A team of Coumbia University scientists is warning against incorporating spiritual and religious intervention into medical practice due to the current lack of "empirical" justification.

However, the team does acknowledge that religious and spiritual activities provide comfort in the face of illness and that codes of religious conduct that prohibit smoking, drinking alcohol, unsafe sexual activity, psychosocial stress and unhealthy dietary habits help to reduce sickness and death.

A 1996 random survey of 296 members of the American Academy of Family Physicians revealed that 99 percent were "convinced" that religious beliefs can heal. A whopping 75 percent believe that prayer given by "others" can also heal.

Thirty US medical schools now include courses in religion, spirituality and health in their curricula.

Recent studies by schools of medicine at various universities confirm that the practices of spirituality and religion reduce high blood pressure in women.

I, for one, am all for the integration of medical science and faith. How about you?

Here's to your health!

TS,
I have a question. How do you know that it
is actually God that is healing people and not just a belief that God can heal them.
Meaning... they have convinced their mind
that they will be healed and then the body
responds to that. Clear as mud? :)

[This message has been edited by Flash (edited December 20, 1999).]

I think 'faith', is the 'be all' and 'end all', whether it's faith in Christ, Mohammed or Feng Shui.
The religious put their faith outside of themselves, the spiritual put their faith partly outside and partly inside and the strictly unspiritual put their faith only in themselves.
Some people ofcourse, have no faith in anything at all.

Flash,
Whether people actually benefit from their faiths and beliefs must be to the greater extent subjective.And I believe god is only relevant if he/she/they exist, within one's chosen religion/faith/philosophy.

I think it's a combination of both, Flash. I don't follow the Christian faith, but I do believe in the power of positive thought, whether you call it a prayer, a spell, a wish, whatever. I believe there is a huge amount of energy available, and we can move that energy and shape it to our wills. Hence people that have healing hands, and the like.

The healer has faith that their healing will work, they concentrate their energies into their hands. The healee's (is that a real word?) belief in the energies power is what allows it to work. The damaged body shapes itself to the energy sent into it.

I have seen this in practice, and actually experienced it in my lifetime. I had a lot of surgery and such as a little kid (about age 1 through 2 1/2) and they couldn't give me painkillers because they had almost killed me with them a couple times already. So I experienced quite a bit of pain, and once my mother was able to lay her hands on me and draw the pain out. I still have a VERY vivid memory of that, it felt like I became a hose, and all the pain flowed out of me.

So, yes, I am a believer!

tablariddim,

I get where you're coming from. However, before my layoff from posting on this website, I had a long debate with Boris who claimed not to be of faith, that is to say religious, at all. Even Boris, being both stubborn and wise, the self-assured, had to come to a point where there was the acknowledgement of the fact that he really does have a religious stance. Everyone, be it in themselves or simply the righteousness of their own ideas, has a religious faith.

Boris,

If you're out there, "Hi there buddy!" We never did finish. It would be nice to.

Jesus Is Real Power,
ISDAMan

My Friend Flash,

You've asked a wonderful question in, "How do you know that it is actually God that is healing people and not just a belief that God can heal them. Meaning... they have convinced their mind that they will be healed and then the body responds to that. Clear as mud?" I encourage you to read mine and truestory's posts under "how can you tell?". It's just like being passed a note in class that isn't signed with a name. If you have a relationship with that person; the letter is signed with the essence of that relationship. You know when that person is passing you a message. God gives promises in His Word. If you have aright relationship with Him, His promises of Love and reward will show through. If you are not in a right relationship with Him, His promises of Love and correction will show. It's all a matter of how you relate to Him. All others are confused when they come across messages that developed out of a message that they were never partakers of. In comforting His children, as well as healing them, He is sure to let them know that He is near and working on their behalf.

Jesus Is The Real Power,
ISDAMan

In order for the body to heal well, it must be comfortable. Part of being comfortable includes having one's mind at ease. It would not help an atheist like me to have a priest present before going in for surgery. I would not feel comfortable at all with any religious implications. Therefore, religion and Jesus would do me no good. I would be most comfortable simply knowing that I was in the hands of a competent doctor. If it helps my religious friends deal with it by praying for me, then let them help themselves to it. I welcome their concern and well-wishes. Fortunately, I'm not due for surgery anytime soon! :D

Truestory:

I would say that Columbia's response is to counteract two things happening in the healing industry.

