What would a hooker have to do to become a sex surrogate then?

Sex surrogates’ put personal touch on therapy (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29881206/)

“Jane” looks to be somewhere shy of 40 years old, though she’s squirrelly about telling me her age. She is, as she likes to say, “unaltered,” not a supermodel type. She’s slightly soft, ample in a pleasing way, with brown hair and an open face. I suppose you might say she’s average, but she earns part of her living in a very unaverage fashion.

Jane is a sex surrogate. Los Angeles-area therapists and counselors send male patients to Jane and then she takes off her clothes and engages in that time-proven pedagogical method of teaching by doing. In the three years she’s been a surrogate, she has taught about 20 men the pleasures of the flesh....

....“My favorite clients are the 40-year-old virgins,” she said. “Everybody is shocked, but there are a number of men out there who, for whatever reason, have not had many successful sexual experiences or none at all.”

Exactly what Jane does varies depending on the man’s needs. “I reintroduce people to their own bodies,” she explained. “It is close and intimate but not necessarily sexual. For example, for people with sexual trauma, it is important for them to know they can touch and be touched and not be in jeopardy.”

After every session, Jane reports back to the assigning therapist who uses the information in treating the patient. For some patients, Lawrence said, surrogacy may be the only method that works.

That’s why she is campaigning for the return of sexual surrogacy. “Look,” she said, “sometimes all somebody needs is literature. Sometimes they need basic sex ed, sometimes talk therapy. But sometimes people need a surrogate.”

You mean it's possible to have sex with a WOMAN?
Damn, my right hand's going to be lonely from now on...

A 40 year old virgin, now that's really a laugh! Sounds like just a new way or old way, of having a prostitute service you but in a "legal" way. I wonder how much she charges?

Omg!! There's hope for me, dragon and darksidzz!!! :D

What would a hooker have to do to become a sex surrogate then?

Sex surrogates’ put personal touch on therapy (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29881206/)

“Jane” looks to be somewhere shy of 40 years old, though she’s squirrelly about telling me her age. She is, as she likes to say, “unaltered,” not a supermodel type. She’s slightly soft, ample in a pleasing way, with brown hair and an open face. I suppose you might say she’s average, but she earns part of her living in a very unaverage fashion.

Jane is a sex surrogate. Los Angeles-area therapists and counselors send male patients to Jane and then she takes off her clothes and engages in that time-proven pedagogical method of teaching by doing. In the three years she’s been a surrogate, she has taught about 20 men the pleasures of the flesh....

....“My favorite clients are the 40-year-old virgins,” she said. “Everybody is shocked, but there are a number of men out there who, for whatever reason, have not had many successful sexual experiences or none at all.”

Exactly what Jane does varies depending on the man’s needs. “I reintroduce people to their own bodies,” she explained. “It is close and intimate but not necessarily sexual. For example, for people with sexual trauma, it is important for them to know they can touch and be touched and not be in jeopardy.”

After every session, Jane reports back to the assigning therapist who uses the information in treating the patient. For some patients, Lawrence said, surrogacy may be the only method that works.

That’s why she is campaigning for the return of sexual surrogacy. “Look,” she said, “sometimes all somebody needs is literature. Sometimes they need basic sex ed, sometimes talk therapy. But sometimes people need a surrogate.”

Sounds like good therapy to me :-). The netherlands is having some controversy over helping pay for sexual service for the disabled as well:
At Issue in the Netherlands:Is Sex for the Disabled a Right? (http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/08/04/sex_.php)

I think that in the ending, though, sex is not the most important thing, it's the feeling of being wanted.

What would a hooker have to do to become a sex surrogate then? ......
In the three years she’s been a surrogate, she has taught about 20 men the pleasures of the flesh....

Well, my guess is that only 20 men in three years wouldn't keep a hooker in clothes or shelter for very long! This "surrogate" crap sounds like just a little extra spending money for a bored housewife. ...LOL!

Baron Max

Well, my guess is that only 20 men in three years wouldn't keep a hooker in clothes or shelter for very long! This "surrogate" crap sounds like just a little extra spending money for a bored housewife. ...LOL!

Baron Max

But its the same 20 men over and over. Not 20 men once a year.

