So if the two universes collided and had to do battle with each other (I mean like Klingons, Borg, Feds vs New Republic, Imperials, Hapes Cluster, Hutts, Jedi, you get the idea...) who would emerge victorious? This is the type of conversation we all have as little children, so enjoy!

Hey, this is like Comic Book Battles. Well it depends on who was fighting who? Like if it was the Borg vs the Ewoks, it would be an easy fight for the Borg, but then if it was the Jedi vs Bajorans, then the Jedi would trounce them.
Have to think of some situations. Death Star Vs Borg Cube, Princess Leia Vs Captain Janeway. Darth Maul Vs Worf. X Wing vs Shuttlecraft etc etc.

This is the point where I should jump in and say, “dude, relax… it’s fiction…”

BUT ----

In the Star Trek, the Enterprise is a pretty poor warship. It looses most of the fights it gets in to, usually having to resort to diplomacy or techno-babble trickery in the end. And the Starfleet security officers regularly get beaten up by the alien of the week. Very few times has the Enterprise won a straight fight on the TV show. In the Star Wars universe, the Imperial Star Destroyer is a big mean effective killing machine. Not fancy, not subtle, but it blows stuff up really well. The rebels spend the first two movies running and hiding rather than face imperial fleet ships in a straight fight.

While you are using your phasers to knock out TIE's, I have set flank speed and am closing fast. Don't bore me with photon torpedoes. They are merely souped-up cruise missles that I should be able to knock down with my close quarter weapons designed to deal with small, fast-moving targets. One pissed off ISD with a surly commander is closing fast.

Seems to me it would be a battle between a fancy yacht with some neat weapons and an industrial strength can of whoop ass.

BUT ----

“dude, relax… it’s fiction…” :D


Peace.

Yeah, Strategy is important too. The Borg are really powerful but their strategy can be really poor when fighting starfleet officers, let alone fighting the Sith.

I think this subject might have been on here before, but what would happen if a borg cube came across the death star? The Borg only ever attack earth with 1 cube at a time, and even then they have only ever attacked earth directly a handful of times. Chances are they would detect the death star and treat it as an inferior space vehicle that could provide a few hapless drones. The Borg Cube drops out of trans warp to assimilate the Death Star, though Darth Vader and the Emperor happen to be onboard, and detect a disturbance in the force. The Borg transmit the usual "Resistance is futile", by which time, the Death Star's superlaser is powered up and ready to blow.
I've never seen the Borg attempt to evade firepower, they usually just stand in the way and let themselves get shot until they can adapt to the frequency, so the Borg cruise towards the Death Star, they detect an energy surge, and Boom! they've been blown out of the sky.

Unfortunately they managed to beam a couple of Drones onboard, which start to assimilate a few stormtroopers. Vader and Palpatine detect their presence and personally dispose of the few drones with some force power (which the Borg cant repel) and perhaps their lightsabers. Now I'll let everyone else make up the rest. Do Vader and Palpatine dispose of the Borg drones and send the dead bodies off to coruscant to be studied by their scientists, or would the Borg gradually assimilate the entire Death Star? Perhaps Vader and Palpatine would activate the self destruct and bail out in a Star Destroyer, who knows

Rejoice, fellow nerds, our thread HAS ARRIVED!! We have to wait for cactus to get here, whenever he does, he's definitely going to say Star Trek. Cactus if you're listening make sure you put up a damn good fight!

Anyway I was talking about EVERYONE from each universe coming together at one huge battle, everyone from every point in time, from the original Enterprise and the Phoenix to the Enterprise F and the big hulking klingon warships AS WELL as all three Death Stars (anyone ever read Darksaber?), the hundreds of thousands of imperial battleships, hapan battle dragons, the chu-unthor, calamari warships, ohhh there's just so much more to star wars, they have so many more numbers!!

But before I heard the argument that phasers were better than lasers (giggles), that the Enterprise E and D and F could just slice holes through the enemy warships. I voted for star wars I think for sheer numbers, I'm not sure but there really aren't supposed to be too many federation starships at any point in star trek history while the imperials at the height of their reign had hundreds of thousands of star destroyers. In one climactic battle star wars would emerge victorious!!

I would LOVE to see just the jedi take ANYONE

They would just kick ass

oh and i would just send A-wings and tie-defenders against the entiprise

they would NEVER hit them, to fast

star trek has no speed, only shields

starwars has BOTH

B\W

i would love to see the whole fed's vs the first death star

They would be dead:D

could you imagin riker polioting the x-wing insted of Skywalker?

the death star would just pick them off one after another:D

Then take earth to boot:D

PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!!!:mad:

Prepare for primary ingnition on that idiot in the tiny little space ship:D

On technology alone, Star Trek would kick arse. The SW tech is really rather backward and basic in this sort of genre. However, you must keep in mind that "The power to destroy planets is nothing compared tot he power of the Force" or whatever. The Force makes all the diference. :)

They have high med and sci tec but i have never seen ANYONE from startrek with the sort of pure destruction the empire has

If you read the books there is an indestructable fighter that can cause a star to go Nova

They have the Death Stars

That virse that is created to destroy all non humans on corisant

but come on they can blow up a PLANET

STARWARS would kick ass

Let's not forget the genesis device. Even tho' it did the opposite of what it was designed for it still fucked up a whole planet.

If I recall, you can get a couple of shots in on the Borg before they modify to repel your weapons. How many shots from the Death Star do you really think one of those cubes could take?

And Star Wars would win flat out. After disposing of the biggest threat--e.g. Borg--the Empire would have an advantage. Let's see the Enterprise knock down wave after wave of TIE fighter, or any large battleship get through the defenses of the Death Star.

Or, better yet, invite the Sith Lords and the Jedi to a peace conference on the Enterprise and then beam them all onto the Borg cube. Now that would be a fight.

No bargaining. Vader and Kenobi would have to stand back to back and settle everything else later.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Lets see the borg repel force lightning:D

You're right, but who voted for star trek??

They have not participated in the conversation-they are weaklings!!

They all got taken out by the empora:D

I really guess that I should argue for the trekkies, then. I think that even though swarms of TIE fighters would be attacking these gigantic ships you have to realize that the fighters have no shields and that usually the phasers on the enterprise or any ship never miss. They also could fire very quickly if they used low energy bursts, because as both you and I can agree asguard it doesn't take much to take down a TIE Fighter, or an Interceptor. The Defenders are a whole other matter entirely, for those of you who never played TIE Fighter these babies are really, really amazing craft capable of incredible maneuvers and bombing runs.

Plus even though the star wars universe has Sun Crushers you can't forget that Star Trek has Soran with his Trilithium and sun exploding equipment. It would be a fun battle to watch!!

but the jedi could kick ass

plus i don't think i have ever seen a star trek vessle fire BEHIND

The tie (or a-wings, x-wings) can get behind and destroy there warp core

Originally posted by Pollux V
...usually the phasers on the enterprise or any ship never miss.I wouldn't put too great a stock on your phasers, or even photon torpedoes. There appears to be some sort of inability to use them beyond visual range. Ships are always at grab-a-belt-loop-and-knife'em distances when they fight in the Star Trek universe. Sensors, too, appear to kick in shortly after a potential threat becomes visible.

The one thing that matters above all others is that the Star Destroyer is a purpose-built warship. It exists solely to whack the snot out of anything it can catch, and it's designed specifically to take severe damage and keep fighting. Imperials don't like limiting themselves to a fair fight, either. Imperial tactics would dictate multiple Star Destroyers, Victory-class Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes, and Interdictors (whose effectiveness might be debatable against Star Trek's drive system). The Enterprise, on the other hand, would be negotiating alone right up to the point that the first wave of empire fighters and bombers fired.

Star destroyers are also ready to be boarded - you could transport the entire yellow-shirt brigade to the SD's bridge, and I doubt that six half-interested stormtroopers would break a sweat blasting them to component atoms. Small unit tactics do not appear to exist in the Star Trek universe. There are no civilians aboard a Star Destroyer to get in the way, none of the holodecks, bars, and extravagant personal quarters that appear to be the whole of the Enterprise. ISDs are all muscle, where the Enterprise has a shocking amount of fat.

It all boils down to purpose - giving diplomats guns does not make them soldiers. They fight reluctantly, and their tactics are extravagantly clever rather than doctrinally sound. Veteran soldiers, even if their equipment is slightly inferior, will make short work of them.

BUT ----

“dude, relax… it’s fiction…” :D

Peace.

You're right, the enterprise isn't built for fighting, but I do believe that there are ships in the fed's fleet that could do this. You're forgetting the Klingons, though, they really are fighters, at least hand to hand wise, and we all know how terrible stormtrooper's aim is.

Plus if you've ever played Elite Force you'd know that voyager might stand a chance if they sent a guerilla boarding party.

Asguard the ships can fire behind, you know what the little phaser gun things look like? They're like lines on the ship, well they're all over the place, even on the tail of at least the enterprise D.

Plus we're forgetting the enterprise F's cloaking device, and that klingon warbird from ST 6 that can fire while cloaked. Ooooh.

Plus, in the X-wing games, there is an ion cannon that can disable a ships electronic equipment, add to that the space bomb and rocket which is capable of smashing a star destroyer to pieces. The B-wings were made as a heavy assault fighter designed to hyperspace in, and literally bomb an enemy starship. The Enterprise would be so big that they would be like mosquitos that could literally swarm over the ship. And if the Enterprise happens to have any exhaust ports.......:D

Allright, though I think as series they're evenly matched. If they fought person to person - Star Wars would win, by landslide, no other pssoble outcome. Only person who might scratch them is Worf.

As far as ships - Star Wars again, far more maneuverable, much more speed. Very simple.

Like I said landslide victory for the Star Wars crew.

could you imagin starfleet secruity Vs the jedi council:D

http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/starwars/starwars003.gifthey would be FUCKED:D http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/starwars/starwars008.gif

http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/starwars/starwars026.gif
http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/starwars/starwars023.gif

http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/waffen/waffen006.gif

in a whole universe vs. universe scenario star wars....
i mean have ever even seen anything resembling an army on star trek? and the entreprise has like 10,000 people on it most of them civilians, where as goofyfish said, the star destroyers are loaded with whities.
god even the rebels could take star trek..!
and the pre clone war jedi, ouch no contest!

Yeah, star wars would win. The borg are awsome but not awsome enough, there are overwhelming numbers, so it's decided. NOW: Who voted for star trek?? The weiners..

since we have deduced overwhelmingly that srat wars would win, and everyone seems to think so, then whoever voted star trek has either wussed out and gone with the majority, was just joking, or was possibly just supporting a bias that they have between the media giants..

But remember Romulans and Klingons use cloaking devices so im thinking the deathstar would have a hard time against them (romulan fleet materializes near death star vader almost has time to say "Oh shit" before it ends)

Borg: Death star would destroy the first one or two but after that the death star crew gets assimilated so the borg have it

Fighters: The things don't do shit unless they shoot where there already is a hole. Star Trek ships have shields no spots vulnerable enough for the fighters to have an effect.

Those Aliens with a number: They were in voyager cant remember what they were called but I think in a fight they wouyld take the people from star wars, cut off their heads, and then shove it up their asses.

A cloaking device would be useless against Vader's and Palpatines force abilities, they could easily sense the impending danger a light year away.Besides, cloaking devices exist within the Star Wars world (In the Empire Strikes Back, after the Millenium Falcon eludes a pursuing Star Destroyer, the imperial officers cosider the possibility the falcon may have cloaked itself.)


The Borg seemed intent on assimilating earth, yet they only attempted a small handful of times with about one cube at a time, I doubt they would really bother sending a number of cubes for the purpose of a single space vehicle like the Death Star.

The X-wing fighters are quite capable of inflicting alot of damage. Proton Torpedoes could chip away at the deflector shields in the Star Trek ships at various weak points, and literally swarm the ship. (And I wont even go into what the Tie Defenders and Interceptors are capable of). The fighters in Star Wars exploit weaknesses. A large starship is slow and has less maneuovarability, whereas the fighters could criss cross over the hull of the ship. Plus there is the B-wing fighters, which appear in Return Of the Jedi, as well as the Xwing games. They can be used as a heavy assault fighter, for the purpose of disabling Star Destroyers with a large amoury of Torpedo's and missiles.