First there seems to be a set of prejudices linking chiropracters to sorcery ... at least, that's the way it sounded here in the 1997 election; but the public definitely seems to see a link between chiropracters and spiritual healing. This is only important because chiropracters have, in recent years, become vocal about establishing a place in the medical canon. (As a side note to the '97 election ... the vote against chiropracters was not regarding people's ill view of the practice, as the measure was written to include homeopathy and other direct-application treatments; the big issue came when the 3 biggest insurers in the state --including my employer--threatened to raise their rates if the measure passed.)

Is the connection there? I understand if not.

Secondly, and perhaps more salient, is a 1997 study by the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An apparently triple-blind (?!) study of "distant healing" through prayer for AIDS-complex patients found nothing particularly stunning. But to say that their study warrants further research does not simply come from vagaries. Setting a standard of an MD's assessment of a 5% chance of this event happening naturally, they found "significant" results in 40% of their patients ("significant" does not necessarily fall within the 5% assessment; I will find the data for the 5% margin if you need.)

I might add that an MD named Dossey (Larry, I think) wrote a book called "Healing Hands". I've never read the entire thing because, frankly, the subject didn't hold THAT much interest over the last several years. But the IONS report sort of snapped me awake because it's as quantitative as the field has been.

However, aside from the few points I've raised, I know little about distant healing beyond what I consider a shared cultural faith in the power of hope (and if you'll accept that this is not a barb at your faith, let me say that the power of hope is one faith I can get behind).

thanx,
Tiassa

------------------
"Religion isn't dead either. The AntiChrist will have access to computers, television, radio, and compact disc. If he walks among us already, the chances are that he has a walkman. I just hope it's not Christ himself, disillusioned after two thousand years in a cosmic sitting room full of magazines and cheeseplants, turned malignant and rotting in despair at the way his message has been perverted." (Robyn Hitchcock, 11/1987)

Skye,
Thank you for your input. This makes a lot of sense..and after some thought to it I would have to say that I do agree with you.

ISDAMan,
I will try to look the stories up when I have more time.

In comforting His children, as well as healing them, He is sure to let them know that He is near and working on their behalf.
His children...you mean the ones who follow him? How is it if one does not believe that he would make himself known? There are some out here on this board who are searching for truth..if God/Jesus was the only way to truth..then why have they not made themselves known? Why is your God so selective in whom he chooses?

Flash,

God is not one to stain Himself with impurity. You meet Him on His terms or you don't meet Him at all. Not being willing that any should parish, He chooses everyone. However, some people try coming to play in His football game wearing ice skates. He'll not have them on His team until they comply.

Joy to the world, The Lord has come,
ISDAMan

ohhhhhhhhh I see... I have to COMPLY with
his RULES... thx

Flash,

Yes, I know, "rule" is a dirty four letter word to people today. They're all over the place. It's a sign of maturity in how a person deals with them.

Christ the King,
ISDAMan

ISDAman,
I tend to break some the rules I don't agree with. Does this make me immature, or evil incarnate?
But as as you said in a previous post it don't really matter does it? I'll still go to hell, 'cause according to you , god wants it all or nothing.

What is absolutely ironic, is that I can spend almost my whole life breaking as many rules as I like, but if I manage to live long enough to rediscover my faith in god and Jesus and repent, I, will be saved.
Yet my neighbour who is the kindest, fairest, friendliest and most benign person I know, cannot bring himself to accept Jesus as his saviour because of his acute cynisism
through one reason and another, he will end up going to hell for eternity.
The system surely sux!

ISDAMan,

So if my son gets sick, but he hasn't been a good boy, I shouldn't take him to the doctor because he didn't follow my rules? Is that how a loving (did I mention mature?) parent takes care of his/her children?

He doesn't want to stain Himself with our impurity?? Oh, puhleeaase!! :rolleyes:

------------------
www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

SEARCHER!!! How did you make that rolly-eye guy?? Man, you come up with the BEST stuff!!

BTW - I agree with Searcher, as usual. :)

SkyeBlue,

When you are in the reply box, look to your left where you will see a link called, "Smilies Legend". It's new - just click on that and it tells you how to make all the different faces. It's pretty cool!

I especially like this guy: :eek:


------------------
www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

YES!

:rolleyes:

:cool: Cool!!

If you tell your child, because you love him/her, that the only way to survive the imminent inferno is to wear the protective suit which you give them, your child had better comply, or your child will perish.