But its the same 20 men over and over. Not 20 men once a year.

Huh? Where did you get that idea?

How many times does it take to teach a man "the pleasures of the flesh"?

Baron Max

pffft. Yeah, men listen to what they are told. :rolleyes:

pffft. Yeah, men listen to what they are told.

Men have to ....if they want "pleasures of the flesh" without having to pay for it directly! :D

Baron Max

I've heard that there are "prostitutes" who focus especially on physically/mentally/both handicapped people and show them the pleasures of flesh.

Kind of creepy if you ask me..

Your paying for some sort of sexual gratification from someone else. That still sounds like prostitution to me. Everything a sexual surrogate does your average prostitute could do as well, if that is what was asked of them. Call yourself something different and it's legal, apparently.

Sounds like a great way to get your insurance to pay for your hookers.

its controvertial in that it breaches what is in all other health area's a very strict rule, DONT FUCK YOUR PT's (that being said alot of the nurses in the othopedic wards end up married to bikies:p) however that doesnt mean its nessarly wrong. In order to judge the efficasy or not of this i would prefer to have scientific evidence rather than a news report.

When CPR was first started, one of the treatments was to blow tobaco smoke up the "dead" persons rectum. Sound stupid? yes, is it stupid? yes and no. Nicotine has alot of similar effects (on the heart) to a drug we DO use in cardiac arests, ie adrenilin. It causes increased HR and possably increased contractability (though i would need to do more resurch on its effects on preload to be sure of that). Further more the rectum is STILL used as a drug admistration route because it bypasses the stomic and goes straight to a large permiable capillary bed. We have better routes now like IV and inhalation (ventalin being a good example of this one) but these are not as easy as you would expect to adminster drugs through (for instance until recently it wasnt possable to get drugs into the lungs because of its own defence mechanisium because the particals were to large)

...blow tobaco smoke up the "dead" persons rectum...

Is this for real? :eek: Was it actually ever practiced in the field?



its controvertial in that it breaches what is in all other health area's a very strict rule, DONT FUCK YOUR PT's (that being said alot of the nurses in the othopedic wards end up married to bikies:p) however that doesnt mean its nessarly wrong. In order to judge the efficasy or not of this i would prefer to have scientific evidence rather than a news report.

I would hope that the controversy extends beyond whether it is ever ethical to "FUCK YOUR PT's". It would seem that, in this case at least, if the "scientific evidence", presuming such evidence is available, indicates that this "treatment" is truly beneficial to the patient, then...

It would be absolutely necessary to "FUCK YOUR PT's" and / or engage in other sexual practices between Dr./Therapist and patient normally considered "unethical" to achieve these benefits.


However, it would seem self evident that if the treatments truly are beneficial and show verifiable and reproducible results they should be continued and encouraged. In this case, does this whole topic not become a question of "morals"?

We all know how easily consensus on morality can be achieved here on SF... :rolleyes:

yes it really happened (and things even more bazar to current medical knowlage like burrying them under hot coals)

on this specific issue moals shouldn't come into it. either the science shows it works or it doesn't

yes it really happened (and things even more bazar to current medical knowlage like burrying them under hot coals)

OK... That was just a new one on me, and I kind of revel in bazaar and unusual "factoids". Thanks... :)




on this specific issue moals shouldn't come into it. either the science shows it works or it doesn't

I agree completely and absolutely with "moals shouldn't come into it. either the science shows it works or it doesn't". Key word being "shouldn't".

Unfortunately, the uptight "holy rollers" will certainly throw in their two cents about the immorality of the practice, and try to convince the rest of us that any participants in this "unnatural" act are surely going to hell.

At that point, what "shouldn't" enter into the subject can be thrown out the window. It will become about the "morality" of the practice, like it or not...

Your paying for some sort of sexual gratification from someone else. That still sounds like prostitution to me. Everything a sexual surrogate does your average prostitute could do as well, if that is what was asked of them. Call yourself something different and it's legal, apparently.

hmmm, not necessarily, maybe the girl knows some ways to help him be comfortable with his sexuality and sex in general. who knows!

cut people up and your a sadist and get locked up, call yourself a DOCTOR however and its not only legal but people will not only line up to let you do it but will pay you as well

hmmm, not necessarily, maybe the girl knows some ways to help him be comfortable with his sexuality and sex in general. who knows!