The Aliens you are thinking of are 8472, but the writers of Star Trek ran out of ideas, so they stole the superlaser from the Death Star and implanted it in their bio-ships. The way the beam forms is pretty much identical to the Death Stars superwearpon, which demonstrates its capability of destroying a Borg vessel and/or planet

Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
A cloaking device would be useless against Vader's and Palpatines force abilities, they could easily sense the impending danger a light year away.Besides, cloaking devices exist within the Star Wars world (In the Empire Strikes Back, after the Millenium Falcon eludes a pursuing Star Destroyer, the imperial officers cosider the possibility the falcon may have cloaked itself.)
Yet Vader didn't sense thier presence while they were hidden away in the asteroid or attached to the ISD. Not to mention SW tech relies on gravity emmision to track cloaked ships and ST warp fields are stated to reduce mass.

Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
The Borg seemed intent on assimilating earth, yet they only attempted a small handful of times with about one cube at a time, I doubt they would really bother sending a number of cubes for the purpose of a single space vehicle like the Death Star.
Given that the Borg are stated to have millions of ships and in Voyager "Dark Frontier" the Borg used 3 or 4 to assimilate a planet well ...

Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
The X-wing fighters are quite capable of inflicting alot of damage. Proton Torpedoes could chip away at the deflector shields in the Star Trek ships at various weak points, and literally swarm the ship. (And I wont even go into what the Tie Defenders and Interceptors are capable of). The fighters in Star Wars exploit weaknesses. A large starship is slow and has less maneuovarability, whereas the fighters could criss cross over the hull of the ship. Plus there is the B-wing fighters, which appear in Return Of the Jedi, as well as the Xwing games. They can be used as a heavy assault fighter, for the purpose of disabling Star Destroyers with a large amoury of Torpedo's and missiles.
If they could get into range.

Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
The Aliens you are thinking of are 8472, but the writers of Star Trek ran out of ideas, so they stole the superlaser from the Death Star and implanted it in their bio-ships. The way the beam forms is pretty much identical to the Death Stars superwearpon, which demonstrates its capability of destroying a Borg vessel and/or planet
Really outside of a few super races who could?

Here is the single letter that guarentees that Star Wars can't win:

Q

I rest my case.

Intriguing point. The Q are about as close to gods as anything can get without being gods. I have to admit: I think the scifi forum has reached a pinnacle. This is the ultimate scifi discussion. Right here. FEEL THE ENERGY!! WOOOOOO!

Heres how i see it:

The Empire and the federation go through a long battle, almost resulting in a stalemate. The startrek universe is trying to make peace, and so is the empire. And just after one huge ass battle that resulted with both sides losing many ships and peace is about to be made, the borg sweep in and assimilate everyone.
Recistance Is Futile

I think that Darth Vader and the Borg Queen would get along good, because after that fight Vader is her bitch.

What exactly is the feds going to do without EARTH

Death star blows up earth

hyber jump

Death star blows up Vulcan

hyber jump

Death star blows up romulas

hyber jump

Death star blows up klingon homeworld

see a paten?

I dont think the deathstar could make it that far. See the Klingons would get really mad, and when a klingon gets mad boy are you in trouble. Plus the ST universe has transporters so the klingons/humans/vulcans (who are by the way only a small number of powerful species within the st universe) will just beam anywhere they want to on the deathstar.

Deathstar loses to a bunch of klingons, not to mention that the klingons would just start flying there ships into it sooner or later, have you ever seen a warp core explode? Really big boom...

so

the starwars people would just fly the sun crusher through ANY ship

Star Trek can't beem through shields
Star wars HAVE shields

Star wars can DODGE

and the death star was next to a PLANET when it blew up

a little ship isn't going to do any damage

You have to remember that the Death Star's only gun isn't the big huge one, it was built to fight capital ships (which lead to its demise, the laser cannons weren't geared for small fighters). Since Star Trek doesn't really ever use fighters (except for maybe the most recent movie with Data) this means that the Death Star would seriously kick some booty before it was destroyed. Remember, the Enterprise is too big to fly down one of those incy wincy exhaust shafts.

The Klingons could get pissed but against a moon-sized battlestation built for taking on huge fleets I really don't know. Methinks that once the Death Star did decimate all of the fleets it would just fly around and blow up the popular planets one by one. Tarkin would bring Picard up to the Death Star's bridge and say 'We have to demonstrate the power of this battlestation just one more time, or maybe three or four more times].

Not sure it works anymore

got to try it again:D

Oh just for postective

a super star duce rang into the death star and the death star didn't die

in star trek everyone has one fleet

In starwars the new reps have atleast TEN

in the return of the jedi there was a death star and at least 100 imp star duces

thats a shit load of fire power

It is, but I don't think anyone knows how many ships are in the Star Trek universe. Sometimes they make the series out to have a shitload of firepower and sometimes they don't. Does anyone have the exact numbers from a nerdy encyclopedia or somthing?

er

wouldn't the whole fleet have been fighting the borg for earth?

that wasn't very many ships compared to just the death star even without the imp stars

I haven't seen that scene in awhile, don't own First Contact :(

I do remember that there were a lot of ships though.

I would estermate there were 20 ships including those pissy little ones that a tie could take out

hahahha, you forget, the intention of this thread pits the borg as well as everyone else against all of star wars, the borg seriously kick ass even if they seem to lack any real battle strategy (move to planet->assimilate planet, regardless of defense). But there are a lot of borg, the fed's could just sit back and watch the battle.

see the way i look at it is that if the feds can beat them (or just hold them off) then they must be as good

so if you can wipe your ass with the fed then you can with everyone else

But they're the borg. Resistance is futile.

tell that to the sun crusher

it will just fly through EVERY cube then make there sun go Nova:D

That's a lot of suns to destroy. The Borg own like, half the galaxy. That has to account for something (plus doesn't the sun crusher use a finite ammo source?).

the sun crusher can get more misiles

and it could probably just crash into the planet if it ran out

this thing is indestructable

they could fire a death star at it without marking the paint

they droped it in a sun and it did nothing

Then they'd cut OFF the missile source (rolls up sleeves)

:p

Plus didn't Qwi Xux have a change of heart or something and blow it up? This would probably happen again when they went to war with star trek...

no they couldn't destroy it
they droped it in a sun

and if we are everything on everything its in the hands of that women (you know the intell girl, not mara the evil one who has that super star duce in coresont)

Admiral Daala.

You've failed me, asguard. You cannnot remember her name! I shall strike you down in the name of true nerdishness!!:D :D

WRONG


It is Isgard
think thats how its spelt (don't have the book here, the women who made the virse to kill all non-humans)

Croicky I know what you're talking about, I taught it was Daala who did that...not sure. The virus almost killed Mon Mothma, correct?

Why does everyone say that star wars has a manuverability advantage?

I agree they have the fighters but they won't help. The only reason fighters work well in Star Wars is because all the lasers are mounted on turrets which have to track the fighters. The phasers on the enterprize are mounted so that it can fire in damn near any direction without having to track the target. And do not even try to deny that the capitol ships in Star Wars are slow as shit and steer like a cow. Easy to prove that trek ships are faster in Star Wars Han Solo says the melininium falcon (the fastest ship ever built aparently) goes .5 over C (when the hyperdrive works, which means never) At low speeds a star trek ship travels multiple times C.

How big a deal is the force?

Heres what ive seen the force do:
choke people
pick up things
sense presnce of enemy (but not well enough to know their exact position)
mind control stupid people

It nice but Im not thinking this is a big deal.

Compare that to the super aliens in star Trek (mostly Q but there were quite a few others)

The Downfall Of Star Wars

Imperial engineering is so bad ("Hey Ive Got an idea lets build a superweapon that has near infinite destructive power but build a pathitcly obvious weakness and not try to defend it at all!")

Most obvious examples are the death star and the ship that controls the droid army from episode 1

no the thing that gets monmothma is not a virus its a poision

I am talking about stuff from the X-wing serise

kripton virus (didn't put the name up before because i know the spelling will be wrong)

actully the biggest force power is to know what your enermy will do so you can counter it and some jedi (sith really) can destroy RACES spread across the galixsy with only there minds

Originally posted by Asguard
actully the biggest force power is to know what your enermy will do so you can counter it and some jedi (sith really) can destroy RACES spread across the galixsy with only there minds

So when exactly did this happen?

when did which happen?

the killing races was mentioned in the book heir to the empire

the knowing what your enermy will do?
watch ANY of them, "he can see things before they happen, thats how he seems to have such quick reflexes" (quote from ep 1)

Easy to prove that trek ships are faster in Star Wars Han Solo says the melininium falcon (the fastest ship ever built aparently) goes .5 over C (when the hyperdrive works, which means never) At low speeds a star trek ship travels multiple times C.



Wrong. .5 is a rating given to hyperspace speed, like the Warp factor scale.

We've had this discussion before, Hyperspace gives Star Wars ships the ability to cross the galaxy in a relatively small amount of time, whereas the ships in Star Trek take years. There was an excellent website that discussed the superioty of Hyperdrive over Warp drive, the site has been change around, but I managed to get an excerpt from the previous thread



"x C LY/hour
Warp 1 1.00 0.000
Warp 2 10.00 0.001
Warp 3 39.00 0.004
Warp 4 102.00 0.012
Warp 5 214.00 0.024
Warp 6 392.00 0.045
Warp 7 656.00 0.075
Warp 8 1,024.00 0.117
Warp 9 1,516.00 0.173
Warp 9.2 1,649.00 0.188
Warp 9.5 1,882.40 0.215
Warp 9.6 1,909.29 0.218
Warp 9.9 3,052.95 0.348 (E-D's max)
Warp 9.975 5,754.23 0.656 (Voyager's max)

Transwarp is twenty times faster than Voyager (Voyager series), which puts it at about 11 light years per hour.

ST sub-space comms is 22.8 light-years per hour, or about twice as fast as transwarp, so they can still get advance warning of a Borg cube approaching.

Slower ships in SW, like twenty year old Victory-class destroyers, can make 127 light-years per hour (direct from "Dark Force Rising"). That is 200 times faster than Voyager, twenty times faster than sub-space communications, and ten times faster than transwarp.

In the movies, ships cover distances of 30,000 light years in a day or two, implying speeds of upto 10,000,000 times light-speed, or up to seven times faster than Victory-class destroyers."


I'm currently trying to find the new link to the site as it has been moved recently, but when I do I'll post it up

Originally posted by Pollux V
But they're the borg. Resistance is futile.
Resistance may be futile but firepower isn't! ;)

Originally posted by Asguard
when did which happen?

the killing races was mentioned in the book heir to the empire
Really, I recently reread it an didn't find any indication of that. :bugeye:

i will check agan but i am sure i rember him talking about the ability to wipe out life instently (or maybe it was in jedi knight, was reading it at the same time as playing the game so it might have been there)

since my baby left me
i found a new place to dwell....

......its down at the end of jabroni drive, the Smackdown Hotel.

Anypne else seen episode 2 yet? Star Wars would win because of Yoda, he is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!! Or little green creature, anyway he is deffinetely the best fighter.

yoda was awesome,
though i hated the fact that anikan repeatedly got his ass kicked, he is supposed to be awesome, but no he gets knackerd!
oh well im not that dissatisfied

THe only reason why Anakin got his ass handed to him was because Obi Wan kept holding him back. Anakin IS THE MAN! He kicked serious butt in that movie, and would of done so more harshly had Obi Wan not held him back.

Anakin would kill Yoda. I dont care if he can levitate an entire starship, Anakin would still whoop him!

NO WAY DUDE, seriously. Anakin was cool but Yoda was better. Even though I think in the third movie Anakin will be like a god....

Although he doesnt have the same ass kicking factor of Yoda and Anakin, Mace Windu is still pretty cool. Purple light sabers rule!

Yeah, didn't he take out like a couple million in pay just to have one?

And tell me this....didn't you think his robotic hand looked stupid in the end?

Yes it did. He should've had one like Luke's, at the end of ESB, they could've tested it for nostalgia-ish purposes.

The Millenium Falcon (the fastest ship in their galaxy) can go hyperspace (light speed) level 5. In the Star Trek the normal cruising speed of the Enterprise NCC 1701D in warp factor 5 (5 light speeds). The applicable maximum speed is at warp factor 9.9 for 10 minutes (the engine automatically shuts down). None of the ships in Star Wars can battle in hyperspace. When the Enterprise met the Borg (with the help of the god-like powers of "Q") the Enterprise fired their photon torpedo at the cube at warp factor 9 (possibly the cube can go faster with its transwarp capibilities). Although the Enterprise fail to destroy the Borg cube (self regeneration), I do not think any of the Star Wars ship have anything to match the speed of Star Trek's ships. Furthermore, I do not think that the Star Wars' technology can defend itself against the "Picard Manuver." A federation ship accelerates to warp speed and for an instant appears to be in two places simultaneously. The federation ship fires at the opponent who is fooled in thinking that the federation ship is in the same place (only if the opponent is using light speed sensor, oh yeah Star Wars ship can't fight in light speed).

