They have taken a beating over the centuries for various reasons, but can we really assign so much contempt to one people? I've know a couple Jews in my time (a production worker and a doctor), and they didn't seem like bad people. Why have they been associated with such terrible intentions?

Because they believe that they are God's chosen people.

Because they believe that they are God's chosen people.

Thats not right at all. I'm Jewish and sure my religion says I am chosen by G-d, but that doesn't mean i shove it in other people's faces.

The reason why is because the Jews possess a sort of image survival instinct developed over millennia of oppression. The best way to stay safe isn't to become friends with the country your in, friendships can be betrayed and in a world of lies it's just not concrete enough. What you need to do is to make it in the best interests of the country not to hate you.

So Jews eventually start loaning money and trying to gain a foothold in the economy. When bad times come people always blame the ones well off, the ones well off claim it's the Jews since they are also well off so they fit the bill as viable scapegoats.

My theory is, they have managed to retain a nationalism mixed with race and religion that has survived 2 thousand years of displacement, genocide and oppression.

That certainly weeds out the weak. What is left is a generally capable demographic. I personally think it very foolish, they often flaunt their wealth and gifts...it is usually only the poor Jew that pays in blood when the times go bad...

I don't want to start an argument and I'm not directing this at anyone of the people that make up other religions but am addressing this with only a fact finding outcome. Some religions want to control everyone and make them cow tow to their way of thinking and anyone that goes against that way of thinking is automatically considered a person against that religion. So since there are some very largely populated religious businesses that want to get everyone paying them instead of some other religions they will condemn others in any way they can only to keep others from joining and trying to get some of the others within the Hebrew religion to "switch" teams. If they don't then they are castigated and ridiculed forever.:mad:

Thats not right at all. I'm Jewish and sure my religion says I am chosen by G-d, but that doesn't mean i shove it in other people's faces



The reason why is because the Jews possess a sort of image survival instinct developed over millennia of oppression. The best way to stay safe isn't to become friends with the country your in, friendships can be betrayed and in a world of lies it's just not concrete enough. What you need to do is to make it in the best interests of the country not to hate you.



So Jews eventually start loaning money and trying to gain a foothold in the economy. When bad times come people always blame the ones well off, the ones well off claim it's the Jews since they are also well off so they fit the bill as viable scapegoats.

I believe if the Jew will Assimilate he will not be persecuted because he will be part of the masses. Once he separate from the masses he will be identified and he will be under observation.
I believe an other error Jews have made they did not evangelized , If the would evangelized their group would be larger and the local society would accept them

I believe if the Jew will Assimilate he will not be persecuted because he will be part of the masses. Once he separate from the masses he will be identified and he will be under observation.
I believe an other error Jews have made they did not evangelized , If the would evangelized their group would be larger and the local society would accept them

Assimilation means becoming Christian, so what's the point? If the Jew does assimilate then they are no longer Jewish.

I don't think it's necessary anymore, god is dead(or dying) Christians do not rule the roost. The only danger Jews have right now, is getting the blame for the coming bank failures.

My theory is, they have managed to retain a nationalism mixed with race and religion that has survived 2 thousand years of displacement, genocide and oppression.

That certainly weeds out the weak. What is left is a generally capable demographic. I personally think it very foolish, they often flaunt their wealth and gifts...it is usually only the poor Jew that pays in blood when the times go bad...

they flaunt their wealth and gifts?

For starters what do you mean gifts exactly? Do you think that they had it easy? That they didn't have to run away from death and then claw their way back up in a new country just to put bread on the table? They didn't have it easy nietzsch lets be realistic here.

And how do they flaunt their wealth exactly?

Since you didn't read my post(s) carefully enough, I'm not replying that. Try again if you want me to.

They have taken a beating over the centuries for various reasons, but can we really assign so much contempt to one people? I've know a couple Jews in my time (a production worker and a doctor), and they didn't seem like bad people. Why have they been associated with such terrible intentions?

Because they dare not to be Christians.

Thats not right at all. I'm Jewish and sure my religion says I am chosen by G-d, but that doesn't mean i shove it in other people's faces.


You don't have to shove your chosenness into anyone's face.

People know what Jews believe about themselves, and this is enough to treat them with suspicion.

Assimilation means becoming Christian, so what's the point? If the Jew does assimilate then they are no longer Jewish.



What is the difference between Jew and Christian ? the first Christian were Jews only the name changed from The way >>> Nasazrum >>> christian , As far I see it The Nazarim are in existence they are circumcised , the only difference they believe in Yashua, which is Jesus.
Otherwise a christian is a Jew he believes in the bible a christian is an adapted Jew.

Since you didn't read my post(s) carefully enough, I'm not replying that. Try again if you want me to.



Who are you talking about ?

What is the difference between Jew and Christian ? the first Christian were Jews only the name changed from The way >>> Nasazrum >>> christian , As far I see it The Nazarim are in existence they are circumcised , the only difference they believe in Yashua, which is Jesus.
Otherwise a christian is a Jew he believes in the bible a christian is an adapted Jew.

Jews put their sins on a chicken and then kill it. Christians put their sins on a man that was killed.

Jews put their sins on a chicken and then kill it. Christians put their sins on a man that was killed.



I don't think think they put them on animals any more , I think it changed to a candle The Catholics do the same , as matter of fact Catholics are more inclined to the old Jewish rituals , except the business of worshiping Mary and other saints , Judaism have changed through time and now Protestants are closer to Judaism , specially the seven day Adventist, since the celebrate Shabbas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6hQo0YMYwY

So Jews might tend to be dismissive of the value of Jesus as a sacrifice, since an ordinary chicken can serve the same purpose.

Thats not right at all. I'm Jewish and sure my religion says I am chosen by G-d, but that doesn't mean i shove it in other people's faces.

The reason why is because the Jews possess a sort of image survival instinct developed over millennia of oppression. The best way to stay safe isn't to become friends with the country your in, friendships can be betrayed and in a world of lies it's just not concrete enough. What you need to do is to make it in the best interests of the country not to hate you.

So Jews eventually start loaning money and trying to gain a foothold in the economy. When bad times come people always blame the ones well off, the ones well off claim it's the Jews since they are also well off so they fit the bill as viable scapegoats.

Lets do an analysis while we got the chance . See I believe the banking industry and the whole Idea of paper money came from Jewish culture . Something the white man latched onto during the crusades . I also believe the Jewish people take the brunt of the ill effects of the system We ALL adopted as a model of doing business . It was brilliant to say the least . It is one of the great things that allowed burdens to be lifted off Mankind as a whole.

The thing is it has boiled down to dictation . Power structures and the likes . Well you know how it is when the clingers are emotional babies . You got to tell em what to do. They don't know . So analysis what our Jewish heritage friend just said . Notice how he uses the word interest . See that is all part of Jewish culture . They take care of there own un like some peoples.In fact

It is true they are there own circle of influence and they have a very strong identity from the world persecuting them . I do believe that is what Hitler used as a tool to kill em all . White supremest use the same thing as there shit stir. The expert banking Financing abilities.
Then there is the thing of who is really Jewish just like the Arabs that S.A.M. educated us on if any you hill billys saw that . That Friggin S.A.M. what a girl . I love here for her contributions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6hQo0YMYwY

So Jews might tend to be dismissive of the value of Jesus as a sacrifice, since an ordinary chicken can serve the same purpose.

I am not an ordinary chicken Spidey. I am an Eagle . A wing of a Great House. I don't got my eagle feather in my hand yet but the native man said I have one in spirit so blah to Yo Chick ass getting . It is illegal to posses an Eagle Feather . I would have one if it was not for that

You all do know the red heifer is still around don't you . Long haired red Heifer .
I got pictures .
Your all so disconnected from the Memes you got know Idea what I am talking about? It would be nice if you could fill Me in on the Joke . I am beginning to think you all don't have a clue . Fuck I don't mean that as an insult .

If you enlighten me that would be great cause the joke is not that funny to Me . A little bit , All a long the watch tower funny maybe , It makes Me a little anxious

Not quite sure how to respond...