Jesus Christ is our protective suit which has been given to us by our loving God. It's your choice whether or not to put it on. Don't be too proud to wear it. It will save your life in the long-run.


[This message has been edited by truestory (edited December 23, 1999).]

tab,

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR>I tend to break some the rules I don't agree with. Does this make me immature, or evil incarnate? But as as you said in a previous post it don't really matter does it? I'll still go to hell, 'cause according to you , god wants it all or nothing.<HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

Criminals tend to break the rules they don't like too. They also tend to get imprisoned for it. No one ever called you evil incarnate. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. it also says that all of our good deeds are as filthy rags. Your can't be good enough to just work your way into God's Heaven. God made us for fellowship with him. If we do not conform to His ways, what makes you think He should let you or anyone else into His Heaven? I've posted regarding your very questions before. Look under the "I believe" thread to get your answers.

Searcher,

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. The fact that your son in the example is sick is every reason for you to seek to have his condition tended to. Read what Jesus said. Mark 2:15-17 <FONT COLOR="BLUE">And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them,</FONT><FONT COLOR="RED"> They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.</FONT> You have never seen me post anything that advocates not seeking help. The Bible tells us again and again that there is a whole lotta good in many wise counselors. The whole premiss of the Bible is God coming to Help man in his sickness.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

ISDAMan

<FONT SIZE="1">Excerpt from The Complete Multimedia Bible King James Version
Copyright (c) 1994 Compton's NewMedia, Inc."</FONT>

[This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited December 23, 1999).]

ISDAMan,

I'm sorry to have confused you with my analogy. I suppose I was making somewhat of a quantum leap here. You were talking about God healing his children, and you later clarified this by explaining that his children are the ones who who are playing his game and following his rules. Those who are not following his rules are impure, and your God doesn't stain himself with impurity.

I took that a bit farther and suggested, using the same logic, that if my son doesn't follow my rules, then I shouldn't take him to a doctor to be healed (following the example of your God). My point being that a mature and loving parent does take care of their child regardless of whether or not he's broken the rules. Discipline can come later - a parent should take care of their child when sick or hurt. Your God simply disowns his children when they are disobedient. How touching!

------------------
www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Searcher,

The answer was in direct correlation to the question posted by Flash below. It dealt with the selectivity of whom God makes Himself known to. There was nothing medical about it in my estimation. Such was my return.

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR><FONT SIZE="1">His children...you mean the ones who follow him? How is it if one does not believe that he would make himself known? There are some out here on this board who are searching for truth..if God/Jesus was the only way to truth..then why have they not made themselves known? Why is your God so selective in whom he chooses?<FONT><HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR><FONT SIZE="1">I'm sorry to have confused you with my analogy. I suppose I was making somewhat of a quantum leap here. You were talking about God healing his children, and you later clarified this by explaining that his children are the ones who who are playing his game and following his rules. Those who are not following his rules are impure, and your God doesn't stain himself with impurity.</FONT><HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

O.K., that works for me. I think you have that part well enough to get by.

Your question:

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR><FONT SIZE="1">So if my son gets sick, but he hasn't been a good boy, I shouldn't take him to the doctor because he didn't follow my rules? Is that how a loving (did I mention mature?) parent takes care of his/her children? </FONT><HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR><FONT SIZE="1">I took that a bit farther and suggested, using the same logic, that if my son doesn't follow my rules, then I shouldn't take him to a doctor to be healed (following the example of your God). My point being that a mature and loving parent does take care of their child regardless of whether or not he's broken the rules. Discipline can come later - a parent should take care of their child when sick or hurt. Your God simply disowns his children when they are disobedient. How touching!</FONT><HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

Here's where you lose it. Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to take blood even when it is clear that death is imminent. Does that have any baring on the caring of the doctors? Not at all. They will respect the person's free will though in pain from having to watch the person die. Likewise, if you have a child that is out in the world living on his own and he becomes hooked on drugs, no matter how many times he comes within an inch of death, because of his habit, you can't force him to change. Moreover, if you take responsibility for the other aspects of his life, like where he'll live and get food from, he'll never get the help he needs. Proverbs 26:11 <FONT COLOR="BLUE">As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.</FONT> Proverbs also tells us that if you rescue a man who has not paid the price, you will have to rescue him again. Is it the uncaring parent that will let the child face their own choices? Do your children have dominion in your house? Do they tell you what they will and will not have? There is no choice for those not mature enough to make one. God does not hold them accountable. Likewise, in the example of the drug addict, there is one with choice. His choice may well take him to his death. Yet, the good parent, all the while calling him away from the wrong choice, will respect his free will to choose to go the other way. That parent will grieve no less in the child's death. God will grieve more! He has lost a child for eternity. I also suggest that you read the posts under the string "I belive".

truestory,

Wise as ever Sister!

