Since the reason for my demotion was given as "personal opinions" about Israel and the west, I want to know if it is permissible to open threads about Jews in this forum. To discuss the actions of Jews as Jews, to have an opinion or criticism on them.

I have previously noted that I have been warned about racism for saying things like "speshul Joos" while threads like Muslims lie, phrases by Jews [and Jews masquerading as athiests] calling Muslims different names, calling Palestinians as savages, cockroaches and in short any name under the sun have been left unmoderated.

So what is the acceptable criteria in this forum for talking about Jews? And how differently are they to be treated from other non-Jew members?

Please clarify.

i feel such terms as "joos" or "ragheads" should be stricken outright.
another is "mooslims".

What about xian? Can we say xian? And delusional/lying theists? Is that permitted?

if we are going to uphold the letter of the law then "xian" would qualify also.

a person can indeed be a delusioned and lying theist and be called such without discrimination.

Anyone receive a warning for racism for saying Xian? I just said it in a post, on a trial basis, to see how offensive it is perceived to be.

Is Xian meant to be like Xmas? Or is it something else?

I don't know. Does Joo have some special meaning?

Since the reason for my demotion was given as "personal opinions" about Israel and the west, I want to know if it is permissible to open threads about Jews in this forum. To discuss the actions of Jews as Jews, to have an opinion or criticism on them.

Can we do that for Muslims, too?

Can we do that for Muslims, too?

You wanted to be able to put me on ignore. Now you can. I suggest you use that feature. Thanks.

I don't know. Does Joo have some special meaning?

Well who are you referring too when you say Xians?

Well who are you referring too when you say Xians?

Christians of course. Who am I referring to when I say "speshul Joos"?

Thanks for actually answering.

I'm guessing you are referring to special Jews.

Thanks for actually answering.

I'm guessing you are referring to special Jews.

What does the term "speshul Joos" convey to you?

That you are trying to take the piss.

Not at all. If I am referring to those Jews who think being Jewish gives them some speshul rights over land and people, I designate them as "speshul Joos". Kinda like people refer to Islamic terrorism or Islamist militant. Is that offensive?

Why don't you just call them "special Jews"?

Because I want to caricaturise them of course. They are not really special, they only think they are, IMO. Or do you believe they are special? Of course, I could simply call it Jewish terrorism instead, would that be preferable? I personally find the terms Islamic terrorism and Islamist militant to be highly offensive to all Muslims.

Well I don't know who you are talking about so I can't comment.

Is Xian meant to be like Xmas? Or is it something else?
*************
M*W: Yes, and it has always been a non-offensive abbreviation frequently used in christianity. "X" is the symbol for the Christ. It may be offensive to some xians, because they just don't know the origination of it.

Here is where I used the words "speshul"


Could you quote a news report that indicates he questioned the validity of the Holocaust and Nazi death camps? There have been a zillion discussions on how many native Americans died by the hands of colonialists and what the means were. I think he is right to say that the holocaust should not have a speshul status as compared to say, the cannibalism of US POWs by the Japanese. Or do you think anyone asking questions about torture in Abu Ghraib is indulging in torture denial?

and "speshul Joos"


Ever wonder what happened to the Palestinians on whose homes you built yours? Who left empty handed because your parents thought they had a greater right to their land, their home, their stuff? Who cannot return because they are the not the oh so speshull Joos? Do you know their names? Their location? Which refugee camp they are rotting away in because the Joos deserve a country in their lands?

And joos


It could be multiplayer.

Joos vs Mooslims vs Xians

oooh what fun!!!


Here is all the other times I have seen the word joos. Now I received a warning for racism.


wow! there was memri in 7th century! <image deleted for posting>
boy those joos are clever. <image deleted for posting>


which joos are those. jew boys like me? parasitic joos? or the ones who should go back to europe?


what do you think? should the joos move back to europe by trucks or by the sea? maybe they can ask the palestinians to dig them a tunnel.


nice to have joos to blame for all your troubles.


so move the joos back to europe :D


then as victims of the holocaust they can ask the germans to give them a country. a lot better then to live with the joos. <image deleted for posting>


It's all part of teh joos conspiracy!!!111!!!!


Actually the issue was the "evil Joos in the media", not Finkelstein per se, but I'll give him a read if I have the time. Sorry you don't like progress on Pappe, but I don't have unlimited time. <image deleted for posting>



"PR"?

Is that where we remind ourselves that prejudice was turned into a tool for massacring millions of people? I thought you were all about that. Or for certain examples thereof, anyway.


but the joos cause all the problems in the world<image deleted for posting>:


i met muslims who say good things about joos, but most of them just tolled how i will burn in hell.


you mean da joos? :<image deleted for posting>:


Well it's about frikkin' time, maybe now we can deal with those stinkin' joos!!

*starches and irons brownshirt*


I was right about your Islamofascism genji/samdkey, since every reply you blame the joooos.
if the jews would listen to me they would crack on those muslim terrorists like you and not being so nice to you guys.
all day long you muslim militant fascist have in mind one thing: joos, joos, joos.
is that all Quran has to offer? losers?




it's always Israel's fault. these damn Joos should stop "defending" themselves. 60 years ago they'd be hanging upside down from a tree with forks up their asses, so they should be thankful for the much better predicament they're in today, and just take it like the Apes and Pigs that they are, eh?


something like that yeah...does damned joos :<image deleted for posting>:


I would like a glass of joos please. Then I'm going in to feed the eels.

They are not really special, they only think they are, . . .
since you persist in using the word "joo"
sounds a lot like mooslims dontcha think?

sounds a lot like muslims dontcha think?

More like Americans, I'd say. Do as I say, not as I do types. :rolleyes:

hey you edited your post.

Sure, I did not object to mooslims until I realised there was a double standard employed for Jews.

If I am to be warned for saying joos, then I want to know why Moslems, Mooslims, Xian etc are permitted.