Source: "The Star Trek Encyclopedia, A Reference Guide to the Future":D

:cool:

i haven't had a chance to read all the post but i have only one thing to say"Q"

John deLancie doesn't feel anyone should have the force anymore...

What... You think your some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that?

I don't particualrly like either. :rolleyes:

Speed is a difference. I don't know enough to talk about that, but Star Destroyers are designed optimum for their speed. Someone mentioned that hyper is faster than warp.

The thing I see is weapons. The Enterprise, from what I know, has two phasers and four torpedo tubes all facing forwards(like all the ships, Except I think the one in Enterprise has some facing backwards). A Star Destroyer has, last I knew, fourteen turbolaser turrets spread along that wedge, along with the TIEs and smaller weapons for point defense. What is the armament for a Supre Star Destroyer? I won't speculate on the Death Star. And don't forget, Star Wars ships generally have armor as well as shields, Star Trek ships only have shields. And Star Trek has shuttle craft, not designed for battle, whereas TIEs and a/b/x/y wings were purpose made. The phasers don't do much good if they're where you can't shoot at them.

Something I don't get is that both universes ignore nuclear weapons. It seems to me that a good 50Kt nuke would cause the Enterprise serious problems. A fighter-size craft could carry several. From what I've seen in Star Wars, They pretty much ignore missile and torpedo systems.

Right, even though I voted for Star Wars. Star Trek would kick butt. Star Fleet does have fighters, I remember a fleet in DS9 fighting a joint Cardassian/Dominion fleets. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Marquis also have fighters.
In first contact, that wasn't all of Star Fleets ships, that was all that could reach them in time. Star Fleets influence is huge, though not as big as the Borg's. But the Borg aren't all powerful, their queen died in First Contact.
Star Wars has sheer numbers. Rebel fighters did have shields but Imperial fighters didn't. They don't see the honour in shields.
Phasers can only target one target at a time. A Stormtrooper Blaster can clear out a whole roomful of people in the time it takes a phaser to kill someone.
Star Trek has disruptors that disintergrate people, which isn't always a bad thing.
Star Treks big ships should only engage big ships like the Cruisers and Star Destroyers and leave the fighters to the fighters.
Kilngons boarding the Death Star and slaughterin everyone, don't make me laugh. They prefer close combat. That means easy pickings for the Stormtroopers.
No-one has even mentioned Boba Fett yet. Send him out to kill Picard.
Does Star Trek actually have any armies? Star Wars has the clone army, the droid army, the Jedi council, Stormtroopers, the Gungans and to the lesser extends, the Ewoks.
Heres a question, who'd win: A red shirt or a Stormtrooper?

Actually if I recall correctly (and I do) on ST Voyager they managed to use Strip sleam technology a few times. Especially towards the end of the series.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
on ST Voyager they managed to use Strip sleam technology a few times.
Thought it was Slip stream?

Yeah that its. Slip stream a minor miss spelling, i shouldnt have answered that question before I had my 8 cups of coffee this morning.

ok, i just re-watched 'attackof the clones' & although i do prefer Starwars. Startrek would have to be the thinking persons sci-fi(between the two). Why thinking persons? it's straight out confrontationalism verse problem solving.

Starwars:

1)if a droid or anakin can't fix it... it can't be fixed
2)if the force(diplomacy) can't solve it, aggressive negotiations ensue
3)if a phaser can't solve it, a jedi can
3a)if a jedi can't solve it, the galaxy is gone
4)if a droid can't increase power/shields/power, your doomed
5)no-one knows whos in control(senate, emperor, etc)
6)Panics at the thought of war 'jedi are not the army of the republic'.
7)has hyperdrive(travel to alderan takes time)
8)if you loose your way the force shall guide you, cause the force is better than technology(luke destroys the deathstar)
--------------
No transporters
No food replicators
No translators
No holodeck
No paresi squares

Startrek:

1)Scotty can fix it, Geordie can fix it, wesley can fix it, Torres can fix it.
2)need to solve it, spock can, data can, odo can, tuvok can and any number of the other quick thinking starfleet officers and/or personel
3)and if they can't solve it, refer to prime directive and get the hell out of there.
4)see-1
5)The captain's in control, when not in control, follow the chain of command.
6)has embraced war, kingons, romulans, borg, jem'hada(&kicked butt)
7)Warp10 experiment placed Paris everywhere at once, so speed is a non issue(once perfected).
7a)actually warp 13 or 14 reached in final episode(sttng) by capt riker resquing an aged picard from the singularity.
8)if you loose your way, technology shall show the way(ion trails etc) & if that doesn't work, go back to the beginning of the event and ask spock, wesly, data or tuvok to work it out.
------------------
No nerf herders
No Jarjar
No deathstar
No kiwi's(see Clones) :D


Put simply, X-wing v Delta Flyer...
i know which one i want to own(x-wing), but i also know which vehicle i'd prefer to be in, in a battle. :)

Yeah x-wings are cool and id love to own one. But we all know that the Delta Flyer would win that battle.

Here's a question: if you could have one vehicle from either star trek or star wars, what would you have?

For Star Wars, I would pick Anakin's podracer.

For Star Trek, I would, of course, choose the Enterprise-E.

screw the pod racer

in the words of one of the best web sites on the web

"i would use the force to bring me welth, power and a GIANT SPACE BALL TO BLOW PLANETS UP WITH":D

You'd think that they could make bigger bombs wit hthat advanced technology.

um

what are quantam torpeados, proton torpeados, concussion missiles and eggs???

Though Star Trek is a more complete universe(one without stupid flaws, like in star wars eps. 4-6 it is commonly referred that obi-won was taught by yoda, but the in eps. 1 heres a brand new character named qui-gon, what the hell is that shit, i'll tell you just lucas trying to spice things up in an originally not to exciting first 3 eps. thats why he started with #4, back when he did it for his vision, not for an audience), Star Wars definatley has better fighters and tech.

How big is the Enterprise? I seem to recall that it wasn't more than a thousand feet. A 20 Kt explosion would ingulf the ship. Concussion missiles were small too. And I don't know what an egg is.

I recall the Mellenium Falcon being able to withstand several shots from turbolasers. Teh stuff is either very small(torpedoes and such) or very big(sun crusher, superlaser),

an egg is the bomb carried on a k-wing bomber (they carry 2 of them)

they are used to damage and destroy capital ships

concussion missiles are carried on Y-wing bombers and all tho less powerfull than eggs if there are of enough of them will pack a huge punch

Victory class star desroyers also use vollys of concussion missiles rather than turbo lasers

proton torpedos destroyed the DEATH STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the sun crusher missiles cause suns to go nova and the death stars turbo laser destroys planets

The Asgard would be able to kick both universes asses

concussion missiles are carried on Y-wing bombers and all tho less powerfull than eggs if there are of enough of them will pack a huge punch

Key words, enough of them.


proton torpedos destroyed the DEATH STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because the exhaust port was ray shielded.


the sun crusher missiles cause suns to go nova and the death stars turbo laser destroys planets

If you look, I already said this.

I just thought of something. In Picard's era, humans have only been in space like, 500 years, and in Star Wars, the history goes back thousands of years. Conclusion: the Star Trek universe has not had time to think of some of the stuff, and the difference in the lenth of th etimeline prevents an objective analysis.

Star Trek would kick Star Wars ass. Need I say more?

Get a few Gou'ald motherships, Asgard vessels, the Tollan and the Nox (steal their ships) and they'd kick both Star Wars' and Star Treks' asses. Star Wars would but up more of a fight though.

Im sorry but maybe the StarGate universe would kick the SW and ST univeres. but I think that a fleet of white stars from the B5 universe could kick there assess, or the shadows and vorlons. But out of all the universes Farscape would kill all of them, there all hardcore like that.

I used to watch Stargate (and still do), and some of the races on that show wouldn't put up much of a fight. As for B5 and Farscape, I don't watch either of them so I don't know anything about them.

The Peace Keepers would wup ass. Their flak cannons are so cool. I forgot about the Replicators, they'd kick ass, they're winning the war against the Asgard.

Riiight.


Gifted:How big is the Enterprise? I seem to recall that it wasn't more than a thousand feet. A 20 Kt explosion would ingulf the ship.

Engulf it's shields perhaps. If it wasn't seven hundred meters long.


And I find it hard to believe that there are many technologies out there that could deal with self replicating mines.
Or for that matter, an Akira class or Nebula class starship.
That's without starting on the Galaxy class or Sovreign class.
Eleven class X phaser emitters, Two PhoTorp mark XXV launchers.
Shields capable of energy dissipation of 7.3x10^5kW (Instantaneous).

Thinking of destroying stars?
Why use a ship when one Andoran scientist can do it with a stand alone missile.

Star wars had a death star capable of destroying planets?
The first Enterprise was capable of that. Lob a couple of tri-cobalt devices and run like hell.

The force is gonna get us?
The Ocampa have the ability to rearrange matter at below the sub atomic level.

And have none of you seen Endgame?

To quote the motto of the USS Defiant construction team;

Assimilate This.

Forgive me. I have never seen a starship using all eleven phaser bank, so how can I know? You probably read alot of the books and stuff. I don't.

Let's hack into their comm systems adn have a few Vogons recite poetry. We win.

There is also the fact that a 4 magaton explosion created a fireball 10 miles across, though I confess, shielding would pobably be able to deal with that.

I've always wondered about the Death Star thing. I think we, at a 21st century tech level could build a bomb that, if not obliterating the planet, than causing severe problems. If your B-wings could carry the bomb... I've always in my own universe favored a torpedo or missile as a planetbuster.

You can help me with this one: Cloaking devices in Star Trek, except that one in movie 6, take so much energy that you can't fire the weapons. Phasers being affected I can understand, but photon torpedoes? Don't they have an onboard power supply?

Gifted: Don't they have an onboard power supply?

Yep. There's what they call a warp sustainer engine. Not powerful enough to get the photorp to warp but strong enough to keep it there.

The actual launce involves the photorp being 'slung' from the launch tube by a combination of gas jets and electromagnetic pulses from a series of constrictor segments.

Maybe the power that the constrictor segments use is more than would be available when cloaked.

If you make a 20kt explosion, that would engulf the Enterprise, wouldn't you take out a couple of your own? I have one letter that can solve this whole debate................................... "Q".

Getting it to warp would be a problem. Perhaps a modified 'pedo mounted under a Bir of Prey's "wings."

Heres a thought.

In the original Star Trek multiple references are made to the fact that the Enterprize has enough power to destroy a planet. And we know how much that ship sucks compared to the later stuff.

And of course Star Trek has Q. I mentiond that once earlier and sombody else more recently and no Star Wars supporter has even tried to beat that arguement.;)

As has been said in 3 post before: Q

Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q

HELLO?!?!?!

There is a race of GODS from the star trek universe. Their powers are to the force what a supernova is to a candle. Q Powers >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Force

DISCUSSION OVER

If you have the contest between the right time points, 9,000 Jedi might be enough. But I think the thread was comparing technology. How 'bout I throw in H. Beam Piper's Future History, although I don't know enough to do the comparison.

From the intial post in this thread: So if the two universes collided and had to do battle with each other

See now you're making exceptions to take a strong point out of one side's arguement.

Weak... :D :p

I haven't read the first post in a while, keeping up with the new ones(sorry), but it would also take out the Jedi. Currently, there are few Jedi. If you collided the universes before they were all wiped out... I don't know.

Q would also have to be in the right mood, as I recall just because he's there doesn't mean he'll help. I haven't seen too much of them, so someone else will need to clarify this for us poor ignorant ones.:o

Q is an arrogant bas-tud, but he's yet to leave us unassisted or mis-led when required. And if i'm not mistaken he is indebted to us mere humanoids for more than one reason.

sttng original ep.(we'll be watching u) right through to aunty katherine stv(the only ones Q could turn to).
and don't forget the underlying assistence Q provided during the Borg conflict in st first contact(providing the most borg experienced vessel in the federation(excluding Enterprize) to enter the battle even though it was out of its own time frame)-see startrek borg.

if anything, Q is our teacher, our confidant, our saviour and our nemisis all in one. Q makes this discussion mute, there is no equivilent in starwars, hence we must stick to technology to settle the debate and starwars isn't winning there either. Spock says ^:bugeye:^ fascinating...