I am not an ordinary chicken Spidey. I am an Eagle . A wing of a Great House. I don't got my eagle feather in my hand yet but the native man said I have one in spirit so blah to Yo Chick ass getting . It is illegal to posses an Eagle Feather . I would have one if it was not for that

Really? I thought you were a cuckoo bard.

Notice how he uses the word interest . See that is all part of Jewish culture.

a play on words? what are you trying to say? Jews are greedy, money hungry???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6hQo0YMYwY

So Jews might tend to be dismissive of the value of Jesus as a sacrifice, since an ordinary chicken can serve the same purpose.



God said through the prophet Isaiah " don't bring me the offering of your burn blood on incense of animals , bring me a clean heart help to the poor and the needy "
But this guys continue with that bill , they probably don't read their bible . they just follow the old tradition. what a shame.

a play on words? what are you trying to say? Jews are greedy, money hungry???

Not at all. I am saying they made a great contribution to the world stage . We all adopted there contribution and that should speak for it self cause even you buy into it when you taste the abundance of America . I mean really ? What do we lack . It is fucking paradise . Think about it the next time you drink a cup of coffee . That all happened so Me in the far north can have a cup at my will .

FINANCE made that happen . Setting aside for the moment that another group came up with the coffee and deserve major credit . It comes to my front door ultimately because of Jewish laws of Finance . It is what makes the goods go round. The housing bubble broke those laws of Finance. All Jewish People in the know of business know that . We talked about at length. Said what the fuck those white boys doing . That Barny Frank and George Bush are a fucking riot . There will be riots when the shit hits the fan They gonna get the world in deep shit. Well who was right .

Barney Frank? He's one of the good ones...

Barney Frank? He's one of the good ones...

Believe it or not ! Barny put into play what bush promoted . You still don't know that Spidey . Bush said after the tech stock bubble " Get into real estate . The money fled to real estate . It was already moving that direction and he pushed it along by his presidential guidance . Barny Frank with Freddie Mac and Fannie May made it happen . Credit was eased in the housing industry . Stated income ways of qualifying went into effect . Other banks in order to do business had to compete with the new guide lines or get froze out of the market . They adopted the old true and tried ways of Finance. Jewish leaders not in Modern day banking they didn't do it . I know some heavy hitters and they were just as shocked as I was and your good old buddy Barney as nice as guy he is and how cares for the down trodden was right promoting the violation we live with today . The rule of thumb that all banking professionals and creative financing people know is House Payment is equal to 1/4 of your monthly income . Now if not over financed already then the percentage can be adjusted to 33% . That is the maximum. We are not even touching on Private Mortgage Insurance schemes that allow 100% financing with out any collateral buffer .

Your disassociated with your culture Spidey . A rejection . . Not that that is bad . You are an American after all. Many cultures in one

See the thing is I learned it all from Jewish Culture Via My Dad. He was the real estate man for the Jewish Federation in California based out of San Fransisco . Ah yeah spent mush time learning acceptable sustaining practices of Finance right from the horses Mouth .

How do you think I was able to grow more net worth than I have made in my life time ? It is not easy and most people just piss it away on trinkets .

Were do think the 10% savings way of growing wealth came from ?

You're wrong about that. Housing the poor had nothing to do with this crisis. All the problems came from the top down.

I reject all culture. Culture is the fossilization of ideas.

You're wrong about that. Housing the poor had nothing to do with this crisis. All the problems came from the top down.

I reject all culture. Culture is the fossilization of ideas.

Culture is what we have to fall back on when consumerism and fractional reserve banking fail us. Which should happen any time now.

Culture is what we have to fall back on when consumerism and fractional reserve banking fail us. Which should happen any time now.

Quotable!

Why is there suspicion, fear and hatred of Jews? Simple. They're an isolated, outnumbered and demonstrably different demographic.

Welcome to humanity.

They have taken a beating over the centuries for various reasons, but can we really assign so much contempt to one people? I've know a couple Jews in my time (a production worker and a doctor), and they didn't seem like bad people. Why have they been associated with such terrible intentions?

I don't know that they are associated with such terrible intentions. Are you sure you aren't confusing people who practice the Jewish religion with those who believe in Zionism?

Remember, not all Christians are white supremacists, and not all Muslims are jihadists.

I don't know that they are associated with such terrible intentions. Are you sure you aren't confusing people who practice the Jewish religion with those who believe in Zionism?

Remember, not all Christians are white supremacists, and not all Muslims are jihadists.

No, I'm just recognizing that they have been the object of negative associations throughout history. The Zionist argument probably has a place in there, among other things. I have never fully understood it myself.

There were two phenomena during the Dark Ages that reinforced hatred of Jews in Europe. One was the Plague. Remember that at this time Christians believed that bathing, or immersing oneself in water in any way, was wicked and a sign of diabolical influence. Add to that the fact that they had let the sewers fall into disrepair, one of Rome's most fabulous engineering achievements, and you've got a continent full of filthy people and polluted water. They didn't even bother cleaning their streets, just ran a herd of pigs through town occasionally to eat the garbage and turn it into pig shit. This environment was ripe for the Plague.

The Jews, on the other hand, always believed in cleanliness and hygiene. Their shtetls were considerably cleaner than the surrounding Gentile communities, and the same can be said for the people themselves.

You can guess where this is going. A considerably smaller portion of the Jewish population of Europe was killed by the Plague than the Gentile population. Obviously they must be in league with the Devil, especially since there were rumors that they had been seen bathing.

The other event has to do with a mistranslation of the Bible. There's a passage in Hebrew that identifies usury (loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate) as a sin, but the Christian translations of the Old Testament rendered that word as simply loaning money at any interest rate.

This made it impossible for people who had surplus wealth to invest their money: it would be sinful to earn interest! So they might as well dissipate it on champagne and hookers. (Oh wait, perhaps those are sins too. I haven't read the Bible, Mein Kampf, or the Communist Manifesto, all for the same reason.)

However, the Jews, who pride themselves on literacy so they can read the Bible for themselves and not trust a priest to interpret it accurately, knew better. They were happy to loan out their money for interest. And notice that while the Christians believed it was a sin to loan money, apparently it was not a sin to borrow it.

So--is everybody now saying "duh" in unison?--the Jews ended up being Europe's bankers. That's an easy way to get everybody to hate you, even today.

Because they believe that they are God's chosen people.

They literaly are. In the time of the mighty Egyptian empire, when they were enslaved or even sacraficed for not believing in Egyptian deities, the Isralies stood up and said NO, we will stand up for what we believe, we will not kneel down and do it your way. They had great faith in God, and he blessed them by getting them out of tyrany. God didn't choose them, THEY chose him.

Because they believe that they are God's chosen people.

They literaly are.
Er,

God didn't choose them, THEY chose him.
Then they literally aren't.
:rolleyes:

What about there Prince Michael,l King of the Universe , What you think they think about that ?

The other event has to do with a mistranslation of the Bible. There's a passage in Hebrew that identifies usury (loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate) as a sin, but the Christian translations of the Old Testament rendered that word as simply loaning money at any interest rate.

Early christians, indeed, even pure of heart people today, know that usury is ugly, dirty, nasty and immoral. Christians care about more than just the OT.
- - - - -
The poorest of the poor will have to take out a car loan, just to get to work, at a huge amount of interest, and be paying it out forever, just so he can go to work to feed his children.

Meanwhile, the millionaire will have his money sitting in the bank and that interest will be essentially be transferred to his account and the banker (jew?:p) will make a little profit too.

And the worst part of this whole exchange, is the guy using his in hock car to get to work to feed his kids? He is probably doing an essential service like cooking the restaurant food or building the roads for the banker and the guy with the savings account.

He's the one that long haired radical hippy was speaking to. And all those money changers and OCW street protestors down on wallstreet. Even if people don't want to be christians, it's still wise to heed wisdom where it is written.