Only human the lot of them. :D

Sure, I did not object to mooslims until I realised there was a double standard employed for Jews.

If I am to be warned for saying joos, then I want to know why Moslems, Mooslims, Xian etc are permitted.
"moslem" is no doubt a variation of the word "muslim".
these others can be dispensed with.
joo, mooslim, xian, etc, are nothing less than bigoted displays of knowledge.

Moslem is Arabic for oppressed. Its offensive to me.

Moslem is Arabic for oppressed. Its offensive to me.

Since the words Moslem and Moslim appear to be connected I wonder what Moslim means in Arabic.

Depends on how you pronounce it. Arabic is a phonetic language.

Moslem is generally pronounced muzlum, while Muslim is generally musslim

Depends on how you pronounce it. Arabic is a phonetic language.

Moslem is generally pronounced muzlum, while Muslim is generally musslim

It still looks similar to me though. What is the etymology behind "Muslim" ?

It comes from Islam.

See this thread [post #16] on Arabic derivatives.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=64348

I couldn't find anything at the link you posted, so I looked it up (duh..):

Muslim
from Arabic muslim "one who submits" (to the faith), from root of alsama "he resigned." Related to Islam.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Muslim

Islam
from Arabic, lit. "submission" (to the will of God), from root of aslama "he resigned, he surrendered, he submitted," causative conjunction of salima "he was safe," and related to salam "peace."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Islam

Fucking waterbags, the lot of them.

Is that a statement on humanity?

Because I want to caricaturise them of course.

I personally find the terms Islamic terrorism and Islamist militant to be highly offensive to all Muslims.

The hypocrisy of your attitude stinks. You are saying that you should be free to "caricaturise" Jews yet no one is allowed to "caricaturise" Mohammad or Allah or anything related to Islam. Bigot.

Can't find the ignore button? :)

http://www.sciforums.com/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=22054

Can't find the ignore button?

I see you're still not answering questions. Learned nothing, eh?

I see the yanks all think they're the only ones who know how to yank on a chain.

Hypocrisy is quite the practised art. You have to be sure that you have the wrong idea, and then you stick to it (like shit to a blanket).

Q is not a yank! Don't put yanks down like that! His patriotism is all about the monarchy in power and the parliament on that little island.

Sam-Yes it is. Waterbags are useless parasites, that destroy their surroundings in order to better function.

BTW-Q-Why do you want Sam to talk to you? Is love in the air?

BTW-Q-Why do you want Sam to talk to you? Is love in the air?

Hardly. He's just stubborn and wants me to "learn a lesson". Unfortunately for him, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks and he doesn't know the trick to get me to play nice :p

Can't find the ignore button? :)

http://www.sciforums.com/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=22054

Thanks for the link. I've been waiting to do that since I got here.

bigotry is bigotry and is wrong no matter the group it is against.

BTW-Q-Why do you want Sam to talk to you? Is love in the air?

Why do you want me to talk to you?

He is something of a one-trick pony, in my experience. I have always heard that such a condition suggests a weakness of mind.

I don't, Q. I'd rather stand back and mock you.

I don't, Q. I'd rather stand back and mock you.

Whatever gives you a hard on. :rolleyes:

He is something of a one-trick pony, in my experience. I have always heard that such a condition suggests a weakness of mind.

Nah, he just likes all the attention I give him, grudgingly of course. :p

So to get your attention, we have to be an asshead?

Nah, I'm just used to him I guess. He used to be better before. Getting cranky in his old age. :p

Since the reason for my demotion was given as "personal opinions" about Israel and the west, I want to know if it is permissible to open threads about Jews in this forum. To discuss the actions of Jews as Jews, to have an opinion or criticism on them.

Yes.

Please try to do it without insulting people, though.


So what is the acceptable criteria in this forum for talking about Jews? And how differently are they to be treated from other non-Jew members?

There's no difference.

Posters are expected to be able to engage in debate without insulting or stereotyping entire groups of people based on a set of assumed characteristics (race, religion, politics, etc.).

It is possible to discuss Israel/Palestine without disparaging either group. That does not prevent anybody from pointing out despicable acts on either side, although I would hope that this is done for some reason other than a mere attempt to "score points" in a multi-generational ongoing dispute over land. That kind of thinking is exactly what has caused the deadlock in Israeli/Palestinian relations for decades.


What about xian? Can we say xian? And delusional/lying theists? Is that permitted?

Yes, provided that some evidence or argument is made to back up the claim of lying, hypocrisy or whatever.

Mere name-calling is always a borderline posting activity here. Posts may be edited or deleted on a case-by-case basis.

The bottom line is: try to be rational. Try to make an argument, backed by evidence.

If you only want to disparage or hate, you're probably better off not posting.

Then may I ask why otheadp's/Spock's/Buffalo's posts disparaging Palestinians are never moderated? Or his insults? Mine are promptly deleted. Why, if stereotyping and generalisations are not allowed then you have entire threads dedicated to lying Muslims and posts dedicated to demonising Muslims as terrorists?


It is possible to discuss Israel/Palestine without disparaging either group. That does not prevent anybody from pointing out despicable acts on either side, although I would hope that this is done for some reason other than a mere attempt to "score points" in a multi-generational ongoing dispute over land. That kind of thinking is exactly what has caused the deadlock in Israeli/Palestinian relations for decades.

Is that why people are warned or banned for racism against Jews but anything said about Palestinians or Muslims or Arabs is fair game and complaints mount to a "persecution complex"?


If you only want to disparage or hate, you're probably better off not posting.

Don't you mean disparage or hate Jews? Because certainly there is plenty of venom against other groups that is left unmoderated.

SAM:

I'm quite happy to moderate otheadp's, or anybody else's, posts if they are insulting or stereotyping Muslims.

Hit the "report" button and I'll take a look.

