time the Americans attack with powerful bombs and rockets, the toxic pollution they cause might as well be poison gas.

The terror they are causing with their daily bombardments, genocide and torture, on top of so many years of abuse by Saddam and so many years of sanctions, has created a generation of psychologically and emotionally impaired people that will be free of you one day. Fear them in your future.

Face it... America is a criminal state; a rapist of the world, a thief, liar and murderer and you cannot justify their actions with your inane drivel about Iraqis 'not playing fair'.

What fucking rules?

You either play by the rules or nobody plays by the rules.


The Iraqi CIVILIAN fighters should use all of the limited weapons available to them against the oppressive invader... including wile and trickery

What oppressive behavior? We are trying to set up a democratic goverment in Iraq in order to prevent another Saddam from taking over but my personal oppinion is put Saddam back in power and let him do his old tricks because that's what the Iraqi people deserve.


Poison gas was used by Saddam against his own people as well as others. Are the Iraqis using it in this war? No. But every time the Americans attack with powerful bombs and rockets, the toxic pollution they cause might as well be poison gas.


I stated that as an example to dispence with GC rules.


Face it... America is a criminal state; a rapist of the world, a thief, liar and murderer and you cannot justify their actions with your inane drivel about Iraqis 'not playing fair'


Hey I've been stating for a long time for the US to pull its troops out of Iraq and let the Iraqis fight among themselves, I'm sure that would be alot more to your liking.

Saddam was put into power by AMERICA in the first place and, to serve its own ends.

You hardly have democracy in USA; how do you expect the hated Americans to create a democracy in a land of 24 million people and of around 11 ethnic groups and religions? Democracy... between sworn enemies and created by sworn enemies? Don't think so!

Nothing is impossible, but somethings are highly improbable. America and Britain are constantly blowing that oily desert sand in everyone's eyes with their excuses and justification for war and it's advisable to wear shades and earplugs unless you want to end up feeling like a pillar of turd.

Any one with two brain cells can see that what they are trying to create is a puppett government that dances to America Land Of The Free and is willing to sell its oil and resources at rock bottom to the American and British interests that are sponsoring this atrocity.

What is really shocking to me is that most of the people that are masterminding this sad endeavour are the people that were growing up through that whole Vietnam war fiasco and were putting flowers in their hair, talking about love and singing Give Peace A Chance. Love surely IS strange.

You either play by the rules or nobody plays by the rules.

And what rules do Americans play by? The we're right and everyone else is wrong rules?


What oppressive behavior? We are trying to set up a democratic goverment in Iraq in order to prevent another Saddam from taking over but my personal oppinion is put Saddam back in power and let him do his old tricks because that's what the Iraqi people deserve.

Do you still believe that America is in Iraq to 'liberate' or to 'free' the Iraqi people?
The Americans are there for the OIL, its as simple as that, putting Saddam back in would mean no cheap oil thats why we (the west) fell out with Saddam in the first place.


I stated that as an example to dispence with GC rules.

So its perfectly alright to abuse torture and kill innocent civilians?
With that lodgic it was perfectly alright for Ossma Bin Ladden to murder 3000 New Yorkers, which it certanly wasnt.


Face it... America is a criminal state; a rapist of the world, a thief, liar and murderer and you cannot justify their actions with your inane drivel about Iraqis 'not playing fair'.

Yes America is a criminal state but if we're gonna start pointing fingers here this is gonna be a long post, my country is one of the worst (UK) as well as most of Western Europe, America is just playing the game we played so well in the last century.
Fair play to them, but just remember every empire crumbles eventually. :eek:

Hum, another "regular" misinformed American.

Better read about "Americus" Pancho.
(Probably thinks Iraq is next to Panama). :rolleyes:

Whirlwind....


No, Iraq is next to Japan, off the coast of Nebraska.

and excuse the Columbus, I know now that it was Martin Waldseemüller who named the continent, which is where the term "American" comes from, if I'm not mistaken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_of_America

Oddly enough, I was unable to find any references to "Americus" Pancho, though I did find that Amerigo Vespucci, for whom the continent is named after, also was called Americus Vespuccius ( http://www.junkfoodforthought.com/bio/bio_V.htm ).

Uhn... you're forgetting that these Iraqi detainees were/are suspects. Where's the American pride of law and order here: "innocent until proven guilty?"
That still exists? I thought that went further out the door from the start with the implementation of the Patriot Act? Now I think it's all been reversed to 'guilty until proven innocent'.

What is really shocking to me is that most of the people that are masterminding this sad endeavour are the people that were growing up through that whole Vietnam war fiasco and were putting flowers in their hair, talking about love and singing Give Peace A Chance. Love surely IS strange.
It's not love that is strange, it is just that the world is filled with hypocrites. Or at least in American territory? :D
Anyways... good post. Glad to see that somebody is not brainwashed... ;)

Walk up to a pacifist ask if he is a pacifist when he says yes hit him hard. Repeat this procedure enough and the pacifist will eventually say no. America is a collection of individuals and if the people in charge are guilty they will be tried and punished according to law.

I'm still laughing at the memory of Bush and Rumsfeld complaining that American soldiers who were captured in Iraq being paraded in front of the cameras, all bruised and scared was such a breach of the Geneva Convention.

only ONE US soldier has been captured and he is perfect health with no signs of torture and has said he is ok in videos released.

but what i think you mean is how America was bitching about Sadam (even though the US supported him :rolleyes:) and his torture.

anyway, Bush was bitching about the behaeading of that American "suvillian :rolleyes: "

anyway, i condemn what those extremeists did to that guy but what the fuck does America expect? it illegally invades a country, kills a million with sanctions, bombs the country twice in only a decade, and it expects the guerillas to not kill Americans? thats US foriegn policy for you. :eek:

anyway, i condemn what those extremeists did to that guy but what the fuck does America expect? it illegally invades a country, kills a million with sanctions, bombs the country twice in only a decade, and it expects the guerillas to not kill Americans? thats US foriegn policy for you.

civilians in this case being hired corporate mercenaries :)

true the word "contractor" is just blatant propaganda

meh, its just the current term being in use today to soften the word. The media likes to sound sophisticated.

anyway, i condemn what those extremeists did to that guy but what the fuck does America expect? it illegally invades a country, kills a million with sanctions, bombs the country twice in only a decade, and it expects the guerillas to not kill Americans? thats US foriegn policy for you. :eek:
:D

Anyone seen the new Simpson episode yesterday? :D