July's federal deficit falls to $52.8 billion
U.S. revenues up 13.7% so far in 2005; outlays up 6.1%


By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last Update: 2:12 PM ET Aug. 10, 2005



WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. budget deficit shrank to $52.8 billion in July from $69 billion a year ago, the Treasury Department said Wednesday.


The federal deficit was about $5 billion less than the $58 billion estimated by the Congressional Budget Office a week ago. Receipts came in $1 billion more than expected, while outlays were $4 billion less than CBO projected.

Through the first 10 months of the government's fiscal year, the federal deficit has totaled $302.6 billion, $110.3 billion less than at this time in 2004. Read the full report.

For all of 2005, the CBO currently expects a deficit of less than $350 billion, with the agency scheduled to make public an updated forecast next Monday. The White House forecast a deficit of $333 billion.

The July deficit was the lowest for the month since 2002. Receipts were $142.1 billion, a record for the month, up about 6% from last July.

Receipts are up 13.7% in the year to date at $1.75 trillion. Individual income taxes are up 15.1% to $756.1 billion, while corporate income taxes are up 41.7% to $205.9 billion.

Outlays are up about 6.1% at $2.05 trillion for the year to date.

Oh, don't worry ....any good news is followed by: "Well, it might be okay now, but just you wait a little while!!!" And any bad news is followed by: "See? Ddin't we tell you it'd happen!?!"

See? Ya' can't win ...no matter what happens, anyone can "see" the bad if they chose to look. Ditto for the good, I suppose.

But none of that shit means much to me.

Baron Max

It's still not a surplus.

Spidergoat:
Hey, good news! Your cancer has gone into remission!
Bah. Who cares. I'm still not cured.

OliverJ, I'm just curious, but who controls what the CBO spews?

There's no surplus, there is just less expenditures, which reduces the rate of expansion of the deficit. You can make it look good, like CBO did... :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, expenditure in military might be up, while expenditure in better areas like education a health care might be down. Take a look in the US. Is teh ehalth care system worse? Is the educational system worse? Where are the cuts, that creates the illusion of surplus, being made? :rolleyes:

Hell, TruthSeeker, it's not even really the illusion of a surplus. It's exactly as OliverJ and the CBO said: it's a reduction in the extremity of the DEFICIT! The deficit is only $52.8 billion. How much is the war in Iraq costing us by the way? OliverJ said: "July's federal deficit falls to $52.8 billion." WTF is this "falls" crap? Just because we were only short $52.8 billion this MONTH instead of the $58 Billion projected by the CBO "one week ago," we are supposed to be HAPPY!!!!!????? WTF REPUBS? At least Clinton could balance his god-damned checkbook. And I don't/didn't like Clinton!! You are deluded or you have an ulterior motvie OliverJ to post this crap. Same thing for the CBO and those who control what they "project."

What's interesting is all of that was repeated somewhat the same during World War I, World War II, the Korean War and Vietnam War, yet .....here we are, still rockin' along fat, dumb, rich and happy. How can you actually argue with that success????

Baron Max

Hell, TruthSeeker, it's not even really the illusion of a surplus. It's exactly as OliverJ and the CBO said: it's a reduction in the extremity of the DEFICIT! The deficit is only $52.8 billion. How much is the war in Iraq costing us by the way? OliverJ said: "July's federal deficit falls to $52.8 billion." WTF is this "falls" crap? Just because we were only short $52.8 billion this MONTH instead of the $58 Billion projected by the CBO "one week ago," we are supposed to be HAPPY!!!!!????? WTF REPUBS? At least Clinton could balance his god-damned checkbook. And I don't/didn't like Clinton!! You are deluded or you have an ulterior motvie OliverJ to post this crap. Same thing for the CBO and those who control what they "project."
Well, it's very easy to manipulate economics to one's own benefit... :rolleyes:

Well, it's very easy to manipulate economics to one's own benefit... :rolleyes:

You mean like creative book keeping the way companies do??? Like if you lost goods on theft, you still can double scan during inventory to show that you made money or will make money and no one is wiser. I know a few retailers do that. One rental company even makes up revenue when none is there by manipulating the data transfer process. The auditors would not know...they are not programmers...I wonder if same thing goes on in the government too???

Well, I suppose this kind of manipulation is fairly common, if it is that easy (or at least you make it sound easy)...

I was talking about making something sound good...

Some are easy...some are not...but when there is a will (or need)...like Enron, Worldcom...for every one that gets caught, hundred get away...:D

True. So god-damned mother-fucking true!

...for every one that gets caught, hundred get away...

Do you have any facts or evidence to back up that allegation? Or is it just an idle accusation without any justification?

Baron Max

Do you have any facts or evidence to back up that allegation? Or is it just an idle accusation without any justification?

Baron Max

How can we get the proof, mofo, when the "Cheney's" of the world keep so many god-damned mother-fucking secrets? Give me the minutes of "Cheney's" meetings with big oil execs., when He was formulating our "Energy Policy," and I'll give you a god-damned mother-fucking mouthful. Are you on the "inside" track? Can you get me the minutes of this meeting? Please?!

Do you have any facts or evidence to back up that allegation? Or is it just an idle accusation without any justification?
Baron Max

Since I know a few what they did, and I have signed confidential non-disclosure agreement, you cough up at least 50 million dollars, (so that when they sue me, I will be ready) I will tell you how and where to find the proof from their books.

But some are hard to prove. Such as, if you accuse the retailer for counting inventory wrong, they will say, Oh! it is that manager that did that, we did not tell him, where is the memo? Some employees could vouche for it, but will be afraid to...then you have to prove, it is company wide.

It is like saying there is no proof that most people go over sevety miles an hour on interstate roads, from just a few speeding tickets. We know the truth, don't we?

Yes, we know the truth. I call it the "pussification" of America. People like the Baron. Afraid to admit when they are so god-damned wrong, for fear of being wrong.

It is like saying there is no proof that most people go over sevety miles an hour on interstate roads, from just a few speeding tickets. We know the truth, don't we?

No, absolutely not! We ONLY know that those who were caught did over seventy miles per hour ......we still don't know anything about "most people", do we?

One of the sad things about "freedom" is how we feel so free with our incessant and unfounded accusations of wrong-doing. Practically our entire nation is founded on the laws of the land and the fact that we're innocent until proven guilty of any crime .......YET we're the first ones to feel righteous and elitist by making those unfounded accusations! Sad, very, very sad.


Since I know a few what they did, and I have signed confidential non-disclosure agreement,...

You can't sign any legal agreement to put yourself above the law! If you know of a crime and don't report it, you're guilty of conspiracy to commit that crime and are as guilty of the crime as those who are doing it.

Baron Max

You can't sign any legal agreement to put yourself above the law! If you know of a crime and don't report it, you're guilty of conspiracy to commit that crime and are as guilty of the crime as those who are doing it.

So, how many times you have reported people passing you over 70 miles an hour to the highway patrol or any law enforcement agency? California has a right to work law and yet, people have to sign employment contracts everyday. Microsoft is suing someguy that went to work for Google.

What planet are you living on? Rather than trying to kill the messenger, why don't you investigate? Or, is that your genetic trait? Do you know how many local, state, federal laws are in the books in just USA alone, not to mention International laws that we also have to abide by?

By the way, I did not say, I know of a "Crime".


......we still don't know anything about "most people", do we?

Just because you are ignorant, please do not add us to that group. There is no need to reply to my post. I can not match your hyper intellect.

Hey kmguru and Cottontop3000! Come visit my newest thread! ;)
Crazy Capitalism (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=845237#post845237)

no! spidergoat is back into the site? but he was gone for SOO long, and i enjoyed my amity without his irritating posts. well i guess if michale moore can take it, i guess so can i.

The nation's poverty rate rose to 12.7 percent of the population last year, the fourth consecutive annual increase, the Census Bureau said Tuesday.
(The New York Times)

The poverty rate? It's a joke.
05's level is $9,570. Do some simple math and you come out to an hourly wage of $4.60 with a 40 hour work week. Mind you, that this is before taxes. So let me ask you, where do you go to get a job that pays $4.60 per hour when federal minimum is $5.75. Of course that doesn't apply to employees who recieve tips.
Don't work 40 hours a week? Why not? That is less than a 1/4 of the total hours available each week. Let's assume you must get 8 hours of sleep everynight. That still leaves 112 hours in a week. Still more that 2 1/2 times 40.

Let's look at how the stat is figured:

Includes earnings, unemployment compensation,
workers’ compensation, Social Security, Supplemental
Security Income, public assistance, veterans’ payments,
survivor benefits, pension or retirement income, interest,
dividends, rents, royalties, income from estates, trusts,
educational assistance, alimony, child support, assistance
from outside the household, and other miscellaneous
sources. *

Meaning that all the low lifes out there living off wellfare and alimony get counted in. Meaning that the people making a good living under the table so they can cheat on their taxes, don't. People on unemployment get counted. People living with others and not holding down a job will also skew the stat, as long as they pay taxes. Students living in dorms and not holding down jobs will skew the stat.

It also doesn't count things like foodstamps and housing subsidies... you know, things all us lucky non poverty stricken bastards have to pay for.

Look at what you are babblilng about before quoting federal stats as evidence of anything.

I've lived just fine off of 5k a year. Anyone with a little motivation can do the same.
To make 15k a year (before taxes assuming a rate of 30%) it requires a job to pay under $7.25 an hour. Not unbelievable by anymeans, or hard to find if you are willing to swallow your pride and do shit work.

*from: http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/povdef.html

So, poor people really aren't poor? What are you saying? Whatever the standard by which we measure being a "low-life" poor person, the numbers are increasing, since the standards haven't changed in real terms.

Bastard.

Firstly, learn to read. Or, assuming that you can, stop misquoting. I never once said "low-life poor people" or anything of the sort. I refered to the people living off the system, instead of getting jobs, as low-lifes. Secondly, it's spelled out pretty clearly what I am saying. The statistic isn't an acurate representation of what you are attmepting to portray. Are you expecting us to pay students over 10k a year to go to school? That would get that large section of the stat above the poverty level. We should up wellfare too while we're at it, right? Make it more attractive than it all ready is to sit on your ass and not get a job.