I'm sorry to say James, that I have no faith in your ability to be unbiased. I've seen that with the threads on Muslims. But its okay, its the status quo at the moment to be disparaging of Muslims and you do like to stick to the status quo. :)

I'll do my best not to insult any Jews and try and put a positive light on Israeli actions, no matter how low they sink.

I'll do my best not to insult any Jews and try and put a positive light on Israeli actions, no matter how low they sink.
the first part i agree with, the second part i don't.
you shouldn't insult jews, or any other race but on the other hand you shouldn't "sugar coat" anything to make something "look better".
about muslims:
you must admit that islam is a political force to be reckoned with. even mideastern scholars have said it.

you must admit that islam is a political force to be reckoned with. even mideastern scholars have said it.

Do you see the irony of this when your country has been fucking with the world for a half century and presently occupies several countries which it controls by installing dictators and mass murdering civilians? Political force? In which country are Muslims a "political force" to be reckoned with? What reckoning are you involved with? :rolleyes:

Do you also see the irony of me being demoted for questioning the legitimacy of an OCCUPATION while several threads abound that demonise Muslims for their religion or culture? Apparently, I'm stereotyping, while they are having a legitimate discussion. Shooting kids in the eyes is stereotyping, while a bear named Mohammed is something the entire global Muslim community should apologise for. My "extreme" views are a bad role model for the forum, because I am more concerned about people being beaten to death in torture prisons in a country where hundreds of thousands are bombed on illegal pretexts rather than incidents of violence in the middle of a genocide, also engineered on fake pretexts. :rolleyes:

Do you see the irony of this when your country has been fucking with the world for a half century and presently occupies several countries which it controls by installing dictators and mass murdering civilians?
personally i've never considered america "fucking with the world".
why don't you mention the reasons for this "fucking"?

Political force? In which country are Muslims a "political force" to be reckoned with? :rolleyes:
i don't know, maybe you should ask some of the mayors of US cities or maybe the citizens of denmark. you could also ask the pope.
there are plenty of instances where muslims and islam has rioted, or caused such riots, all over.
do you really want a full disclosure of muslim ugliness?

You're worried about riots, but not about genocide and complete destruction of countries and the self determination of millions of people? And I'm extreme? the hypocrisy is astounding.

Do you also see the irony of me being demoted for questioning the legitimacy of an OCCUPATION while several threads abound that demonise Muslims for their religion or culture? Apparently, I'm stereotyping, while they are having a legitimate discussion. Shooting kids in the eyes is stereotyping, while a bear named Mohammed is something the entire global Muslim community should apologise for. My "extreme" views are a bad role model for the forum, because I am more concerned about people being beaten to death in torture prisons in a country where hundreds of thousands are bombed on illegal pretexts rather than incidents of violence in the middle of a genocide, also engineered on fake pretexts. :rolleyes:
i never had any problems with you as a mod.
i have however expressed my concerns to you in a PM about your ability to "lead your ship."

You're worried about riots, but not about genocide and complete destruction of countries and the self determination of millions of people? And I'm extreme? the hypocrisy is astounding.
genocide? man sam you are too frikken much.

I'm not here to lead any ships, I'm merely astounded with the misplaced priorities of people who put their own comfort before the lives and deaths of millions of people in the world and pretend to stand for some idea of human rights which is completely false.

genocide? man sam you are too frikken much.

Yes genocide. The American funded and trained Ethiopian genocide of Somalians. Where two year olds too had their throats cut. Did that stop the US in its tracks? No, they are STILL funding the genocide. You think those Somalians who immigrate are going to be happy about having their religion disparaged by the secular west they have seen funding the massacre of their people? That, if they riot, it is about the cartoons and not the bloodshed they have left behind or witnessed?


As one man, whose childhood friend became one of the rendition victims, told me, "Now when I go to the mosque, I pray to God to punish the Americans."

http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3/1619-silent-surge-bipartisan-terror-war-intensifies-in-somalia.html

And all you people can gasp over is the riots. Do you have any idea how many people are violently angry at all these things happening all over the Middle East and Africa? And that they blame the Americans for it? If nothing else, you should take that much away from my posts and at least realise what is happening around the world. Just because your media does not report it, doesn't mean its not all over the news (http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002858;p=0) elsewhere.

SAM:


I'm sorry to say James, that I have no faith in your ability to be unbiased. I've seen that with the threads on Muslims. But its okay, its the status quo at the moment to be disparaging of Muslims and you do like to stick to the status quo. :)

You obviously haven't really been watching my posts, or gauging my opinions on Muslims, or watching what I have and haven't moderated.

The simple fact is that in the Israel/Palestine debate, or in the Jew/Muslim debate (if you want to call it that), I'm about as unbiased as you can get. I am neither Jew nor Muslim. I have no Jewish or Muslim relatives. I've never been to the Middle East. I have both Jewish and Muslim friends.

Also, I have never disparaged Muslims on this or any other forum. I was defending Muslims immediately following the events of 9/11. If you're really interested, search my posts from around that time.

For somebody as biased as you, it must seem that everybody who dares to look objectively at Israel/Palestine is unbearably biased. You want Israel wiped off the map, so anybody who disagrees with that must be a Zionist, I assume, at least in comparison.

I am disappointed that even somebody with your education and intelligence is apparently unable to look at the issue objectively.


I'll do my best not to insult any Jews and try and put a positive light on Israeli actions, no matter how low they sink.

There's really no need to do that. Nobody ever said Israel was perfect. That is very far from the case.


Do you also see the irony of me being demoted for questioning the legitimacy of an OCCUPATION while several threads abound that demonise Muslims for their religion or culture?

Of course, Israelis do not see it as an occupation.

As a practical matter, the Israelis are never going to pack up and leave Israel, so it might be time to start dealing with the real world and looking for truly workable solutions.