I still think a prostitute could do that, too, because she is a prostitute. She just found a legal loophole.

After every session, Jane reports back to the assigning therapist who uses the information in treating the patient. For some patients, Lawrence said, surrogacy may be the only method that works.

That’s why she is campaigning for the return of sexual surrogacy. “Look,” she said, “sometimes all somebody needs is literature. Sometimes they need basic sex ed, sometimes talk therapy. But sometimes people need a surrogate.”

I think I'm going to go to the doctor's office, and get myself some "surrogate marijuana" to treat my glaucoma.

Assuming this were a true story, I think the term "surrogate" is being conceptually misused. If "sex with another person" is the core component that's being represented through proxy, then the person is not being given a replacement for sex. Plain and simple - they are being given sex with another person.

They should try not to obfuscate what's happening behind weasel words and call it what it is: Therapeutic sex partner. The motive is to achieve therapeutic benefit through sexual intercourse with a professionally trained agent. This also does not qualify as "prostitution" for that reason (since the defining motive of the prostitute is simply to make money).


As far as the therapeutic method itself goes - I'm with Randwolf on this one.

I think I'm going to go to the doctor's office, and get myself some "surrogate marijuana" to treat my glaucoma.

Assuming this were a true story, I think the term "surrogate" is being conceptually misused. If "sex with another person" is the core component that's being represented through proxy, then the person is not being given a replacement for sex. Plain and simple - they are being given sex with another person.

They should try not to obfuscate what's happening behind weasel words and call it what it is: Therapeutic sex partner. The motive is to achieve therapeutic benefit through sexual intercourse with a professionally trained agent. This also does not qualify as "prostitution" for that reason (since the defining motive of the prostitute is simply to make money).

I agree with you that 'therapeutic sex partner' is more easily understood then sex surrogate. Perhaps when they use the sex surrogate term what they're trying to say is that they're hoping it's a temporary measure, that the person who needs the surrogate will eventually no longer need her.

A prostitute's motivation is not necessarily to simply make money. It is a part of it, ofcourse (purely from an existential level, most if not all people need to eat), but there can certainly be other reasons; some do, in fact, like the sex, while others could certainly see it as a type of therapy. I think a sexual surrogate/therapeutic sex partner points towards what sex for money -should- be about, however; helping someone have the confidence to get a normal partner or, if they really are incapable of this, the second best thing (as in, the sexual surrogate).



As far as the therapeutic method itself goes - I'm with Randwolf on this one.

Same.

Originally Posted by SuperGirl
hmmm, not necessarily, maybe the girl knows some ways to help him be comfortable with his sexuality and sex in general. who knows!
”
I still think a prostitute could do that, too, because she is a prostitute. She just found a legal loophole.

I think it's safe to say that some prostitutes are reather messed up; that is, drug addicts and the like. However, I think that some aren't. I think that such prostitutes could take a course and become sex therapists. I still believe that all non coerced prostitution shoudn't be illegal as well; making it illegal simply makes it more dangerous for everyone involved.

I believe the issue has been raised that prostitutes can break up marriages, for instances. But if a person feels compelled to pay for a prostitute on the sly, then I think it's safe to say that his or her marriage wasn't exactly solid to begin with.

You mean it's possible to have sex with a WOMAN?
Damn, my right hand's going to be lonely from now on...

You're such a cad! ;)


I agree with you that 'therapeutic sex partner' is more easily understood then sex surrogate. Perhaps when they use the sex surrogate term what they're trying to say is that they're hoping it's a temporary measure, that the person who needs the surrogate will eventually no longer need her.


And I think this is where they're going. Most high end escorts are radically different from street walkers: They tend to be educated, better-looking, classy women. They're providing what's sometimes referred to as "GFE," the girlfriend experience. She talks to you before and after, maybe you have dinner, and maybe, barring some STD tests, you do some activities without a condom or dental dam.

And I fail to see the moral outrage if all parties are responsible and aren't flaunting their activities.

I wonder if she works with men only? What about women and couples?