Bastard? Why? Because I've lived a decent amount of my life under that poverty line and have always refused to take aid that I didn't need? That I am saying you can live decently at about half that level? Hell, one year I made less than three grand, and was still eating steaks at least once a week. But knowing how to budget my income and still enjoy life probably makes me even more of a bastard, right?

Statistics are skewed, plain and simple. Another one is the unemployment stat. Did you know that because of how it is complied it is actually impossible to have a 0% percent unemployment? Even if every member of the population is working?

But I suppose that pointing out the truth makes me a bastard as well, right?

And, if you want to get real technical, yes, they have changed. First of all, there are two different statistics that can be used. secondly, since mid 99 they have been looking into several revisions to how the stat is calcualted because it doesn't take into effect the cost of living in different locations. To make that simple for you, $500 doesn't spend the same everywhere.

Statistics are skewed, plain and simple.
It certainly happens, but not always.


Another one is the unemployment stat. Did you know that because of how it is complied it is actually impossible to have a 0% percent unemployment? Even if every member of the population is working?
Oh really? :rolleyes:
Any evidence?


But I suppose that pointing out the truth makes me a bastard as well, right?
Truth? Where? :confused:

The nation's poverty rate rose to 12.7 percent of the population last year, the fourth consecutive annual increase, the Census Bureau said Tuesday.
(The New York Times)

Hmmm. Maybe I was a little off here. Maybe I was using out-dated information. Let's see. What is "12.7 percent" of almost 300,000,000 (pronounced million) people? 10% is 30,000,000 people. So, what, almost 39,000,000 people now, below the poverty level. I wonder how many kids, children, tikes, lads, lasses, etc., etc. are starving in good ole america the great? Ahh, but america the great is so great, isn't it? Bull-fucking-shit.

And, if you want to get real technical, yes, they have changed. First of all, there are two different statistics that can be used. secondly, since mid 99 they have been looking into several revisions to how the stat is calcualted because it doesn't take into effect the cost of living in different locations. To make that simple for you, $500 doesn't spend the same everywhere.
There's no such thing as a simple statistic. There's just way too many things that need to be taken into account. Eventough we can have a sample large enough to mimic the population, the sample needs to be a reflection, or, in a metaphorical way, a direct mirrored image of the population. If that is achieved, then the statistic is accurate. Otherwise (which is often the case), then, it is not as accurate.

The research always needs to be carefully studied....

And, if you want to get real technical, yes, they have changed. First of all, there are two different statistics that can be used. secondly, since mid 99 they have been looking into several revisions to how the stat is calcualted because it doesn't take into effect the cost of living in different locations. To make that simple for you, $500 doesn't spend the same everywhere.


You are so right, Mephura. "$500 doesn't spend the same everywhere."


I've lived just fine off of 5k a year. Anyone with a little motivation can do the same. Let's see, $5000.00 a year. That is $416.00 a month. Still living at home with mom and pop Mephura? They paying for your internet connection too? Or are you just mooching off them, or your mate? You, my moron, are an idiot. Anyone here can tell that you have NEVER lived in america the great on your own. You need to go crying to your mommy. Fucking idiot.

Hmmm. Maybe I was a little off here. Maybe I was using out-dated information. Let's see. What is "12.7 percent" of almost 300,000,000 (pronounced million) people? 10% is 30,000,000 people. So, what, almost 39,000,000 people now, below the poverty level. I wonder how many kids, children, tikes, lads, lasses, etc., etc. are starving in good ole america the great? Ahh, but america the great is so great, isn't it? Bull-fucking-shit.
http://www.sciforums.com/archive/index.php/t-44808.html


In the U.S. hunger and race are related. In 1991 46% of African-American children were chronically hungry, and 40% of Latino children were chronically hungry compared to 16% of white children.

The infant mortality rate is closely linked to inadequate nutrition among pregnant women. The U.S. ranks 23rd among industrial nations in infant mortality. African-American infants die at nearly twice the rate of white infants.

One out of every eight children under the age of twelve in the U.S. goes to bed hungry every night.

As of 1995 (the latest figures available), Federal Reserve research found that the wealth of the top one percent of Americans is greater than that of the bottom 95 percent. Three years earlier, the Fed's Survey of Consumer Finance found that the top one percent had wealth greater than the bottom 90 percent.

Adjusting for inflation, the net worth of the median American household fell 10 percent between 1989 and 1997, declining from $54,600 to $49,900. The net worth of the top one percent is now 2.4 times the combined wealth of the poorest 80 percent.

The modest net worth of white families is 8 times that of African-Americans and 12 times that of Hispanics. The median financial wealth of African-Americans (net worth less home equity) is $200 (one percent of the $18,000 for whites) while that of Hispanics is zero.

Between 1983 and 1995, the bottom 40 percent of households lost 80 percent of their net worth. The middle fifth lost 11 percent. By 1995, 18.5 percent of households had zero or negative net worth (an average -$5,600, down from -$3,000 in 1983).

By 1995, the middle quintile of income-earners had only enough savings to maintain their current standard of living for 1.2 months (i.e., if they lost their jobs). That's down from 3.6 months in 1989.

Household debt as a percentage of personal income rose from 58 percent in 1973 to an estimated 85 percent in 1997.

In 1997, 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy. That works out to roughly 7,000 bankruptcies per hour, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Though average household income rose 10 percent between 1979 and 1994, 97 percent of that gain was claimed by the most well-to-do 20 percent.

In 1998, weekly wages were 12 percent lower than in 1973 on an inflation-adjusted basis. Productivity rose 33 percent over that perioo. Had pay kept pace with productivity, the average hourly wage would now be $18.10, rather than $12.77. That translates into a difference in annual pay of $11,000 for a full-time, year-round worker.

Between 1970 and 1990, the typical American worked an additional 163 hours per year. That's equivalent to adding an additional month of work per year - for the same or less pay.

In 1996, the Census Bureau reported record-level inequality, with the top fifth of U.S. households claiming 48.2 percent of national income while the bottom fifth gets by on 3.6 percent.

In 1973, the income of the top 20 percent of American families was 7.5 times that of the bottom 20 percent. By 1996, it was 13 times.

Business Week reports that in 1999 top executives earned 419 times the average wage of a blue-collar worker, up from 326:1 in 1998. In 1980, the ratio was 42:1.

In 1982, inclusion on the Forbes 400 list of richest Americans required personal wealth of $91million. The list then included 13 billionaires. By 1998, $500 million was required and the list included 189 billionaires. Note, however, that Forbes 1998 figures were based on a September 1, 1998 Dow-Jones Industrial Average of 7827. The Dow topped 10,000 in early 1999.

The combined net worth of the Forbes 400 was $738 billion on September 1, 1998. That's up from $624 billion in 1997. That's an average one-year increase of $285 million per person. That works out to $780,000 per day or $32,500 per hour ($541 per second).

Microsoft CEO Bill Gates has more wealth than the bottom 45 percent of American households combined.

Spending on luxury goods grew by 21 percent from 1995 to 1996 while overall merchandise sales grew only 5 percent.

This is a little bit old, but it can give you an idea... ;)

Cottontop... maybe you are going a little bit too hard on the kid....

Worlwide statistics, if you are interested....
http://www.unicefusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=duLRI8O0H&b=262152


640 million children do not have adequate shelter
500 million children have no access to sanitation
400 million children do not have access to safe water
300 million children lack access to information
270 million children have no access to health care services
140 million children have never been to school
90 million children are severely food-deprived

http://www.prb.org/

"U.S. Economic Inequality Through the Prisms of Income and Consumption (http://www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&template=/Content/ContentGroups/05_Articles/U_S__Economic_Inequality_Through_the_Prisms_of_Inc ome_and_Consumption.htm)
by Barbara Boyle Torrey

(August 2005) Between 1981 and 2001, economic inequality increased substantially in the United States. This increase is apparent regardless of which data or formulas are used to measure it—and regardless of whether the resource measured is income or consumption."

http://earthtrends.wri.org/povlinks/index.cfm

Any evidence?


http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unemployment.htm
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM610&page=teacher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment

there you go.. That should do you for startes.

You are so right, Mephura. "$500 doesn't spend the same everywhere."

Let's see, $5000.00 a year. That is $416.00 a month. Still living at home with mom and pop Mephura? They paying for your internet connection too? Or are you just mooching off them, or your mate? You, my moron, are an idiot. Anyone here can tell that you have NEVER lived in america the great on your own. You need to go crying to your mommy. Fucking idiot.


Or you can actually learn to read.
I said I have lived, and I have. Mommy and Daddy? Not quite, ass clown.
Ever heard of roomates? I guess that kind of simple thinking might be to difficult for one that can't even pick up on the tense of a sentence though. Since you missed it the first time, that sentences said "I've" as in I have, as in in the past tense, moron. Did I say I am living on 5k a year? No.. I did not.

SInce you've figured up the monthly, let me fill you in on expenditures:
200 a month for rent, another 100 for bills. That leaves how much?
$116...
I didn't drive much and the car got about 35 miles to the gallon, so you can subtract about another 30 for gas and that leaves, $84. My normal diet at that point ran up to about 12 dollars a week (yeah, i had it figured up) so there is another $48 gone now leaving us with $36.
Not a whole lot, but enough to allow for some fun.Not too fucking difficult if one tries and finds the right situation.

and, little cottontop, mommy and daddy aren't needed.
And actually, yeah, you fucking imbicile, i have lived in this country, all my life, and a large portion of that has been on my own.

Kid?
Hardly...

As for the growing distance between the rich and poor, where have i said that isn't the case?
Secondly, when did anyone here say america was the land of milk and honey?
IF you two idealist fucks want to make such a difference, why don't you sell those computers give up teh internet, and sell all the other shit you've worked hard to get and go spread the wealth.
Personally, I worked hard to dig myself out of a hole. Piss on the rest of them.
"But they're children.."
BooHoo. More children means more adults means higher unemployment and more fucking children. Let 'em die.