39. "You have heard it said: 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
40. "But I say to you, exercise justice according to the natural laws of Creation, so that you find the
verdict in logic.
41. "Offer your love wherever it is warranted, and punish wherever the law of nature demands
punishment.
42. "Give to them who ask of you, if they make their requests in honesty, and turn away from them
who want to borrow from you in a dishonest way.
43. "You have heard it said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
44. "However, I say to you: Practice love and understanding according to the natural laws of
Creation, so that through logic you find the right action and perception.

interest and appreciation is what has saved my life . A poor person don't have very many advantages in life . Investment in profitable enterprises is one that can propel you to safety financially. To have that feeling of security is a good feeling in a dog eat dog world we live in .

That I would end the whole monetary system that I would . I really can't quite rap my brain around that being the reason people activate into activities of human endeavors . We could do it for the fun of it !

What would you do if you had financial security ? After you had your fill of margaritas and dancing nights ? Or if you had your government cubical and a health /food ration card . Would you sit around watching Oprah? Spend all your time posting on forums ?

Work can be fun and fun can be work . Think about that !


Interest ? The art of selling Money . It is a necessary evil of doing business in the modern world . I look forward to the future when that is no longer necessary. Humanity will get there one day . I can see it in our future . The brass ring is close at hand . I know I am not alone and many of you can feel it in your gut that this is the future . The day we can shit can monetary stock piling . Dump monetary systems all together. You can't handle it yet so you all should be thankful to the Jew for coming up with an alternative to just letting you starve . God knows we let plenty others starve as it is .

Lets pray for the day to come quick so our offspring don't have to live with the misery of punching clocks . Kissing Time good bye in big sky country

They literally are. In the time of the mighty Egyptian empire, when they were enslaved or even sacraficed for not believing in Egyptian deities, the Isralies stood up and said NO, we will stand up for what we believe, we will not kneel down and do it your way. They had great faith in God, and he blessed them by getting them out of tyrany. God didn't choose them, THEY chose him.You're a little bit behind the information curve. Recent anthropological research indicates that the traditional legend about the "bondage in Egypt" (of which there are zero contemporary records!) is merely a case of a good story being made better over generations of oral repetition. Evidence suggests that the Jews in Egypt were not slaves at all but what we call "migrant workers" in English or Gastarbeiter in German.

There was work to do in Egypt. Lots of work. Work on a scale never seen by the people of that era. The building of the pyramids was one of the largest construction projects ever undertaken by mankind, and tens of thousands of laborers were required to turn it from a dream in the Pharaoh's mind into reality.

This was the Early Bronze Age. Life was hard. When the call came out for laborers to build the pyramids, to be paid in food and shelter--no matter how minimal--people came running from all over the region to sign up. There was no need to enslave them, they wanted the work!

On a related note, a project like this requires a hierarchy of management and it appears that Jews held a proportional share of supervisory duties. Other evidence indicates that they were instrumental in the spread of the Egyptian writing system to other countries. It had already changed from a system of logograms (each symbol representing an individual word, as in Chinese) to an abjad (a phonetic alphabet with no vowels) and it lent itself perfectly to the other languages of the Afro-Asiatic family (Phoenician, Aramaic, Hebrew, etc.) in which vowels are not important. Today all phonetic alphabets and abjads (not abugidas like Hindi or syllabaries like Cherokee) except Korean trace their ancestry to Egyptian.

I suggest you Google "Jews Egypt slavery" to review this mountain of new research for yourself. Here's a typical article. (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191) I just grabbed this at random, I have not checked its references and have no idea if its scholarship is of the highest quality. It's just one of a great many on the subject.

Like nearly all the key events in Judeo-Christian-Muslim mythology, it looks like the "exile" is just one more fairytale.

Early christians, indeed, even pure of heart people today, know that usury is ugly, dirty, nasty and immoral. Christians care about more than just the OT. The poorest of the poor will have to take out a car loan, just to get to work, at a huge amount of interest, and be paying it out forever, just so he can go to work to feed his children.If the person who loans him the money to buy that car doesn't charge interest, then how is he to gather the capital to build the factories that make the cars and the farms that raise the food? Duh?

You obviously never took even the most basic course in economics. Until you do, I suggest that you keep quiet rather than continue to embarrass yourself in this community of scholars.
Meanwhile, the millionaire will have his money sitting in the bank and that interest will be essentially be transferred to his account and the banker (jew?:p) will make a little profit too.As I said, you have not the faintest understanding of how an economy works. That money does not "sit in a bank." It is being lent out to other people to start businesses, including the "business" of sending children to college so they can become prosperous adults who help make civilization even better, a "business" your parents obviously did not practice. It is being spent on the building of factories, warehouses, computer networks and stores, not to mention paying the salaries of their workers.

I agree that many of today's American businessmen have become scavengers instead of producers and don't contribute as much to the economy as their predecessors. See my recent post in the Business and Economics subforum on the financialization of the commodities market, for example. (Oh forget it. You couldn't possibly understand it.)

But this temporary aberration does not indict the model of a capital-driven economy, which in a few short centuries has raised the entire world up out of the abject poverty (and the thirty-year life expectancy) of the pre-industrial era. It's working just fine in China. Starting below a zero point with millions of citizens starving to death, their per-capita GDP has increased by a factor of eight since the demise of Mao. And, btw, unreformed socialists like yourself now hate the Chinese more than the Jews.

I don't usually respond to posts you direct at me. They are so often filled with personal attacks, hatred and condescension. But I'll give it a go this once, just to let you know I read what you say and do consider what you say. You are very informed, that is certain, it's just your ideas are so outdated and informed by fear.


If the person who loans him the money to buy that car doesn't charge interest, then how is he to gather the capital to build the factories that make the cars and the farms that raise the food? Duh?


I don't believe that "money" is a true indicator of capital. The most valuable capital that has ever been, or ever will be is the creative potential of the human mind, and the human spirit. If you can't think of any other way for humanity to advance with out the use of this theft, that's your problem, not mine.

“Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal—that there is no human relation between master and slave.”
—Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer

http://www.in5d.com/images/pyramid-of-insanity.jpg
click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A)

I don't usually respond to posts you direct at me. They are so often filled with personal attacks, hatred and condescension. But I'll give it a go this once, just to let you know I read what you say and do consider what you say. You are very informed, that is certain, it's just your ideas are so outdated and informed by fear.

Uh - you're posting links about Jewish conspiracies and Masonic world domination, and he's the one with ideas "outdated and informed by fear"?

Uh - you're posting links about Jewish conspiracies and Masonic world domination, and he's the one with ideas "outdated and informed by fear"?

How? Did you view the link? Where did I imply anything about a "jewish" conspiracy? If you read my previous posts, I think I made my position regarding the distinction between the practitioners of the jewish religion, and adherents to zionist philosophy quite clear. :shrug:

I don't think an end to slavery is something to fear, I think it is a hopeful dawning to a new age for humanity. :) People despise zionism because they despise bigotry, slavery and genocide. People use fear to justify it.

You connected Jews with banking as if they were synonymous, and also placed high ranking Jews as the Masters on your pyramid of slavery, as if Jews rule the world. Both of these are typical anti-semitic points of propaganda.

You connected Jews with banking as if they were synonymous, and also placed high ranking Jews as the Masters on your pyramid of slavery, as if Jews rule the world. Both of these are typical anti-semitic points of propaganda.

Jews are connected with banking. There are some very powerful jewish families that basically control banking. It's is just a fact and it's not even a conspiracy, they were simply allowed to do it when Christians said nobody but them could do it. The "Gentiles" basically killed the Templars(old bankers), Lubed up and shoved their asses upon the Jews. Perhaps they thought they could kill them off too when the debts got too high...wait a second...things that make you go hmmm...

hmmm?

How? Did you view the link? Where did I imply anything about a "jewish" conspiracy? If you read my previous posts, I think I made my position regarding the distinction between the practitioners of the jewish religion, and adherents to zionist philosophy quite clear. :shrug:

Did you notice one of the symbols on the pic you posted? It's not a ninja star.

Nonsense. Some Jews are in banking and lots and lots of other people are also in banking. It's just that the Jews get attention because they happen to be Jews.

Yes lots of other people are in banking, but not like the old families. Yes some of the old families are not Jewish. Just most of them. As time goes on...banking is less and less "jewish" dominated. In fact other than for appearances sake, these families could give a shit they are even Jewish(pay lip service to their race/origin).

