View Full Version : Star Trek: Nemesis
12-15-02, 09:58 AM
Well yesterday I saw Star Trek Movies. I'll give you my opinion on the film first, then I'll go into the plot.
In a word, the movie was awesome.
Character developments were solid (for a trek film), some of the camera shots were very cool--but a great deal of them weren't very extraordinary. The acting also seemed solid, as did the script, for the most part, except for the beginning, which is kind of slow.
Anyhoo, on to the plot (this includes spoilers and the ending, so don't read it unless you have already seen the movie or are a loser).
On Romulus, the Romulans' homeworld (duh) the senate conveins to talk about a new Reman leader named Shinzon. The Remans have been a caste in Romulan society looked down upon, and they soon decide to ignore him because of prejudice, I think...
Anyhoo, this hot romulan chick leaves a bomb thingy in the chamber and they all die.
Then we join Captain Picard in Alaska as he weds Riker and Troi together, yes it is all very happy, Worf gets drunk, Data sings a song. But en route to the honeymoon on Betazed for a honeymoon the Enterprise encounters a weak positronic signal from the Kolaran system. They check it out and start driving a funky dune buggy around. They soon discover that pieces of a data-like android are scattered all over the place. But then, as they pick up the last piece, these guys in OTHER dune buggies start shooting at them, so they have to drive away. The escape is pretty damn cool.
After this a mystery with Shinzon unravels, a lot of the plot goes into the middle of the movie, where we see people just talking and figuring stuff out. Captain Picard is abducted, then he is rescued by Data and the Enterprise flees from Romulus, where they were summoned by Shinzon (Picard's clone). Shinzon chases them to a nebula where the Enterprise finds itself out of contact with the fleet racing to save them, so they have to fight Shinzon with the hot Romulan chick, although her ship is nearly destroyed. The Enterprise empties out its weapons onto Shinzon's ship but they are ineffective, and so Picard rams the Scimitar (shinzon's vessel) and hurts it baaaaaaaaaad. Then he pulls back and tries to destroy the enterprise, but cannot, so he just sits there watching Shinzon, who is dying of a genetic disease and who needs Picard's blood.
So for some reason Picard decides to go to the other ship and start wreaking havoc, then data goes after him, but since the transporters are down he has to jump out of the enterprise itself, and this scene is extremely cool because when he flies through space (in one shot) he looks like superman. Very funny.
Also, when Geordi beams Picard out his console explodes, and I thought it would have been funny for him to shout: "aaaah I can't see!"
Yeah, so Picard kills Shinzon in a sort-of LOTR esque death scene, and Data sacrificies himself to save Picard and the Enterprise.
I didn't hint upon a great deal of other plot details in the movie, there was a hellofa lotta nerdy trek content, which was nice. I say: see this movie. You shall have a fun time;)
12-15-02, 01:42 PM
You've been watching too much Saving Private Ryan.
Tango and Cash actually
And Nemesis sounds like a shitty, shitty film :mad:
12-15-02, 06:03 PM
I didnt read your entire post pollux, looked like it had to many spoilers. I did read where you said it was awesome, well il be the judge of that. Im going to go see it tonight, il tell yall what I think.
BTW, what did yall think of Solaris?
This film sounds to me like it will dissapoint me as a Star Trek fan.
It seems like the producers have intervined at some stage and said 'We want this to appeal to a younger audience' so they added as many cliches and explosions as possible.
And the Riker and Troi wedding, puh-lease!! They don't really like each other that much. It hasn't really been developed enough in the show.
Dune Buggies? Come on, what is this, 1994? Dune Buggies, I'm still trying to fathom why people in the future who have this kind of techbase would need Dune Buggies. Maybe the writers were watching Mad Max and thought 'Hey, this is set in the future, lets have Dune Buggies. All the teens are raving about them. Lets make Star Trek cool!!' I think not
And Picard's clone, what the drokk were they thinking!!