Just think of how good your stats would look if 640 million of them did just that tonight. Then you could pat each other on the back and smile at how your bleeding heart bullshit saved the world.

You have all those stats about increased household debt and lowered household worth and you blame it on unemployment or who is in office of this tax cut or that tax hike.
Funny, my debt has only gone down, and I started below that magical poverty level of yours. My secret? Get a job, pay your bills and don't spend money you don't have.
Real fucking simple.

http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unemployment.htm
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=EM610&page=teacher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment

there you go.. That should do you for startes.
Yeah, yeah, I knew all that. But that doesn't mean it is completely impossible to have 0% unemployment, just means that it's very hard.

In fact, even if we would get such a figure, chances are there would be people unemployed, since the statistics don't take into account people that gave up on trying to find a job....

Or you can actually learn to read.
I said I have lived, and I have. Mommy and Daddy? Not quite, ass clown.
Ever heard of roomates? I guess that kind of simple thinking might be to difficult for one that can't even pick up on the tense of a sentence though. Since you missed it the first time, that sentences said "I've" as in I have, as in in the past tense, moron. Did I say I am living on 5k a year? No.. I did not.

SInce you've figured up the monthly, let me fill you in on expenditures:
200 a month for rent, another 100 for bills. That leaves how much?
$116...
I didn't drive much and the car got about 35 miles to the gallon, so you can subtract about another 30 for gas and that leaves, $84. My normal diet at that point ran up to about 12 dollars a week (yeah, i had it figured up) so there is another $48 gone now leaving us with $36.
Not a whole lot, but enough to allow for some fun.Not too fucking difficult if one tries and finds the right situation.

and, little cottontop, mommy and daddy aren't needed.
And actually, yeah, you fucking imbicile, i have lived in this country, all my life, and a large portion of that has been on my own.
My God, man!!!! You need a better diet!!!! :eek:

Kid?
Hardly...

As for the growing distance between the rich and poor, where have i said that isn't the case?
Secondly, when did anyone here say america was the land of milk and honey?
IF you two idealist fucks want to make such a difference, why don't you sell those computers give up teh internet, and sell all the other shit you've worked hard to get and go spread the wealth.
Because we can use it to produce wealth? :rolleyes:


Personally, I worked hard to dig myself out of a hole.
You are OUT of the hole!?!?!? :eek:


Piss on the rest of them.
"But they're children.."
BooHoo. More children means more adults means higher unemployment and more fucking children. Let 'em die.
Now we know why there are so many psychopaths and inmates in america..... :rolleyes:


Just think of how good your stats would look if 640 million of them did just that tonight. Then you could pat each other on the back and smile at how your bleeding heart bullshit saved the world.
You get really mad with the truth, don't you?


You have all those stats about increased household debt and lowered household worth and you blame it on unemployment or who is in office of this tax cut or that tax hike.
Look at the figures and find correlations....
Oh...! And study economics.....


Funny, my debt has only gone down, and I started below that magical poverty level of yours. My secret? Get a job, pay your bills and don't spend money you don't have.
Real fucking simple.
Wow... you have a life, eh?

What is your marginal propensity to save? Are you accumulating any wealth at all? Where do you work? Burger King?

Or you can actually learn to read.
I said I have lived, and I have. Mommy and Daddy? Not quite, ass clown.I doubt your honesty.


Ever heard of roomates? I guess that kind of simple thinking might be to difficult for one that can't even pick up on the tense of a sentence though. Since you missed it the first time, that sentences said "I've" as in I have, as in in the past tense, moron. Did I say I am living on 5k a year? No.. I did not.
Yes, I can read, idiot. You also did not specify, idiot, just what your current moronic situation was, so I chose a particular notion that suited my purposes. Got a problem with that, idiot?


SInce you've figured up the monthly, let me fill you in on expenditures:
200 a month for rent, another 100 for bills. That leaves how much?
$116...
I didn't drive much and the car got about 35 miles to the gallon, so you can subtract about another 30 for gas and that leaves, $84. My normal diet at that point ran up to about 12 dollars a week (yeah, i had it figured up) so there is another $48 gone now leaving us with $36.
Not a whole lot, but enough to allow for some fun.Not too fucking difficult if one tries and finds the right situation.
You have to find the right situation, though, don't you, idiot? You sound like a mooch, to me. What did you eat on $48.00 a month? Dog food? What year was this? 1957?


and, little cottontop, mommy and daddy aren't needed.Sure.

And actually, yeah, you fucking imbicile, i have lived in this country, all my life, and a large portion of that has been on my own.What are you, a street-dweller? Hippie? Punk-ass bitch? Go back into hiding, you fucking moron. By the way, imbecile is spelled in this fashion.

What did you eat on $48.00 a month? Dog food? What year was this? 1957?

Hmm, I eat for less than $2 a day right now ...and have good, nutritious meals at every meal ...and that's NOT dog food. It also includes meat, fish or poultry. What's the big deal?

If you sit down and figure it out, meals aren't so expense to make. They ARE, however, pretty expensive to buy!

Baron Max

So, Mephura figures the rate isn't accurate, since people can survive on less, and some of that figure is people deliberately living off welfare.

Well, that's irrelevant, since the important thing to note is that whatever means were used to derive this figure, it is the absolute increase that is the notable thing!

This means that under George W. Bush, the number of poor people has increased.

Even if you consider some of these to be more well-off than poor, they are still marginal, and that number is increasing.

So, the federal deficit shrinking slightly has not helped anyone. It's probably just some fancy juggling of figures, like Reagan did.

So, the federal deficit shrinking slightly has not helped anyone. It's probably just some fancy juggling of figures, like Reagan did.
We already proved that in the first page....

Because we can use it to produce wealth? :rolleyes:
Wealth that I am sure you are going to distribute to all those needy in the world, right?


You are OUT of the hole!?!?!? :eek:
Yeah, I am.. What would ever give you the idea I wasn't?
Or are you suffering from the same problems as cottontop?


Now we know why there are so many psychopaths and inmates in america..... :rolleyes:

Actually, probably. For some reason I just don't see households that can't afford to eat as being peaceful and constructive to positive development.
If they are, and setting makes no difference in the end result, then why is there so much talk about puttin gmore money into education?
I suppose that a majority of criminals that are killing people for their wallets are the ones that come from weathy families, right?


You get really mad with the truth, don't you?

And what truth would that be? You haven't directed much of any worth at me...


Look at the figures and find correlations....
Oh...! And study economics.....

Have studied economics. I could tell you the same thing. Just because your corrrelations don't match mine, I'm wrong, eh?
Sorry.. I don't see things that way. I've ad to work for what I have and I have no respect for those that live off the system. There are some out there that cannot change their situation, and yes, aid should be provided for them. We should not be supporting women that have another kid just to get a bigger welfare check though.


Wow... you have a life, eh?

Sorry if my priorities aren't having fun at the expense of my responsibilities..
I have enough fun when work is done. And despite what you might think, its very possible to have fun with out spending alot of money.

What is your marginal propensity to save? Are you accumulating any wealth at all? Where do you work? Burger King?

I manage to save about 1k a month these days.
I work for bornell supply co.
We're a power transmission distribution company.

I doubt your honesty.
That's alright. I doubt your intelligence.


Yes, I can read, idiot. You also did not specify, idiot, just what your current moronic situation was, so I chose a particular notion that suited my purposes. Got a problem with that, idiot?

SO the guy that doesn't understand simple verb tense is calling me an idiot?
The guy that, for lack of information, makes up a convienent story and then proceeds to believe it without bothering to get his facts straight is calling me an idiot?

Interesting...
A problem?
None at all. Apparently picking spin on things 'suites your purposes' is a fairly common tactic in this thread.

If that is the way we are doing things here, I feel I must stop conversing with you. If you don't have a firm enough grasp of the english language to understand tenses, than it would be a waste of my time and it would only serve to confuse you more.


You have to find the right situation, though, don't you, idiot? You sound like a mooch, to me. What did you eat on $48.00 a month? Dog food? What year was this? 1957?

Rice, potatoes, hamburger, cheese, balogna, bagels, bread, pizza, burritos, canned soups and veggies, and roman noddles. The occasional jr bacon from wendy's.



What are you, a street-dweller? Hippie? Punk-ass bitch? Go back into hiding, you fucking moron. By the way, imbecile is spelled in this fashion.

Spellen allwaze wuz wun ov mie week poyntz.
Hippy? kinda stupid to be asking that, aren't you?
Street sweller? I have been.
Punk-ass bitch? right now, you would be the best example of that in this thread.
Go back into hiding? when was I in hiding?

So, Mephura figures the rate isn't accurate, since people can survive on less, and some of that figure is people deliberately living off welfare.

Well, that's irrelevant, since the important thing to note is that whatever means were used to derive this figure, it is the absolute increase that is the notable thing!

You realize that the rise could just as easily be attributed to an increase in students that don't work?A buddy of mine payed all is bills one summer by playing deablo and selling items on Ebay, but i doubt the US gov is going to count "sitting on your ass and playing video games" as employment.


This means that under George W. Bush, the number of poor people has increased.

Even if you consider some of these to be more well-off than poor, they are still marginal, and that number is increasing.

How about this: I'll agree that the number has gone up if you can show and prove a direct cause and effect relationship between anything he has done and this increase.


So, the federal deficit shrinking slightly has not helped anyone. It's probably just some fancy juggling of figures, like Reagan did.

Regan did fancy number juggling?
I wouldn't have thought it possible.

Wealth that I am sure you are going to distribute to all those needy in the world, right?
Yeah.


Yeah, I am.. What would ever give you the idea I wasn't?
You seem to spend too little in basic important things, such as food. What about the place that you live in? Is it healthy and safe? What about your quality of life? Or how many hours you work?


Or are you suffering from the same problems as cottontop?
Ah?