A thought:
the first borg cube the death star come up against... need i say more... i will... the empire crumbles, the only one not shit'n themselves is old darth-"this technological wonder you have constructed fails in comparison to the POWER of the force, and come to think of it... old darth would never have gotten sooooo bad medically in the startrek universe, at worst he would have holographic internal organs or found a way to infuse data's neuro-net with his meti-chlorenes.

STAR WARS WILL GET THEIR ASSES KICKED BY THE CALAMARI ...not to metion Q

Why is this restricted to Star Wars and Star Trek. What about Battlestar Galactica, Homeworld, Wing Commander, etc, etc. They'd put up a good fight.

Throw anime in. They'd probably kick everybody's butt.

Star Trek has races that can make something happen by just thinking about it. They could destroy a whole race if they wanted to. If you put 100 hundred Star Destroyers against 50 Star Trek ships, the Star Trek ships would destroy all the Star Destroyers. Why, because the Star Destroyers suck donkey balls. Their big, but they are weak. One good torpedo could take them out. That and the crew has the intelligence of a soap sponge, no wait I take that back, I don't want to insult the soap sponge.

You know what about the farscape universe. I think that something like a full command carrier would whoop startreks enterprize and blow the hell out of starwars death star. Plus Prowlers are cooler then X-wings.

`throw in DBZ for all I care and still Q

then there is the calamari, then the guy that took wesley with him, then there is a hole bunch of of super aliens in the original series.

after they are done, it will be called the weakness instead of the force.:D

Enterprise vs. Executor
WORF: "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
PICARD: "Lasers...can't even penetrate our navigational deflector. Don't they know that?"
RIKER: "Regulations...do call for Yellow Alert."

(Actual Quote from: "The Outrageous Captain O'Canna" (TNG)

Q vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi

*Kenobi Draws Light Saber*
*Q yawns and makes him dissappear*

Borg Cube vs. Death Star
LOCUTUS: "The knowledge...and experience, of the Nabooan... Palpatine... is part of us now. Resistance is hopeless, my young Apprentice."

ROTFL, Hilarious!!

star trek would win, hands down. all they would have to do is beam people out into space, right from their ships.

Since we're getting off topic, why don't we just throw a free-for-all and ask who would come out on top?

Q is an arrogant bas-tud, but he's yet to leave us unassisted or mis-led when required. And if i'm not mistaken he is indebted to us mere humanoids for more than one reason.

...if anything, Q is our teacher, our confidant, our saviour and our nemisis all in one.

Thanks. :)

ok how about an SSJ4 gogeta

heh no one can beat those combination

but i think star wars can beat star trek or even Space balls :D

Ludicris speed, man. We'll leave 'em in the dust.

Liquid shwartz:D

Now THAT would be good... let's add Spaceballs to this!

How the hell did one of the results get to 80003???

i'll go and get the bumper sticker

i wonderd about that....

what about the "dune universe" where they have people with reflexes (miles teg in heretics of dune) and muscle speed that kick the shit out of the force, and they have the kwisatch haderach who can move through time. They also have the god emperor Leto II who can see everything that the universe is planning to do....

i think that dune is in there for the running

although theres just no getting around Q
its not really fair i think haha

Hey what about the Ghosts busters universe? I would imagine that that giant marsh mellow man would kick everyones ass!

Or...or Winona Ryder. She would kick serious, serious, serious tail, man. I'm talking like, serious tail. You dig?

BTW does anyone remember how many votes the first option had? I want to go change it back but I just have no idea as to what it's last position was.

WTF's with the votes

Spaceballs would be great here.

Imagine a Winnebago (<---- Is that right????) going up against X-Wings and Shuttles :eek:

Pollux, Star Trek had 1

Star Wars was kicking butt

I think it had around five or six, that's what I'm going to change it to.


Winner Bago (<---- Is that right????)

No, you uncultured womanly sidekick, it's winnebago. God....

Sorry dude. Not a yank so I don't know :)

What does that imply? That just because I'm a 'yank' I live in a trailer park, prostitute hairy women, throw darts at my teachers in school, or make shitty cars? My, my...what we have here is another Web Fascist (or Wescist), discriminating indirectly or directly to people(s) without*waves finger* provacation.

Back to free thoughts...

I'm saying that I don't live in America. We have like 1 Winnebago in the whole country.

I think you should cut back on the Wacky Tabacky from now on pollux

You're a Wescist, Thor, apparently you just don't know it yet. And I will angrily reiterate, like I have done in the other thread I just posted in, that I have never used what one would define as "drugs," i.e pot, cocaine, or in the crazy british person's sense, a quote unquote "wacky tabacky."


We have like 1 Winnebago in the whole country

But I bet it's an american winnebago, right?? Jeez...

Actually, I got Wacky Tabacky from an American show




But I bet it's an american winnebago, right?? Jeez...

Who else would make that hunk a junk :D

Sorry about the accusations of drug use (or misuse) its just you seem a little.....fruitier than usual lately

You need to put Farscape Universe up there...hehe, I promise il only vote once.:D Because A full command carier would kick major ass

I dunno, all I've seen a command carrier do is fire off some of its cannons. Plus, they don't have that many of them in the entire universe....

Okay, I'll add a few more options to the list.



its just you seem a little.....fruitier than usual lately

I just can't resist the urge to mess around with you, Thor. It's so much fun!

:(

What does that imply? That just because I'm a 'yank' I live in a trailer park, prostitute hairy women, throw darts at my teachers in school, or make shitty cars? My, my...what we have here is another Web Fascist (or Wescist), discriminating indirectly or directly to people(s) without*waves finger* provacation

POLLUX!!!! I live in a trailer park what is that suppose to mean?! And Ive never thrown a dart at a teacher...except this one time but she DESERVED it. But yes I do live in a trailer park. and i drive a ford....

ANd ADD FARSCAPE TO THE LIST FOR CHRIST SAKES!

POLLUX!!!! I live in a trailer park what is that suppose to mean?! And Ive never thrown a dart at a teacher...except this one time but she DESERVED it. But yes I do live in a trailer park. and i drive a ford....

Then you, like me, am an american. I am an american. I am an american. I am an american. Damn...propaganda department (aka Ad Council) is getting to me...

Thor, I didn't mean it in a bad way, it's just like we're sitting in class making stupid jokes or something, okee day?

dont kill me for using a jar jar word, please, please...no...

Dear Eris no. You used a Jar Jar phrase. You have sunk real low:D

I am in class right now SO WHATS THAT SUPPOSE TO MEAN!?

Dear Eris no. You used a Jar Jar phrase. You have sunk real low

I know, I know. I'm standing on my head in China right now...


I am in class right now SO WHATS THAT SUPPOSE TO MEAN!?

Counsler mind if I ask but what time zone do you live in? What class are you in, just explain 'cause I don't get it.

Im going to Louisville Technical Institute right now, im in night class its 8:46pm. Im here to learn Mya or quark or whatever to become a graphic designer.

AND ANOTHER THING! The poll said that i had voted for star trek, i wish to retract that vote and vote for farscape, is that possible Pollux? Can you do that for me?

Im going to Louisville Technical Institute right now, im in night class its 8:46pm. Im here to learn Mya or quark or whatever to become a graphic designer

Sounds like you know your stuff lol...


AND ANOTHER THING! The poll said that i had voted for star trek, i wish to retract that vote and vote for farscape, is that possible Pollux? Can you do that for me?

*funkadilly tauren voice* DONE!!

Thank you because Farscape kicks ass. Do you except bribs?

Uhhh, it depends....:D:D

No response to anime?

damnit pollux post "dune" up there.

All Dune is is sand. Hence the name DUNE! sand.

Vote for farscape.

Actually I know the answer.
Star Wars was a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Star Trek is the future. Obviously the Borg are on their way here from the Star Wars galaxy. They have already assimilated SW and head now for our descendants. And not only that but at the end (movie) there is only one Jedi in the galaxy. SO the borg would easily pick luke off. He was barely a jedi anyways.

Has this thread been brought back to life? Why yes, it has!!! Here it was we thought it was all dead (and man is it old)... Come one people, and the n00bs, post and share your ideas. Muwhahahahah *Evil Hitler Grin*

*cough cough*
I would definitely have voted for Stargate, IF IT WAS THERE!. :mad:I know you haven't put it there on purpose; you knew that almost everybody would be voting for Stargate.

But anyway, since it wasn't there, I voted for Star Treck. Ummm if I recall correctly, there's no Star Wars warship that has ANY kinds of shields... Jees, nothing could be easier than getting one laser beam (or whatever they shoot with) into a star wars ship, blowing it up immediately. The sophisticated locking systems on the Enterprise or Voyager would not miss a single shot on the enemy ships. Not to mention the more advanced races shown on Star Treck Voyager--not the borg, but other races (of which the names I have forgotten). Heck, even the Federation developed a time transportation device, with which they were able to go back in time after five centuries, making the Voyager a VERY primitive spaceship... I think you people get my point.

And please, don't get me explaining why the Stagrate universe would kick butt. Having the Gould, Nox, or even the Asguard... It would be "what the-- AHHH!!"... then nothing from the Star Wars ships.

I hope you get my point:cool:

By the way, I don't recall any show named Spaceballs...

Alien, this is a ST vs. SW thread, not a whole all out battle, but say the word and I could throw it up there. If I want to.:rolleyes:

Okay let's leave it like this, the federation vs. the empire. Who would win? No alien influence at all, just good old Earth ships against other Earth ships... or at least look like Earth ships. No 8472, no Borg, no Scarrens, no Nox, none of that crap. Just Earth vs Earth.

Your poll says: Which universe would win?

I persume that takes into consideration not only humans, but other species as well, since the word is "universe".

But sure: Star Treck humans vs. Star Wars humans; I still believe that the Federation would kick butt. Recall the episode (if you have seen it) in which the federation developed time travel technology. There was a MUCH more advanced spaceship than the Voyager. That ship could go back or forward in time any 'time' it wants.

Dune Universe would win. Heighliners would be about the size of the death star, and if they mounted weapons. I mean, if the houses decided to do lasgun on your shields... If you ever read Dune you would know. So Dune would win. Fremen would kick storm trooper ass any day.:m:

Alien, I put stargate in, I hope your happy. I also put one vote in to represent you.

Vote 17 more times for me please!!

Alien, Spaceballs is a spoof film

The main ships were Spaceball 1 (which could transform into a maid with a vacuum cleaner) and the Winnebago (is that right, I'm not trailer trash you see :p ) with wings. That's about it...

(is that right, I'm not trailer trash you see

Thor, I am going to kill you one day.:D

Well, I believe that the PeaceKeepers from farscape would win. If you haven't seen a full command carrier, with frag cannons, then you haven't seen anything. Also Tayln kicks butt.

And you still haven't added the votes from me...also put on 6 or 7 botes for Farscape, for each other person in this world that likes it :p


Thor, I am going to kill you one day
Have at you!!


If you haven't seen a full command carrier, with frag cannons, then you haven't seen anything
Seen it, pretty basic...*yawns* How about a Chaos Planet Killer from Battle Fleet Gothic? Able to destroy a planet in a wink of an eye and move on to the next before anyone in the proximity can even react.

The Imperial Fleet (in BFG) would kick so much ass, I mean they are so advanced, more advanced than any of the other races here that's for sure. No-one would be able to come close to penetrating even a patrol ships hull.

what about a Bolo Planet Killer Fleet. Bolo's can kill anything :m:

What about a Bolo Planet Killer Fleet. Bolo's can kill anything
If we're both thinking of the same thing...they're still inferior to the Imperial Fleet.

"11915 [8928 AD] "Into the Depths" ** Valleor and the Collector vie for control of the planet-killer missile that lies at the heart of Tishranet Volcano."

The Imperial Fleet is in Earth Standard Year 4590640.M41 (or 40,640AD)...so go figure

What about the moties? With the engineers redesigning constantly, and Warriors, easily far superior to Imperial Marines, they'd be pretty strong :m:

Please just tell me we're talking about the same thing before I learn a whole new universe from scratch!!