It seems they've tried to make it appeal to a more youthful audience (ie Pollux :p ) and use the Star Trek name to ship it
12-16-02, 01:13 PM
I agree with the FUBAR statement. I saw it on Fri, and man, it stunk. I thought it was the second worst Star Trek film that I have ever seen. WT heck did they build the Scimitar out of, paper machie? It was how much bigger than the Enterprise, yet when the Enterprise rammed it, it came apart!! sigh. I'm too lazy to type out my oher complaints, but I thought it bit the big one.
I'm gonna fathom a guess and say that the other sucky Star Trek movie was 'The Motion Picture' cos man that stunk so much, manure was seeping out of the TV
12-16-02, 01:43 PM
I havent seen it yet! The theater where I was going to see it was closed:mad: . SO yeah Im mad. What Im hearing is not good, everyone except pollux hates this movie so far... And pollux likes that movie signs, hmmm....
And he likes LoTR so I'm not trusting his judgment
12-16-02, 03:25 PM
Guys, I can't convinve you to change your opinions. But the movie rocked. It was awesome. I'd rank it among the top trek films, seriously. Counsler, hopefully you will enjoy it...it appears as if I'm going to need some backup here.
But let me note that the Enterprise was crippled when it rammed the Scimitar, and that when it "withdrew" it was really fucked up. I mean, it was really fucked up. I thought they were going to blow the beast away and get a new ship again once that happened, and I was saddened at the thought because the Enterprise E is so fricken cool!
12-16-02, 08:25 PM
Argh! Pollux, warn me before you give away plot ino!:mad:
I think Im going to like it. It only made 18.8 million this weekend:( Meaning we might never see another trek movie.
12-16-02, 08:51 PM
Meaning we might never see another trek movie
Meaning we might never see another trek movie
Good, best quit while they're ahead. We don't want them ruining the franchise
12-17-02, 07:32 AM
True. They'll probably make another one in ten years or so...but for now we're in the dark.
Maybe something good will happen. Maybe a Stargate film about the Gou'ald invasion of Earth. You know that would be sweet!!
12-17-02, 08:33 PM
They would have to pay me to see that movie, Thor. Well, maybe if JLO played the part of Carter... hehe.:p
I saw the movie (Nemesis) on a wide screen but was disappointed in the sense that one can not watch the DVD (when it comes out) too many times like I did with the "Voyage Home".
The CGIs are awesome though. May be it is a movie about CGIs more so like the very first movie with a small streched out plot to show case the graphics.
Atleast they could have had the drydock scene like the one they showed in the Archer version Enterprise. May be it was too much to ask!
More and more I went to the ST movies to see primarily the graphics, not the story. This time, I'm not even driven to go see it for that reason. Thank goodness for LOTR, which I'm seeing tomorrow. :)
Both ST and SW have burnt themselves out...I'm hoping that the Matrix movies aren't rehashing of the original, which was great completely because it was different.
The problem is, while Star Trek is supposed to be human imagination - yet they are stuck with the old crew and old ship, a science vessel always doing battle with the evil doers.
A federation does not have a high powered battle carrier, no fighter planes, no automated computer systems...it is un-natural and no longer makes a good story specifically after Star Wars.
12-18-02, 07:45 AM
Well in their defense the feds got their asses kicked in Nemesis. And the visuals were awesome.
I saw the movie and really liked it too. In fact i was in a daze afterwards for a few hours. It was the best Star Trek movie i've seen, and i would even put it in my top category of favorite Star Trek episodes, along with others such as most Q episodes and when Picard played the flute. I would give Nemesis a 9/10 -- there were a few illogical things that i noticed, though they didn't detract from my overall enjoyment of the movie.
Like after the Enterprise had rammed into the other ship, and the other ship backed away. Given the nature of things in outer space, i would think that the other ship would have simply pulled the Enterprise along with it instead of ripping apart from it as if the Enterprise was somehow being held in place by something.