Actually, probably. For some reason I just don't see households that can't afford to eat as being peaceful and constructive to positive development.
Well, of course.


If they are, and setting makes no difference in the end result, then why is there so much talk about puttin gmore money into education?
Well, education is important...
But to solve social problems and decrease violence, it's often a good idea to invest in free psychologists....


I suppose that a majority of criminals that are killing people for their wallets are the ones that come from weathy families, right?
Well, not a majority.


And what truth would that be? You haven't directed much of any worth at me...
Err... I don't remember now....


Sorry if my priorities aren't having fun at the expense of my responsibilities..
Well, that's not what I said.


And despite what you might think, its very possible to have fun with out spending alot of money.
yeah, I know

I manage to save about 1k a month these days.
I work for bornell supply co.
We're a power transmission distribution company.
Well, you should probably eat healthier then. It's worth the money...

Yeah.

At the expence of the bride and child?
Which come first, TS? you and yours or everyone else?


You seem to spend too little in basic important things, such as food. What about the place that you live in? Is it healthy and safe? What about your quality of life? Or how many hours you work?

Food? Three meals a day. I've actually been cutting down on what I eat lately and changing my meal plan to cut down on fats, calories and sugars.
If fruit, veggies, bread and meat isn't healthy enough, what is?
My home is nice. Not the best neighborhood, but not the slums either. Quality of life?
Cable net access, cable tv, running water, electricity, central air and a working vehichle. what more do I need.
Work? 40 hours, not counting what I put in extra to make sure things are done right. I don't get paid for that though. It's me volunteering my time for the customers.


Ah?
Thinking that when I said "I've lived" implied that I still do.



Well, education is important...
But to solve social problems and decrease violence, it's often a good idea to invest in free psychologists....

I think there would be more important things to invest in. All in all, this country is fucked regardless of who is president at the time, and no amount of budget balancing is going to fix that. What is needed is a president who is willing to force things through and bend the rules for the good of the country and not the good of private interests and party politics, but that isn't goign to happen anytime in the near future. Rep? Dem? It doesn't matter. It's all about politics, not people.



Well, that's not what I said.
&
yeah, I know

So the snide comment "wow... you have a life, eh?" was about what exactly?

At the expence of the bride and child?
Which come first, TS? you and yours or everyone else?
Well, of course not.

But it's not like we won't have enough money. Specially when she becomes an actress in Hollywood. :cool:


Food? Three meals a day. I've actually been cutting down on what I eat lately and changing my meal plan to cut down on fats, calories and sugars.
If fruit, veggies, bread and meat isn't healthy enough, what is?
My home is nice. Not the best neighborhood, but not the slums either. Quality of life?
Cable net access, cable tv, running water, electricity, central air and a working vehichle. what more do I need.
Work? 40 hours, not counting what I put in extra to make sure things are done right. I don't get paid for that though. It's me volunteering my time for the customers.
Well, sorry, I can't just believe those numbers with those things. :bugeye:


I think there would be more important things to invest in.
No there wouldn't. People are violent because they had fucked up childhoods.


All in all, this country is fucked regardless of who is president at the time, and no amount of budget balancing is going to fix that. What is needed is a president who is willing to force things through and bend the rules for the good of the country and not the good of private interests and party politics, but that isn't goign to happen anytime in the near future. Rep? Dem? It doesn't matter. It's all about politics, not people.
Yeah.... besides bending the rules...


So the snide comment "wow... you have a life, eh?" was about what exactly?
Well, I assumed you work your ass off all the time and you have no fun.
But again, I still don't believe you.

So, the federal deficit shrinking slightly has not helped anyone. It's probably just some fancy juggling of figures, like Reagan did.
The federal deficit is only shrinking from the astronomical figures that bush ran it up to in his first 5 years in office. War in Iraq, my ass. Once you run the deficits to sky-high margins, it is easy cut back a little and "say" that the deficit is shrinking. Remember what Clinton did? He actually balanced his budgets, unlike what bushy bush has ever done. Iraqi war, again, my ass.

Mephura,

And despite what you might think, its very possible to have fun with out spending alot of money.Give us a few examples. Please.


For some reason I just don't see households that can't afford to eat as being peaceful and constructive to positive development.First, why do you think this is? Here in america the great? Second, what are your solutions?


I suppose that a majority of criminals that are killing people for their wallets are the ones that come from weathy families, right?What is your point?


Have studied economics. I could tell you the same thing. Just because your corrrelations don't match mine, I'm wrong, eh?One of you is wrong. Numbers don't lie. Only the wrong numbers, and the wrong people. How can I tell you which numbers are wrong and which are right? I can't. That's the beauty of the american political environment. Everyone seems to be lying, for all I can tell. So, there is no objective truth. Only those that we think are more objective than others. Bunch of cock-sucking, pig-faced liars. Tell me I am wrong.


I've ad to work for what I have and I have no respect for those that live off the system.Good for you. I respect you so much.


There are some out there that cannot change their situation, and yes, aid should be provided for them. We should not be supporting women that have another kid just to get a bigger welfare check though.
Really? You want to be the arbiter of starving children now?


I manage to save about 1k a month these days.
I work for bornell supply co.
We're a power transmission distribution company.I too once saved 1K a month, or more. I was 26, 27, 28. I was an officer in the u.s. army. Now, I've had to spend that savings, at substantial penalties, because of a disability called major depression. I hope you don't have to do the same, or similar, someday.


That's alright. I doubt your intelligence.Why is that? Because I get angry? Because I am pissed off at humanity in general, and you in specific? Is this the best your dumb-ass can do?


SO the guy that doesn't understand simple verb tense is calling me an idiot?The guy that, for lack of information, makes up a convienent story and then proceeds to believe it without bothering to get his facts straight is calling me an idiot?Let me see. Where to start? How about this? I understood your tense. I saw no explanation of your current situation. I chose to think this was still correct, which I still think. You say you now save about 1K a month, so I will believe you. For now. When did you live on $500 a month? 1957? How long did it take you, working at the bornell supply company (a power transmission distribution company, no less), to get to a point where you could save a whole K a month? You could be making as little as 3K a month, though I doubt it's that low. It must have been a long time ago when you were living on only $500/month. 1957?


If that is the way we are doing things here, I feel I must stop conversing with you.Feel free. Like I said, go back into hiding.


If you don't have a firm enough grasp of the english language to understand tenses, than it would be a waste of my time and it would only serve to confuse you more.All this shit over a little lack of information given, on your part.


Rice, potatoes, hamburger, cheese, balogna, bagels, bread, pizza, burritos, canned soups and veggies, and roman noddles. The occasional jr bacon from wendy's.Know what that costs in non-1957 dollars? In other words, today's dollars? Let's see, as I buy most of that today.

For one adult male:

Cheap rice: $10.00 (month).
Potatoes: $10.00 (month)
Hamburger: $40.00 (month) (cheapest, ie highest fat content)
Cheese: $10.00 (enough for potatoes and bologna sandwiches for one month)
Bologna: $6.00 (month)
Bagels: $15.00 (let's say 30 a month at $.50 each. What no cream cheese, butter or locks? I don't see any other breakfast food listed, unless you count rice, with sugar and butter.)
Bread: $5.00 (two loaves only. If you buy "healthy bread," this could be much more)
Pizza: $10.00 (4 cheap ones from the grocery store or one from Pizza Hut, if you are lucky)
Burritos: $4.00 (8 of the cheapest at $.50 each.)
Canned soups: $10.00 ($1.00 each, of the cheapest. So you buy 10, in this scenario)
Veggies: $10.00 ($.69 to $1.19 each, of the cheapest. Let's say you buy 12)
Rammen Noodles: $2.00 (at 5 for a dollar)

Now. For the rice. You eat it plain? No butter? Salt? Pepper? Sugar? Fresh veggies (not canned)?
For the potatoes. No butter? Sour cream? Bacon Bits? Chives? Ranch dressing?
Hamburger? No buns? Mayo? Mustard? Lettuce? Tomato? Onions? Hamburger Helper of some kind? Barbecue sauce?
For the soups, no crackers?
Without any of the above items as condiments, you are talking about $122.00, just for the basics. And the amounts of each that I listed above are very conservative amounts. I'm not sure that an adult male could live on what I listed above.


Regan did fancy number juggling?
I wouldn't have thought it possible.All politicians do, lately, it seems.

...I've had to spend that savings, at substantial penalties, because of a disability called major depression.

Depression is considered a disability in this country? Is this a new thing?

What did people do in 1957 when they were "depressed"? Or for that matter, in the 1920s?


I'm not sure that an adult male could live on what I listed above.

Of the items listed, I could eat like a freakin' king! ...and probably get fat as a damned king, too! I eat for LESS than $2 per day ...and eat well and nutrituous meals.

Baron Max

Well, of course not.

But it's not like we won't have enough money. Specially when she becomes an actress in Hollywood. :cool:

I'm not trying to piss on your dreams here, but what makes you think that she will make it out of all the thousands of others that have that very same dream everyday?



Well, sorry, I can't just believe those numbers with those things. :bugeye:

What numbers?
I've never giving numbers as to what I am making now.



No there wouldn't. People are violent because they had fucked up childhoods.

So treat the violent people instead of stop fucked up childhoods?
The idea situation in this case would be one that puts its self out of a need for existance.


Yeah.... besides bending the rules...

Loosk at Teddy Roosevelt. Half the things he did were blatantly illegal, or at the very least highly questionable.. What did we get? The panama canal, public parks, better labor relations and anti-trust laws..
FDR: Tons of public work programs and labor reforms, not to mention FDIC and other enconomic programs to help bring us out of the depression and stabalize the economy.
Both of these men definitely bent the rules to say the least. FDR admitted to it openly.


Well, I assumed you work your ass off all the time and you have no fun.
But again, I still don't believe you.

40-50 hours a week. Leaves plenty of time for fun. I actually wish I could work more, but 10hours is all I am willing to donate to a company that doesn't pay overtime.