Apparently, I'm stereotyping, while they are having a legitimate discussion. Shooting kids in the eyes is stereotyping, while a bear named Mohammed is something the entire global Muslim community should apologise for. My "extreme" views are a bad role model for the forum, because I am more concerned about people being beaten to death in torture prisons in a country where hundreds of thousands are bombed on illegal pretexts rather than incidents of violence in the middle of a genocide, also engineered on fake pretexts. :rolleyes:

You are setting up straw men here.

Of course, Israelis do not see it as an occupation.

Know any occupier that does?



As a practical matter, the Israelis are never going to pack up and leave Israel, so it might be time to start dealing with the real world and looking for truly workable solutions.

You're thinking Australia, I'm thinking India. We have different backgrounds. IMO, Palestine under the Jews would be akin to the aboriginals under Australia. Eventually, if the Palestinians want their self determination, they will have to fight for it. No way the Israelis are gonna give them ANYTHING. Anyone who thinks they will are not paying attention to Israel. If they want a divided state that is their decision. But I'm not going to pretend that Jews around the world have some right to Palestinian land because they have installed themselves there. Its not right by any moral standard and I see no reason to pretend it is. 200 years in India did not extend that right to the British, 60 years in Palestine is no excuse for Americans to perform aliyah today and create even more refugees by evicting elderly Palestinians from their homes. I went to Mecca too and needed a visa and passport to go there, even with all Muslims. If there were any Jews, should I have evicted them and taken their homes? Its ridiculous to even suggest something like that.

I'm curious, would you say the same thing about Russian occupation of Georgia or Ethiopian occupation of Somalia? Or does the fact that its a religion/ethnicity based occupation by Jews make it more acceptable to you? Do you think Australia was wrong to intervene in the occupation of East Timor? What was your "objective" viewpoint there, as compared to my biased one here?

Eventually, if the Palestinians want their self determination, they will have to fight for it.

How do you think that's been working out for them so far?

Not too well, I'd say.

The only chance Palestinians have for self determination is through diplomacy and negotiation. Oh, and that's also the only way that Israel will become safe from rocket attacks, too.


No way the Israelis are gonna give them ANYTHING. Anyone who thinks they will are not paying attention to Israel. If they want a divided state that is their decision. But I'm not going to pretend that Jews around the world have some right to Palestinian land because they have installed themselves there.

The Jews have connections to the land of Israel that go back thousands of years - just as the Palestinians do.


Its not right by any moral standard and I see no reason to pretend it is. 200 years in India did not extend that right to the British, 60 years in Palestine is no excuse for Americans to perform aliyah today and create even more refugees by evicting elderly Palestinians from their homes.

I agree 100%. (Surprised?)


I'm curious, would you say the same thing about Russian occupation of Georgia or Ethiopian occupation of Somalia?

I don't know enough about the history of Georgia and Ethiopia to comment. With recent events in Georgia, it seems to me that at least some areas of Georgia considered themselves to be rightfully Russian. But I could be wrong.


Do you think Australia was wrong to intervene in the occupation of East Timor? What was your "objective" viewpoint there, as compared to my biased one here?

East Timor was invaded by Indonesia and denied its internationally agreed right to self determination. For many years, Australia stood by and did nothing. Eventually, our government did the right thing, but it took a long time and numerous acts of violence by Indonesia to provoke action.

The Jews have connections to the land of Israel that go back thousands of years - just as the Palestinians do.

So what? How does this give an American Jew circa 2008 any right to move to Palestine and kick out a Palestinian to build homes for Jews? I'm sure there are German, Irish and Lord knows how many natives of several countries in America. Do they have a right to their "native land" that includes kicking out people who stay there? You think the descendents of the Aztecs and Mayans can get a right to return" kick out the existing population and install a state there? If you have a connection, you apply for a visa an visit. You don't get a long term indefinite never ending lease on the land, granted by a third party.


East Timor was invaded by Indonesia and denied its internationally agreed right to self determination. F

Whom did you support? Indonesia? Don't they have historic ties to the land? Wouldn't it have been better for both of them to work out a workable solution rather than have Australia impose its extreme and biased will on them?

What do you think of this extreme biased view of the UN?


Israel will boycott a United Nations conference on racism next year, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Wednesday, charging it would be biased against Israel and aim to delegitimize the Jewish state.

The next World Conference Against Racism is scheduled to take place next April in Geneva, Switzerland.

The U.S. and Israel walked out midway through the 2001 World Conference Against Racism in Durban, South Africa, because of a draft resolution that singled out Israel for criticism and compared Zionism — the movement to establish and maintain a Jewish state — to racism.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gEyB4yzw5FH0J8GjA84qDhD_RKywD94I6O7O0



I agree 100%. (Surprised?)

Not at all. But your extreme view is hostile to Zionists.

SAM:


So what? How does this give an American Jew circa 2008 any right to move to Palestine and kick out a Palestinian to build homes for Jews?

No. Nor does it give Palestinians a right to kick out the Jews who settled in Israel following WWII.


I'm sure there are German, Irish and Lord knows how many natives of several countries in America. Do they have a right to their "native land" that includes kicking out people who stay there?

Were they dispossessed? If so, they may be entitled to compensation. If they left voluntarily, then probably not.


You think the descendents of the Aztecs and Mayans can get a right to return" kick out the existing population and install a state there? If you have a connection, you apply for a visa an visit. You don't get a long term indefinite never ending lease on the land, granted by a third party.

It really depends on your point of origin, and also whether you were unlawfully dispossessed. Note, however, that the dispossession principle (if we want to call it that) doesn't extend infinitely far back in time, in ignorance of wars, the redrawing of national boundaries and so on.

As I said before, it is necessary to deal with facts as they exist, and not insist on harking back to an idealised state of affairs that may or may not have existed some time in the distant past.



East Timor was invaded by Indonesia and denied its internationally agreed right to self determination.

Whom did you support? Indonesia?

At the time, I was too young to know much about the issue.

I certainly support the current independence of East Timor.


Don't they have historic ties to the land?

Indonesia? No, I don't think so. The East Timorese have been ethnically distinct for quite a long time, as far as I'm aware.