Or how Riker yelled "Cover me!" to Worf and immediately ran straight out into the open and jumped into the hole after the telepathic alien dude, that seemed kinda hokey to me, a stupid foolish risk made to look cool. I can see Riker doing something that foolish but i think he should have taken a phaser blast for it as he ran towards the hole. :D LOL
As always i'm amazed at how bad the enemy foot soldiers are at aiming their weapons. :D These are the soldiers that were referred to as terrifying and formidable when the Enterprise senior staff were sitting around their conference table discussing them. And yet they fire and hit the ceiling and floor more times than not at point blank range. This goes for stormtroopers in the Star Wars movies as well as in Star Trek.
There was something else too that isn't coming to mind at the moment. Maybe it was how quickly Data was able to get the cargo bay door open on the alien ship, considering the no doubt astronomical mathematical odds of him entering the right combination of glyphs within that brief period of time.
But again, overall, i thought the movie was fuckin' awesome. I came away from it thinking, "Now THAT'S the way a Star Trek movie ought to be..."
Patrick Stewart said Tuesday that whether or not Paramount decides to produce another Star Trek movie, he will not return as Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Speaking to reporters at the London premiere of Star Trek: Nemesis Tuesday night, Stewart said, "You never want to outstay your welcome. Just like an athlete, it's horrible to go on when the best is over." Although the Nemesis episode opened to mixed reviews, Stewart maintained that it was the best Star Trek movie he had ever done. "I could think of no better way to bow out," he said.
12-21-02, 10:25 AM
Lykan you wouldnt happen to have an article link for that would you? I trust what your saying is the truth, I just want to read it for myself.
The dune buggies part did seem a little far-fetched to me. Unless they were aware of many details regarding the prevailing society on the planet and created it to try and blend in so that if they were seen by the inhabitants while they were moving around on the planet, their culture wouldn't be affected by seeing a spaceship flying around. (Prime Directive and all...)
:eek: good? :eek:
man, that warf belly-flop that they called cover was priceless. and spiner looks gross now. haha, and they found pieces of B4 with the dune buggies, haha, they just collected all 6 parts. haha.
Do androids eat cheesecake? 'cause I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with the whole "gross" statement. Is there some logical reason that he would recieve additional chins in an upgrade? Anyway, the movie was doubleplus ungood. I think a DS9 movie is overdue, but they should leave the whole franchise alone if they're gonna make tripe like THIS.
Pollux just likes movies with bright lights and pretty colors.
Thor likes brown.
Good movie, the special effects were extremely good. I'd buy it just for that.
The tone and music invoked a more sinister theme than other ST movies.
The storyline was about clones and how they are very different - Picard, and then Data. Sounds like the producers were trying to make a pro-cloning political statement.
01-01-03, 07:53 PM
Music~wise, Wrath of Khan, Generations and First Contact had the best, IMO.
Ahhh I think the best music from a sci-fi movie is from Android (1982).
It looked fanfiction, considering all the tired plot devices and recycling of previous Star Trek material. Not quite as bad as I, V or First Contact (at least it didn't have hippie drunks or religious maniacs and wasn't quite as slow as TMP), but close.
It gave me some good fodder to beat up on for the film class I'm in, though. I like to recycle, so I'll just copy and paste that in here:
Star Trek: Nemesis is an exceptionally mediocre film. It excels at nothing in particular other than blandness, and seems more like a remix of elements of earlier Star Trek films rather than anything original.
Suspension of disbelief has limits, and this film shoots past them at warp 9. It begins with a rather oddly humorous scene that sets the tone: the entire Romulan Senate turns to stone and then cracks into dust on the floor (in slow motion, naturally) due to some green light, later revealed to be a new type of radiation. Never has it been more unintentionally comical to see an entire government assassinated. This happens with no real introduction to motives and certainly without giving the audience reason to care... it simply comes off as over-dramatized and uninteresting, inserted as a halfhearted attempt to explain later events.