Mephura,
Give us a few examples. Please.

Reading a good book, of which I've collected many of over the years. Enough that I haven't gotten through half of them.
Hiking in the woods, or swimming: enjoying a nice day at the beach.
Sitting around with friends and playing video games or watching movies.
Boardgames, sports.. playing cards with friends and family.
Sure, there are alot of things that require money, but there are plenty that don't. An argument could be made that These things require money in the form of gas to get there or food to eat while doing so, but I'm going to be eating something that day regardless, and gas will be used one way or the other. The same argument could be made to say it takes money to sleep. After all, the bed cost something, so does the appartment the bed is in, but I'm not paying to sleep.


First, why do you think this is? Here in america the great? Second, what are your solutions?

Why do I think they aren't peaceful and constructive to positive development?
Because existance in such a house hold would be failry stressful. I believe that the right people in such a situation could deal with the situation and make it less so, but I would fear that isn't the case for most. Stress, in many people, is either taken out on others or, at the very least, affects that persons mood so that the person in question isn't helping to raise the mood and over all level of positivity in such an environment. Two parents in such a situation would most likely fight more than they would otherwise, and not be as caring with their child(ren).

My solutions? The biggest one would be don't get in those situations in the first place. We create our own lives. Don't have children before you are financially capable of raising them.
Secondly, plan for the future, at least a bit. Savemoney, don't get into debt more than is necessary, and take care of what you have.
Learn to be more self sufficient. Learn how to do basic auto maintenance and house hold repair, so as to cut down dependance on others, and large bills when things go wrong.
Don't play the victim. Realise that there are many places out there where things can be gotten cheaply, and that there are many jobs available if you are willing to swallow your pride. Fastfood may not be glamourous, but it is a paycheck. Aldi's, Save-a-lot, goodwill, and the salvation army stores are your best friends.


What is your point?

My point was that by supporting people that would abuse the system instead of using it only when it is necessary, we are being self defeating. Con I prove that poverty leads to violent crime? No. Is it my belief? In many cases, yes. Perhaps not directly, but poverty can be the underlying cause for many of the factors that lead to that path.
If we continue to support people that would only burden the system further, especially with no form of birthcontrol being mandatory, that will only lead to an increase in the population dependant on those systems and thus, more violent crimes.


One of you is wrong. Numbers don't lie. Only the wrong numbers, and the wrong people. How can I tell you which numbers are wrong and which are right? I can't. That's the beauty of the american political environment. Everyone seems to be lying, for all I can tell. So, there is no objective truth. Only those that we think are more objective than others. Bunch of cock-sucking, pig-faced liars. Tell me I am wrong.

Not wrong at all. Numbers don't lie, but statistics can be made to "prove" anything. My main beef in this thread is not with the message, but with using statistics as evidence. Depending on how the number is arrived at, you can make that number say damn near anything. That is why you can have two parties claiming the exact opposite of each other, both with statistics to back thier points. The numbers aren't lying in either case. The system is fucked.


Good for you. I respect you so much.

The feeling is mutual.


Really? You want to be the arbiter of starving children now?
I too once saved 1K a month, or more. I was 26, 27, 28. I was an officer in the u.s. army. Now, I've had to spend that savings, at substantial penalties, because of a disability called major depression. I hope you don't have to do the same, or similar, someday.

I've had similar. Not depression, mind you. What they call emotional stress disorder. I was BAS from the Airforce because of it. The worst part about those kinds of disabilities is the feeling of helplessness, but I'm sure you already know what I am talking about. No one wants to be that way, but we have to find someway of dealing with it so that we can maintain a "normal" life. What works best for me is alot of forethought and caution. I avoid situations that would cause me that kind of stress. I work through the issues that I do have as soon as I can identify them, but sometimes it still catches up with me. Mine is less depression and more alot of irrational fears which just compound and spiral out of control. Paranoia sets in, and in the end, I'm left in one hell of a state.

As far as being the arbiter of starving children: Someone will have to eventually, if nothing is done to halt the problem. Life is hard, and making the best of it sometimes requires sacrifices. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news. (ok some people might get a kick out of it, but you know what I am saying..) The point was that these children didn't magically appear. We know what causes children. We have ways of avoiding that. Wouldn't mandatory birth control be cheaper than supporting a person, or two or three?
The truth of the matter is that human life isn't something we want to treat as meaningless, but by allowing children to come into the world when we know they will not be cared for in an appropriate manner, we have done just that. What is worse, allowing someone to die slowly over years, letting there hopes and dreams get crushed, and breaking the hearts of those around them everyday, or ending it quickly with some dignity? Hell, we allow dogs that curtesy, yet we won't give it to even the terminally ill?
The system is overburdened. Fixing it isn't going to happen anytime soon. There are just too many egos in the way of that. The number of dying will only increase if we continue to handle the problem the same way we've been doing so. I've always been one for decisive action. If I'm required to fill such a position, so be it.


Why is that? Because I get angry? Because I am pissed off at humanity in general, and you in specific? Is this the best your dumb-ass can do?

Actually, because you would rather run off at the mouth with made up conclusions instead of bothering ot look for what is there.


Let me see. Where to start? How about this? I understood your tense. I saw no explanation of your current situation. I chose to think this was still correct, which I still think. You say you now save about 1K a month, so I will believe you. For now. When did you live on $500 a month? 1957?

I lived on that much about 4 years ago.
An explanation of my current situation wasn't asked for.


How long did it take you, working at the bornell supply company (a power transmission distribution company, no less), to get to a point where you could save a whole K a month? You could be making as little as 3K a month, though I doubt it's that low. It must have been a long time ago when you were living on only $500/month. 1957?

Not very long at all. I've been here for 2 years. I've continued to keep my expenses low. I make 13.50 and hour now. After taxes, that is about $1500 a month. Rent (shared appartment) is 550 a month, so my half is 275. That leaves 237 for electric, gassoline, food and entertainment. (water is included with the rent) my share of the cable is 40, electric, about 20-25, and food is about 60 for the month. leave a little over 100 for gass and other things. My insurance comes to about 200 for 6 months, so it's pretty easy to save that up.


Feel free. Like I said, go back into hiding.

You never have explained this whole hiding thing. I didn't realize I was in hiding. For now, you've raised yourself above the petty insult for the most part, so...


All this shit over a little lack of information given, on your part.

Or, over you chosing to make assumptions with out getting your facts straight.


Know what that costs in non-1957 dollars? In other words, today's dollars? Let's see, as I buy most of that today.

For one adult male:

Cheap rice: $10.00 (month).
Potatoes: $10.00 (month)
Hamburger: $40.00 (month) (cheapest, ie highest fat content)
Cheese: $10.00 (enough for potatoes and bologna sandwiches for one month)
Bologna: $6.00 (month)
Bagels: $15.00 (let's say 30 a month at $.50 each. What no cream cheese, butter or locks? I don't see any other breakfast food listed, unless you count rice, with sugar and butter.)
Bread: $5.00 (two loaves only. If you buy "healthy bread," this could be much more)
Pizza: $10.00 (4 cheap ones from the grocery store or one from Pizza Hut, if you are lucky)
Burritos: $4.00 (8 of the cheapest at $.50 each.)
Canned soups: $10.00 ($1.00 each, of the cheapest. So you buy 10, in this scenario)
Veggies: $10.00 ($.69 to $1.19 each, of the cheapest. Let's say you buy 12)
Rammen Noodles: $2.00 (at 5 for a dollar)

Where do you shop? Try Aldi's or save alot.
1lb of balogna=$1
per month=4
The rice is probably about accurate
Potatoes: 10lb bag for about 5 bucks.
I might go through 20lbs in a month, but that would be doubtful.
hambuger: 3lbs for 5 bucks. that is about all i would need for a week, so about 20 for the month.
bagels: 6pack for $1-$1.50 That's good for a week, so $4-6 for the month.
Cheese: 16 slice pack for about 1-2 dollars. Is it real cheese? not fucking likely. Good enough? yup. So a max of 6 per month there.
Bread: three loaves for $1. Common enough to find that at a hostess/wonderbread outlet or at aldi's. I'll generally buy 6 and freeze the 5 to use as needed. $2 for the month and then some.
Pizza: 1.50 for the getto ones. (get a bag of shredded cheese for them $2)
4 would put you at 6 pluss the cheese brings us to 8.
the burritos I can normally find at three for a dollar. or a ten pack for $3 which is the way to go. $9 for the month, 30 burritos.
soup is about 59 cents a can same for veggies. so at your senario, that would be 5.90.
I'lll give you the veggies just to compensate for any descrepancies, so $10.
Noddles I'll give you too.

Your total=$132
My total=$82.90 That being the maximums I used up there which is more than I would actually eat in a month. I do the shopping, and since there are two of us, I load up on teh staples (potatoes, bread, hamburger, cheese and balogna), buying twice what I would for myself alone, maybe a bit less.
It leaves about $20 to 30 left for condaments, which won't be used in a month (main ones being hot sauce and ketchup and butter)
Use the rest for "luxery foods" or to build up a stock of canned goods and cooking items such as flour and sugar. Also, pancake mix can be gotten really cheap as well. (the hot sauce can be gotten for $1 a bottle and a thing of ketschup for about 2.)
Frozen chicken breasts are also something to stock up on.


Now. For the rice. You eat it plain? No butter? Salt? Pepper? Sugar?

On rice?? normally, it would be rice, the chicken, and some hot sauce. I might throw something else in there depending on what is available., such as potatoes, onions (3lb bag for 2.50), carrots... etc. If I get eggs, I can do fried rice using frozen mixed veggies. No biggie.


Fresh veggies (not canned)?
For the potatoes. No butter? Sour cream? Bacon Bits? Chives? Ranch dressing?

Butter, maybe sourcream (luxery food). No bacon, chives or ranch. Salt and pepper, along with other spices can be gotten real cheap from dollar store and the like.


Hamburger? No buns? Mayo? Mustard? Lettuce? Tomato? Onions? Hamburger Helper of some kind? Barbecue sauce?