Wouldn't it have been better for both of them to work out a workable solution rather than have Australia impose its extreme and biased will on them?

That's what they did!

In fact, there was international agreement about East Timorese independence. Australia's role was as an international peacekeeper, not as an imperialist enforcer.

How much do you know about East Timor?


What do you think of this extreme biased view of the UN?

Israel will boycott a United Nations conference on racism next year, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Wednesday, charging it would be biased against Israel and aim to delegitimize the Jewish state.

I think that in this case the bias is probably on the part of Israel and the US. Don't you?


But your extreme view is hostile to Zionists.

My view is balanced and reasonable. As I said before, I am only an extremist when viewed from your end of the extremist spectrum. In fact, I sit in the middle.

SAM:

No. Nor does it give Palestinians a right to kick out the Jews who settled in Israel following WWII.

They did not "settle" they kicked out the native Palestinians and forcibly took the land. Like the British did in India.




Were they dispossessed? If so, they may be entitled to compensation. If they left voluntarily, then probably not.

You're kidding right? Do you know of anyone who was dispossessed by the British or French who received compensation? Does that mean they can go back "home" and kick out those who live in their "rightful homes" 200 years ago?




It really depends on your point of origin, and also whether you were unlawfully dispossessed. Note, however, that the dispossession principle (if we want to call it that) doesn't extend infinitely far back in time, in ignorance of wars, the redrawing of national boundaries and so on.

Except for Jews. Who apparently have a "connection" to the land



As I said before, it is necessary to deal with facts as they exist, and not insist on harking back to an idealised state of affairs that may or may not have existed some time in the distant past.

Except for Jews. Who for 60 years have been dispossessing the Palestinians based on a mythical connection.



I think that in this case the bias is probably on the part of Israel and the US. Don't you?

Indeed, note however, you support the US and Israeli position of ignoring the [recent but not ancient] past, while the UN rightfully acknolwedges the racism of the Jewish state and questions its premise.



I certainly support the current independence of East Timor

My view is balanced and reasonable. As I said before, I am only an extremist when viewed from your end of the extremist spectrum. In fact, I sit in the middle.

Then you'll eventually get around to supporting the independence of the Palestinians, I'm sure. :p

Nor does it give Palestinians a right to kick out the Jews who settled in Israel following WWII. no offense james but you could make the case that they do in the case of people who are jewish in religion only which happens to be a rather large portion of the people.

if we are going to uphold the letter of the law then "xian" would qualify also.I don't know about that. X is a traditional symbol for Christ, as in Xmas. I don't think I've seen Xian anywhere but this forum, but it doesn't offend me. But then, not much does.

no offense james but you could make the case that they do in the case of people who are jewish in religion only which happens to be a rather large portion of the people.

When Israel was established, and certainly prior to 1967, there were agreed borders.

In principle, I support the state of Israel doing what it wants within those borders, with a few qualifications.

Do you have any idea how many people are violently angry at all these things happening all over the Middle East and Africa? And that they blame the Americans for it?
no, i don't have any idea how many people (muslims no doubt) that are violently angry.
why would they blame america? they aren't the only players you know.
the only reason i can think of is that there are plenty of blind sighted people (just like you) that can't see any other players.

it's a real shame you were raised in such conditions sam, a person of your intelligence would have went far in america. instead you choose to twist the meanings of words, misinterpret results, and use sensationalism, all to give the west and especially america a black eye.

why do you live here sam? dread going home to your backwards little country?

I don't know about that. X is a traditional symbol for Christ, as in Xmas. I don't think I've seen Xian anywhere but this forum, but it doesn't offend me. But then, not much does.
it doesn't offend me either, not really.
i believe a cross is the traditional sign of christ, not an X

it doesn't offend me either, not really.
i believe a cross is the traditional sign of christ, not an X
Nope, the original symbol was X:

Usage of X for Christ

The word "Christ" and its compounds, including "Christmas", have been abbreviated for at least the past 1,000 years, long before the modern "Xmas" was commonly used. "Christ" was often written as "XP" or "Xt"; there are references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle as far back as AD 1021. This X and P arose as the uppercase forms of the Greek letters χ and ρ), used in ancient abbreviations for Χριστος (Greek for "Christ"), and are still widely seen in many Eastern Orthodox icons depicting Jesus Christ. The labarum, an amalgamation of the two Greek letters rendered as ☧, is a symbol often used to represent Christ in Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christian Churches.[2]

The occasionally held belief that the "X" represents the cross on which Christ was crucified also has no basis in fact. St Andrew's Cross is X-shaped, but Christ's cross was probably shaped like a T or a †. Indeed, X-as-chi was associated with Christ long before X-as-cross could be, since the cross as a Christian symbol developed later. (The Greek letter Chi Χ stood for "Christ" in the ancient Greek acrostic ΙΧΘΥΣ ichthys.) While some see the spelling of Christmas as Xmas a threat, others see it as a way to honor the martyrs. The use of X as an abbreviation for "cross" in modern abbreviated writing (e.g. "King's X" for "King's Cross") may have reinforced this assumption.

In ancient Christian art, χ and χρ are abbreviations for Christ's name.[4] In many manuscripts of the New Testament and icons, X is an abbreviation for Christos, as is XC (the first and last letters in Greek, using the lunate sigma); compare IC for Jesus in Greek. The Oxford English Dictionary documents the use of this abbreviation back to 1551, 50 years before the first English colonists arrived in North America and 60 years before the King James Version of the Bible was completed. At the same time, Xian and Xianity were in frequent use as abbreviations of "Christian" and "Christianity"; and nowadays still are sometimes so used, but much less than "Xmas".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

anyway if the savages in israel cant do anything but bomb people from hundreds or thousands of Feet up in the air using fighter bombers, Apache helicpopters, however sometimes they destroy houses with tanks and bulldozers and other such destructive tools supplied to them by the US.