And not only that but at the end (movie) there is only one Jedi in the galaxy. SO the borg would easily pick luke off. He was barely a jedi anyways.
You haven't read any of the books, have you?


Ummm if I recall correctly, there's no Star Wars warship that has ANY kinds of shields...
You don't. SW ships have shields and armor, as I recall from something Pullux said, ST ships just have shields. Add the increased weapons density of SW ships on top of the defensive systems, and you have trouble. I fail to see the advantage(unless you can provide power specs to prove on phaser blast more powerful than a full salvo from a star destroyer)of only being able to track with one phaser bank at a time, against being able to fire multiple turrets on one target.

What would be interesting would be to see the later ships, as they capture technology and innovate and learn from each other.

maybe this was said before, but are the Q involved?

I have to say that the combination of the cloaking technolgy, with the borg, makes Star Trek look pretty good.

And what about speed. StarTrek ships go at warp 10 max? In starwars, they just call it "light speed" so that seems slower. slow being a relative term.

Yes I have read the books. and in fact I run a New Jedi Order RPG so I know that they will come back. But just in case anyone questioned that post I invoke the full powers of -Q-. There is nothing in Star Wars that could take the continuim. Sure there is Darth Vader and Palpatine, but there is a WHOLE CONTINUIM of Q. So yeah. I rest my case.

This was a close one, Star Wars could easily take on any of these, then again so could Star Trek and Stargate (not so much Stargate, but they do have the replicators and the Asguard, plus the other 2 powerful races in the big group that we have yet to meet). I picked ST though, just because I don't think the Empire (which is the major power in SW) would stand a chance against the Borg alone, much less everyone else in the series.


And what about speed. StarTrek ships go at warp 10 max? In starwars, they just call it "light speed" so that seems slower. slow being a relative term.

'Light speed' in SW can mean anything, they did a horrible job with that. For example, in The Empire Strikes Back (I think it was that one), they think the Falcon went to light speed and after like 30 mins of searching the guy says "If they did go to light speed, they could be on the other side of the galaxy by now"... not likely.

actully he says they could be half way across the galaxy by now and then darth says then send out your probs

and they are on hoth

you have to rember tho that star trek is scifi and star wars is fantasy

thats why they dont care so much about tecnical details

Are we thinking of the same part? I thought this was after the Hoth attack, when the Falcon escapes the Star Destroyers by sticking onto one of their bridge modules, then detaching and posing as space junk just before the SD went to light speed. That would be after the probes went out ;)

sorry your right

but they think it has a clocking device so it could have been ANYWHERE

They discarded the cloaking device, they said no ship that small could have one.

And then the Imperial Navy developed the Stealth Tie Fighter, go figure :rolleyes:

Dammit Thor, that's not in the movies! =D

It's in Rebel Assault 2 and some of the books

This contest would come down to three power-packed universes: Star Trek (if all races joined up, including the Borg), Dune (led by the Fremen and their Messianic leader) and Star Wars (the Jedi and Sith together would not need Clones).

And the winner would be...Star Wars, which would stomp Starfleet and their allies, then edge out over Dune after a few final lightsaber duels...and the Force would overwhelm even the Weirding Way.

Spaceballs would own everybody!

RED DWARF BOMBS ON ALL OF THEM

starhunter, Species 8472 would own the Empire all by itself =P

And then the Imperial Navy developed the Stealth Tie Fighter, go figure
I'll have to look that up(references please?) but I believe that stealth, unless otherwise specified, is passives, radar absorbing materials and such, while cloaking involves actively hiding the craft, traditionally by bending light around the object.

pollex WHY did you put spaceballs in the pole?:p

hehhehehe

edit - OK, didn't read the thread. :rolleyes: Well, Stargate's the best IMO, so therefore it naturally has the best aliens! :D

I'll have to look that up
It is in the game 'Star Wars: Rebel Assault 2' and in some books and graphic novels

It's stealth as in it can cloak

I think i know why he put spaceballs
It s the only parody of star wars (at least it is the only one i know)
And in my point of view is a very good movie and also its funny
all in one :eek: :D

To words that might help the Star Trek Universe in Battle. V'ger and the Probe :D. If You have Seen the Motion Picture and ST4 then you would know what i mean. I don't think it would matter in a battle but the largest vessel in the 2 universes would probably be V'ger because it had enough space inside of it to hold a planet the size of earth. It also would be the largest living being. V'ger wouldn't destroy anything it would use it for its own energy, like the 3 klingon vessels and the Federation Communication station. And don't forget its power output, it generated a field the size of Earths orbit around the sun our 2 AU's I don't think the Death Star 2 could do that. Now to the Alien probe in star trek 4. This thing could render everything that comes in contact with it useless because of its strong carrier waves. If you would even try to fire at it, your energy and solid weapons(rockets,missiles, etc) would be absorbed . It also could reck havic on your planet as well. The only thing that I can see that comes even close to V'ger and The Probe is the sun crusher, to use it you have to use energy and the probe and V'ger would use that energy to they're advantage. And the Force it doesn't excist in the Star Trek Universe because of what ever biological or chemical agents that make the force (work) which was stated in Ep1.

I also need to talk about the speeds and battle technology in the Universes. In Star Wars they have Hyperspace. In Star Trek they have warp. You would think Star Wars would have the Faster vessels. WRONG!!! If i may racall in a couple of eps in TNG and VOY they had Transwarp. Most of the time it wasn't used by Fed. ships but by borg and another races i can't think of at the moment, but the technology was there. The most vivid memory i have is when Voyeger was traveling at transwarp torwards home. They traveled from one end of the Galaxy to another in a matter of minutes. Now some of the technology that was reviled at the end of VOY. First the very powerful torpedos that it had. One hit could destroy a borg cube which is a little bigger and more powerful then a star destroyer from the facts that i gathered. Then there was the armour. All of the borg weapons that were fired on that ship took a very long time to do damage. I've also heard through the grape vine of multi-layerd sheliding and advanced cloaking technology. This was seen in nemesis. It wasn't on a Federation ship, but was in the Star Trek Universe. If you have any defense using the force:rolleyes: look at my last reply , you will have you answer.

....All Good Things Enterprise All The Way Baby :cool:

Ok first off, let me establish something first. Im a bigger fan of Wars than Trek. Here are the Facts

Enterprise E has multi phasic sheilds Vs. Ray shields? no contest
lasers wouldn't even put a drain on the E,s shields.

Weapons. Hmmm. Ok the Empire has some pretty big lasers but they are still lasers.

Ok here's where it gets interesting The Empire has Hyperdrive tech which is considerably faster than Warp tech. but they have to make jump calculations and once in hyperspace cannot fight track targets or be tracked Warp Speed is far faster than the sublight the empire conducts combat operations in. The Enterprise while at Warp speed can fight.

back to Weapons.

The Enterprise has Phased Energy weapons and Photon and Quantom Torps
and something thats not in the weapons dept but something the Star Wars Universe has NEVER seen. Transporters.

Individual match up The Sovereign Class is more than likely be the victor.
circumstances can vary but unless your Sovereign has an idiot for a CO which is highly unlikely because the iddiots are generally never given starship command in the 24th unlike in Kirks time (Captain of the Grissom)

The circumstances for there to be a fight in the first place are highly unlikely Star Fleet protocol doesn't encourage jumping into alien conflicts. The Enterprise would be all diplomatic until the time which I don't see happening is the Empire starting hostilities with representatives of another Galaxy. Visiters that could be a valued ally or Dreaded enemy that would make the Rebellion seam like a mild irrtation. All in all it makes for a challenging story to contemplate in writing but very interesting non the less. the argument was who would win in a fight the Enterprise E or an Imperial star destroyer.
and the facts speak for themselves. Don't get me wrong I love Star Wars more always have. but for you biassed Wars fans who for some reason have not considered the facts. take heart in an all out War the Empire if led properly could not only conquer the Federation but the entire Alpha and Gamma Quadrants as well. They have the Sheer Numbers which in the end would most likely be a winning factor. I can understand the biassed feelings I think Star Wars is cooler by a long shot.

This is the point where I should jump in and say, “dude, relax… it’s fiction…”

BUT ----

In the Star Trek, the Enterprise is a pretty poor warship. It looses most of the fights it gets in to, usually having to resort to diplomacy or techno-babble trickery in the end. And the Starfleet security officers regularly get beaten up by the alien of the week. Very few times has the Enterprise won a straight fight on the TV show. In the Star Wars universe, the Imperial Star Destroyer is a big mean effective killing machine. Not fancy, not subtle, but it blows stuff up really well. The rebels spend the first two movies running and hiding rather than face imperial fleet ships in a straight fight.

While you are using your phasers to knock out TIE's, I have set flank speed and am closing fast. Don't bore me with photon torpedoes. They are merely souped-up cruise missles that I should be able to knock down with my close quarter weapons designed to deal with small, fast-moving targets. One pissed off ISD with a surly commander is closing fast.

Seems to me it would be a battle between a fancy yacht with some neat weapons and an industrial strength can of whoop ass.

BUT ----

“dude, relax… it’s fiction…” :D


Peace.

Even the old vintage Enterprise would have some very desisive tacticle advantages over an Imperial Warship But to be fair lets get down to it Star Wars is Cooler! Sure it is! Yes it is fiction but we wouldn't be asking the question if we were not in slightest bit curious or protective of our favoraite Genre. Ive read some of the messages on this subject and frankly I have to remind myself that most of the folks diving into this debate are civilians.
I have been in the Navy for over 10 years and can say I have more knowlege than the average sailors when it comes to the Navy's Assets strengths and vulnerabilities from the lowest to highest levels and I know where to get my information on a number of challenges we deal with in this modern multi dimensionaly faceted Conflict our nation is currently in. Sci fi for me is a wonderous break from all that. one on one the Enterprise is going to win just because of differences in tech. lasers even big lasers being applied against multi phasic sheilding. Transporters. Hand weapons that basically not only can make much bigger holes than blasters but can and often demonstrated completly vaporizing their targets. Don't get me wrong I think the variety of blasters in the Star Wars Universe are way cooler in looks and of course ILM makes them sound so much better than whinny phasers. In a full scale conflict the Empire is going to win. By sheer numbers alone. The Empire's Imperial class Star Destroyers were are numbered in the 10s of thousands where the Federations full compliment of starships are numbered in a couple or so thousand with each ship and class varying in size and strength. The Empire would be able to capture and occupy the few hundred worlds of the Federation rather easily not that they would if you remember they even with they're vast numbers were stretched prety thin trying to locate and engage rebel units throughout they're own Galaxy so I don't see that happening unless were talking about an alternate story where the Emperor see's the Milky Way and decides we are all going to capture and occupy them the hell with our own Galaxy. hey if thats too deep its a question that was out there you expressed some interest. For me my Fiction has to be somewhat believeable so the details and factors are all important. To be honest I stumbled on this question looking for funky wallpaper for the desk top. It's fun to speculate It would be nice if there were a real time strategy game applying all the factors of the two universes and pitting them against one another for an all out conflict between the 2 universes Hell how about a mini series two actually one where the Empire wins the other with the opposite outcome. I can see it going either way depending on decisions made I do remember the Emperor making some really bad ones. So there you are

Get a few Gou'ald motherships, Asgard vessels, the Tollan and the Nox (steal their ships) and they'd kick both Star Wars' and Star Treks' asses. Star Wars would but up more of a fight though.