Cheese hot sauce and onion. Buns can be gotten for the same price as the bread. (3 packs of 8 for $1. Again, stock up)


For the soups, no crackers?

No, no crackers. soup.


Without any of the above items as condiments, you are talking about $122.00, just for the basics. And the amounts of each that I listed above are very conservative amounts. I'm not sure that an adult male could live on what I listed above.

132. your math was off.
As for if one can, yes. My estimate came up to 82.90 and I wouldn't eat all of that in one month. Then again, I really don't eat much. A bagel, plain, for breakfast. I might get a jr bacon from wendy's for lunch ($1) and then have a small dinner. Drink alot of water too. It keeps hunger down.
On top of that, alot of what I listed would actually be left over for over a month. Butter would be bought about ever 6-8 weeks. Salt, pepper and spice have a much longer time in between needing to be repurchased. Bread gets frozen and stocked up, as do soup and and canned veggies. I might go through 3 lbs of hambuger a week, but that is doubtful. closer to say 3 lbs every two. After the first two months, you start having a stock of things you don't need to purchase and can sub in other items like chicken breast and frozen veggies. The meals aren't large, but then again, they don't have to be.
Remember your time in basic? Think of those meals. Not big, then again you didn't have time to eat a large meal, and the food wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. That is how I live. Food is to eat. It's required. I don't eat to spend alot of money or too impress people. I eat what I need to and little else, and I do it as cheaply as possible. But, as far as the stock pile of items in my freezer and cupboards go, the larger that gets, the more I can splurge on items such as a occasional steak or some take out, and still remain in my budget.


All politicians do, lately, it seems.

It was more to the point of saying I doubt regan would have been capable of doing fancy number juggling.

Baron,


Depression is considered a disability in this country? Is this a new thing?I don't know how "new" it is, but it IS considered a disability. For good reason.


What did people do in 1957 when they were "depressed"? Or for that matter, in the 1920s?Kill their kids? Their wives or husbands? Local imbeciles at the rail-head? Themselves? I suppose, now, you are going to say that any of these options are okay. Do you know what many vets of foreign wars are considered nowadays? Depressed. Of course, you are probably like bush. Too much of a wimp to join in a foreign war.


Of the items listed, I could eat like a freakin' king! ...and probably get fat as a damned king, too! I eat for LESS than $2 per day ...and eat well and nutrituous meals.
Give us a list of what you eat, daily, for less than $2. Rattlesnake? Or Rammen noodles? (which, btw, turn your muscles into mush, or bone, I forget which.)

Mephura,


Reading a good book, of which I've collected many of over the years.Library, usually free. I do a lot of this. Collecting? Where in my budget did you see money for buying books? Other than minus the cigs and cola. You don't drink cola? If not, good. Do you smoke? You haven't said. I don't have a used book store in town, here. The closest is 35 miles away. I don't have the money to buy the gas (even before it went up 20% in the last two days), to get to that used book store. In town, here, at Wal-Mart, the ONLY book store in town, most books cost at least $5-7 each. For the cheapest.
Hiking in the woods, or swimming: enjoying a nice day at the beach.No woods or rivers or lakes or beaches anywhere near Brownfield Texas. There is a swimming pool, however. Probably around $5 to get in. Wouldn't know. Never had the money to even think about going.

Sitting around with friends and playing video games or watching movies.Know how much a "video game" costs? $15-50. Not to mention at least $150 to get the gaming console.

Boardgames, sports.. playing cards with friends and family.Get's old after a short time. What kind of cards? Poker? Rummy? Spades?
Sure, there are alot of things that require money, but there are plenty that don't.You've named one so far. Books. Maybe two. The cards.
An argument could be made that These things require money in the form of gas to get there or food to eat while doing so, but I'm going to be eating something that day regardless, and gas will be used one way or the other. Gas will not be used one way or the other, necessarily. Guess how long 17 gallons of gas lasts me. I'll tell you. About 2 months. Because I have to make it last that long.
The same argument could be made to say it takes money to sleep. After all, the bed cost something, so does the appartment the bed is in, but I'm not paying to sleep.What, are you not sleeping? Everything costs something in today's world. Nothing is free. And if you have little, like 13.1%, or more, of america, everything costs a shit load.

As for the rest of your statement, I'll agree with most of it. I'm too tired to rebut anything tonight. Most of what you said, I agree with. As far as the food for the month, you are right, my math was off. It should have been $132 for the month. Nonetheless, I have one grocery store in my town, or within a 35-mile radius for that matter. United. I hate them. Their prices are outrageous. They know they have some of us over a barrel. They do. They get away with it too. No salvation army here, no goodwill, no thrift stores (other than a dollar general). There is one grocery store. One wal-mart. Two hardware stores. No wendy's. No taco bell/bueno. No whataburger. One mc'donalds. One kfc. One dairy queen. One sonic. Two steak houses that I can't afford to go to. If I go to one of the above fast-food places, I spend a max of $2 off the dollar menu.

Anyone can make excuses for their plight, but how many are willing to do something to try to fix it? Or are they just content to wallow in their own misery?

How do you think this great nation was settled? ...by people who whined and cried and did nothing? ...by people who waited for someone else to fix their problems? No! It was by people who worked to better themselves and their family.

Why can't people do that anymore? Why can't people help themselves instead of whinning and moaning and waitiing for someone else to fix things? Are we really that lost and worthless?

Baron Max

I'm not trying to piss on your dreams here, but what makes you think that she will make it out of all the thousands of others that have that very same dream everyday?
I have an eye to spot this kind of thing. She is not the regular person. She has that natural magnetic nature of a hollywood actress. She is not regular lookind either. She is a blend of many different genetic pools, which gives her an unique look. Just that is enough to attract the right people.


What numbers?
I've never giving numbers as to what I am making now.
You gave numbers. Like $200 for rent...


So treat the violent people instead of stop fucked up childhoods?
I didn't say that. You gotta do both.


The idea[l] situation in this case would be one that puts its self out of a need for existance.
???


Loosk at Teddy Roosevelt. Half the things he did were blatantly illegal, or at the very least highly questionable.. What did we get? The panama canal, public parks, better labor relations and anti-trust laws..
FDR: Tons of public work programs and labor reforms, not to mention FDIC and other enconomic programs to help bring us out of the depression and stabalize the economy.
Both of these men definitely bent the rules to say the least. FDR admitted to it openly.
The end does not justify the means (unless it doesn't hurt anyone, then that might be done)...


40-50 hours a week. Leaves plenty of time for fun. I actually wish I could work more, but 10hours is all I am willing to donate to a company that doesn't pay overtime.
What is your position in the company?

Depression is considered a disability in this country?
Yeah.

Is this a new thing?
No.

What did people do in 1957 when they were "depressed"?
Well, they lived with it miserably, like Abraham Lincoln,
or killed themselves,
or drank heavily (people used to drink and smoke much more),
or take an over the counter opium tincture.


Anyone can make excuses for their plight, but how many are willing to do something to try to fix it? Or are they just content to wallow in their own misery?

How do you think this great nation was settled? ...by people who whined and cried and did nothing? ...by people who waited for someone else to fix their problems? No! It was by people who worked to better themselves and their family.

Why can't people do that anymore? Why can't people help themselves instead of whinning and moaning and waitiing for someone else to fix things? Are we really that lost and worthless?

Baron Max
Because the very society that we built has crippled us. We can no longer claim hundreds of acres in the wilderness and become cattle barons, we don't even have room to grow our own vegetables. We depend on local governments for clean water and a good economy. Used to be all you needed was some farm animals and seeds, maybe an axe, but the vast resources our forefathers enjoyed are just gone, and this is impossible. We expect the government to come and fix things because it demands money from us, it demands certain behavior outlined by laws, and prohibits other behavior. This nation was settled by people that worked hard, but they also took alot from others they considered less than human, and they did it WITH the help of the federal government. How long do you think settlers in the west would last if the cavalry couldn't come to rescue them from indians?

You know the phrase "poor house"? ...they really did have poor houses, a primitive version of welfare.

Mostly the miseries of the recent past are whitewashed over. There were also miserable sods like us, with the same problems, and nowhere to go, and no one to help them, and God help you if you were old, or an orphan. Someone along the way decided that instead of dependence on unreliable charities, we should have a formal program of social welfare to help people like the victims of the dust bowl, or floods.

Anyone can make excuses for their plight, but how many are willing to do something to try to fix it? Or are they just content to wallow in their own misery?

How do you think this great nation was settled? ...by people who whined and cried and did nothing? ...by people who waited for someone else to fix their problems? No! It was by people who worked to better themselves and their family.

Why can't people do that anymore? Why can't people help themselves instead of whinning and moaning and waitiing for someone else to fix things? Are we really that lost and worthless?

Baron Max

hahaha.,you think depression is a choice?!?how exactly would you go about fixing your own depression?are you claiming that no one got clinically depressed in the good ol' days?that they just picked themselves up and carried on working?my grandad suffered from depression and killed himself.you live in a fairly weird and sheltered world.

Because the very society that we built has crippled us. We can no longer claim hundreds of acres in the wilderness and become cattle barons, we don't even have room to grow our own vegetables. We depend on local governments for clean water and a good economy. Used to be all you needed was some farm animals and seeds, maybe an axe, but the vast resources our forefathers enjoyed are just gone, and this is impossible. We expect the government to come and fix things because it demands money from us, it demands certain behavior outlined by laws, and prohibits other behavior. This nation was settled by people that worked hard, but they also took alot from others they considered less than human, and they did it WITH the help of the federal government. How long do you think settlers in the west would last if the cavalry couldn't come to rescue them from indians? - spidergoat

Excellent post spidergoat. Imagine in another 300 years, what will happen to the laws. This society would not be sustainable due to the amount of laws that would restrict you from even breathing your neighbor's air. Welcome to paradise. But it will not go that far. Nature has a tendency to balance out the order.

locked

Well said.