Failing this they cut of the water supply and power supply....but of course why shoudl they supply power and water to the people they occupy?? But they even stop them from producing or supplying the shit themselves.... And then the savages moan cos they get the odd rocket fired at them out of frustration these rockets have no destructive power in comparison to the israeli savages but the savages can not argue back but just make people feel sorry for them and the people (ie the west) are suckered into it somehow, even thoguh these rockets are unguided i wonder how many women and children in the israel)have been killed by unguided weapons against the number of women and children killed by the guided high powered weapons of the savages (israelis)who's govt betray the people and keep them savages cos all they want is eternal war as in to justify the weapons they buy and the collosal waste of money that it is

When Israel was established, and certainly prior to 1967, there were agreed borders.

In principle, I support the state of Israel doing what it wants within those borders, with a few qualifications.

Do you think there can be "agreed borders" when the people who live there are not involved in the process? Does the UN have the jurisdiction to "agree" to borders against their wishes?


no, i don't have any idea how many people (muslims no doubt) that are violently angry.
why would they blame america? they aren't the only players you know.

Gee guess they should think of all the "players" when the Ethiopians come in and slash the necks of their two year olds eh? Terrible of them to misinterpret the bombing and massacre of their people. Perhaps you should go there and give them some pointers as to the global view of the American funding of their massacre?


While you're at it do stop over at the neighbors:


The Eritrean president, Isayas Afewerki, has said the current economic, political and security crises being witnessed in the world are the consequences of the "vulgar adventurism" of the US Administration.

Presenting a report to a cabinet meeting in the capital, Asmara, on 28 August, President Isayas said the complicated issues and developments in the region were also part of the global political and security situations.

The president reiterated that the "genocide" being carried out in Somalia by the US Administration and its "servants" was "the biggest crime of the 21st century", and said even worse was the act of stifling to deny the situation the attention of the world.

President Isayas said Ethiopia's invasion of Somalia had exacerbated the situation of the already troubled Horn of Africa region. Compounded by "the worsening internal political crisis" in Ethiopia as well as Sudan's problems which were being complicated by "subversive" external interference were leading the Horn of Africa to "unimaginably dangerous" situation.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200808290503.html

Nope, the original symbol was X:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas
the X as a symbol for christ isn't mentioned on any of thr religious sites i visited.
here is one typical example:
http://www.library.nd.edu/about/symbols_of_christ/

Since the reason for my demotion was given as "personal opinions" about Israel and the west, I want to know if it is permissible to open threads about Jews in this forum. To discuss the actions of Jews as Jews, to have an opinion or criticism on them.

I have previously noted that I have been warned about racism for saying things like "speshul Joos" while threads like Muslims lie, phrases by Jews [and Jews masquerading as athiests] calling Muslims different names, calling Palestinians as savages, cockroaches and in short any name under the sun have been left unmoderated.

So what is the acceptable criteria in this forum for talking about Jews? And how differently are they to be treated from other non-Jew members?

Please clarify.

There is obviously preferential treatment of Jews on this forum in relation to Muslims. Nearly all of the Muslims on this forum have been banned or are simply treated by contempt by the moderators of this forum. The reason why you were demoted is because you hold unpopular views about Israel. I have never heard of moderators who intentionally personally attack and bait members get banned for this. Apparently, SAM was banned for her views.

You have made an interesting post, the more pro-Israel and Zionist a poster seems to be, the more susceptible to hate of Muslims that person is. Zionism lives at its heart over its ability to convince its adherents that Muslims are a threat and unworthy of pity.

In relation to Islam, any and all criticism seems to be allowed and even encouraged on this forum. Muslim posters put up with the worst personal attack and continuous hate campaigns to discredit Muslim posters are very popular among some bigots on this forum. The moderators stand idly by and when Muslims defend themselves, and in the case of people like Kadark who may have overreacted to insults against them and their religion, they are intentionally banned, even permanently for the littlest of things.

There is a feeling of hatred generally among Western populaces of Muslims, the moderators are also swept in this. This same feeling and rhetoric makes it possible for Muslims to be captured and tortured with no evidence for two to three years and then released on lack of evidence. The moderators don't think that the hatred displayed on these forums can promote violence against innocent Muslims.

Until the moderators understand that all the violence and hatred spreading in this forum is their fault and do something about it, what can we possibly do but to defend ourselves against these vicious personal attacks and the demonisation of our communities?

Well all I can say to the next wannabe moderators in the science forums is, if you have an opinion on anything you can express it. But not on Jews and Israel unless they follow the politically correct format. Better to ask for guidelines before posting. And just to be clear, its not the Jews I hold responsible for this, but people who think moderating a science forum should be determined by religious or political views, rather than scientific viewpoints. What next? Extreme ethical views? Extreme artistic views? Anything but the science, it would seem.

There is obviously preferential treatment of Jews on this forum in relation to Muslims.

This forum plans to be Impartial, however what we have here is one person of one religion professing over another religion at "Unfairness". This forum is itself supposed to be Predominantly a Science forum, in honesty Science might have it's place in Religion but Religion has no place in Science and this is echoed not just by my words alone but any community that attempts to be Scientific.

Some might argue "...But Einstein was Jewish" or some other famous person that did something in Science having a Religious background. Yes, they did have a religion however it was a Social Burden they bared, After all such Indoctrination in a Society isn't easily just shaken off and this is proven by the continued "mollycoddling" of Religion and the ability to Preach.

If you want true unbiased Moderation my "personal" response would be to ban any Religious Preaching on this site, this includes such rantings of "The Jews get preferential treatment over Muslims".

You see if we try to be unbiased and allow you to speak freely, you read into it as "Preferential Treatment" and manipulate it's meaning to your own will. So to make it completely unbiased The forum should ban all Religious preaching, talk etc. (This is of course my personal view, not something that the forum has suddenly decided before you start your annoying and quite pathetic complaint threads.)

