I have already tried to run through this once using point-form logical constructs, here (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15358). Now I'll try a more circumlocutious method.

Socrates, Prince Siddhartha, and others have suggested that freedom (or enlightenment) occurs when one is free of all wordly desires and influences. The needs to eat, drink, and breathe, and so on, are not included in this; indeed, Socrates was a big fan of getting smashed now and then. Among such needs we can include fear, anger, hatred, greed, lust, and so on. Although denying the existence of such things is not the aim; the aim is to accept them, and be at one with all aspects of the self, rather than being controlled by such things.

Now, I would like to point out that there are some behaviours we can observe here on this simple medium of communication which clearly indicate that certain people are indeed slaves:

The need to boost one's own ego by calling people names.
The need to boost one's own ego by self-aggrandisement.
The need to boost one's own ego by considering oneself part of some cultural or philosophical elite.
The need to jump up on a soapbox and scream "You're all slaves to society! My way is better!" (It is, after all, a need to have one's views accepted by others.)
And so on...


Reasoned criticism of behaviours is one thing. Baseless assertions intended only to satisfy such needs as outlined above are pure mental slavery.

What I'm getting at here, as must be clear by now, is that those members of sciforums who indulge the needs outlined above are what they claim to rail against: mental slaves. If we are set against some external factor, then we are partically defined by that factor, and thus are a slave to it.

adam, are you a slave?

Does this thread have a point?

I like insulting you. You get all silly and hysterical, and I can just imagine you sitting behind your keyboard going "MORALS GOOD! HONOUR GOOD! I LIKE CHEEZE WHIZ AND LOGIC IS FOR SISSIES!" while your eyes bug out.

It makes me giggle.


If we are set against some external factor, then we are partically defined by that factor, and thus are a slave to it.

Faulty logic, slave boy.

One can only wonder whether or not Adam includes himself in this. I'm trying really, really, hard not to collapse in hysterical laughter at the moment.

One can really have more fun than a barrel of leeches if one imagines Adam as he types.

Sometimes I think he has a very somber expression when he makes posts like the above, then I see him get upset and start ranting like he does. I think he jumps up and down when one starts attacking his golden calfs, and he spills Cheezy-Poofs all over his keyboard.

Uh-oh. We've had fun at Adam's expense, we're now guilty of being slaves to our own amusement at his hypocrasy.

hmm... using Adam logic, does that now make hypocrasy a valid lifestyle? I'm sure there's some fault in my logic here, but I just can't... quite... put my finger on it.

Uh-oh. We've had fun at Adam's expense, we're now guilty of being slaves to our own amusement at his hypocrasy.

Oh shucks, I guess we are. 'Cause I love watching Adam squeal like an offended piglet...so I guess that makes me a slave to my sense of humour.

*Xev's sense of humour promptly shackles her and makes her look for dead baby jokes*

Now, one could say:
- Adam dangled a worm on a hook.
- Two little fishies jumped on right quick, demonstrating my point.

However, I was actually hoping for rational discussion.

Originally posted by Xev
I like insulting you. You get all silly and hysterical, and I can just imagine you sitting behind your keyboard going "MORALS GOOD! HONOUR GOOD! I LIKE CHEEZE WHIZ AND LOGIC IS FOR SISSIES!" while your eyes bug out.

do u like when ppl make u act all silly and hysterical? or do u pretend that ur a hard guy and can't be hurt by anyone? what if someone kills your mother, just because they wanna giggle at your hysterical reaction?

do u curse ppl for being idiotic towards u? if so, why blame them, when u do it to others yourself?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam, it is true that ppl act like that, and we are all slaves. Some more than others.

ohh.. im awaitin xev's reply to ribot's post.. ehehehe.. :D

One could say you dangled bait, but one would be deluding themselves. It's very easy to come up with glib dismissals, and easier to fool yourself over another's motives.

If one does a search of all the threads like this you've started or replied to, or in fact looks through your history in general, they'd find you fit into pretty much all of the categories listed above. One of the best demonstrations of your point, Adam, is you.