I agree with you that 'therapeutic sex partner' is more easily understood then sex surrogate. Perhaps when they use the sex surrogate term what they're trying to say is that they're hoping it's a temporary measure, that the person who needs the surrogate will eventually no longer need her.

And I think this is where they're going. Most high end escorts are radically different from street walkers: They tend to be educated, better-looking, classy women. They're providing what's sometimes referred to as "GFE," the girlfriend experience. She talks to you before and after, maybe you have dinner, and maybe, barring some STD tests, you do some activities without a condom or dental dam.

True.




And I fail to see the moral outrage if all parties are responsible and aren't flaunting their activities.

Some people will be morally outraged anyway, but I think this would generally be the older generations; the new generations aren't so concerned, just as they don't more skeptical of many religious institutions as well.

I wonder if she works with men only? What about women and couples?

Don't know about the one you reported on, but I'm sure there are women who could fit the bill ;-)

A 40 year old virgin, now that's really a laugh! Sounds like just a new way or old way, of having a prostitute service you but in a "legal" way. I wonder how much she charges?

It is not a laugh, and it is not funny in any way. It is more emotionally and soul-crushingly painful than anything you could imagine.

Some people have extreme problems and need equally extreme methods of help.

I agree Izar. There are men here who struggle to socialize with women. I think a sex surrogate would help them even if they never had sex.

What about people who are uptight about certain sexual practices that their partners like? I wonder if she offers "advanced" courses? :cool:

You're such a cad! ;)
Yup.
"Right hand? You're history..."
Heartless, that's me.

Uptight? Like what? Doing it with the lights on or letting their Mom film it?

Do they have male ones who would lie in a bathtub full of ice cold water then pretend to be dead for me?

Do they have male ones who would lie in a bathtub full of ice cold water then pretend to be dead for me?

I think there would be a lot of men who would do that for you. You just need to know where to look. And they might want you to reciprocate.

I think there would be a lot of men who would do that for you. You just need to know where to look. And they might want you to reciprocate.

That wouldn't be a problem.

Might deter a boyfriend though...

That's why you make that guy your boyfriend. Marilyn Manson concerts come to mind

Do they have male ones who would lie in a bathtub full of ice cold water then pretend to be dead for me?

Why don't you just find a guy you like the look of, kill him and then put him in the bath?
It saves time looking and you don't have to talk to him afterwards.

....you don't have to talk to him afterwards.

that alone is worth prison

that alone is worth prison

:spank:
But he wouldn't be able to get you a beer afterwards...

I agree Izar. There are men here who struggle to socialize with women. I think a sex surrogate would help them even if they never had sex.

how hard can it be? 4am...just look for the chubby chicks.:shrug:

Uptight? Like what? Doing it with the lights on or letting their Mom film it?

I was actually thinking of your garden variety perversions like S&M, anal, golden showers, etc. However, I suppose those would be possible examples.

BTW, I've heard of a lot of sexual predilections but "letting their Mom film it"? That's a new one...

ok randwolf. ne need to get so graphic.

Reported.

Why don't you just find a guy you like the look of, kill him and then put him in the bath?

This has the added benefit of being able to eat him (literally) afterwards. If you have cannibalistic tendencies, of course. :D

Oh hey, yeah.
Cuts down on the grocery bills, more money for beer.
No downside.
Except for the guy of course.

ok randwolf. ne need to get so graphic.

Reported.

Sorry to offend your sensibilities there John. What euphemisms to you prefer for these practices? Or shall we pretend that they don't exist at all? Much warmer and cozier that way...

i was not offended but some people may be. that's all.

So you reported a post on behalf of "someone" (unknown and theoretical) who may (or may not) be offended?
It's a good job there was no mention of coprophilia or bestiality then. :rolleyes:

i was not offended but some people may be. that's all.

Then why don't you allow "some people" to do the reporting? Who appointed you Net Nanny here?

ok randwolf. ne need to get so graphic.

Reported.

What was graphic about his post?

There are people who do get a rise out of such things.. pun intended. It wasn't graphic. If he described them in detail, then we could say it was graphic, but just saying the name? Nah.


i was not offended but some people may be. that's all.
Oh man!