The old-everyone is equal once they have nothing thought, eh, stryder? ;)

The old-everyone is equal once they have nothing thought, eh, stryder? ;)

That's pretty much it. It works with Children and it's suggestion (I gather by Jung) that everyone has an "Inner Child" (Technically it's just the make up of your youth being a dormant part of your Psyche that can boil to the surface, if you can't deal with a given situation correctly.)

Heck I even think some religious parables even state this to the religious masses, however they so easily get missed through the bigotry of closed mindedness. While I detest religion for what it's become, I don't argue the value of looking at some of the stories which they contain as they are historical occurrence's and documents of the first rules and regulations in regards to "Civilization". The problem is though that their structures remained unchanged while the world indeed does change. This is why legal systems came into being, procedural methods of practising law so such parabolic stories that can be misread, ignored or misconstrued could be left as annals in some History Archive.

Gee guess they should think of all the "players" when the Ethiopians come in and slash the necks of their two year olds eh?
why should they when they have people like you beating them over the head with a ballbat saying " it's americas fault you fools ! ! "
you know FOR A FACT that america is not the only player in ethiopia or somalia.
but guess what, you continue to bleat it like a broken record. you need to start posting the entire truth of the matter or i feel your posts should be censured.

why should they when they have people like you beating them over the head with a ballbat saying " it's americas fault you fools ! ! "
you know FOR A FACT that america is not the only player in ethiopia or somalia.
but guess what, you continue to bleat it like a broken record. you need to start posting the entire truth of the matter or i feel your posts should be censured.

Hey, its not me who is informing them, its the presence of US Special Forces training the Ethiopians and Americans interrogating them under their freaky rendition whatchmacallit on their prison ships. Also the US government deporting American citizens of Somalian origins and sending them to some cave somewhere, or whatever they call their offshore terror camps.

Info:


American Special Forces were deployed to Ethiopia to train local military units there, including Ethiopian special forces units that were part of that country's recent attack on Somalia. American forces, using our own intelligence in conjunction with Ethiopian intelligence, also flew AC-130 gunships from an airstrip in Ethiopia to track and kill terrorists in southern Somalia. This piece leaves me with as many questions as it does give answers.

http://www.ypfp.org/questions_about_the_role_of_special_forces


More blowback from the war on terror

The U.S.-backed Ethiopian military has secreted away scores of "suspects" -- including pregnant women and children -- and fueled anti-American rancor in Africa.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/01/africa_renditions/


RIGHTS: Rendition Victims "Missing" in Ethiopia
By Wolfgang Kerler

UNITED NATIONS, Oct 2 (IPS) - A new report by Human Rights Watch (HRW) accuses the Ethiopian government of detaining at least 10 victims of unlawful rendition incommunicado and without charge since early 2007.

According to the New York-based watchdog group, the detainees were interrogated by U.S. officials last year.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=44102

the soviets have nothing to do with this do they sam.
muslims, from god knows where (india perhaps?), have nothing to do with this do they sam.

If you can find their involvement I will be happy to entertain them, as I am sure will be the Somalis.

Besides, lets just stick to Jews in this thread. There are other threads about Somalia

This thread has been renamed because it's previous title could of lead people searching online to misconstrue that this was a thread for Hating, when in reality it's just about S.A.M.'s own views.

S.A.M. please don't bother starting a thread on "Stryder/Sciforums thinks [A thread on Jews] is an unreasonable title while X = Y". Over time the threads that would make up X = Y (those about Muslims/Islam) will be dealt with too, so you don't have to worry about unfair or impartial treatment.

If you can find their involvement I will be happy to entertain them, . . .
like you did the iranian coup of '58?

So now we cannot put Jews in the title either? I would rather you delete the posts on Somalia than change the thread title.

I want specifically to discuss about how Jews can and cannot be represented in posts and leo's posts were just btw.


This thread has been renamed because it's previous title could of lead people searching online to misconstrue that this was a thread for Hating, when in reality it's just about S.A.M.'s own views.

S.A.M. please don't bother starting a thread on "Stryder/Sciforums thinks [A thread on Jews] is an unreasonable title while X = Y". Over time the threads that would make up X = Y (those about Muslims/Islam) will be dealt with too, so you don't have to worry about unfair or impartial treatment.

You have a thread called Muslims lie. And you moderated a thread which said simply Threads about Jews. I think you are being unreasonable and biased.

You have a thread called Muslims lie. And you moderated a thread which said simply Threads about Jews. I think you are being unreasonable and biased.

That will be dealt with post haste. If anyone finds such thread titles please just report the thread for a "Title" violation using the report button and it will get dealt with. (please state though it's a TITLE violation, otherwise moderators might get confused)

... And technically I, Personally don't have a thread called "Muslims Lie", I could start a thread called "Someone who is a muslim thought I started a thread called Muslims Lie", however I'd obviously have to check with you on if you meant that personally or just saying that such a thread is named on the forum. So the "You have a thread" meant a "You" as in Sciforums.

I'm sorry to say, this has only proved to me that threads and posts about Jews are treated differently than those about others. The Muslims lie thread was complained about by many Muslims here but was never addressed. Now suddenly changing a thread title with the word Jews in it, makes that thread retroactively offensive?

I'm sorry to say, this has only proved to me that threads and posts about Jews are treated differently than those about others. The Muslims lie thread was complained about by many Muslims here but was never addressed. Now suddenly changing a thread title with the word Jews in it, makes that thread retroactively offensive?

I'm going to be cleaning thread titles now on "Religous Indifference", (Not just on Jews/Jewish related material). Should you have a comment you'd like to make... please respond after the tone.....

Bip!

Incidentally where is the "Muslims Lie" thread?

I'm disappointed. Thats all.

I want specifically to discuss about how Jews can and cannot be represented in posts and leo's posts were just btw.

huh? what? who? where?
what do you mean by "leo's posts were just btw?"

Please close this thread, I have got my answer and have no further interest in it.