I'm short, and I'm 40 pounds below my minimum healthy weight :eek:
That's what happens when the government doesn't even allow you to work.

Oh well. I guess I'm expected to have a party and get drunk.

Yaba Daba :m:

LOL. I love it. We reduced the deficit! (we charged slightly less on the credit card than we said we were going to). As of yesterday, the US debt is almost 8 TRILLION dollars (and rising fast!). Un-fucking-real.

National Debt

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif

Oh, does that new, bright red figure include the $62 billion that's now designated for the New Orleans restoration efforts??? I mean, with almost 8 trillion, what's a few more billion, more or less?

If ya' don't want more debt, perhaps we should petition the government to take back the $62 billion for NO relief, huh?

Baron Max

Debt is definitely good. When we go bankrupt, we can wipe out the debt over night.

Oh, does that new, bright red figure include the $62 billion that's now designated for the New Orleans restoration efforts??? I mean, with almost 8 trillion, what's a few more billion, more or less?

If ya' don't want more debt, perhaps we should petition the government to take back the $62 billion for NO relief, huh?

Baron Max

What's another drop in the bucket eh?

Oh, does that new, bright red figure include the $62 billion that's now designated for the New Orleans restoration efforts??? I mean, with almost 8 trillion, what's a few more billion, more or less?

If ya' don't want more debt, perhaps we should petition the government to take back the $62 billion for NO relief, huh?

Baron Max
Oh! And that's not even the best! There is a few people that will gain A LOT of money from this! Take a look at the "Katrina" thread...

You see... $62 billion are added to the national deficit, which the people have to pay with their work. Someone or a few people are getting $62 billion. Who are they? Bush's friends? :rolleyes:

Hey, remember this thread:http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=729776#post729776

Oh, does that new, bright red figure include the $62 billion that's now designated for the New Orleans restoration efforts??? I mean, with almost 8 trillion, what's a few more billion, more or less?

If ya' don't want more debt, perhaps we should petition the government to take back the $62 billion for NO relief, huh?

Baron Max


What the fuck are you saying barren?! How would you handle the debt this nation, under bush, is running up?! You are a moron.

What the fuck are you saying barren?! How would you handle the debt this nation, ...

I'd eliminate any and all welfare expenditures immediately! If the people couldn't survive, fuck 'em.
I'd eliminate FEMA and Homeland Security and any other government "service" that wasn't absolutely necessary. If terrorists wanted to come into a city and blow it up, fuck it ...let the city handle it.
I'd eliminate any expenditures to cities or states and if they couldn't survive, fuck 'em.
I'd build up the military and start conquering nations all over the world. If they tried to fight and kill my men, I'd nuke 'em until everything was totally destroyed ....right down to grass!!

I'd do a few other things, too, but I can't think of 'em all right now.

Baron Max

Just out of curiosity, are are any of the suggestions sane?

Charon, no, they're not sane to people who expect the government or others to do everything for them! It's time that people did things for themselves ....took responsibility for their own lives and their own welfare.

Part of the problem is that governments, not just in America, have gotten so large and ponderous that they're becoming more and more helpless to do anything. That isn't the proper function of government.

Baron Max

What is the proper function of governments?

Capitalist democracy is built on exploitation: winners and losers; surpluses and deficits.
The winner takes it all. Unfortunately this system is highly volatile and utterly unsustainable as it concentrates resources and power in the hands of a few elites who feel the urge to 'govern' and this tends to piss the rest off.

What is money? What is debt? Complete fabrications.

What is the proper function of governments?

that would depend on what you want the government to do.


Capitalist democracy is built on exploitation: winners and losers; surpluses and deficits.
The winner takes it all. Unfortunately this system is highly volatile and utterly unsustainable as it concentrates resources and power in the hands of a few elites who feel the urge to 'govern' and this tends to piss the rest off.

Exploitation?
Explain that one.
It's based on competition. Winners and losers don't apply to exploitation, unless you are saying things like sports and boardgames are based on exploitation too.


What is money? What is debt? Complete fabrications.

They are extensions of natural exchanges between people.
If I trade you 3 apples for 3 oranges, it's no different then selling you 3 apples and purchasing 3 oranges with the money. Money is simply a subtitue for a traded comodity.

I'd eliminate any and all welfare expenditures immediately! If the people couldn't survive, fuck 'em.
I'd eliminate FEMA and Homeland Security and any other government "service" that wasn't absolutely necessary. If terrorists wanted to come into a city and blow it up, fuck it ...let the city handle it.
I'd eliminate any expenditures to cities or states and if they couldn't survive, fuck 'em.
I'd build up the military and start conquering nations all over the world. If they tried to fight and kill my men, I'd nuke 'em until everything was totally destroyed ....right down to grass!!

I'd do a few other things, too, but I can't think of 'em all right now.

Baron Max

Umm, I'm not sure if you really thought this out, BM. With cities and states on their own and fucked, there would be no military. Millions would storm the white house and give the president the Mussolini treatment.

Mussolini treatment, eh! sounds kinky for Bushy...the problem is 25% are poor but rarely vote, 50% are employed by the government, the other 25% are doing fine the way it is ...out of that 5% is filthy rich...so what can happen...where is the revolution?

Umm, I'm not sure if you really thought this out, BM. With cities and states on their own and fucked, there would be no military.

Why do you say that? They could do just like they did in the old days ...the states were asked to provide 'x' number of troops and they did. And don't forget that, say, Calif, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas could form an "army" to close off the border with Mexico ...but that army does NOT have to be a function of the federal government.


Millions would storm the white house and give the president the Mussolini treatment.

Well, that would be up to the citizens, wouldn't it? If enough of them wanted to do that, so be it.

What you and most are advocating and/or defending is the one thing that was, in my opinion, never intended by the Constitution .....a powerful, central government. And that's exactly what we have, yet most of you do nothing but complain and bitch and moan!

Baron Max

What you and most are advocating and/or defending is the one thing that was, in my opinion, never intended by the Constitution .....a powerful, central government. And that's exactly what we have, yet most of you do nothing but complain and bitch and moan!
For the first time I agree with Baron Max. :eek:
It must be the end of times!!!!

Well, anyways... I don't think they like the idea of a powerful central government either.....

Still... your idea wasn't much different :bugeye:

Yaba Daba :m:

Meph
Winners (exploit) losers lose
no need for trade if you keep your commodities to yourself or just swop stuff i'll give you an orange if you'll give me an apple
money is a drag as it brings usury/profit into the equation

Kinda of hard for me to believe anything written by anybody named

"Rex Nutting"

money is a drag as it brings usury/profit into the equation

Don't forget the 50% interest rate by big banks...under the Republicans

Umm, I'm not sure if you really thought this out, BM. With cities and states on their own and fucked, there would be no military. Millions would storm the white house and give the president the Mussolini treatment.



BARON MAX FOR PRESIDENT!!! :D

I Agree!! (Only if we commit to the Mussolini treatment though.)

put that arm up!

Shout Heil!!

Meph
Winners (exploit) losers lose
no need for trade if you keep your commodities to yourself or just swop stuff i'll give you an orange if you'll give me an apple
money is a drag as it brings usury/profit into the equation

umm..
yeah..right.

uhh..
sniffy?

you realize that your "swopping" would be the same thing as trading right? There are plenty of ways to profit without money being in the equation...

Cottontop:


I too once saved 1K a month, or more. I was 26, 27, 28. I was an officer in the u.s. army. Now, I've had to spend that savings, at substantial penalties, because of a disability called major depression. I hope you don't have to do the same, or similar, someday
Ooohhh, since when is major depression a bloody “disability”?

You’re letting all those years worth of savings go to waste because why? Solutions come in a bottle or some educated prick is charging you 300 a pop for his therapy sessions?
You on meds?
Nowhere else on this planet does emotional bullshit become luxury items than here, you people are hilarious with your fucked up “coping strategies”


You even got (http://www.startingovertv.com/) TV shows
for this shit. (http://www.drphil.com/plugger/)

I’ve spent a good part of my life working at the shittiest jobs, some not so shitty some more so, and you’d have to cut both my feet or blind me for me to claim “disability.”
Let’s see here: Disability = not able, incapacity.

You are not able to function because you’re all depwessed? Something hurt your feelings so bad you can’t punch in a time card, sit at a desk pushing buttons or at least flip a burger?
Be damned- you’re interesting to me here because supposedly one joins the forces to learn self-sufficiency.
Yet aren’t you the same guy that would spend close to 150 bucks/month just on food?
And that’s assuming one person?

Bloody Americans, you can’t even imagine eating soup without crackers:

Hamburger? No buns? Mayo? Mustard? Lettuce? Tomato? Onions? Hamburger Helper of some kind? Barbecue sauce?
For the soups, no crackers?

Does it have to have crackers?
Does your rice have to have butter and condiments and your hamburger meat have to be "Hamburger fucking Helper"?

(And here I’m not necessarily talking about you, just your people)- but do you have to have bottled water, can’t drink tap?
Why of course not, its got all those dangerous chemicals in it yet never mind that you’ve got a government so fucking huge its got agencies by the dozens ensuring you actually can drink faucet water without having to boil it, but you people want to sit there and complain about the .0000003333% of nitrogen or chromium in the water. PCB, oooooh!! This is the same government that would compensate you for a fucking papercut.

But its Bushy’s fault that you’re all squanderers and spoiled stinking rotten, now ain’t it?
I hear $132 a month and then $80 some odd in contrast (hear hear) but I can get it down to about $75- I never ever buy brand unless sale priced, troll discount stores, store brands and coupon coupons coupons! Not to mention cutting back what is cuttable.
I hear a buck for hot sauce, well I know where to get it for 48 cents, sometimes a quarter for an average size bottle with a coupon.

By the way, Wal Mart rules as do Dollar stores.
Wal Mart has Great Value and Equate brands that are way less expensive than its competitors.
Case in point: hemorrhoid cream. Preparation H will run you about 8 or 12 bucks, the Equate brand sitting right next to it will cost about $2.50. 2.50

Who the hell would buy Preparation H when both have exactly the same ingredients??