Jews are connected with banking. There are some very powerful jewish families that basically control banking. It's is just a fact and it's not even a conspiracy, they were simply allowed to do it when Christians said nobody but them could do it. The "Gentiles" basically killed the Templars(old bankers), Lubed up and shoved their asses upon the Jews. Perhaps they thought they could kill them off too when the debts got too high...wait a second...things that make you go hmmm...

hmmm?

They didn't kill all of them and the Teutonic Nights were aligned with em . Underground with the disguise of associate orders . Speculation indeed but reasonable to think your friends and comrades in battle would protect there own . Think witness protection but a little less formal . There are plenty of multi national bankers now a days . You don't have to be Jewish to be a Banker . You do got to know shit loads about banking and by the day it is more complicated were even the smartest of Jewish peoples have to go to school and learn the fine arts of Banking .

O.K. it was King Charles the 12 King of Sweden I believe and Albreit Grothasen obtained loans from the Jewish underwriters to fund the Wars .
I don't think in the end the Swedes ever payed the Underwriters back . Yeah stiffed . I could be wrong and I do believe Sweden was in a situation like Greece is today . Circumstances were different but the broke dickness was the same. So Albriet was the go between to get the money . They got it .They fought . King Charles was a quite Man but he would watch the deal go down from afar as Albiet was wining and dining smooching up and getting the money. King Charles didn't believe in lavish banquets and probably was happy eating mush . He also road into battle at the front of the charge . Tall and stately and a man of Honor . A big Swede is what I picture .

I would of been in there getting me some good grub like Albriet my self , Course I imagine Him and I are distant relatives so yeah a chip off the old block

See that G in your pyramid, G's in exile rise to occasions . You understand the temple yet . Did someone build a house for God to live in ? A great house maybe ?

W.F.H. meeting was today and progress is happening . We gonna make you Americans look good for change . Tom Bodett already has . 1/2 a Million Haitians love him right now . Course his engineering expertise brings a lot credibility . Winning personality also helps

This is what they say . You can take all the wealth in the world and disperse the money and it will all end up in the same 5% of the peoples that originally had it . Why ? Cause they know how to manage money . They are the 5% that make it all happen .

Money is like a river . It flows threw people . I have seen millions go through my hands . Millions upon Millions . It is not my money . Sure I could of been more diligent about cutting out a big fat share for my self , but that is not were it is at . Fresh money is the ticket . It is what is done with the money . Like a river it carves out niches . Creates new avenues . Gives purpose to lives . Reasons to get out bed and do something

Because they dare not to be Christians.

right which is why a christian country was called paradisus Iudaeorum oh that right because for the most part it doesn't have shit to do with it.

There were two phenomena during the Dark Ages that reinforced hatred of Jews in Europe. One was the Plague. Remember that at this time Christians believed that bathing, or immersing oneself in water in any way, was wicked and a sign of diabolical influence. Add to that the fact that they had let the sewers fall into disrepair, one of Rome's most fabulous engineering achievements, and you've got a continent full of filthy people and polluted water. They didn't even bother cleaning their streets, just ran a herd of pigs through town occasionally to eat the garbage and turn it into pig shit. This environment was ripe for the Plague.

The Jews, on the other hand, always believed in cleanliness and hygiene. Their shtetls were considerably cleaner than the surrounding Gentile communities, and the same can be said for the people themselves.

You can guess where this is going. A considerably smaller portion of the Jewish population of Europe was killed by the Plague than the Gentile population. Obviously they must be in league with the Devil, especially since there were rumors that they had been seen bathing.

The other event has to do with a mistranslation of the Bible. There's a passage in Hebrew that identifies usury (loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate) as a sin, but the Christian translations of the Old Testament rendered that word as simply loaning money at any interest rate.

This made it impossible for people who had surplus wealth to invest their money: it would be sinful to earn interest! So they might as well dissipate it on champagne and hookers. (Oh wait, perhaps those are sins too. I haven't read the Bible, Mein Kampf, or the Communist Manifesto, all for the same reason.)

However, the Jews, who pride themselves on literacy so they can read the Bible for themselves and not trust a priest to interpret it accurately, knew better. They were happy to loan out their money for interest. And notice that while the Christians believed it was a sin to loan money, apparently it was not a sin to borrow it.

So--is everybody now saying "duh" in unison?--the Jews ended up being Europe's bankers. That's an easy way to get everybody to hate you, even today.
and than all the hate that should have normally been placed on bankers was placed on jews. yes it is true that jews are more likely to be in finace than other groups but greed has nothing to do with it. it has everything to do with christian stupidity.

There were periods of relative tolerance, but for the most part Christians hate anyone who isn't a Christian.

There were periods of relative tolerance, but for the most part Christians hate anyone who isn't a Christian.

Hmm... what do you think about people with a religion that says everyone but them is just wormfood while their God eventually collects them all.

I think such a religion would encourage separation and distrust.

Did you notice one of the symbols on the pic you posted? It's not a ninja star.

I did notice. I think that symbol can be used to symbolize more than one thing though. I didn't make the chart. I can interpret it however I wish. You can interpret it however you wish. I see that this symbol is in this pyramid twice. Once as the religion, once as the interest group representing zionism.

There were periods of relative tolerance, but for the most part Christians hate anyone who isn't a Christian.
Unsubstantiated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

I think such a religion would encourage separation and distrust.

Rimshot.

Religion, media, banking, and major government are all in their dying days.

Rimshot.

Just like a religion that said people of your religion killed your savior. It's all so stupid.

Jews are connected with banking. There are some very powerful jewish families that basically control banking. It's is just a fact and it's not even a conspiracy, they were simply allowed to do it when Christians said nobody but them could do it. The "Gentiles" basically killed the Templars(old bankers), Lubed up and shoved their asses upon the Jews. Perhaps they thought they could kill them off too when the debts got too high...wait a second...things that make you go hmmm...

hmmm?

Me-Ki-Gal is right. Only the Vatican switched their fiscal capital alliance from the Templars to the Zionists. My reading likewise suggests that the majority of the Templars went underground and moved their base of operations. Although they may have lost much of their assets and sacrificed some of their top leaders, I believe their knowledge, connections and power remained largely intact.

The key to finding the links between the Templars knowledge and elite bloodlines is the loss of history between the supposed destruction of the Templars, and the re-emergence of the gentile elite interest groups that replaced them. How are they connected?

For recommended reading I would suggest everything you can get a hold of about the historical accounts of the Anglo-Scottish wars. The crown was supported by the Zionists, the Scots by the exiled Templars.


There has long lived a legend about the day in Scotland long ago when the Scots defeated a much greater English host at Bannockburn. In recent years this legend has gathered a far stronger basis in fact. Fascinating historical detection by several authors appears to have restored the truth about those days long ago when the Templars were men on the run. These men did not just vanish from history without a trace after all, but continued to greatly affect and even shape its outcome.

When the Papal letter reached the hand of Robert the Bruce of Scotland to imprison the Templars, he summarily dismissed it. No effort at all was ever made to prosecute the Knighthood in Scotland and this was undoubtedly a major attraction to many noble Templars in hiding. Though perhaps no longer able to openly call themselves Templars, they appear to have continued to exercise real power in the world.

Scotland had suffered greatly at the hand of the English. Under Edward I they had been cruelly treated and their continued subjugation had been the cause for much bloodshed, most notably under the leadership of William Wallace. After Wallace's death, Robert the Bruce, a claimant to the Scottish throne took up his mantle and endeavored to once again free Scotland from England's yoke against Edward's son Edward II. Not nearly as able a leader as his father Edward II none the less had far superior forces and resources than did the Scots.