Jesus can bring peace in every area of your life,
ISDAMan

<FONT SIZE="1">Excerpted from The Complete Multimedia BibleKing James Version

Copyright (c) 1994 Compton's NewMedia, Inc.</FONT>

[This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited December 23, 1999).]

ISDAMan,

I can partially agree with what you're saying. The image I have of your God is a rather harsh one, though.

No, my children don't have dominion in my house. Actually, one of my children has already moved out, and the other one will most likely move out once he graduates high school (in June). I love both of my children, regardless of the mistakes they've made (and they've both made plenty), or their rebellion against us (which they all grow out of before it's over). When my oldest son calls me on the phone, I don't hang up on him because he has disappointed me. When he got himself into trouble, my husband travelled the 1400 miles each way to get him and bring him back home (but not before he had paid the price for his mistakes, as you mentioned). But he isn't in bondage to us the rest of his life because we helped him. We won't disown him if he doesn't make all the choices we want him to make. I may have brought him into this world, but the gift of life I gave him freely - no strings attached. I will not cast him into a fiery pit or the outer darkness if he doesn't do what I want him to do! And if I found one of my children in a coma due to an overdose of drugs, for example, I wouldn't shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh well - it's too bad he didn't listen to me", and then walk away leaving him to die!

It seems to me your God is a bit too harsh and unforgiving. That's what I'm having a problem with. It doesn't give me that warm, fuzzy feeling to think of spending eternity worshipping a being who has no feelings of love or mercy in his soul.

------------------
www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

I agree with Searcher. ISDA, your god does seem harsh..and it is beyond me why you and others cannot see this.
This reminds me so much of a grade school
shi*... do as I want you to do or I won't be your friend...you won't be on MY TEAM..ect..

ISDAMan, I ask you this. What if someone came up to you and said that there was a spirit who is ALL loving- that what their concern is for truth to be revealed to you so you can grow and advance...this spirit did not request/demand praise or worship...no ego attached to this spirit...
would you consider searching this out further?

Hay Flash,

What happened? Have you become a professional henchmen in my absence? I seem to see a lot of I agree with this person and I agree with that person. I'm just use to taking your blows. I miss 'em. Come on out with a zinger for old times sake. ;)

To answer you question, why would I take up with the devil? Those are his same old lines he pumps into things like new age and self seaking. No worship = no focus. If you live, you can't escape worship. You are part of some kind of religion. Even Boris had to admit that.

In the twinkle of and eye,...
ISDAMan

[This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited December 24, 1999).]

ISDAMan,
The devil????? LOL yeah, yeah, yeah...
Being open to the Spirit of Truth
brings about focus IF one is willing to reflect and receive the truth. There is nothing evil about that.
The "I want...I need...I require..praise and
worship...tell me how great of a "god" I am
equals ego. It just can't get any clearer
than that now...can it?!?!?!?!?

Flash -

I'm with you here, too buddy.

ISDAMan - Satan belongs to the Christian pantheon. Perhaps this is news to you, but that's not all there is to it. There are several other pantheons of Gods and Goddesses that leave Satan out of it. I for one do not believe in your God, therefore I do not believe in your Satan. I cannot worship a being that I do not believe exists. YOU believe in Satan, not I.

Even dictionaries are clear on this:

There is a difference between God (with a capital "G") and a god or goddess (with a lowercase "g") in that the first (big "G") cannot be made plural while god or goddess (little "g") can be made plural.

In the case of God (big "G"), there is only "one", defined as "the" perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator (singular only) and "the" ruler of the universe (again, only one).

Those referred to as gods and goddesses are beings of supernatural powers or attributes believed in and worshipped by people; especially those thought to control some "part" of nature or reality or to personify some force or activity. They are those who are worshipped and idealized as "a" god (not "the" God).

We have been given a free will by God (big "G"), to either accept or reject God. However, God (big "G") is "the" God of us ALL, and it is God who has taught us that Satan does, in fact, exist.

Perhaps some, because they deny God, prefer to call Satan by another name... evil...??? It does not negate the fact that such an entity, spirit or energy exists in the world.