The thing is, you've done this topic before, and you'll keep doing it again, and again, and again, until you're satisfied that everyone agrees with you, or will debate you on your own terms. While I might despair of you ever actually understanding anything about the subject you claim to have an interest in, I can certainly admire your tenacity. Your sig, while seemingly clever to anyone who has no understanding of the subject, merely demonstrates your ignorance to those of us who do.

You'll find the only people who do agree with you are other members of the slave moralists' club. The rest of us see you as little more than an amusing diversion. You have no need to worry about that though.. after all, you're in the majority. Safe.

ohh.. im awaitin xev's reply to ribot's post.. ehehehe..
Really?
Well I think it will be safe to say we can expect it to include something about power, something about whether something's objective or subjective, references to rape, torture and eating babies, a swear word or two, some regurgitated de Sade or Nietzche....

Same old, same old.

Anyway, some people are slaves to the concept of themselves, including of course the concept of not being slaves. I guess it's an adolescent thing that in order to get a feeling for yourself as an individual - different - you have to have something to be different to, even if that something doesn't actually exist.

The word slave is a bit over the top.
Add name dropping to your list....
And moaning that the children of god aren't taking things serious.

A life without material possesion is an animal existance. If to be enlightened means to give away my few material possesions and not to say boo to a goose, then enlightened people must really get shit on from a great height.
I'd say to be enlightened you would have to live without judgement on others as well, to be free of critisism.

I think you can only know yourself wether you were enlightened at your moment of death, it's when you say 'thank god' instead of 'bollocks'. :D

As for mental slavery, i'll have to introduce you to my domme mistress.........she'll make you change your mind. :eek:

I guess that we are all slaves of our mind in the sense that our minds are severely restricted. But hardly anyone thinks that they are. Hence this adolescent obsession with finding THE truth. The truth being that the truth cannot be grasped by our mortal and fragile brains. Our brains are designed with a few specific tasks in mind and assessing the ultimate truth is probably not one of them.

There is no truth, per se. There are just events and conditions. We interprete and react according to our personal paradigm=world view=matrix. We create or allow our own truths and they only pertain to us. And so our life is what we make it. We are/are not slaves if we believe we are. Names=titles=definitions only apply to us if we accept them. We define our own reality.

Originally posted by Dana D
There is no truth, per se. There are just events and conditions. We interprete and react according to our personal paradigm=world view=matrix. We create or allow our own truths and they only pertain to us. And so our life is what we make it. We are/are not slaves if we believe we are. Names=titles=definitions only apply to us if we accept them. We define our own reality.

so is this true or your truth?

i have to admit, there ARE some people on the forum who are a mental slave hehe, especially how adam defined it:D

The need to boost one's own ego by self-aggrandisement.
The need to boost one's own ego by considering oneself part of some cultural or philosophical elite.
The need to jump up on a soapbox and scream "You're all slaves to society! My way is better!"


Does the constant need to expose people you see as hypocrits fall into these categories at all, Adam? It seems you have quite the hang-up on these folk. I suggest you find a new philosophical obsession and leave those you apparently don't care about to deal in their own obsessions, hm?

I think Xev illustrated to you the point of all this; bugging you works. You're like a little mouse falling into a trap everytime you say something like this, Adam. The one's you so despise sit back and consider it another chalked up victory for themselves.

Sciforums gains nothing.
They loose nor gain nothing except a sense of victory.
Unless making them laugh is your goal, I fail to see how this gains anything for you.
And finally, I'm really hard-pressed to consider this a philosophy thread. I know Xev would not move this (at least initially) as it would be viewed as quite bias considering it is, at least, partially aimed at her.

As you said, Adam; "What I'm getting at here, as must be clear by now, is that those members of sciforums who indulge the needs outlined above are what they claim to rail against: mental slaves"

Those who yell so loudly at what they clearly hate must surely be what they hate, no?