Edward's armies harried Bruce's army all about Scotland in an effort to exterminate the rebellion. Much evidence supports the belief that Robert the Bruce apparently welcomed renegade Templars into Scotland, both by overland journey from England, and as well as on ships from France. He was in great need of experienced and well equipped fighting men of this there is no doubt. The English outnumbered and out-eqquipped him badly, particularly when it came to armor and horse. Dispossessed of their lands and primary means of support, the Templars sought shelter anywhere they were well received. Such a place was Scotland.
http://home.gwi.net/ages/Main%20Body/History/Templar%20Origins.html

Not many people put one and one together and realize that Andrew Carnegie was a first generation immigrant from Scotland, probably from the family of a 33rd degree Scottish rite free mason. People have often commented in the media how all of our presidents are related by blood. What blood? Templar blood. Scottish Rite Freemasonry blood. It's not a conspiracy. . . it's just a genetic fact.


Presidents of Scottish or Scots-Irish descent

At least twenty three presidents of the United States have some Scottish or Scots-Irish ancestry, although the extent of this varies. For example, Ronald Reagan's great grandfather was a Scot and Woodrow Wilson’s maternal grandparents were both Scottish. To a lesser degree Bill Clinton, James K. Polk and Richard Nixon have less direct Scottish, Scots-Irish ancestry.

James Monroe (Scottish & Welsh)
5th President 1817-25: His paternal 2nd great-grandfather, Major Andrew Monroe who was descended from Robert Munro, 14th Baron of Foulis, chief of an ancient Scottish highland clan, emigrated to America from Scotland in the mid-17th century.
Andrew Jackson (Scots-Irish)
7th President 1829-37: : He was born in the predominantly Ulster-Scots Waxhaws area of South Carolina two years after his parents left Boneybefore, near Carrickfergus in County Antrim. A heritage centre in the village pays tribute to the legacy of 'Old Hickory', the People's President. Andrew Jackson then moved to Tennessee, where he served as Governor[47]
James Knox Polk (Scots-Irish)
11th President, 1845-49: His ancestors were among the first Ulster-Scots settlers, emigrating from Coleraine in 1680 to become a powerful political family in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina. He moved to Tennessee and became its governor before winning the presidency.[48]
James Buchanan (Scots-Irish)
15th President, 1857-61: Born in a log cabin (which has been relocated to his old school in Mercersburg, Pennsylvania), 'Old Buck' cherished his origins: "My Ulster blood is a priceless heritage". The Buchanans were originally from Deroran, near Omagh in County Tyrone where the ancestral home still stands.[48]
Andrew Johnson (Scots-Irish & English)
17th President, 1865-69: His grandfather left Mounthill, near Larne in County Antrim around 1750 and settled in North Carolina. Andrew worked there as a tailor and ran a successful business in Greeneville, Tennessee, before being elected Vice-President. He became President following Abraham Lincoln's assassination.[48]
Ulysses S. Grant (Scottish, Scots-Irish & English)
18th President, 1869-77: The home of his maternal great-grandfather, John Simpson, at Dergenagh, County Tyrone, is the location for an exhibition on the eventful life of the victorious Civil War commander who served two terms as President. Grant visited his ancestral homeland in 1878.[7]
Chester A. Arthur (Scots-Irish & English)
21st President, 1881-85: His election was the start of a quarter-century in which the White House was occupied by men of Ulster-Scots origins. His family left Dreen, near Cullybackey, County Antrim, in 1815. There is now an interpretive centre, alongside the Arthur Ancestral Home, devoted to his life and times.[48][49]
Grover Cleveland (Scots-Irish & English)
22nd and 24th President, 1885-89 and 1893-97: Born in New Jersey, he was the maternal grandson of merchant Abner Neal, who emigrated from County Antrim in the 1790s. He is the only president to have served non-consecutive terms.[48]
Benjamin Harrison (Scots-Irish & English)
23rd President, 1889-93: His mother, Elizabeth Irwin, had Ulster-Scots roots through her two great-grandfathers, James Irwin and William McDowell. Harrison was born in Ohio and served as a brigadier general in the Union Army before embarking on a career in Indiana politics which led to the White House.[48][50]
William McKinley (Scots-Irish & English)
25th President, 1897-1901: Born in Ohio, the descendant of a farmer from Conagher, near Ballymoney, County Antrim, he was proud of his ancestry and addressed one of the national Scotch-Irish congresses held in the late 19th century. His second term as president was cut short by an assassin's bullet.[48][51]
Theodore Roosevelt (Scottish, Scots-Irish, Dutch, English & French)
26th President, 1901-09: His maternal great-great-great grandmother, Jean Stobo, emigrated to America from Scotland with her parents in 1699.
William Howard Taft (Scots-Irish & English)
27th President 1909-13[52][53]
Woodrow Wilson (Scottish & Scots-Irish)
28th President, 1913-21: His Scottish maternal grandparents, Rev. Dr Thomas Woodrow and Marion Williamson, emigrated to America in the 1830s. Throughout his career he reflected on the influence of his ancestral values on his constant quest for knowledge and fulfillment.[48]
Warren G. Harding (Scots-Irish & English)
29th President 1921-23[54]
Harry S. Truman (Scots-Irish, English & German)
33rd President 1945-53[55][56]
Richard Nixon (Scots-Irish, Irish, English & German)
37th President, 1969-74: The Nixon ancestors left Ulster in the mid-18th century; the Quaker Milhous family ties were with County Antrim and County Kildare.[48]
Jimmy Carter (Scots-Irish & English)
39th President 1977-1981 (County Antrim)[7]
Ronald Reagan (Scottish, Scots-Irish, Irish & English)
40th President 1981-89: His great grandfather, John Wilson, emigrated to North America from Paisley in 1832.[57]
George H. W. Bush (Scottish, Scots-Irish & English)
41st President 1989-93: His great-great-great grandmother, Catherine Walker (nee McLelland), was Scottish.
Bill Clinton (Scots-Irish & English)
42nd President 1993-2001 (County Fermanagh)[48][58]
George W. Bush (Scottish, Scots-Irish & English)
43rd President 2001-09: His great-great-great-great grandmother, Catherine Walker (nee McLelland), was Scottish.
Barack Obama (Kenyan & English, with others including Scottish)
44th President 2009-present[59]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish-American#American_icon_Uncle_Sam


In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Me-Ki-Gal is of Scottish ancestry as well. Seems he's pretty well educated in this stuff.

I had a "friend" in high school, he was actually good friends with my other best friends. We rubbed each other the wrong way. He didn't care much for a Scotsman raised in a catholic family who had been read The Scottish Chiefs by Jane Porter when he was a kid and had some idea about his families history. I liked him well enough though. I had never met a kid from a Jewish family, I found him fascinating.

We never saw eye to eye on middle east issues though. His family had raised him to actually believe that other peoples were less than "his" people. He viewed Persians as a lower form of culture and humanity, and Arabs as slightly better than animals. He actually saw nothing wrong with apartheid and discriminatory laws, wages and rights for different groups of people in Israel. He told me there was a difference between the Torah and the Talmud, and having been raised a Christian, I could only ever understand the Torah, and I should try reading the Talmud. :bugeye: Whatever. I don't need to read more holy scripture if it just tries to justify bigotry, racism, genocide, slavery, and inequality. One dusty tomb is enough. lol

Just like a religion that said people of your religion killed your savior. It's all so stupid.
You're right. It really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with control.

Nonsense. Some Jews are in banking and lots and lots of other people are also in banking. It's just that the Jews get attention because they happen to be Jews.

My father said something meaningful to me once:

"Why is it that when I am being good with my money I am being a Jew but when a non Jew is good with their money they're being smart?"

So what if Jews are good with money? Who cares? To try and penalize them for it is nothing short of communism and discrimination.

And lets face it, Jews are smart with their money, Israel is one of the few countries to be relatively unscathed by the economic downturn in the world. Why? Because they invest in the things that people always want and always need and that won't be affected by it.


In estimating worldly values the Jew is not shallow, but deep. With precocious wisdom he found out in the morning of time that some men worship rank, some worship heroes, some worship power, some worship God, and that over these ideals they dispute and cannot unite - but that they all worship money; so he made it the end and aim of his life to get it. - Mark Twain

The essential question is whether it is right to treat Jews in general as being better then non Jews at handling money on average. On average I would say yes, not that non Jews can't be good or excellent at handling money or that Jews can't stink at it. But there are more non Jews that stink at handling money then there are Jews.