[This message has been edited by truestory (edited December 27, 1999).]

TS,
Well...if one would be open and clear their mind...the Spirit of Truth would be very real to them. Also, I've said it a hundred
times..truth is truth..no matter where the source comes from..be it a god or goddess..

Yes, Flash,

I have heard you say that many times... I find it interesting that you continue to go around criticizing others here (four months since I first came on board) and purporting to have found the truth, yet, you are still not ready to share your truth with us.

Do you believe your truth to be too difficult for us to understand? Or, have you bought into something that you do not yet really understand yourself and can't explain? Are you afraid that others might mock you? Is there a "revelation" date set or something? Are you waiting for a leader to give you the go-ahead to reveal your truth?

I am really curious, and to tell you the truth, I, for one, would rather not continue in such a one-sided debate. How about you?

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited December 28, 1999).]

True'-

Going back a bit to the capital vs. lowercase 'g':

My dictionary must be of a different edition than yours. Regarding "God" (capitalized), it says "in monotheistic religions..." then finishes up with something similar to your definition (the creator, the all-knowing, etc). I think that modifier is important.

I address my dieties sometimes, and when I do I call them by a variety of names. Sometimes it is simply "God and Goddess", in which case I am using "god" and "goddess" as names, in which case they should be capitalized. Other times I may address them as "god of the Sun and goddess of the Moon", at those times I am using "god" and "goddess" as descriptions, in which case they should not be capitalized.

My interpretation is that your Christian god, when being addressed as "God", that word is being used as a name. He is A god, to be addressed as God. At least that's the way I percieve it. You see him as THE god, but I don't see it that way.

Did I explain that clearly? I don't feel very sharp this morning, so I hope you can understand me today. ;)

TS,

Do you believe your truth to be too difficult for us to understand?

No, not difficult to understand. One must have an open mind though..do away with all thoughts that would hinder one from being open.


Or, have you bought into something that you do not yet really understand yourself and can't explain?

No, no, no, no, no...


Are you afraid that others might mock you? Is there a "revelation" date set or something?

Afraid??? Naw, not me. Do I think they will? Some...especially christians..but, I guess Lori tends to think everyone will for the most part. However, Searcher and Skye
might be a different story ;)


I am really curious, and to tell you the truth, I, for one, would rather not continue in such a one-sided debate. How about you?

Well TS, I wouldn't even know where or how to begin. There is A LOT to it. It's not that I am trying to avoid answering you..I just do not know where to begin. Make sense?




[This message has been edited by Flash (edited December 28, 1999).]

Well, Flash, if you don't know where to begin, then it sounds to me as if you might be lost. ???

By the way, I might disagree with you or ask questions, but I would not mock you in the process.

No, I'm not lost ...really I am not. I know it may appear to be that way...but what you have to realize is this has all happened over a period of time- so there is A LOT to it.
BTW.. I appreciate that comment..let me add though..Lori hasn't mocked me either... I just know how a lot of christians get.

Yes, Flash, I know how a lot of Christians get mocked, too!

Skye,

What I am understanding is that you seem to be trying to turn gods and goddesses into something which they are not.

While this might bring you some comfort while here on earth, it will do nothing for your eternal salvation with God.

God (big "G") is "the" God, not "a" Christian God. The gods and goddesses which you choose to believe in are personified through genders. However, God is not a male or a female, God is "the" God of us ALL, whether we choose to deny God or not.

That God is "the" God of us ALL is a fact of life which we might choose to deny but a reality which we cannot change.

Peace be with you!

well...ouch ;) You got me there, TS.
I know I have got carried away at times...and it's not that I am really mad at
anyone...I just..well, to be honest..christianity leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...the whole thing really just
gets my blood boiling.
I'll try to watch myself next time ;)

Flash,

Thanks, BUT... I did not mean to sting you!

To be clear, I was not referring to you?! It happens quite often, but I certainly don't spend any time keeping tabs on who has mocked me because I am a Christian...

There wouldn't be a book big enough to hold all the names... LOL!!!

TS,
Ok...I have to respond to what you wrote to
Skye.
You say you have had your experiences in knowing that your God is The only one..ect...
What about others who have had experiences that state otherwise? What if through theirs they have learned your God doesn't exist..not to mention his "son"? Now, who is right?