In one manner I agree in another I disagree Individuale combat a Sov would slagg an Imp class Star Destroyer. the tech is mostly in the Alpha Quadrants favor but the numbers sure are not Star Fleet has 2 maybe 3 thousand star ships in service where the empire's Imperial class Destroyers are numbered in the 10s of thousands. TIEs? (knats) Warp not near as fast as hyperdrive but.....its faster than sublight which are the speeds the Empire fights in. and you and fight and kick some at warp 9.9 Hyperspace would help the empire swarm the entire alpha quadrant in a matter of weeks where it would take years for the feds to traverse the same distance. you could push it in either direction the Emperor would have to be shrewder than he was when he dealt with the rebels. Lets not forget the Klingons the Romulans and countless other regimes that would develope a vast interest in this conflict. it really could go either way give me the entire Alpha quadrant forces I could win it give me the Empires I could win it its all how its played out they each have desisive advantages over the other and can almost be considered even But......biass comes into play and lets face it people for some reason think Star Wars is more Cool...... but in an earlier argument where a fan stated the Imperial class star destroyer (1) mind you verses the Enterprise E would be no contest and he indicated the Star Destroyer as the victor.. Uhhhhh no! only if the captain the the USS Grissom from the search for spock were in command because he would have to wait til the last minute to raise shields for the Imps to get be able to get an upper hand once those sheilds are up. Lasers. lots of em sure but there just Lasers. Im afraid it would be like mighty mouse verses Elmer fud.
Hey wanna have some fun take one defiant some anti matter containment canisters some anti matter about oh a dozen Star destroyers hey lets up the body count one SSD One itty bitty lil defiant. DEFIANT is cloaked. and unlike in the star wars universe where ships that size don't have cloaks and the ones that are are blind and deaf while they are cloaked. hmmm itty bitty defiant would just have to pass by the 12 and simultaniously beam 1 canister in the engine room of each of the Imperials and speed out at warp .5 uncloaked we would want the poor Imps to get site of what killled em and a chance to take some pot shots at it as it fliys off at half the speed of light away from them. Big flashhhhhhh. It would be pretty much mass murder not combat tactics like that could be employed to catch up or = out on our number difference. but hey its only fiction but it sure the hell is fun to contemplate they really need to put out a PC game for this argument.

can i point something out

if i name the new star wars laser the "super quadruple phaded quantom phaser" would that make it anymore powerful?

no its what they can DO

and the death star can blow up a PLANET and the suncrusher destroys SUNS, no contest

Ok first off, let me establish something first. Im a bigger fan of Wars than Trek. Here are the Facts

Enterprise E has multi phasic sheilds Vs. Ray shields? no contest
lasers wouldn't even put a drain on the E,s shields.Since star wars shields are able to repel blasts of hundreds of gigatons, while the shields on startrek seem to fail after only a few gigatons, there seems to be little doubt that Imperial shields are far superior.
Weapons. Hmmm. Ok the Empire has some pretty big lasers but they are still lasers. A standard Trek photon torpedo has a yield of about 64 megatons. The heavy guns on an Aclamator class Star Destroyer produce 200 gigatons/volley. This means that one blast from a Star Destroyer’s heavy guns is equivalent to getting hit by about 3000 photon torpedoes. This suggests that a star destroyer could probably vaporize a Federation ship in a single blast – and since star destroyers are designed to survive combat against similarly-armed ships, it isn’t clear that a Federation ship would even be capable of damaging a star destroyer. The most extreme example of star wars weapon technology would probably be the Death Star’s super laser, which would have needed an output of around 3.7*10^33 joules, or about forty-two thousand billion gigatons – far, far more than anything the federation has ever displayed.
Transporters.Yeah...and the star wars ships all have shields. Which means that the federation ships probably couldn't transport onto them unless the shields had been lowered or knocked down - something that puny federation weapons are probably unable to accomplish.

the argument was who would win in a fight the Enterprise E or an Imperial star destroyer.
and the facts speak for themselves. Don't get me wrong I love Star Wars more always have. but for you biassed Wars fans who for some reason have not considered the facts. Yes, facts. Let’s consider the facts:

Enterprise-E:
Length: 685 meters
Width: 224 meters
Height: 88 meters
Mass: 3.25 million metric tons

Star Destroyer:
Length: 1,600 meters
Height: 460 meters
Width: 885 meters
Mass: 25 million metric tons
It also carries 77 small fighters.

Hmm…

oh and on top of that i have never seen star trek hit ANYTHING remotly important (like aiming at the bridge or the engins for one) but a fighter piolot took down the death star by droping a bomb down a tiny hole

chances of star trek exployting weakness are SOOO much tinier than star wars

I thought in this thread we were talking about the different universes, not just the Federation and the Empire. If that's the case, Star Trek takes it in a walk. Don't they have all those god-like aliens running around? The Q, the Organians, the wormhole aliens aka the Prophets, etc, etc. If that's the case Star Trek wins it in a walk.

And actually if you want to talk about pinpoint targeting, in the second part of EQUINOX Voyager pinpoint targeted the Eqinox's engines from 30,000 kilometers away while both ships were doing significant fractions of lightspeed...you can tell this cuz Voyager caught up with the Equinox 5 seconds later.

And the Star WArs ships DO NOT have weapon energies of hundreds of gigatons. That's just pure idiocy. The asteroid impact that wiped out the dinosaurs was on the order of 3 to 4 gigatons. If the main guns of every capital ship in the empire had weapon energies measuring in the hundreds of gigatons, they could each destroy a planet with one barrage. Why need the Death Star? And would it really be wise to employ that kind of firepower when on stray shot could obliterate all life on a world? And more to the point, would you entrust that kind of firepower to the low quality crews that seem to populate teh Star Wars universe?

Besides, you look at all the explosions on screen in all the movies, almost all the shots from all the ships are shown as barely having enough punch as several stick of dynamite. I mean, if each shot had the equivalent energy of a hundred gigatons of explosive power behind it, shouldn't the explosive plume when they hit be hundreds if not thousands of miles across?

I would LOVE to see just the jedi take ANYONE

They would just kick ass

oh and i would just send A-wings and tie-defenders against the entiprise

they would NEVER hit them, to fast

star trek has no speed, only shields

starwars has BOTH


But the star trek targeting computers are deadly accurate and their weapons are far superior. Star trek Disruptors vs puny laser canons of star wars. lasers would hardly dent the enterprise shields. While disruptors would surely pierce an ISDs shield.

Compare size with size. Enterprise versus a star wars frigate. Enterprise is highly maneuverable.

Now lets talk about man to man combat. The the average earthling & klingon would be of no match against the elite jedi & sith soldiers. but I dont think they they would prevail against the borg. the borg number by the billions. and a couple of hits from the light saber would immunize them from the effects of this energy weapon. yeah the 'force' warriors are quick but they are still made of flesh and would eventually tire out. borgs are relentless and tireless. they are also tough.


Now I regret voting for star wars.


The futuristic Enterprise, as was featured in the last episode of 'New Generation', is extremely deadly as I recall. It is able able to cloak while maintaining its shield and firing its weapons.

I thought in this thread we were talking about the different universes, not just the Federation and the Empire. True. But I was responding specifically to Sandman719's claims that a federation ship could easily defeat a star destroyer.
And the Star WArs ships DO NOT have weapon energies of hundreds of gigatons. That's just pure idiocy. The asteroid impact that wiped out the dinosaurs was on the order of 3 to 4 gigatons. If the main guns of every capital ship in the empire had weapon energies measuring in the hundreds of gigatons, they could each destroy a planet with one barrage. Why need the Death Star?Actually, when you consider the fact that the death star was able to blow up a planet it isn’t at all surprising that the turbo-lasers on a star destroyer would hit with hundreds of gigatons. Assuming that Alderan was roughly the same as the Earth, the minimum energy necessary to blow it up (based solely on the gravitational binding energy) would be around forty-two thousand billion gigatons. If a heavy turbo-laser battery on a star destroyer produced 200 gigatons it would only be about 0.00000000048% as powerful as the death star’s super-laser – so a 200 gigaton energy cannon is clearly easily within the technical ability of the Empire.
And would it really be wise to employ that kind of firepower when on stray shot could obliterate all life on a world?If that's the kind of firepower needed to punch through an enemy's shields, then you don't really have a choice.

Besides, you look at all the explosions on screen in all the movies, almost all the shots from all the ships are shown as barely having enough punch as several stick of dynamite. I mean, if each shot had the equivalent energy of a hundred gigatons of explosive power behind it, shouldn't the explosive plume when they hit be hundreds if not thousands of miles across?It’s probably safe to assume that almost all of the energy is directed directly forward by the turbo-laser shot (rather than in all directions like with a nuclear bomb), so you wouldn’t necessarily expect a large fireball when the shot hits something. The explosive plum would only be hundreds or thousands of mile across if there was enough mass being hit to create such a plum. The plasma cloud from a relatively small target (like a space ship) would probably dissipate very quickly.

Star trek Disruptors vs puny laser canons of star wars. lasers would hardly dent the enterprise shields. While disruptors would surely pierce an ISDs shield.Where do people keep getting the idea that the star wars weapons are ‘puny’? The Empire is able to make energy cannons that completely destroy planets. Even if their standard weapons had only a tiny, tiny fraction of a super-laser’s power (see above) it would still make them orders of magnitude more powerful than star trek’s.

its the name Nasor

people think that if you call an ostrage a chicken that it wont be able to kill:p

Where do people keep getting the idea that the star wars weapons are ‘puny’? The Empire is able to make energy cannons that completely destroy planets. Even if their standard weapons had only a tiny, tiny fraction of a super-laser’s power (see above) it would still make them orders of magnitude more powerful than star trek’s.

Yeah but they needed a starship the size of half a thousand ISDs to power that thing.

its the name Nasor

people think that if you call an ostrage a chicken that it wont be able to kill:p

Yeah but fools who call an ostrage a chicken could only be people with chicken brains.

Yeah but they needed a starship the size of half a thousand ISDs to power that thing.True – no one suggested that a regular star destroyer has anything like the power of the deathstar. I’m just saying that if the empire can build an energy cannon that fires thousands of billions of gigatons with every shot, then a 200 gigaton cannon should be quite easily within their capabilities.

Yeah but fools who call an ostrage a chicken could only be people with chicken brains.Uh...I don't get it.

True – no one suggested that a regular star destroyer has anything like the power of the deathstar. I’m just saying that if the empire can build an energy cannon that fires thousands of billions of gigatons with every shot, then a 200 gigaton cannon should be quite easily within their capabilities.

The empire only has so many death stars. And these things are only effective against enemies with home planets. Borgs dont have home planets and 3 shots from this canon would make them immune to its damaging effects.

Uh...I don't get it.

I dont think people who cant invent creative names for powerful technologies would have the intelligence to discover advance technologies in the first place.

The empire only has so many death stars. And these things are only effective against enemies with home planets. Borgs dont have home planets and 3 shots from this canon would make them immune to its damaging effects.My point was only that Imperial weapons are far, far more powerful than Federation weapons. I’m sure there are races in the ‘trek universe that have similarly advanced weapons. I was replying specifically to Sandman719’s claim about the Enterprise going up against a star destroyer, not commenting on the Empire vs. the entire ‘trek universe.

And in any case, the mere fact that the Borg are able to adapt to the relatively crappy weapons of the federation doesn’t mean that they have blanket immunity to energy weapons. As I recall there was some species in Voyager that had energy weapons capable of destroying Borg ships that the Borg weren’t able to adapt to.

plus they could just use mind control to send borg against borg

i doubt that borg count as STRONG minded, after all picard keeps just walking past them. Think they would learn that picard equals battle after the first 100

mind control doesnt work on cyborg brains.

Technologically, Star Wars would have to win, since it's in the realm of space opera/fantasy, not really sci-fi per se (though you nerds try so hard to defend it). Stuff in Star Wars happens because it looks good on a big screen.

However, the politicos of Dune would eat everyone alive. There's no way anyone (except maybe Jedi) could compete with the wiles of the Bene Gesserit, or spice addiction.

Didn't Warf hack up borgs with his fancy machete? They were so helpless. Or when the Borg went back in time, and they got shot with FUCKING MACHINE GUNS, and died.

Since the only aliens in Star Trek are people with face putty, they pose now physical threat to the borg.

A goddamn technical savage from 10th century with a sword would fair better against the borg than all of federation.
Just about anything pointy would massacre the Borg.

All weapons are "energy," even bullets. Borg aren't actually immune to "energy weapons," but immune to weapons that have wavelike properties (like light). Heat, which is energy, would destroy a borg, but heat is a particle like a photon, but does not exhbit duality (no waves).

Lightsabers are generally thought to be plasma– not light. Google it if you dont believe me.
As I recall, a Borg queen was defeated when sprayed with plasma. Lightsabres would devour the Borg, or at least cut them into very easy to swallow bits.

Borg aren't actually immune to "energy weapons," but immune to weapons that have wavelike properties (like light).Actually all that's known about the Borg is that they can adapt to become immune to Federation weapons (phasers and photon torpedoes). No one has any idea exactly what sorts of beam weapons they are or are not immune to. Perhaps if you built a phaser powerful enough the Borg wouldn't be able to adapt to it. And like I said earlier, we know that they aren't immune to all beam weapons, since that species in Voyager was able to blow their ships up quite nicely with their bright orange/yellow beams.

No one has any idea exactly what sorts of beam weapons they are or are not immune to.