On the Enterprise, pieces of a deactivated android in a distant solar system set off an audible alarm on the bridge. It's quite odd how positronic signatures never did that before even at close range... never was the Enterprise able to locate Lore from a distance by any such method, and yet now a positronic signature in another solar system sets off an alarm simply because the writer (if there actually was one) couldn't be bothered to think of a reasonable way to bring the ship to that planet. The next blatant plot device is an ion storm, which conveniently lingers just close enough that they must send a shuttle down to a planet rather than use transporters, and just close enough that scanners are interfered with enough to not be able to precisely locate the positronic signature (which had been so easily noticed light years away). Simply because somebody wanted to film it, they roll an open-air jeep-like vehicle out and drive around recklessly. Somehow, in the 24th century it's supposed to make sense to leave the very comfortable and maneuverable and safe shuttle behind in order to drive around in a heavily armed jeep that might be out of the 1940s (excepting the phasors). Of course the audience knows that this is all just for the sake of making sure they're out in the open so that natives in tanks can appear and begin shooting at them... which is in turn so that the director can show them driving over a cliff (in slow motion, naturally) to just barely land their truck in the hovering shuttle. All this time, it's unclear where the film has gone or if anyone remembered that there was supposed to be one.
Later on, yet more plot devices appear. Most notable is the invention of the magic transporter pin. Conveniently there's only one of these, as though Data couldn't carry two or three, especially when he knows he's going to rescue someone. Also conveniently, it has the curious ability to function even when the transporter has just minutes earlier been very clearly established as offline. Although perhaps excusable as a device most every action movie resorts to, the Remans must inexplicably leave Picard alone with only one guard just long enough for him to escape. The way in which Picard was cloned to make Shinzon, the choice of Picard as somehow the most key person in the Federation to want to clone, and the way in which a clone of a human would become the leader of the Remans, is all left unexplained for the simple reason that there is no reasonable explanation. The worst spot, however, may be the scene where Troi locates a cloaked ship via telepathy -- this is highly overdramatized, with errie music and rectangular lighting focused on her eyes completing the unintentionally comic moment which looks as though it came from an old episode of "In Search Of...".
The acting has one minor bright spot, that being Tom Hardy as Praetor Shinzon. The villainous part is portrayed very well, with a sense of complexity behind the lines. For the rest of the cast, early on the dialog seems forced and unnatural (though perhaps the writer is more to blame than the actors). Later there isn't as much dialog, as it gives way to explosions and shooting, which is by then a welcome relief from having to listen to them read such pathetic lines. As Picard, Patrick Stewart seems to be either flat and disinterested, or oddly cheerful at the wrong times. No longer the reserved, diplomatic commander, he seems playful and reckless. As he prepares to ram his ship and perhaps see many in his crew die, he smiles while talking to Shinzon, as though he gains so much fun from preparing to do something his clone doesn't expect that he can be genuinely cheerful as his crew faces possible death. The sense here is that the characters don't take the danger seriously, Picard and Data especially acting as though they might turn around and say "oh, don't worry, it's just a movie", and so it becomes impossible for the audience to take their danger seriously either. When Data is killed off at the end, it's oddly incapable of bringing forth any real emotion... there's no real lead up to it or indication of a fatal choice being pondered, so it has no particular impact.
Overall, "Star Trek: Nemesis" seems to be a weakly contrived excuse to blow things up. Special effects are where most of the budget seems to have gone, but while they show detail and financial commitment the effects are often strangely out of place and distracting. The effect at the beginning of the film of Romulans breaking into dust on the floor of the senate is clearly intended to evoke horror, but accomplishes only mild amusement. The choice of a neon green glow with swirls in it to be the deadly radiation which threatens the universe is also odd, as it looks more like an interesting kind of light than like anything threatening. The film throws together elements from previous films, notably making Data replay Spock's exact role from Star Trek II and making Shinzon's whole situation a direct copy of Khan, and nothing in the script (written by long-time fan John Logan) seems particularly original or creative. This is nothing more than a rehash of familiar ground, presented less effectively than ever.