Flash,


You say you have had your experiences in knowing that your God is The only one..ect...
What about others who have had experiences that state otherwise? What if through theirs they have learned your God doesn't exist..not to mention his "son"?

I'm not quite sure where you are coming from and I will need more information in order to respond, so...

Can you give me an example of an experience which someone has had which taught them that God does not exist, please?

Flash,

No - I'd never mock you. But I don't think you should be pressured into sharing something you don't want to share at this time, for whatever reason. If and when you decide you'd like to share it, there are those of us who'd love to hear it, and who wouldn't mock you.

------------------
www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

TS,
I was just giving an example... ok, let's go this route... what makes you think that the god/goddess ect... are not real? What of the wiccan experiences..(Skye, help me out here if you can :) )
are you trying to imply that they are not real?

Searcher,
Hey..I really appreciate that. That means a lot..really does ;)

Flash,

I think you've got it backwards... I have never denied the existence of certain forces of nature which Skye personifies as gods and goddesses.

Skye is the one who is denying the existence of God.

I am still waiting for:


...an example of an experience which someone has had which taught them that God does not exist, please?

No pressure.

True, Flash,

Okay, let me say a bit...

True, you are close, but I'm not actually denying the existance of your God. I do have to say "your God" because as I have explained, my god is also referred to by that name. Read any Wiccan text, you will see that there as well. (Capitalized)

What I am denying is that your God, the Christian God, is what he is percieved to be by the Christian faith. I don't believe he is THE god, the ONLY god. I think he is one of many, but for some reason the monotheistic religions ignore the rest of them. YOU belive he is the only god, I don't.

Maybe it'll help if I explain my perceptions of dieties a little better?

The God & Goddess are but personifications of the two polar opposites of the "All" (for lack of a better term), the male and female. I believe this force, the All, is a non-thinking, non aware force. Like gravity, magnatism, etc. No personality, no thought, just pure power. Us humans can't deal very well with such a non-tangible, indescribable thing. So we personify it, and divide it in half, to reflect what we are familiar with. It is reinforced, over and over and over, generation after generation, which is the origin of the God & Goddess. This isn't a strictly Wiccan belief, I might add, this is my own understanding of the universe. The God and Goddess are like buckets of power. They are powerful symbols, and the do exist, but they are not human in nature, they are energy. This is the same energy that makes up our souls. By invoking the Goddess in a ritual, I am dipping my spoon into that bucket of power. It doesn't matter if I call Her Diana, or Goddess, or Mother Nature, it is the intent of my spell that makes the difference, not the name I call that bucket. That doesn't mean that's the only bucket! The Christians see one sexless God. So they create a bucket and put all that energy into it, and call that bucket Lord, God, etc.

Flash,

<CENTER><TABLE><TR><TD WIDTH="500"><FONT SIZE="1">QUOTE:
<HR><FONT SIZE="1">ISDAMan,
The devil????? LOL yeah, yeah, yeah... Being open to the Spirit of Truth brings about focus IF one is willing to reflect and receive the truth. There is nothing evil about that. The "I want...I need...I require..praise and worship...tell me how great of a "god" I am equals ego. It just can't get any clearer than that now...can it?!?!?!?!? </FONT><HR></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE></CENTER>

Your view would advocate a person gazing out to spend all of his time staring at a single plop of doo doo in a field full of God's beautiful flowers. Why bother with the refuse of man when there's Perfection calling out to you?

Be still and know that He is God
ISDAMan

TS,
Perhaps I will...maybe soon.. I'll get back to ya on it ;)

ISDAMan,


Your view would advocate a person gazing out to spend all of his time staring at a single plop of doo doo in a field full of God's beautiful flowers

huh???? LMAO... The only plop of doo doo
is the one you are buying into..oops..did I say that? ;)

I HAVE found perfection... YOU may not see it that way..but this is only due to the limitations you have set for yourself

Flash,

Where have you found perfection?

Perhaps the only perfection is to be found in imperfection, for perfection can breed stagnation, as all progress halts. An imperfect world is forever attempting to perfect itself, while a perfect world has nothing to do. As perfection lapses into decay, improvements are needed and it becomes imperfect again and begins the cycle anew. I prefer the world perfectly imperfect.

TS,
The Spirit of Truth

TS,
Ok...I was taught that he didn't.. and I
believe the Spirit of Truth

Flash,

Sorry... I'm not quite sure that I follow?

TS,
This...


experience which someone has had which taught them that God does not exist, please?