What about bullets? I remember in StarTrek: First Contact, Picard shot up some Borg. Could they adapt to bullets? And why don't monkeys have beards?

your right about the clasifications actually

star trek is scifi and star wars is fantasy miss labled as scifi. I dont understand why actually when its clearly oviouse

what that has to do with who wins i dont know

I cannot understand people liking Star Wars... The title seems boring. Star Trek at least tried to talk about values, morals, etc... What does Star Wars represent ? Star Trek by far is the better show, quality writing and excellent actors.

LONG LIVE STAR TREK :D

(New here and kinda obvious who I'm rooting for). A note on the Borg...they adapt, there's no definition to what they adapt to really. What they need is *time* to adapt, for example time to create and disperse new armor for defense against physical attacks, bullets etc...
Still reading thru this thread...lol...be back later

Sorry; but fantasy SF weapons will always win against harder science weapons; Star wars has faster ships and bigger lasers.

But Star Trek has time travel; so I suggest the Federation goes back in time and becomes the Empire. That way it could win and lose at the same time.

doesnt work that way, the rebulic was STRONGER in the past rember?

better weapons ect before the clone wars. Plus more jedi

Star Wars weapons cannot be all superior to Star Trek weapons, e.g. Romulan Phoenix device, Klingon subspace wave, Federation Genesis device. Besides which, it is misleading to say that fantasy weapons will always win against science weapons because even fantasy weapons have a defined function and scope. I'm pretty sure I can state an equivalent ST weapon for any SW weapon (PS the Force can be matched by Betazoid/Vulcan - etc - mental prowess).

Oh and PPS eburacum45: Federation Dreadnought class, Romulan D'Kazanak and Scimitar ships (the Tal Shiar won't let those designs die easily), Klingon Negh'Var, Species 8472 Behemoth...just to name a few of Trek's big bad ships ;)

The weapons in Star wars are defined by their destructive power, the speed of the ships defined by their journey times between worlds; unless the planets are made of cotton candy and the stars close together in the Star wars universe they are at least a thousand times faster and more powerful than any star trek ships or weapons (except those possessed by the Q continuum etc). See Mike Wong for the maths.

But my suggestion is that the Federation goes back in time to the period before the Republic itself develops; and becomes the entire Star Wars universe; it can then develop into the Empire after thousands of years.

it is a win win situation.

Of course if the Star Wars universe is smaller, that explains the faster journey times; perhaps those 4" figurines are life size;

Sorry; but fantasy SF weapons will always win against harder science weapons; Star wars has faster ships and bigger lasers.Don’t kid yourself - both star trek and star wars weapons are pure fantasy. The ships in star wars fight with ‘turbo-lasers’ and the ships in star trek fight with ‘phasors’. Both have exactly zero relationship to real-world science or technology. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the startrek weapons have some sort of scientific basis just because the ‘trek writers like to spew scientific-sounding technobabble around.

Star Wars weapons cannot be all superior to Star Trek weapons, e.g. Romulan Phoenix device, Klingon subspace wave, Federation Genesis device.

[Darth Vader Voice]"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant
when compared to the power of the Force."[/Darth Vader Voice]


Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I just have one thing to say:

Q

Well, since the universe is considered infinite, wouldn't it breka down like this? (infinite Star Wars universe) - (infinite Trek universe) = 0.

Everyone loses. Poor ewoks.

Well, since the universe is considered infinite, wouldn't it breka down like this? (infinite Star Wars universe) - (infinite Trek universe) = 0.
True that. Perhaps specifying the galaxies would work better.

star wars would win .. all i have to say is .. eclipse class star detroyer. Whooooooo itd certainly buy that for a dollar!!

Quality vs Quantity, Carrot...Laser is an outdated technology to all Trek races since the development of phasers and SHIELDS. The only thing that would probably happen to a Trek ship facing a powerful enough LASER is maybe it'd be pushed back or some radiation poisoning on outder decks...
Besides which, I think the power ratings for Wars ships were pulled out of a hat, whereas Trek writers did a little research into achievable future goals...did any Wars fan ever think of what resources are required to carry 500 lasers at 300M GW each? I did...the results were staggering...I think if Wars went up against Trek they'd blow themselves to bits TRYING to fire :)
Keeping in mind of course Nasor, that we're still dealing with two fictional realms ;)

Ohh...and don't forget the studies run by the Federation for the anti-proton emitter...antimatter in a beam form. A weapon that would destroy absolutely anything, shields, no shields, whatever...

Quality vs Quantity, Carrot...Laser is an outdated technology to all Trek races since the development of phasers and SHIELDS. The only thing that would probably happen to a Trek ship facing a powerful enough LASER is maybe it'd be pushed back or some radiation poisoning on outder decks...I hate to burst your bubble, but Federation ships obviously are vulnerable to light-based weapons, since they are clearly vulnerable to photon torpedoes. The fact that the federation can’t figure out how to make a decent laser weapon doesn’t mean that they are invulnerable to light.
Besides which, I think the power ratings for Wars ships were pulled out of a hat, whereas Trek writers did a little research into achievable future goals...did any Wars fan ever think of what resources are required to carry 500 lasers at 300M GW each? I did...the results were staggering...I think if Wars went up against Trek they'd blow themselves to bits TRYING to fire :)According to everything we know about physics it’s silly to imagine an energy cannon that can blow up an entire planet. Of course, according to what we know about physics it’s also silly to go faster than light.

Nasor....my bubble remains unbursted; a photon torpedo is not a directed energy weapon, it uses an antimatter reaction to cause an explosion. And phasers are MORE advanced than lasers and actually are different...Not recalling the episode right now, but Enterprise-D encountered a race that still used lasers and their weapons posed absolutely no threat to the shields...even when the flagship was outnumbered.

Oh and PS FTL applications are being researched present day, so it's not quite so silly.

TREK TECH: Phasers, uses a Trek tech called Phased Energy Rectification. It is a nadion beam, a subatomic particle that when in rapid motion (as in a beam) releases strong enough energy to break apart nuclear bonds. Lasers use excited electrons, which would mean that they BURN rather than SEPERATE (someone on this thread worked with lasers...would appreciate a comment on that last statement).
Shields were developed way back when in Trek so duh they can block laser weapons. Nadion particles would be tougher hence rotating shield frequencies.

PS folks, heavens to Sarek, I can't believe my spelling errors lol agolopies ;) ;)

Nasor....my bubble remains unbursted; a photon torpedo is not a directed energy weapon, it uses an antimatter reaction to cause an explosion.When antimatter comes into contact with regular matter and annihilates the only product is light, so any damage that they do would have to be from the intense light pulse. That's probably why they're called photon torpedoes.
And phasers are MORE advanced than lasers and actually are different...Not recalling the episode right now, but Enterprise-D encountered a race that still used lasers and their weapons posed absolutely no threat to the shields...even when the flagship was outnumbered.I recall that episode. But it's silly to think that federation ships are immune to all laser-based weapons simply because the enterprise wasn't vulnerable to the weapons of a single technologically inferior race. The empire's technology is far, far more advanced than the federation's, let alone the tech of the weakling race from that episode.

Um, Nasor, dude, no no...an antimatter-matter rxn produces gamma rays, heat and light and variable particle "residue", the annihiliation however is 100% efficient...

Read my tech post of phaser vs laser, that offers an explanation of why the Federation will persevere against Wars 'turbo lasers'...again assuming that the Empire's ships don't blow up trying to fire ;)

BTW The name "photon" torpedo is a nickname that caught on in Starfleet since the matter-antimatter rxn yields massive amounts of 'photonic' energy across the EM spectrum which includes gamma rays.

Ready for the next one... :D

wow, is this debate still going on?

Anyway, one significant tech from Star Trek no one's really mentioned, that I thought would play a big diference in any battle: their photon/quantum torpedo sustainer engines. Basically it allows a torpedo to "borrow" a bit of the ship's warp field to fly at warp speeds. They were mentioned in a TNG episode, the one guest-starring David Ogden Stiers. They launched a torpedo at a sun from millions of miles away, and the torpedo hit within seconds.

Ie, Trek torpedoes can be used as FTL missiles, as was also shown in the first encounter with the Borg. Trek ships could stand off on the other side of a star system and hit the Star Wars ships with relative impunity, especially given that Star Wars sensors seem little better than radar.

And to respond to an earlier argument: once again, Star Wars ships weapons do NOT propagate gigatons worth of energy. Ships in the movies have hit unshielded targets, and the explosive plumes are the same size as when they hit the shields, ie, no bigger than what a tank shell nowadays could do. Just as an example, remember the proton torpedo, a supposedly multimegaton weapon, Luke shot on his first run at the Death Star? It hit the surface, and caused an explosion much, much smaller than even a kiloton-level nuke. There are a bunch of similar examples. There's simply no evidence for hundred-gigaton weapon energies anywhere in the movies outside the Death Star.

Or for that matter, is the rebel fighters had weapons in the megaton/gigaton range, as some people here have said is needed to penetrate Star Wars shields, why did they bother targeting that little vent once they were inside the Death Star's defensive shields? Just a few volleys of their supposedly gigaton-level weapons would have been enough to vaporize the Death Star outright. There were no shields on the Death Star's surface; neither the rebel fighters nor the Star Destoryer that crashed into it encountered anything except hull, and Luke would never have made that shot into the vent in the first place if there were.

Or how about anakin highjacking that fighter in Phantom menace and taking it aboard the Trade federation vessel? Now remember, this is a space fighter, and would have had its weapons calibrated to do as much damage to an enemy vessel as possible. If the Star Wars boosters are right, to have any chance of damaging the Empire's supposedly powerful shields, its weapons would need an energy yield at least equivalent to a multi-megaton nuclear bomb. But Anakin fires that fighters' weapons INSIDE the federation ship, with no shields anywhere, and amazingly not only is the ship not vaporized instantly, but most of the bay is left intact, as if someone had simply thrown a few grenades around.

Sorry, claims of weapon energies of up to 200 megatons just do not add up with all the evidence shown on screen.

Um, Nasor, dude, no no...an antimatter-matter rxn produces gamma rays, heat and light and variable particle "residue", the annihiliation however is 100% efficient...Light in the only product of a matter/antimatter explosion. Yes, some of that light is in the form of gamma rays. Any heat produced is merely the result of nearby matter absorbing the light.
Read my tech post of phaser vs laser, that offers an explanation of why the Federation will persevere against Wars 'turbo lasers'.I read it, but you never explain why federation phasers would be better than imperial turbo-lasers. Ok, so phasers are a 'nadion beam'. So what? The fact remains that in terms of shear destructive power, imperial weapons are obviously far superior. You seem to have fallen victim to the fallacy of thinking that a technology makes a better weapon just because it's more 'exotic'.

You can try to use whatever technobabble you want to justify why federation weapons would be superior, but the fact remains that the empire can make energy cannons that destroy entire planets in a single blast - something that the federation couldn't even dream of. It seems obvious that their weapons are superior.

Or for that matter, is the rebel fighters had weapons in the megaton/gigaton range, as some people here have said is needed to penetrate Star Wars shields, why did they bother targeting that little vent once they were inside the Death Star's defensive shields? Just a few volleys of their supposedly gigaton-level weapons would have been enough to vaporize the Death Star outright. There were no shields on the Death Star's surface; neither the rebel fighters nor the Star Destoryer that crashed into it encountered anything except hull, and Luke would never have made that shot into the vent in the first place if there were.

Or how about anakin highjacking that fighter in Phantom menace and taking it aboard the Trade federation vessel? Now remember, this is a space fighter, and would have had its weapons calibrated to do as much damage to an enemy vessel as possible. If the Star Wars boosters are right, to have any chance of damaging the Empire's supposedly powerful shields, its weapons would need an energy yield at least equivalent to a multi-megaton nuclear bomb. But Anakin fires that fighters' weapons INSIDE the federation ship, with no shields anywhere, and amazingly not only is the ship not vaporized instantly, but most of the bay is left intact, as if someone had simply thrown a few grenades around.The 200 GT number was for heavy capitol ship guns, not the weapons on fighters. The heavy guns on star destroyers are described are being 50 meters long - since the gun is a lot bigger than an entire fighter, of course it will probably have more punch than the fighter's weapons. Trying to compare the heavy turbo-lasers on a star destroyer to the weapons on a fighter is like trying to compare the .50 caliber machine guns on a P-51 fighter to a 12-inch naval gun.
Sorry, claims of weapon energies of up to 200 megatons just do not add up with all the evidence shown on screen.There are actually very few examples of SW heavy turbo lasers hitting unshielded targets. The only ones that come to mind are the asteroid scene in The Empire Strikes Back and a scene of a star destroyer being hit in Return Of the Jedi. The asteroids were all completely vaporized in a single hit, meaning that the power of the guns would have to be in the kiloton range, minimum. In 'Jedi there's a scene of a (apparently undamaged) star destroyer being hit by a single shot, which results in it being completely blown apart. There might very well be others that I'm forgetting, so feel free to correct me if I'm missing some.