A simple one word will suffice - Crap
01-29-03, 07:20 PM
I liked it :mad: hmmmmph. I do agree with Patrick Stewart, though, in wanting it to be the last because it was so good. Yes, good!!!! It was corny, but I like the corniness. That is one of the reasons I like sci-fi, it is silly and FUN. So there :D
Oh, wait, I had a question. Where the hell did Shinzon come from? Why did he exist? (Besides giving Picard his existential confusion moments.) I would really have liked some explanation for his existence. I guess I must read the movie book to find out.
I guess they can fool some of the people some of the time....:D
01-29-03, 07:44 PM
We might never see another trek movie.Obviously this was "goodbye" from the entire Next Generation universe. Main characters getting married, getting killed, getting promoted and getting passed over for promotion. (How did Janeway get to be an admiral before Picard?) Wesley showing up for a non-speaking cameo. Guinan tending bar. Janeway in a teleconference. Peace with the Romulans.
This was clearly the end of the entire TNG-DS9-Voyager story line. No, it was not Great Cinema. It was just a double-episode of TNG. We'll reminisce with Captain Archer for a few seasons, back in the days before the Cardassians and the Borg, before the war with the Klingons hit a ten-digit body count. (Or was that in an alternate history? I'm not sure.) But eventually we'll have to move forward to another generation that has new problems and new enemies. Hopefully not as dismal as Rodenberry's other visions, EFC and Andromeda. Great shows but very depressing!
We were saying goodbye to our Virtual Family. A bittersweet moment. If it didn't touch you, ok. But TNG was one of my top three favorite TV shows of all time. ("Dinosaurs!" and "Farscape," if anybody cares.) Almost every episode touched on a Great Truth or some aspect of the Human Condition. That was TV As Literature. Ardra. A judge deciding whether Data was a person or Star Fleet property. The Romulans' Klingon penal colony.
It was one of the nicest things that's ever come along on the tube, and I'll miss it very much. I appreciated the formal goodbye.
02-10-03, 01:45 AM
Now I'm depressed.
02-10-03, 03:24 PM
*sniff sniff* It would totally suck if this was the last star trek movie, but then again, I can't see star trek without Data, because Data absolutely rocks, and definitely made the next generation awesome. However, they could always do another movie, not the search for Spock, but the search for Data.....
f^(ked up beyond all recognition
Fraggle Rocker - ditto.
02-15-03, 02:12 AM
not to be picky but doesnt this movie go AGAINST all good things?
i mean data is surposed to be a professer when picard is retired
02-15-03, 02:27 AM
This movie has more plot holes than Ishtar and Battlefield Earth combined to form a movie I call FieldIsh Earth TarBattle.
I wanted to love the movie. I really did. It was the first chance I had to see a Star Trek movie in the theater. So, suffice to say, my expectations were NOT high, since I would have watched Worf sing Klingon Opera (which would have made more sense anyway...), than see every law of physics (a certain ship crunching scene I will not mention...) thrown down the drain.
I wrote a ballad:
Sex Trek 2.0
Berman is evil,
this must be understood.
John Logan is bad
I thought he was good.
But he is not.
He's out of touch,
like an andorian on pot.
Star Trek is now Sex Trek,
like the 5th Wheel and Hustler,
and scripts written by weird authors
like Ann Rice and Clive Cussler.
I think it is time
Trek was put to rest,
for 5 or ten years,
Yes, that would be best.
Since Star Trek is just like,
the West Wing in outer space,
and toss in the show Cops,
Survivor and Will & Grace.
The best is all gone with Treks gone past,
the Great Bird of the Galaxy has to rest at last.
- J. Allen
Note. This Poem is copyrighted 2003, J. Allen...
also known as Starscape.
All reproduction is permissible with name attached. :)
02-15-03, 02:31 AM
i went in knowing that the E HAD to be salvagable and that cirtan people COULDNT die because they apeared in the future in all good things
now my father said that B5 becomes data and thats what picard was trying to do but if you stay true to the CARICTER of picard i cant see him dishonoring his friends memory by making a data clone
You also have Data's actor to consider. I've been told he's been trying to be killed off because he can't look young forever like an android would. If they used the opportunity of B4 to introduce a new actor...