:bugeye:

What about in 10-20 years time (at the latest) when they (probably the Japanese, at the rate they're going) will have perfected the female robot to the point where there are gynoids (female robots, as above) taking over the role from Human girls? You want sex surrogacy? That's sex surrogacy...:D

Omg!! There's hope for me, dragon and darksidzz!!! :D

you underestimate me. I have already found my love. I dont need to look anymore.

What about in 10-20 years time (at the latest) when they (probably the Japanese, at the rate they're going) will have perfected the female robot to the point where there are gynoids (female robots, as above) taking over the role from Human girls? You want sex surrogacy? That's sex surrogacy...:D

The robot would have to be pretty advanced, a la Isaac Asimov. If it's about as intelligent as a car, thanks, but no thanks.

The robot would have to be pretty advanced, a la Isaac Asimov. If it's about as intelligent as a car, thanks, but no thanks.

If a guy wants a simple rumpy pumpy, would most guys care if she can't quote Poe off the top of her head?

If a guy wants a simple rumpy pumpy, would most guys care if she can't quote Poe off the top of her head?

Not quoting Poe is okay, but if she can't give an overview of the Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum physics she's out!

Not quoting Poe is okay, but if she can't give an overview of the Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum physics she's out!

Well duh. That's agiven.:rolleyes:

Although you would probably have to be a bit lenient since it involves the views and ideas of so many philosophers and scientists from the 20th century. So it would be entirely dependent on which view you wanted her to recite.:p

Well duh. That's agiven.:rolleyes:

Although you would probably have to be a bit lenient since it involves the views and ideas of so many philosophers and scientists from the 20th century. So it would be entirely dependent on which view you wanted her to recite.:p

Oh no: any view would be acceptable.
It's on my list of things to ask BEFORE buying her a drink.
All due to one ex who believed, as I found out too late, that:
1) "philosophy" is a made up word (and that after conferring with five of her friends)
2) my Armani could be purchased from the local Woolworths and worst of all...
3) had no idea who Ozzy Osborne is!!

Oh no: any view would be acceptable.
It's on my list of things to ask BEFORE buying her a drink.


Safe move I guess.


All due to one ex who believed, as I found out too late, that:
1) "philosophy" is a made up word (and that after conferring with five of her friends)
Maybe you need to go further afield than the local?


2) my Armani could be purchased from the local Woolworths and worst of all...
*Chuckle*


3) had no idea who Ozzy Osborne is!!
:eek:

But.. BUT.. He is an institution!

A man with a brain like Swiss cheese, but still, an institution!

:eek:

But.. BUT.. He is an institution!

A man with a brain like Swiss cheese, but still, an institution!
She spent three days sulking after some of the local (friend) teenagers shouted "Hey it's Tommy, he's a mate of Ozzy's" due to my (faint) resemblance to the rock DJ Tommy Vance.
And then she finally admitted why the sulk: she thought I was ashamed of her because I'd never introduced her to anyone called Ozzy.
"But they were talking about Ozzy bloody Osborne, it was a piss take."
"Exactly, but I don't know any your mates or anyone called Ozzy Osborne. You're just ashamed of me!"
Dumb ex-girlfriend left in the dustbin half an hour later... :rolleyes:

She spent three days sulking after some of the local (friend) teenagers shouted "Hey it's Tommy, he's a mate of Ozzy's" due to my (faint) resemblance to the rock DJ Tommy Vance.
And then she finally admitted why the sulk: she thought I was ashamed of her because I'd never introduced her to anyone called Ozzy.
"But they were talking about Ozzy bloody Osborne, it was a piss take."
"Exactly, but I don't know any your mates or anyone called Ozzy Osborne. You're just ashamed of me!"
Dumb ex-girlfriend left in the dustbin half an hour later... :rolleyes:

It could have been worse. She could have peed on an electric fence and then acted surprised that it hurt that much. *Sigh*..

It could have been worse. She could have peed on an electric fence
Please, what sort of women do you think I associate with?
Yes, granted that particular stupid one by error, but she had, um, other qualities.

Please, what sort of women do you think I associate with?
Yes, granted that particular stupid one by error, but she had, um, other qualities.

Cher.

Enough said really.

Cher.

Enough said really.
Hey, I grew up listening to "Bang bang" and "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves".
It was conditioning...

a lot of wiseacre responses but why not a serious discussion about this?