Is Xian meant to be like Xmas? Or is it something else?

"Xian" is just a stupid term that evangelical atheists invented in order to make themselves feel special. The actual shorthand for Christian is Xn., and Christianity is Xnty. However, many atheists go out of their way to spend more letters than necessary in order to feel special.

The point of it is to annoy Christians, who dislike terms like Xmas.

As to the rest of this discussion, I have no comment.

As to the rest of this discussion, I have no comment.

That was unexpected. I confess, I was quite eager to hear your POV. But you made the right decision :p

That will be dealt with post haste. If anyone finds such thread titles please just report the thread for a "Title" violation using the report button and it will get dealt with. (please state though it's a TITLE violation, otherwise moderators might get confused)

... And technically I, Personally don't have a thread called "Muslims Lie", I could start a thread called "Someone who is a muslim thought I started a thread called Muslims Lie", however I'd obviously have to check with you on if you meant that personally or just saying that such a thread is named on the forum. So the "You have a thread" meant a "You" as in Sciforums.
*************
M*W: Hello, Stryder. I created the thread "Muslims Lie." Yes, it was a sensationalistic title, but my intention was not to offend Muslims. Had they read the thread clearly, they would have known that S.A.M. was the original person on this forum to admit that Muslims lie. This was not my opinion or belief, but I do admit to creating a shocking title. The idea it is okay for Muslims to alter the truth, according to the Quran, was mentioned by several Muslims I believe. For those whom I offended, I am truly sorry. That was not my intention. I was repeating what S.A.M. had admitted to prior to my making that thread.

Further, I explained several times why I made the title sensationalistic. It was just to attract readership. That's all. It is better to read the posts rather than rely on the title. Perhaps those Muslims who were offended didn't realize S.A.M. was the one who said that Muslims are permitted by their religion to lie.

If that's a good idea, expect a large number of sensationalist titles to be coming from me... Readership? Is this a contest? He who has the most replies wins?

If that's a good idea, expect a large number of sensationalist titles to be coming from me... Readership? Is this a contest? He who has the most replies wins?
*************
M*W: No, this is not a contest. I just want to be interesting and provocative. I've been writing a long time, but you must admit that there are plenty of other sensationalistic titles on sciforums. I'm more concerned with posting boring shit than I am with shocking those who may choose to reply.

Also, I believe I have made it very clear that I am not anti-Muslim. In fact, I have several close Muslim (and Muslim Indian) friends who don't lie. My thread "Muslim's lie," was based on comments made by S.A.M. that said it was okay for Muslims to lie. That's where the buck should stop.

It is never ok for Muslism to lie in debate, and changing the message of the Quran leads to one leaving Islam. Your point is invalid.

Stryder, being a moderator, you have locked a thread when the anti-Muslim propaganda was being debated by Muslims, now you edited the title of SAM's thread for no particular reason. Where are you when these threads insulting Muslims and vicious bigotry against us is present?

I'd like Medicine Woman to quote and link to the post where I said its okay for Muslims to lie

It is never ok for Muslism to lie in debate, and changing the message of the Quran leads to one leaving Islam. Your point is invalid.

Yet, we've seen Muslims on this forum lie, including you. Those lies have been pointed out to you and the other Muslims. Taquiyaa gives Muslims the stamp of approval to lie to non-believers to protect Islam.


Where are you when these threads insulting Muslims and vicious bigotry against us is present?

What threads? All I've seen are threads in which the Muslims here would like to see atheists and Jews eliminated from the planet.

LOL. Show where I have lied.

You love to shout out deception and dehumanize religious people [Muslims in particular since you are a Zionist Jew] but when asked for proof you always run away.

LOL. Show where I have lied.

You love to shout out deception and dehumanize religious people [Muslims in particular since you are a Zionist Jew] but when asked for proof you always run away.

Those were the posts you flatly ignored, liar.

I'm a Zionist Jew? Clearly, all you can do is throw out as many lies as you think people will lap up. Pathetic.

He's confused. Its Judaism that thinks lying and cheating is a sign of intelligence. Jacob lied to his father to steal his brothers inheritance and is considered an upstanding role model in Jews.

Details


The stories about Jacob also accord with Nuzi (Hurrian) law for it is recorded that a man may labor for his wife.7 In dealing with his uncle Laban, Jacob's trickery was matched by his uncle's deceptive acts. There is no condemnation of chicanery but, rather, the attitude that to best a man in a business contract revealed cleverness. When Jacob's hopes to inherit his uncle's estate were dashed by the birth of male heirs, he broke contract and fled, and it was only when a new contract was made that relationships were healed. The account of Jacob's night wrestling with an angelic visitor has probably come down to us through various recensions, for it now contains two aetiological explanations: one concerning the name "Jacob-Israel" and the other giving the reason why the ischiatic sinew is not eaten by Hebrews.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2065225&postcount=22

Source: an athiest site
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/gerald_larue/otll/chap8.html


I'm a Zionist Jew? .

Yes. Maybe an athiest Zionist Jew. But a Zionist Jew nonetheless.

Those were the posts you flatly ignored, liar.


So did I ignore some posts or did I lie? Make up your mind.

When you do, then let me know of where I lied. I'm interested to see.

So did I ignore some posts or did I lie? Make up your mind.

You ignored the posts that demonstrated your lies.


When you do, then let me know of where I lied. I'm interested to see.

So, you can flatly ignore them again, and then cry bigotry and racism. :rolleyes:

BREAKTHROUGH ! ! !
leopold discovers the best drain cleaner on earth !
the most caustic substance known to man !
he's gonna bottle and sell RELIGION ! !

You ignored the posts that demonstrated your lies.


Provide where I lied. You specifically called me a liar. If you cannot prove it, I expect an apology.



So, you can flatly ignore them again, and then cry bigotry and racism. :rolleyes:

Where have I lied? If you can't provide any example of me lying, then why go on with this deception and falsehood.