The second question is whether it is justified to penalize the Jews for being so good at it. Absolutely not.

You're right. It really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with control.

dude! The seed . The house that Jack built ? ringing any penny bells there sport .

Zimbabwe!!

My father said something meaningful to me once:

"Why is it that when I am being good with my money I am being a Jew but when a non Jew is good with their money they're being smart?"

Party hounds have lots of sayings for savers . Miserly , Frugal, I like the one squeeze a penny till it screams the best. I can squeeze a penny till it screams . Now that is a miracle to make metal scream out . You must admit.

Look the money flow is blocked or all would be as it was pre heat up of markets . Except consumption is the new dirty word so it is doomed to fail anyway. That will have to work its course through the system . Painful as that might be

Me-Ki-Gal is right. Only the Vatican switched their fiscal capital alliance from the Templars to the Zionists. My reading likewise suggests that the majority of the Templars went underground and moved their base of operations.

Now you say "your reading" as a way of trying to make an argument towards your credibility. But you fail to suggest the credibility of what exactly it is your reading.

Party hounds have lots of sayings for savers . Miserly , Frugal, I like the one squeeze a penny till it screams the best. I can squeeze a penny till it screams . Now that is a miracle to make metal scream out . You must admit.

Look the money flow is blocked or all would be as it was pre heat up of markets . Except consumption is the new dirty word so it is doomed to fail anyway. That will have to work its course through the system . Painful as that might be

Were you making a point or were you just trying to show your smart enough to know what a synonym is?

You're right. It really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with control.

I do think it has a lot to do with religion. Most of them do not value doubt, so people don't doubt themselves. That creates arrogance and self-righteousness.

Just like a religion that said people of your religion killed your savior. It's all so stupid.

No one's saving me.

You connected Jews with banking as if they were synonymous, and also placed high ranking Jews as the Masters on your pyramid of slavery, as if Jews rule the world. Both of these are typical anti-semitic points of propaganda.
Me? When? Where? I don't remember doing that. . . .

If I remember right, our learned and illustrious scholar Fraggle Rocker cleared up the facts of history on this point, firmly establishing the origins of Zionism. It is instructive to remember that use of capital is power. So while the Vatican may have told its' followers one thing, it still engaged in the use of capital through other means.



The other event has to do with a mistranslation of the Bible. There's a passage in Hebrew that identifies usury (loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate) as a sin, but the Christian translations of the Old Testament rendered that word as simply loaning money at any interest rate.

This made it impossible for people who had surplus wealth to invest their money: it would be sinful to earn interest! So they might as well dissipate it on champagne and hookers. (Oh wait, perhaps those are sins too. I haven't read the Bible, Mein Kampf, or the Communist Manifesto, all for the same reason.)

However, the Jews, who pride themselves on literacy so they can read the Bible for themselves and not trust a priest to interpret it accurately, knew better. They were happy to loan out their money for interest. And notice that while the Christians believed it was a sin to loan money, apparently it was not a sin to borrow it.

So--is everybody now saying "duh" in unison?--the Jews ended up being Europe's bankers. That's an easy way to get everybody to hate you, even today.

This of course is technically incorrect. All good Christians knew they could invest their money. They just weren't allowed to loan their money at interest. Their are many ways to earn a profit on an investment with out using usury. If you invest in an enterprise, and its' profits are more than the original investment, you make a profit. No interest is necessary to turn a profit. This is a common value espoused and promoted in the NT, which always supersedes the OT.

Although this parable is meant to show that those who have wisdom, or truth, should make it multiply, it is also a lesson about making capital investments for the good of society, and seeking a return on those investments. In such a way, the Christ ridicules the nature of interest banking as well. . .


Matthew 25:14-30

New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Bags of Gold
14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


Luke 19:12-28

New International Version (NIV)

12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

To say Christians didn't know the words of their lord is. . . well, ignorant? And to say that they would just blindly accept that the only way to fund projects requiring capital was to do it with sin? :bugeye: Now, if to say this is the only way to raise limitless sources of capital quickly? Yeah, you're probably right. But what sort of endeavor would you need to do that for? :shrug: Oh yeah. . . I forgot. . . massive wars of conscription. :mad: Man that Jesus guy was one wise fellow, huh?

Miserly , Frugal, I like the one squeeze a penny till it screams the best. I can squeeze a penny till it screams .
Just about the first thing my folks always say to me every time they see me is how much did you save this week?

Did you know a dollars worth of pennies minted before 1982 total melt value is currently $2.34? :p
http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html
(http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html)

I do think it has a lot to do with religion. Most of them do not value doubt, so people don't doubt themselves. That creates arrogance and self-righteousness.
The people that are in control? Whether their families are outwardly Jewish, Christian, etc. are more concerned with control and power. They do not defer to religious texts or spiritual teachers at all. Not most of them anyhow. I am sure of this. If they did, the world would not be in the shape it is in.

The interpretations of these. . . these religions? They too are about control, not about liberation of the individual spirit or of humanity as a whole. Think about it. If everyone did as the Christ suggested, or if everyone lived the awakened life that the Buddha recommended, what need would there be for temples, churches, mosques, religious leaders, and their attendant power structures? What need would there be for governments or militaries? What need would there be for banks and currency? No sir, it isn't about the religions, it's about control.

I'm not sure, but in most religious traditions, there is a healthy regard for growth and seeking of the truth. That implies that although the sacredness of their holy text is not in dispute, the nature of truth is something to ever be contemplated, debated, and sought. At the point when the leaders of these religions have decided for their followers what truth is? Then no, it isn't about religion, or in a wider sense, spirituality; it is about control.

Why this system of control? Because religion dictates it by it's very nature. Christianity is a totalitarian structure and the society that lives by those values is also totalitarian. It describes a state in which evil is always working to undermine the good, so it's never well enough to leave things alone. Freedom of thought could undermine the eternal destiny of millions of souls. It's essentially a control structure that perpetuates itself.

Why this system of control? Because religion dictates it by it's very nature. Christianity is a totalitarian structure and the society that lives by those values is also totalitarian. It describes a state in which evil is always working to undermine the good, so it's never well enough to leave things alone. Freedom of thought could undermine the eternal destiny of millions of souls. It's essentially a control structure that perpetuates itself.

That's an interesting take. But the same could be said of Judaism, Islam, or any of the other countless interpretations of the countless other belief systems. However, I for one, do not share this view. I don't think you bothered to watch the video that the image I posted linked to, which was titled, The Story of Your Enslavement. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A) Because, neither you or I follow any of the interpretations of any of these ancient religions, do we? So we're not controlled, nor is anyone else that refuses to subscribe to the dogma of ancient religions. And yet, if you watch this video, I think you will agree that individually we cannot help but be controlled by the system of slavery that has been set up by these "tax farms" which enable the worlds elites to control the destiny of the world's masses.

Zionism is just one elite interest group that grew out of an ethnic-religious segment (Judaism) of the world's population that now controls much of what is going on. Is this the only one? Do they hold all the cards? No, not by a long shot. But they hold enough of them to possibly cause the spark, or play the a defining role in a conflagration which will realign the world's monetary system. As we speak, the pieces for this global war are being moved about, and preparations are being made. And the world's monetary system is what it is, and always has been about. Not religion. Religion is a distraction for the ignorant masses. Because who ever has the power to control the issuing of credit and manipulation of it's value, has the power to control the world.

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."
~Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Why do you suppose this international banker would say this? :rolleyes:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317130_10150343449606898_669871897_8871727_8811324 66_n.jpg

You obviously never took even the most basic course in economics. Until you do, I suggest that you keep quiet rather than continue to embarrass yourself in this community of scholars.As I said, you have not the faintest understanding of how an economy works. That money does not "sit in a bank." It is being lent out to other people to start businesses, including the "business" of sending children to college so they can become prosperous adults who help make civilization even better, a "business" your parents obviously did not practice. It is being spent on the building of factories, warehouses, computer networks and stores, not to mention paying the salaries of their workers.