There are very timid men in our society who very well could be 40 year old virgins. In all likelihood they would die of old age and never have sex. The therapist who is a professional would need to decide if indeed that was the case and recommend the woman mentioned, for example. He would recommend her because he knows she, also, is a professional and he may have even given instructions to her, not on sexual technique but in how to talk to the patient and how to deal him in general.

I have never heard of this type of professional therapy treatment, but it seems there is a need for it in some cases.

I am not one of those cases!:)

charles
http://atheistic-science.com

The vast majority of people, including those who think rationally about most things, cannot sensibly discuss many things related to sex.

It is not just for people who are 40 year old virgins. But also for men and women who suffer from some disorders (eg. who feel uncomfortable about their bodies or their sexual prowess) to the point where they are unable to have sex and actually enjoy it.

Men who suffer from premature ejaculations, impotence, erectile difficulties, low to non-existent sex drives, etc can usually benefit from sex therapy which involves the use of a sex surrogate. So can people who have suffered from some form of sexual trauma or other from childhood to adulthood (eg. people who have been sexually abused and are now having intimacy issues). She's not just a paid hooker. She needs to work in conjunction with the therapist to help the client/patient overcome whatever issues they may be having.

If you really want to know more about sex therapy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/relationships/sex_and_sexual_health/enjsex_sextherapy.shtml) and why a sex surrogate might be needed, do a quick google search on it.

Sex Surrogate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_surrogate)

Here's (http://www.cosmopolitan.com.au/would_you_let_your_man_sleep_with_a_sex_coach.htm) a slightly titillating pretty good article on sex surrogacy.

I've thought about it more since I first posted. To be honest, I actually think this qualifies as prostitution--- albeit for a noteworthy cause, and within a "medically prescribed" format.

I don't imagine the clinical sex partner is going to do this for free. There is certainly going to be income involved as an employee of the clinic. Since the laws in many places make sex for money illegal, then the only way this therapy can be totally legitimate is if prostitution is decriminalized.

For some reason, I feel like I just committed a correlative fallacy in the paragraph above..... I always find these things later when I return to re-read the post hehe.

No, it's a psychological treatment that happens to incorporate sex, IMO.
Prostitution is just sex.

No, it's a psychological treatment that happens to incorporate sex, IMO.
Prostitution is just sex.

As far as I know, a prostitute is simply someone who engages in sex for money; I have never seen it defined anywhere as having to be exclusively for that purpose.

Answers.com
prostitute

Dictionary: pros·ti·tute (prŏs'tĭ-tūt', -tyūt') pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
n.

1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
2. One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.

Well we're not talking about the second definition.
Prostitution is a crime because it's about sex for money.
No sex for money = no crime
Psychological treatment for money = no crime (Even if happens to incorporate sex some of the time).

Answers.com
prostitute

Dictionary: pros·ti·tute (prŏs'tĭ-tūt', -tyūt') pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
n.

1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
2. One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.

Well we're not talking about the second definition.
Prostitution is a crime because it's about sex for money.
No sex for money = no crime
Psychological treatment for money = no crime (Even if happens to incorporate sex some of the time).

The idea that one who 'solicits and accepts payments for sex acts' should be a crime is, in my view, one of the sadder facts of our current political culture. A sexual act can indeed involve psychological treatment and I'm glad that you agree on that point. However, even if the sex professional isn't a psychologist or registered therapist doesn't mean that it should therefore be considered a crime. Your definition actually proves my point as well: it only says what they must do:
solicit and accept money.

It doesn't say they can't be sex therapists or be a benefit in some way to the recipients of their services.

There's a difference between sex "involving" psychological treatment and such treatment involving sex: the main intent.
And it's the intent: sex for money (any incidental by-product being just that) that defines prostitution.

There's a difference between sex "involving" psychological treatment and such treatment involving sex: the main intent.
And it's the intent: sex for money (any incidental by-product being just that) that defines prostitution.

I think you're reading far too much into the definition of the term there Oli :-p. Your definition was:
1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.

No mention of whether or not psychological treatment was involved, let alone whether the psychological treatment should have quotes to delineate questionable psychological treatment :-). And sorry, but no bracketed part either :-).