There were no shields on the Death Star's surface; neither the rebel fighters nor the Star Destoryer that crashed into it encountered anything except hull, and Luke would never have made that shot into the vent in the first place if there were. Here's the problem with this: 'Wars shields, for the most part(I'm sure there's some exceptions) are designed against the energy weapons in general use. You remember the big battle scene on Naboo in Episode one? The blaster cannons weren't doing anything to the sheilds the Gungans had up. But the droids marched right through. What happened in A New Hope was that the fighters flew below the deflector shields, allowing them to shoot stuff. If you go back and watch it again, you'll note that they talk about shooting at deflector towers, which generate the shields.

I just remembered, there are exceptions. Shield technology is used as a permeable barrier for space docks and such, like in 'Trek. The big difference I see is that there's no difference in 'Trek shields, which means that Luke's trick wouldn't work against the Enterprise.

Nasor, in the same fashion that "fancy technology" doesn't show superiority (your point not mine), sheer power doesn't necessarily demonstrate it too. Phasers are better than turbo-lasers because the Empire has NO defense against it. They defend against lasers with static shielding or sheer hull mass, phasers will cut through those like wet paper. In an all out brawl, I might concede that the sheer power of the turbo lasers might cause radiation damage and even casualties after a while, but all that while phasers, (FTL) photon torpedos, quantum torpedos, transphasic torpedos, antimatter spreads, deflector arrays, cloaking devices etc will give the Federation a distinct edge.
That aside, the Federation is just as deadly as the Empire, they just don't allow it on TV. Look up the secret service Section 31 of the Federation, eg one of their agents reprogrammed Voyager to kill everyone who didn't seek the interests of the Federation (ie harboring Seven of Nine), look up the Genesis device, where refined into a waveform would forcibly terraform a planet and everyone on it...actually it would transform the Death Star and Death Star II into bio-mush and nothing stops it. Look up the Warp cannon, used on Deep Space 10, power to vaporize a Borg Cube in one shot. Nuff said on that.

By the way Nasor, the gamma rays thing, you're grasping at straws. Gamma radiation explosions and laser beams are NOT the same, and you know it, trying to make them appear synonymous won't work...and btw doing that was your use of "technobabble" while telling me not to.
Trek shields do afford some protection against photon torpedos and quantum torpedos. It is constant bombardment and warp sustainer engine on the torpedos that will allow the torpedos to get thru, and the gamma ray blast is the destructive force on the ship's hull

Nasor, in the same fashion that "fancy technology" doesn't show superiority (your point not mine), sheer power doesn't necessarily demonstrate it too. Phasers are better than turbo-lasers because the Empire has NO defense against it. They defend against lasers with static shielding or sheer hull mass, phasers will cut through those like wet paper.Don't be silly. You have absolutely no idea what would happen when phasers hit shields or armor from SW, since no one has any idea how SW shields actually work. Perhaps they would pass right through. Perhaps the Empire uses turbo-lasers instead of phasers because their shields and armor render phaser weapons useless. There's no way to tell. The fact remains, however, that Imperial weapons are unquestionably more destructive than Federation weapons. Once again, I find it necessary to point out that they can make 48,000 billion gigaton energy cannons. The federation can’t even dream of a weapon that destructive.
That aside, the Federation is just as deadly as the Empire, they just don't allow it on TV. Look up the secret service Section 31 of the Federation, eg one of their agents reprogrammed Voyager to kill everyone who didn't seek the interests of the Federation (ie harboring Seven of Nine)I rather seriously doubt that Section 31 is more ruthless than the Empire.
look up the Genesis device, where refined into a waveform would forcibly terraform a planet and everyone on it...actually it would transform the Death Star and Death Star II into bio-mush and nothing stops it.I don't believe the Federation has the genesis device any more. As I recall from the movie, all the information relating to it was destroyed by Kahn, all the scientists who knew about it died, and the only prototype was detonated. If the federation still has it, why don't they ever use it? Or even mention it?
Look up the Warp cannon, used on Deep Space 10, power to vaporize a Borg Cube in one shot. Nuff said on that.Yeah, I looked up the specs on DS10, but the only info that I could find on it seems to be from some sort of role-playing game. You realize, don't you, that the Empire has an entire class of ship (the Executor class) that's significantly larger than that station? And that they have a lot of them, while the federation only has one DS10? And that DS10 can't actually go anywhere?
By the way Nasor, the gamma rays thing, you're grasping at straws. Gamma radiation explosions and laser beams are NOT the same, and you know it, trying to make them appear synonymous won't work...and btw doing that was your use of "technobabble" while telling me not to.Ok, time for a basic physics lesson. Gamma rays, x-rays, infra-red, etc. are all just light at various frequencies. Any light-based weapon (an antimatter explosive, laser, or whatever) works by transferring photonic energy into the target, which increases the kinetic energy of the target's particles - melting things, vaporizing things, or blowing off electrons. It's doesn't matter where the light comes from. Lasers and antimatter bombs are both just devices for exposing a target to a lot of light in a very short time. Indeed, it theoretically possible with our modern-day technology to make lasers that operate in the x-ray and gamma ray range. If federation shields can be damaged by photon torpedoes then they should also be vulnerable to lasers.

Actualy, matter/antimatter explosions create a release of energy that is a combination of gamma rays, neutrinos, antineutrinos, and pions. I can't remember the exact proportions, but the gamma rays and pions dominate the energy release. Gamma rays are high energy electromagnetic radiation; pions are highly charged heavy particles. A defense that works well against one will not necessarily work well against the other.

Secondly, force fields in both universes are assumed to be walls of energy, or to put it another way, walls of one energy particle or another held in place by some quantum field effect. Thing is, every particle in the universe vibrates at a specific frequency and as a result all force fields have a frequency by default beyond any given it by its operational machinery.

So this means that there are frequency "windows" of vulnerability in both sides' defenses. Unfortunately for SW, the ST ships have clearly shown the ability to alter the frequency of their weapons (both phasers and torpedoes) and their shields to compensate for an enemy's capabilities. SW, whatever the nature of the particles they're using in their force fields, basically uses shields as Big Dumb Barriers. It doesn't matter how strong the SW shields supposedly are (and I really don't think they're THAT strong), if a ST ship has time to analyze SW technology (and given ST's magical sesnors, this would take minutes at best) they'll quickly find the frequency windows they need.

I'll give a point to SW, tho, in that I do think the Imperial ships turbolasers, while nowhere near the gigaton-yield range that some claim, could still hurt ST ships at least as well as a phaser. In "The Outrageous Okona", where Worf sneered at the "primitive laser" fired at the Enterprise with no effect, the shots came from a small-one man craft. SW ships, no matter their other lackings, are not want in straight-out firepower. The could pack a lot of raw energy onto a Federation ship's shields in a very short time, even if from a more "primitive" laser technology, enough so that the ST ships would at least have to take them seriously as a potential threat.

Whoa.

Remeber, we're NOT talking about the Federation vs. the Empire. We're talking about the Star Trek UNIVERSE vs the Star Wars UNIVERSE. In the former case, the Federation is only a small part of that universe. In the latter, the Empire is pretty much all of it.

While the Feds would undoubtedly play as nice as they could, the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Dominion, the Borg, the Ferengi, the Gorn, the Kazon, the Delta Quadrant Dinosaurs, the Talosians, the Shelliac Corporate, the Metrons, the Tholians, the Excalbians (yes I had to look most of those up), etc, etc, would not. Heck, all the Empire would have to do is piss off the "Douwd" guy from TNG episode "The Survivors" and he'd wipe the entire Empire from existence in the blink of an eye just like he did fifty billion Husnock. The only other major power I'd imagine who'd try to be nice are the Organians, and Q would probably bitch-slap them for ruining the fun.


Once again, I find it necessary to point out that they can make 48,000 billion gigaton energy cannons

The Empire needed a moon-sized battlestation to blow up a planet. Doctor Soran needed a fifteen-foot rocket to blow up a sun. The Dominion did him one better on an episode of DS9 and used a shoebox-sized device, using the exact same technology as Soran's device, to try and destroy Bajor's sun. In the TNG episode "The Chase" a completely run of the mill Klingon bird of prey rendered an entire planet lifeless in less than two minutes with a quantum particle chain reaction. The ST races don't need ludicrous amounts of firepower; they have access to technologies far more destructive for a tiny fraction of the Death Star's energy investment.

Even if the SW folks want to limit we ST folks to the Federation, the Federation isn't only comprised of us redshirt humans :) , the Feds can rely on the Klingons and Deltans for relentlessness, Vulcans and Betazoids to battle "the Force" and heck for all his mischief, Q wouldn't allow his favourite Capitaine to fall victim to puny lasers. Ah, and thank you Dhusk for pointing out finesse can easly match raw power (trilithium weapons rule lol). And againt thank you Dhusk for bringing an end to the laser vs gamma rays business.

Nasor, do you think strategists would install a single warp cannon on a single station? Try going to the major Fed planets and see if the Executor makes it 1 parsec closer... just to draw a point, I don't even think Shinzon would have made it to Earth in "Nemesis", Section 31 is big on spying other-worldly technology and building hefty defenses against them for strategic locations. Oh and yes Section 31 are ruthless, they were willing to kill Captain Picard in order to keep themselves safe and secret.

Oh and the Genesis device is kept secret at Fed HQ, plus the scientist responsible was kidnapped for a 4 part story where Genesis was deployed as a weapon, this is in Picard's era, after Kirk encountered it first.

The Empire needed a moon-sized battlestation to blow up a planet. Doctor Soran needed a fifteen-foot rocket to blow up a sun. The Dominion did him one better on an episode of DS9 and used a shoebox-sized device, using the exact same technology as Soran's device, to try and destroy Bajor's sun. In the TNG episode "The Chase" a completely run of the mill Klingon bird of prey rendered an entire planet lifeless in less than two minutes with a quantum particle chain reaction. The ST races don't need ludicrous amounts of firepower; they have access to technologies far more destructive for a tiny fraction of the Death Star's energy investment.I wasn’t trying to claim that the Empire has a monopoly on the ability to wipe out a planet. I kept bringing up the death star’s super-laser because it’s irrefutable proof that the Empire’s weapons are far more advanced than the Federations, even though Enterprise-D refuses to admit it. Even if you scale the fire power of the death star down to the size of a standard star destroyer, you’re still looking at vastly more ship-killing power than a federation ship has ever demonstrated.
Nasor, do you think strategists would install a single warp cannon on a single station? Try going to the major Fed planets and see if the Executor makes it 1 parsec closer... just to draw a point, I don't even think Shinzon would have made it to Earth in "Nemesis", Section 31 is big on spying other-worldly technology and building hefty defenses against them for strategic locations. Oh and yes Section 31 are ruthless, they were willing to kill Captain Picard in order to keep themselves safe and secret.

Oh and the Genesis device is kept secret at Fed HQ, plus the scientist responsible was kidnapped for a 4 part story where Genesis was deployed as a weapon, this is in Picard's era, after Kirk encountered it first.Where are you getting all this? I don't recall ever seeing 'warp cannons' or DS10 in any 'trek episodes.

You know thats great and what ever but .... all i have to say is ... Sun Crusher!! Whooo

Where are you getting all this? I don't recall ever seeing 'warp cannons' or DS10 in any 'trek episodes. Where's the smack head smilie when you need it? It's been mentioned several times in this thread alone, that both universes have complete role playing systems and hordes of books in addition to the series/movies. Look them up on Amazon.

Where's the smack head smilie when you need it? It's been mentioned several times in this thread alone, that both universes have complete role playing systems and hordes of books in addition to the series/movies. Look them up on Amazon.I really doubt that any of the 'trek fans here want to drag in stuff from the role playing games, novels, etc. If that's the case, then I'm sure the Empire will be using their Eclipse class star dreadnaughts. They're each 17 km long and armed with a death star style super-laser...