Of course I've taken economics courses. I understand the basics, Keynesian, and Austrian schools of thought. I also understand that all schools of economic thought are merely humanities attempt to control society. The very study of economics is called the "dismal science" and in that, the only truth there is that it is indeed dismal, but a science? huh. . . . far from it.

From the point of view of the millionaire? That money does, just sit in the bank. I am aware that supposedly the bank then is able to "lend out" loans based on the amount it has on deposit, but at anytime that millionaire decides to come collect his deposit. . . guess what? It's there. So no, it does just sit there. What it enables the bank to do, is create more debt. And really, this is why the whole system is engineered to fail. Because there will never be enough money in the system to pay off all the principle and the interest accrued on all debt that is outstanding in the system, more money needs to be printed.

Ahhh. . . But there is a caveat. You see, back in the early part of the twentieth century, the American voter was asleep, not paying attention, celebrating Christmas and Chanukah. . . or maybe the average American Jew was happy about this development? :eek: Teasing, I think Jewish people are the same as everyone else. I have no suspicion just b/c someone is Jewish. I digress. . . . And the Federal Reserve Act was enacted December 23, 1913. The effect of this was that every note printed and loaned to the government needed to be payed back with interest. . . necessitating, in the end, the printing of either more notes, or the acquisition of income from outside the system. Foreign sources? The problem with this of course, is that nearly every other central bank on the planet works on the private bank, fractional reserve principle. How can you steal Peter to pay Paul? There will still be more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, necessitating the printing of more notes, causing more debt, etc. you get the point. Check out Europe's or the U.S.'s, or any country that has a private central bank. . . you'll see a trend since WWII. :p Before the Iraq war there were like, oh, six or so countries that didn't have private central banks associated with the Fractional Reserve Banking Empire located in the City of London. They were, this is from memory, so I could be wrong here. . . Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Libya. I'm not sure about N. Korea.

The essential question is whether it is right to treat Jews in general as being better then non Jews at handling money on average. On average I would say yes, not that non Jews can't be good or excellent at handling money or that Jews can't stink at it. But there are more non Jews that stink at handling money then there are Jews.

The second question is whether it is justified to penalize the Jews for being so good at it. Absolutely not.
Do you have any clue what nepotism is? :bugeye:

You see? This is the sort of arrogance, this is the attitude that breeds hatred of Jews. Jewish people are so clueless of their bigotry. :cool:

:worship: Of course, their ability to work with money is in their genes. I have an idea. . . why not just let them have the power to create money out of thin air, so the rest of the world's populations can slave for them, give them interest payments for that money, so they and their children never have to work ever again. We will install them in the banks, media, and top positions of corporations and governments of every nation on the planet. How does that sound? Then the whole world will be grateful for their service?

I can't take credit for this idea of course. This idea comes straight from the Zionists. And there is a "forged and plagiarized" book you can read about all these ideas in as well. Funny thing, if you pay attention, you can see these things happening before our very eyes in the world we live in today. . . unless you don't want to look. I've heard it said that something like 80% of the plans in that book have already come to pass. hmmm. . . Sometimes turning your head and not looking to see the truth is easier.

Were you making a point or were you just trying to show your smart enough to know what a synonym is?

the point is there are 2 types . People that save for a rainy day and people that live by " when its gone its gone .

They will call each other names cause when the ones that live by "when its gone" when its gone they will come for the rainy day fund

Do you have any clue what nepotism is? :bugeye:

You see? This is the sort of arrogance, this is the attitude that breeds hatred of Jews. Jewish people are so clueless of their bigotry. :cool:

:worship: Of course, their ability to work with money is in their genes. I have an idea. . . why not just let them have the power to create money out of thin air, so the rest of the world's populations can slave for them, give them interest payments for that money, so they and their children never have to work ever again. We will install them in the banks, media, and top positions of corporations and governments of every nation on the planet. How does that sound? Then the whole world will be grateful for their service?

I can't take credit for this idea of course. This idea comes straight from the Zionists. And there is a "forged and plagiarized" book you can read about all these ideas in as well. Funny thing, if you pay attention, you can see these things happening before our very eyes in the world we live in today. . . unless you don't want to look. I've heard it said that something like 80% of the plans in that book have already come to pass. hmmm. . . Sometimes turning your head and not looking to see the truth is easier.

I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic here. You can spread all that politically correct BS you like. But Jews represent a completely disproportionate amount of the world's wealth, science, innovation, and have been at the forefront of numerous other innovations.

It's not in their genes, as a Jew I can tell you what it is and its in how you are brought up. In Judaism education is valued above almost all else. It always has been. That's what has given the Jews their advantages in the world.

By the way, I think that idea is as idiotic as they come.

I'm tired of this politically correct self righteous bullshit. Lets face facts.

If someone in the US is Hispanic there is a higher chance that they are an illegal immigrant then a similar Caucasian. That's a fact.

A black person is more likely to end up in jail then a Caucasian person. That is a fact.

These are facts, are they unpleasant? Hell yes.

Should they exist? No.

The difference between nepotism and reality is this.

Nepotism would be me saying all that stuff about the Jews being more intelligent, and that it is inbuilt and that nothing will change it.

Reality is me saying that the Jews have succeeded because out of every other system of belief in the world they somehow won the lottery and managed to get it right early on enough that it has kept them alive. And that if other people were smart they would try and figure out just what they did so well to survive for so long and to learn from it rather then just bitch and moan.

Just because a black man is more likely to end up in jail then a Caucasian does not mean it has to stay that way.

That's my beliefs.

Reality is reality, reality does not believe in morals, does not believe in ethics, does not believe in politics, nor race, nor creed, nor nation, nor person. Reality doesn't give a shit what you think.

That's my opinion, I don't give a shit towards morality nor race nor politics, etc...

Facts are facts, can they be changed? Yes. But one way in which they can't be changed is if you pretend they don't exist.


If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvellous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality? -Mark Twain

Are you saying that these things are not true? That these statistics are false?

Because they're true, if your petty morality or ethics force you to turn a blind eye towards reality then you need to reevaluate your perception of the world around you.

the point is all cultures need to learn from each other . Black foot people still live today . Do they have something to offer . Hell yes . To understand each other is monumental .

The black foot understands sustainability that we are just starting to understand in high production world with out end .

Now we can see an end by science and more sustainable models are needed . It may be cliche the word " Sustainable " yet we have to swell to close to 10 billion people still so you can see why you might keep hearing the word for some time to come

We have a lot to learn from each other and I for one feel very lucky to be hear at the cross roads of information with all of you . Think of all the people that will not ever approach the subject . We are lucky to be able to talk about it friends

You are of strange genius, Me-Ki-Gal.

I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic here. . . .

The difference between nepotism and reality is this.

Nepotism would be me saying all that stuff about the Jews being more intelligent, and that it is inbuilt and that nothing will change it.

Reality is me saying that the Jews have succeeded because out of every other system of belief in the world they somehow won the lottery and managed to get it right early on enough that it has kept them alive. And that if other people were smart they would try and figure out just what they did so well to survive for so long and to learn from it rather then just bitch and moan.

Just because a black man is more likely to end up in jail then a Caucasian does not mean it has to stay that way.

That's my beliefs.

Reality is reality, reality does not believe in morals, does not believe in ethics, does not believe in politics, nor race, nor creed, nor nation, nor person. Reality doesn't give a shit what you think.

That's my opinion, I don't give a shit towards morality nor race nor politics, etc...

Facts are facts, can they be changed? Yes. But one way in which they can't be changed is if you pretend they don't exist.

Because they're true, if your petty morality or ethics force you to turn a blind eye towards reality then you need to reevaluate your perception of the world around you.