Um, the dictionary definition, and, AFAIK, the legal definition.

Sex for money.
That's prostitution.
Psychological treatment that happens to include sex is not SEX for money it's treatment for money, with added "benefits".

Um, the dictionary definition, and, AFAIK, the legal definition.

Sex for money.
That's prostitution.
Psychological treatment that happens to include sex is not SEX for money it's treatment for money, with added "benefits".

What do you think prostitutes are anyway, machines? They're human beings and they can and do at times form personal bonds with their clients. I don't see why what they do couldn't be considered as 'psychological treatment that happens to include sex'.

What do you think prostitutes are anyway, machines? They're human beings and they can and do at times form personal bonds with their clients. I don't see why what they do couldn't be considered as 'psychological treatment that happens to include sex'.

Does a prostitute work alongside and take notes for the therapist who is treating the "client"? Or are you suggesting that the therapist is some form of pimp?

What do you think prostitutes are anyway, machines? They're human beings and they can and do at times form personal bonds with their clients. I don't see why what they do couldn't be considered as 'psychological treatment that happens to include sex'.

They may form bonds.
But a prostitute is by definition someone who sells sex for money.
Not treatment, merely sexual services.
If they want to go down the route of being considered as offering psychological treatment then they should be regulated and have the relevant qualifications. (Some may well have, but only incidentally).

oh god people are dumb. ever herd of grevious bodly harm? think cutting someones chest open and removing the hearts arteries qualify? i just treated 2 pts who had just that done and there wasnt a cop to be seen. why? because doctors are alowed to do it if its a nessary treatment even ghough it would be a crime for joe blow. no different here.

But its the same 20 men over and over. Not 20 men once a year.

could be the 20 men all at once, 7 days a week. she'd be like 'sorry guys i've double booked you all, but we'll try and fit you in'. HA!

What do you think prostitutes are anyway, machines? They're human beings and they can and do at times form personal bonds with their clients. I don't see why what they do couldn't be considered as 'psychological treatment that happens to include sex'.

Does a prostitute work alongside and take notes for the therapist who is treating the "client"? Or are you suggesting that the therapist is some form of pimp?

I'm not getting into the pimp thing at all. I think that pimps mainly exist because of the illegality of prostitution. Change the legality bit and you get legal brothels, as you have on the outskirts of Las Vegas. I don't know about you, but I view sex as a very intimate activity and while some prostitutes may have become rather numb, I think that there is generally some emotional involvement on the part of the prostitute, as well as of the client. The role of a therapist and the role of a prostitute in this regard can be very similar indeed; people pay them in order to help them with a problem they have. In the case of prostitutes or hands on sex therapists, it will probably have more cases concerning sexuality and will deal with that aspect more, but I think that's about the only difference.

What do you think prostitutes are anyway, machines? They're human beings and they can and do at times form personal bonds with their clients. I don't see why what they do couldn't be considered as 'psychological treatment that happens to include sex'.

They may form bonds.
But a prostitute is by definition someone who sells sex for money.

A sex surrogate seems to do much the same thing.



Not treatment, merely sexual services.

There's no stipulation that a prostitute can't do both.



If they want to go down the route of being considered as offering psychological treatment then they should be regulated and have the relevant qualifications. (Some may well have, but only incidentally).

I'm not against this. However, I'm also not against legal brothels, such as the ones on the outskirts of Las Vegas. The one issue that hasn't been mentioned much but could be is, what if a person is wants to cheat on their partner with a prostitute? This is a dilemna which faces a lot of people, not just prostitutes. I've personally solved it by saying that I can help someone get out of an unhappy relationship but I've never aided someone in cheating.

I don't know about you, but I view sex as a very intimate activity and while some prostitutes may have become rather numb, I think that there is generally some emotional involvement on the part of the prostitute, as well as of the client. The role of a therapist and the role of a prostitute in this regard can be very similar indeed; people pay them in order to help them with a problem they have.

If this is any truth to this theory, I would think you would have to differentiate between your "street" prostitute giving BJ's in an alley and a high level "escort" that has dinner with you and maybe hangs out for a while after the "act".