Yes, I’m rambling but screw it. Thrift is my shindig. (self sufficiency!)

Know who’d buy the Preparation H and not the equate brand? Some degreed idiot from Enron, and she’d still buy it despite being laid off.

See, the company went bust and every last one of them sat around doing basically nothing eating up worker's comp, the unemployment rate shot up in that state and the statistics would make it look like jobs were a scarcity but was it now? There were and are hundreds of jobs that would bring home a pay check if only they quit thinking in terms of entitlement.
“Flip burgers? With a bacheleor’s in business and finance? Why, that’s absurd!”


Is it any wonder India is such a poor democracy?
All the high castes get government jobs to warm chairs and the lower castes do all the dirty work, but even as the economy declines despite American or British outsourcing the elite wouldn’t dare work next to untouchables even if a democratic market demands it.


SELF SUFFICIENCY

No wonder you people are burdened with debt.

Damn Gendy, that was pretty good. Where are you from?

That was the best rant you've written in months Gendanken.

Thrifty chicks turn me on.

Seriously. I can't stand waste and all those pricks who get expensive brands. A girl who... ah nevermind.

Seriously, Gendanken. Thank you.

What were you going to say roman?
Is satisfied/happy with a little where most would want a lot?

That explains so much....

Damn Gendy, that was pretty good. Where are you from?
My little secret.
Going to answer or not?

What meds are you on, fucker?


I can't stand waste and all those pricks who get expensive brands
Its not just the Ambercrombie and Gucci crowds, mulleted one.
Notice how many bags the cashier will use to put only three things in.
3 where 1 will do.

My little secret.I'm gonna guess Germany or somewhere thereabouts.

Going to answer or not?Sure, now that things are down to a manageable level (for me, tonight).


What meds are you on, fucker?Remeron, Neurontin and Hydrochlorothiazide.

Tonight, I don't feel like long-winded diatribes. Your post was just too overwhelming. Tonight, I feel like short, sweet little posts.

Remeron, Neurontin and Hydrochlorothiazide.
Bingo.

.
.
.

So, I'm off to rip newbies. Maybe not, chick is boring me.

(Aside- its fun watching you knights try to protect the fair damsel from the "she-beast" Gendanken by flailing your shiny little peenees oops swords in my general direction.)

Looked them up yet, Gendy? To see what they are for? What's your point? That you are superior or something?

Notice how many bags the cashier will use to put only three things in.
3 where 1 will do.
Wasteful, yeah, but then I have 2 more bags that I other wouldn't have. Free plastic bags are great.

But I know what you're talking about.

I was going to stay out. But nobody else has brought this up and I just can't let this go without a comment.


Case in point: hemorrhoid cream. Preparation H will run you about 8 or 12 bucks, the Equate brand sitting right next to it will cost about $2.50. 2.50

Hemmorhoid cream?
Did you look that up on the internet or do you know from personal experience?
Big old golf-ball-sized hemmorhoids hangin' out your ass, Gendanken?
Or maybe you buy it for your mother?

(I suspect that this was bait and that you looked the prices up online, but I'll bite if no one else will.)

I'm guessing you looked it up and verified it, nexus?

Uh. Yeah. Looked it up. Yeah. That's it...

Actually. No. I just assumed she had the right price. I suppose that's a third option. That she just made it up off the top of her head.

I associated it with a similar item (though it's only similar in price, I guess). Ibuprofen (generic) vs. Motrin or other similarly over-priced name-brand ibuprofen products. H cream means little to me.

I'm depressed :(

Cottontop:

Looked them up yet, Gendy? To see what they are for? What's your point? That you are superior or something?

I’m acquianted with Neurontin.

And I adore how easily you play this ‘superior’ card, as if this was poker. Wassamata, I come off as superiour to you?
Since when is the world’s fattest, ugliest skeetch superiour to you, Cottonturd?

Nexus:

Actually. No. I just assumed she had the right price. I suppose that's a third option. That she just made it up off the top of her head.
The only 'shit' I make up is the kind I defecate.

You will find this peculiar, but I use the cream on my face- not for hemorrhoids.
Around the eyes, mostly.

Feel free to think it Barbish vanity, but: go to any pharmacy or beauty section and you will find no face cream of purpoted 'good quality' under 5 or 6 dollars.
Neutrogena wants you to pay 8 to 10 dollars for a measly ounce of undereye Heatlhy Skin "night cream" and 8 to 10 more for a Heatly Skin "day cream"…… relying on you being stupid enough not to notice the only difference between both is a mild sunscreen, of course.

Don’t believe me, check yourselves (http://www.nextag.com/serv/main/buyer/OutPDir.jsp?nxtg=cdd13_B4D0E527C6FFF2CB&mfr=Neutrogena&node=2700066&page=0).

Long story short, my being a woman I know that companies make a killing off female vanity and the 100 bucks an ounce a woman pays for beauty cream will only smooth her fucking concience, not her wrinkles.
Since I do care for my skin, but also for my pennies, why pay 10 bucks for a an ounce of pompous “night” cream when a 3 ounce tube of hemorrhoid cream would leave your skin as smooth and youthful? For 2.50.

I’m not the only one that does it-

http://www.prep-h.com/story.html

Only difference is they’ll by the H when I will not.
All you males can go in and buy a pack of razors four about 3 bucks. Know how much these parasites would have little innocent me pay for the same thing but in pink, you know, ‘cause its “Just for Her”?


I suspect

You’re always ‘suspecting’
Fukushi:

I'm depressed

Then come to my chocolate factory (http://thescienceforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=865&start=0)

Cottontop:

I’m acquianted with Neurontin.Good for you.


Wassamata, I come off as superiour to you?You come off as wanting to be superior.


Since when is the world’s fattest, ugliest skeetch superiour to you, Cottonturd?Why you gotta go and do that?

Is it the Federal Buget or Deficit that's shrinking? :confused: I'm a little confused by all these off-topic posts! :D

The deficit is barely shrinking and the budget is still sky-high. Repubs used to be the cut-taxes/reduce-spending party. Now, they are the cut-taxes/spend-exorbitant-amounts party.

Now, they are the cut-taxes/spend-exorbitant-amounts party.
It's for their new support– the irrational American.

They've decided to do things democratically, sense be damned.

It's for their new support– the irrational American.

They've decided to do things democratically, sense be damned.

Trust me, about 75% of americans are senseless, fat cows.

You mean:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/owlive/img/mar05/kirstie_030205_big.jpg

EXACTLY! Brain Dead TWAT!

EXACTLY! Brain Dead TWAT!

What an impressive display of "un-cow-like sense". :rolleyes:

What an impressive display of "un-cow-like sense". :rolleyes:

Yeah, roll your eyes all the way to the third-world status that you so desparately deserve, wes. Enjoy. :)

As this thread is clearly political, I will post copy of post in the "What is your current fuel cost" thread:

Here in Sao Paulo (Brazil) we have a choice Alcohol or gasoline at every station. Cars have been using alcohol for about 30 years in Brazil. 12 month growing season, cheap land and labor make Alcohol very competive although for several years about a decade ago it was not the more economical fuel because the world price of sugar was high and that of petroleum was low. Now days most new cars are "flex fuel" and can burn any mixture or pure of either fuel.

Currently the real is relatively strong WRT US dollar (2.30R$ buys a dollar) Alcohol costs 0.97R$/ liter and regular gas about R$2.30/ liter. High test is more expensive. There is less energy in alcohol and a common rule of thumb is that if alcohol cost is 40% less than gas, buy the alcohol to reduce your cost per Km of driving.

Brazil would like to sell/license its very advance (30years of development and billions of Km of driving experience) to rest of world and then export some of our cheap alcohol, but your driving costs are in the political control of leaders in the pockets of the oil industry, especially in the US where the top leader and many of the top men themselves were oil industry CEOs. They and the automotive industry want you to buy the big gas hogs you do, so relative to the rest of the world, they tax gas less and under fund public health etc. US is very rich, but far from the top in public services, like public transportations etc. which can reduce global warming etc. Katrina is one of the prices you will increasingly pay most years for filling the air with CO2 at the rate you do. Expect worse as the years go by.

Also note that sugar cane alcohol reduces gobal warming as it removes carbon from the air - far more than the cars powed by alcohol release. Not only is part left in the ground (roots) when cut, but only the fermented juice goes to still. The pressed cane stocks are sometimes burned to make electrical energy or steam to directly power the cane crushers extracting the juice. If not used this way, it typically becomes part of cattle feed - Sorry to tell you James R, but Brazil now has passed Austrila as the world leading producer for beef so we have a lot of cows to feed.

I can not understand why US voters are so stupid as to elect people more intererested in the health and wealth of the oil industry than in Alcohol - a proven, clean, economical, renewable, energy system.

More directly on the budget deficit queston, I understand that a lot of the cost of Bush's oil conquest war is not currently recognized and who knows what his promisses about the restoration of New Orleans will cost. By not being honest with your accountng, you can do a lot to make a government or company look good for a while. As I recall, it was that last Democrate president that actually had budget surpluses.

Yeah, roll your eyes all the way to the third-world status that you so desparately deserve, wes. Enjoy. :)

LOL. Funny that pointing out your shallow, arrogant snobbery makes ME deserving of "third-world status". Yeah, it's MY fault you're that way. Uh huh.

Why don't you be an adult and take responsibility for your own stupidity?

Maybe there some highly insightful, biting point to "exactly, braindead twat" that I've missed. Please explain.

Somehow I've sparked this little twaddle bettwen Wes and Cotton.

What I was trying to point out was the ridiculous new political (maybe not too new) philosophy of deficit spending.

Spend lots of money AND cut taxes. Nevermind that it's either one or the other (cons v libs, dems v. repubs). You used to be able to vote between the lesser of two evils. Now it's vote for both evils– bigger debt and bigger gov't.

Whatever and ever amen.

No, cotton sparked it.

Did little ole cotton spark it? I'm so sooo sorry.