View Full Version : Some thoughts on time, percieved reality, and spiritualism


Spirit17
02-22-00, 05:33 AM
There's been alot of ideas kicking around lately and I just thought I should share some of them.

~Our sense of time (as being linear) is shut off during sleep and dreaming and yet we still perceive time as being real. Just not in the normal everyday sense. This suggests very strongly that our perception of time is caused by a function of the brain. Our conscienceness perceives time as being linear so it can organize it's actions in a way that would be most beneficial to it's current state. However, when dreaming, this perception is no longer needed and therefore no longer applied. This brain function acts like a pair of sunglasses; it uses what is already in place and merely tints it in order to filter out potential hazards or distractions. Once the sun goes down (metaphorically speaking about sleeping, of course), the glasses are taken off and reality is more adequately perceived. It may be that the brain is merely dumming down this perception, or changing to a different frequency. Either way, the time perception seems so natural during dreamstate that people have a very difficult time distinguishing such an obvious difference while in the dreamstate. This furthers my belief that time is a tangible property of the universe and the way it is perceived is paramount to the outcome, despite having no
"correct" structure of perception.
If you agree with the linear structure of space/time take this experiment into consideration. An observer watching a sequence of falling domino blocks will always watch the domino that is currently in motion, the reason for this is obvious. The domino is active, it's future is probable but still unknown and therefore attention must be focused on the present. The past blocks still exist, but there relevance has been lost, the significance of this is realized in the next paragraph.

~Colour, sound and touch are other examples of the human brain bending the truth in order to nurture it's survival. We must now accept our inability to perceive the true nature of our reality is a result of an evolved bias. Nature evolves things only necessary for survival; it does not care about truth. Many creatures experience life in many different ways. Dolphins see with echolocation, fly's taste with their feet. The result of our bias says that everything we know about existence is what our brains allow us. We are born with this natural logic based thought process, binocular vision, and sense impact with touch. We have the ability to change frequencies and act accordingly because our survival depends on it. Yesterdays happenings has no physical attachment to toady’s happenings so there is no point in our brains perceiving yesterdays happenings, it's a waste of information in terms of its survival.

~Arguably spirituality can be deduced to being nothing more than a part of the brain designed to help us cope with the emotional trauma’s and ethical dilemma’s associated with death and everyday life. We can even stimulate this part of the brain in order to evoke a transcendent experience. But we should not jump to the conclusion that "God is in the brain" so to speak. That is much like saying David Letterman is in the television set. You could do all sorts of neat things to the television to make David Letterman’s image distorted or get whatever affect you desire. Manipulating the real David letterman however would prove much more difficult. This supports my belief that Brains are receptors and manipulators of reality, we should not be fooled into believing that the soul exists solely inside the brain. This assumption can be attributed to the everyday-programmed structure of thinking that our brains consider most important. This often detracts us from the larger picture.


A piece of metal can be hot, but the heat itself will eventually move on and the metal will be cooled. The heat, for a period of time, existed solely within the metal. This obviously does not mean that the heat needs metal to exist. Metal is just one of the many ways heat has of being perceived. Heat still exists; weather or not it's capable of being perceived. I believe that we measure the effects of the heat, on the metal, and not the essence of heat, as being a temporary part of the metal. The soul is temporarily absorbed by brain neurons and so on, which acts as a conscious gravity, keeping us within the body's framework. And being the control center for the rest of the body. Nothing else in the known universe is known to exhibit the effects of consciousness other than living beings. So what happens to consciousness when it's physical incarnation becomes inadequate.

Christian
02-22-00, 06:39 AM
Yesterdays happenings has no physical attachment to toady’s happenings so there is no point in our brains perceiving yesterdays happenings, it's a waste of information in terms of its survival.

Yesterday I danced, almost continuously, for three hours. While I was dancing, I was enjoying myself and having a good time. Today, I am sore - very sore. When I feel the soreness, I perceive yesterday's happenings which caused the soreness (even though there was a period of sleep in between).

I met someone many years ago and we became friends. Yesterday, I was speaking with that friend and we worked towards the solution to a problem together. While we were both sleeping last night, my friend died in their sleep. Today I realize that I will not see my friend from this day forward and I mourn the loss of my friend. Even though I will never see this person again, the solution which we found together yesterday will have an everlasting impact on my future life.

The linear sequence of time is given merit in this sense.

Before, during and after. Cause and effect. They are very real. Dreams occur during a much needed period of rest from reality and are not real. Dreams give us a break from reality. Reality might or might not be fun. In either case, reality takes its toll on the body.

In our eternal life, the soul will not be housed in such a body and will not need such rest.

GammaEridon
02-22-00, 01:12 PM
There is one problem with stating that dreams are not real. Dreams are memories resurfacing in seemingly random orders as our brain reorganizes the information of the day and integrates it with all that we have already experienced. To say that they are not real is to assume that your brain creates completely new images that are based upon nothing, which is not possible. The brain only has that which it has experienced to draw from.

Christian
02-23-00, 05:56 AM
Dreams might be considered real in that they exist (and they might be based in part on real-life events).

In dreams, reality (real-life events) gets distorted and is placed in the context of very unreal imagininigs and illusions. In that sense, dreams are not real.

MoonCat
02-23-00, 01:42 PM
I think it should be said not that time doesn't exist for the sleeper, more that the sleeper is less aware of time.

For example, your inner clock. I happen to be fortunate enough that my inner clock works very well. I can lie down for a nap, tell myself to wake up in a hour, 2 hours, whatever, and I will wake up within 2 to 5 minutes of the span I chose for my nap. While I'm sleeping, some part of my brain is ticking away, and when that limit I placed is reached, I wake. I may not be aware of that in my dream, but it is still functioning quite well. My heart still beats, my lungs still force air in and out, etc. So perhaps our inner clocks are part of our involuntary systems, not our voluntary ones, and that's why dreams seem timeless. You probably don't think about your heart beating in dreams either, but it's still beating none the less.

tablariddim
02-23-00, 02:20 PM
Dreams are indeed timeless, even daydreaming can make you lose track of time.
I love to daydream.

The dream was to dream
so I dreamed
and the dream became reality
and so I dream
and the dream is to dream

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"The crows are already stoned", he said.
With a look of dispassion on his sad face.

Peter Dolan
02-23-00, 11:06 PM
GammaEridon, I'm afraid I've got to take issue with your assertion that the brain can't create "new images" to draw upon for dreaming. Of the many dreams I've had, one was where I dreamt of being a Soviet soldier who led his "comrades in arms" straight into an ambush. I remember being "killed" in that dream along with many of my fellow compatriots. I knew something wasn't right in that dream {we had our "dress uniforms" with medals on, not our "battle dress"; "dress uniforms" are for formal affairs i.e. parades and yes, funerals}, but at the time didn't know what. Such a dream had to be drawn from my imaginative brain since my military experience never involved combat nor was I ever in service to the former Soviet State. This dream wasn't "real" nor could I've drawn from any personal experience to account for it as already mentioned above regarding my military experience not to mention that I've hadn't had much experience with being killed either.

Rambler
02-23-00, 11:43 PM
Ahh yes but we also have a frontal lobe to ponder what maybe.......

(This was intended to be a reply to the statement that the brain can only take from experience)...didn't see posts below until after I posted sorry.
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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited February 23, 2000).]

Tony H2o
02-24-00, 06:17 AM
Discussion topic Dreams and Visions may be of interest to those involved in this discussion.

H2o