You've claimed that these folk you look down upon use insults to boost their own ego. Any proof? After all, what good is a... "Baseless assertion"?

adam does sound like he's been spending some time on a soapbox:p

All right, let it be done with. Or with it, let be done. Do it and did with . . . aw, shit, I screwed it up. I'll start over.

Get over it. This issue has been rehashed enough. There's plenty of philosophy left without the whole "society v. non-society," and there's even some left in that field that hasn't been covered yet because there's been so much bitching about the particulars. I've stopped coming into this forum because the interesting topics die out when the repetitive ones take over.

H-dog out.

A simple method of seeing whether 1) I simply wanted a discussion, 2) I am a slave regarding this issue, or 3) two other monkeys are slaves, is to count the number of posts and examine their content. Please do so, then get over yourselves and try discussing the topic.

"is to count the number of posts and examine their content"

I'm afraid I don't follow, Adam. This has little to do with what I said.
You're made it seemingly your crusade to expose and call out those who call you and others "slaves", those who you feel are "slaves" themselves for calling out others as slaves.

Now I'm curious as to your logic....
"Some people call others 'slaves' and this indicates that they are slaves. So I am calling them slaves."

Anyway, once again you've made unsubstantiated claims. You say that these people put you down to boost their own ego. What proof do you have of this? How do you know they don't just simply enjoy seeing you after they call you a "slave". I for one am quite enjoying watching this thread!


"then get over yourselves and try discussing the topic."

Get over myself? How am I hung up on myself?
Unless I've missed something, Adam, you're the one devoting a thread to discussing the downfalls of a few members of sciforums.

I'll discuss when you show proof that any of the comments you made are true and these people do these acts for self ego.

... You kinda just proved Adam's point there, in a way hehe

ribot -

It is both for me. You can decide if it is so for you.

My words are merely an event in your life. You will interprete them as your matrix allows. Assimilate or discard as best suits you.

I know Xev would not move this (at least initially) as it would be viewed as quite bias considering it is, at least, partially aimed at her.

Actually, I was going to delete it, then I thought of how upset Adam gets when I call him a slave.

Whee!

Adam:

However, I was actually hoping for rational discussion.

Well, then give us a rational basis for discussion!

Duuuuh. :)

Originally posted by Adam
3) two other monkeys are slaves, is to count the number of posts and examine their content. .

i don't think that this is a very thorough scientific approach to dertermine the slave content of a forumer. There has been no prior literature postulating that high post counts on sciforum and a combined analysis of their content gives any indication of the slaveness of the forumer.
I gathered that you are trying to venture that certain post content indicate a slave-like mentality. We would first have to establish which types of contents are a clear sign of slave-like behaviour and subsequently assess the intention of the poster in question. Is this person trying to project an image of himself (herself) as a slave or is there a direct causal relationship. Is the poster's mind hardwired or rewired for producing slave posts.
The other thing to consider is if an occasional non-slave post can compensate for a slave-post or even multiple slave-posts. I assume here that it is easier to be a mental slave than to be the opposite. Hence an occasional non-slave post could in fact be a sign of a anti-slave mentality hiding behind a facade of mental slaveness.

Now this is just getting silly. :)

No, no, no...I am easily the biggest slave on these forums...so quit this stupid bickering and congratulate yourselves that you are not as derivative and mindless as I am.

No, no, no...I am easily the biggest slave on these forums...so quit this stupid bickering and congratulate yourselves that you are not as derivative and mindless as I am.

Wow! That sounds fun, can I be a helot too?

Originally posted by fadingCaptain
No, no, no...I am easily the biggest slave on these forums...so quit this stupid bickering and congratulate yourselves that you are not as derivative and mindless as I am.

a slave has no right to tell us who the biggest slave is...you are disqualified in the competition

a slave has no right to tell us who the biggest slave is...

Is this like when you have the women from fat-fetish pornos star in BDSM pornos?

*Xev squeals at the mental image*

Originally posted by Xev
Is this like when you have the women from fat-fetish pornos star in BDSM pornos?



i would be lying if i said that i had understood this sentence