I doubt the former has any emotional attachment, while the latter may indeed form a relationship. In that case, you could maybe make an argument that she (or he) is providing a kind of "emotional" therapy in the sense of bolstering self esteem, etc. Again, as Oli pointed out, it involves intent. What is the primary objective? Companionship, or straight up sex only?

This is kind of a grey area, but in any event, while prostitution has the potential to create all sorts of ancillary harm, if the participants are consenting adults I don't believe the government has any business prohibiting the practice.

Does anyone know how areas / countries with legalized prostitution fair in comparison with those places where it is illegal? I am talking about the spread of STD's, violence perpetrated against prostitutes (or their clients), rate of associated crimes such as robbery, etc.?

I don't know about you, but I view sex as a very intimate activity and while some prostitutes may have become rather numb, I think that there is generally some emotional involvement on the part of the prostitute, as well as of the client. The role of a therapist and the role of a prostitute in this regard can be very similar indeed; people pay them in order to help them with a problem they have.

If this is any truth to this theory, I would think you would have to differentiate between your "street" prostitute giving BJ's in an alley and a high level "escort" that has dinner with you and maybe hangs out for a while after the "act".

To be sure. However, I would contend that even a street prostitute may make a man happier and perhaps even live a better life. And isn't that the goal of therapy?



I doubt the former has any emotional attachment, while the latter may indeed form a relationship.

We are now entering the realm of doubts; I like that.



In that case, you could maybe make an argument that she (or he) is providing a kind of "emotional" therapy in the sense of bolstering self esteem, etc. Again, as Oli pointed out, it involves intent. What is the primary objective? Companionship, or straight up sex only?

I agree to some extent; sex by itself is simply a mechanical activity. But people are far more complicated than a car and this includes prostitutes of any level as well as their clients.



This is kind of a grey area, but in any event, while prostitution has the potential to create all sorts of ancillary harm, if the participants are consenting adults I don't believe the government has any business prohibiting the practice.

I agree; I think that it should simply be regulated, just as I believe that many illegal drugs should be regulated less stringently.



Does anyone know how areas / countries with legalized prostitution fair in comparison with those places where it is illegal? I am talking about the spread of STD's, violence perpetrated against prostitutes (or their clients), rate of associated crimes such as robbery, etc.?

From liberator.net's article on prostitution (http://liberator.net/articles/prostitution.html):

Health-Safety Issues
The status quo is a poor health-safety plan. With sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) like syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia and herpes, prostitutes must be monitored to prevent the spread of these afflictions. Chancroid, a STD typically found in third world nations, is occurring in places throughout the U.S. due to transmission brought on through illegal prostitution (Schmid, Sanders, Blount & Alexander, 1987 (http://liberator.net/articles/prostitution.html#Schmid)). Chancroid makes ulcers in the vagina that assist with the spread of HIV/AIDS.

A Public Health Review of Chancroid from the World Health Organization stated:

In Kenya, where the importance of chancroid in HIV transmission was first described in the late 1980s, interventions targeting sex workers and STD patients were implemented. Reported condom use by sex workers has since increased to over 80% in project areas and the incidence of genital ulcers has declined. Chancroid, once the most common ulcer etiology, now accounts for fewer than 10% of genital ulcers seen in clinics in Nairobi, Kenya.

In Senegal, HIV prevalence among pregnant women has been below 1% for more than a decade. A strong multisectoral response, an effective STD control programme and early legalization of prostitution have been credited for this low level. Special clinical services, for example, offer regular examination and treatment for registered sex workers. Not only has there been a significant decline in STD rates among sex workers and pregnant women between 1991 and 1996, but genital ulcers are also no longer common and chancroid is reportedly rare. (Steen, 2001 (http://liberator.net/articles/prostitution.html#Steen))

Steen cited a practical example of how government can help its citizens. It makes practical sense to monitor prostitution and what better way is there to monitor it than by legalizing it and regulating it? Legalization would require prostitutes to undergo regular medical examinations. STDs would be prevented from being spread as well as other communicable ailments like hepatitis and tuberculosis. It would also reduce gender violence, allow women to escape prostitution, if they so choose, and prevent women from becoming infertile as a consequence to obtaining certain STDs (Gavin, 2001 (http://liberator.net/articles/prostitution.html#Gavin)).