Hmmm. . . at least now I know your bigotry is at least as much a result of ignorance and indoctrination as it is of anything else. It is clear you have no idea what nepotism is.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/US_Navy_031029-N-6236G-001_A_painting_of_President_John_Adams_%281735-1826%29%2C_2nd_president_of_the_United_States%2C_b y_Asher_B._Durand_%281767-1845%29-crop.jpg/220px-US_Navy_031029-N-6236G-001_A_painting_of_President_John_Adams_%281735-1826%29%2C_2nd_president_of_the_United_States%2C_b y_Asher_B._Durand_%281767-1845%29-crop.jpg

Adams was born to a modest family, but he felt acutely the responsibility of living up to his family heritage: the founding generation of Puritans, who came to the American wilderness in the 1630s and established colonial presence in America. The Puritans of the great migration "believed they lived in the Bible. England under the Stuarts was Egypt; they were Israel fleeing ... to establish a refuge for godliness, a city upon a hill."[6] By the time of John Adams's birth in 1735, Puritan tenets such as predestination were no longer as widely accepted, and many of their stricter practices had mellowed with time, but John Adams "considered them bearers of freedom, a cause that still had a holy urgency." It was a value system he believed in, and a heroic model he wished to live up to.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/John_Quincy_Adams.jpg/220px-John_Quincy_Adams.jpg

Much of Adams' youth was spent accompanying his father overseas. John Adams served as an American envoy to France from 1778 until 1779 and to the Netherlands from 1780 until 1782, and the younger Adams accompanied his father on these journeys.[12] Adams acquired an education at institutions such as Leiden University. For nearly three years, at the age of 14, he accompanied Francis Dana as a secretary on a mission to Saint Petersburg, Russia, to obtain recognition of the new United States. He spent time in Finland, Sweden, and Denmark and, in 1804, published a travel report of Silesia.[13] During these years overseas, Adams became fluent in French and Dutch and became familiar with German and other European languages. He entered Harvard College and graduated in 1787 with a Bachelor of Arts degree, Phi Beta Kappa.[14] Adams House at Harvard College is named in honor of Adams and his father. He later earned an A.M. from Harvard in 1790.[15] He apprenticed as a lawyer with Theophilus Parsons in Newburyport, Massachusetts, from 1787 to 1789. He was gained admittance to the bar in 1791 and began practicing law in Boston.[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg/220px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg

The Roosevelt family, colonists of Dutch origin, had been in New York since the mid-17th century. Roosevelt was born into considerable wealth, for the family by the 19th century had grown in wealth, power, and influence from the profits of several businesses, including hardware and plate-glass importing. . . .Theodore, Sr. had a tremendous influence on his son, of whom Roosevelt wrote, "My father, Theodore Roosevelt, was the best man I ever knew. He combined strength and courage with gentleness, tenderness, and great unselfishness. He would not tolerate in us children selfishness or cruelty, idleness, cowardice, or untruthfulness."[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

(continued)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/FDR_in_1933.jpg/220px-FDR_in_1933.jpg

Roosevelt went to Harvard College and lived in a suite which is now part of Adams House, in the "Gold Coast" area populated by wealthy students. Though he was a "C" student, he was a member of the Alpha Delta Phi fraternity, and also editor-in-chief of The Harvard Crimson daily newspaper. Roosevelt later declared, "I took economics courses in college for four years, and everything I was taught was wrong."[12] While he was at Harvard, his fifth cousin Theodore Roosevelt became President, and the president's vigorous leadership style and reforming zeal made him Franklin's role model and hero.[13] In 1902, he met his future wife Eleanor Roosevelt, Theodore's niece, at a White House reception (they had previously met as children). Eleanor and Franklin were fifth cousins, once removed.[14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/George_H._W._Bush%2C_President_of_the_United_State s%2C_1989_official_portrait.jpg/220px-George_H._W._Bush%2C_President_of_the_United_State s%2C_1989_official_portrait.jpg
For this? We have to dig a little deeper for truth, this is after all the king pin, right. He's the one that pulls the strings, Mr. spook you know. :p

Beginning in 1936, Bush attended Phillips Academy[4] in Andover, where he held a large number of leadership positions including being the president of the senior class and secretary of the student council, president of the community fund-raising group, the Society of Inquiry, a member of the editorial board of the school newspaper, the Philippian, captain of both the varsity baseball and soccer teams.[5] It is said that he was a member of A.U.V., or "Auctoritas, Unitas, Veritas" (Latin for "Authority, Unity, Truth"), an exclusive fraternity.
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Herbert_Walker_Bush_%281924%29/Biography


Neo-paganism and occult movements bloomed after the Civil War with Darwin's new materialist doctrines. In the 1870s the death-worshipping Skull and Bones Society sent its alumni members back from Yale University, to organize aristocratic secret satanic societies for the teenagers at the Andover prep school. But these cults did not yet quite flourish. National power was still precariously balanced between the imperial Anglo-American financiers, and the old-line nationalists who built America's railroads, steel and electrical industries.

The New Age aristocrats proclaimed their victory under Theodore Roosevelt's presidency (1901-09). The Andover Theological Seminary wound up its affairs and moved out of town, to be merged with the Harvard Divinity School! Andover prep school was now largely free of the annoyance of religion, or any connection whatsoever with the American spirit. Secret societies for the school's children, modeled on the barbarian orders at Yale, were now established in permanent, incorporated headquarters buildings just off campus at Andover. Official school advisers were assigned to each secret society, who participated in their cruel and literally insane rituals.

When J.P. Morgan partner Thomas Cochran built Andover's luxurious modern campus for boys like Poppy Bush, the usurpers of America's name had cause to celebrate. Under their supervision, fascism was rising in Europe. The new campus library was named for Oliver Wendell Holmes, Andover class of 1825. This dreadful poet of the `` leisure class, '' a tower of Boston blue-blooded conceit, was famous as the father of the twentieth century U.S. Supreme Court justice. His son, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., symbolized the arbitrary rule of the racial purity advocates, the usurpers, over American society.

Andover installed a new headmaster in 1933. Claude Moore Fuess (rhymes with fleece) replaced veteran headmaster Alfred E. Stearns, whom the Brahmins saw as a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary. Stearns was forced out over a `` scandal '': a widower, he had married his housekeeper, who was beneath his social class.
http://www.pa56.org/andoverbush.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/George-W-Bush.jpeg/220px-George-W-Bush.jpeg

Bush finished high school at Phillips Academy, a boarding school (then all-male) in Andover, Massachusetts, where he played baseball and during his senior year was the head cheerleader.[20][21] Bush attended Yale University from 1964 to 1968, graduating with an A.B. in history.[22] During this time, he was a member of Delta Kappa Epsilon, being elected the fraternity's president during his senior year.[23][24] Bush also became a member of the Skull and Bones society as a senior.[25] Bush was a keen rugby union player, and was on Yale's 1st XV.[26] He characterized himself as an average student.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/prescott-ike1.jpg
Prescott Bush and Eisenhower
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/prescott-nixon.jpg
Prescott with his protégé Dick Nixon.
So, we have seemingly average ordinary people, yet they somehow, all manage to get to extraordinary positions. And yet. . . fedr808 would have us all believe that it is the fault of the blacks or the hispanics that they do not rise to greater positions in society, that it is they that lack something. Perhaps.

Or perhaps they lack the control over the money. Perhaps they lack control over how it is valued, made, controlled, and produced. Likewise, perhaps they lack control over societal institutions, such as educational institutions, and corporate institutions. Nepotism often times determines who will get their foot in these doors, regardless of stellar ability.

But I do know one thing, this attitude is very common among some Jewish conservatives. To the extreme, they call it ZIONISM, and it is a heinous justification for apartheid laws, racism, slavery, hell, even genocide. THIS is why there is "Suspicion, Fear and Hatred of Jews," because in no other ethnic group, does this attitude so commonly rear it's ugly head and go unchallenged.

Hmmm. . . at least now I know your bigotry is at least as much a result of ignorance and indoctrination as it is of anything else. It is clear you have no idea what nepotism is.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/US_Navy_031029-N-6236G-001_A_painting_of_President_John_Adams_%281735-1826%29%2C_2nd_president_of_the_United_States%2C_b y_Asher_B._Durand_%281767-1845%29-crop.jpg/220px-US_Navy_031029-N-6236G-001_A_painting_of_President_John_Adams_%281735-1826%29%2C_2nd_president_of_the_United_States%2C_b y_Asher_B._Durand_%281767-1845%29-crop.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/John_Quincy_Adams.jpg/220px-John_Quincy_Adams.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg/220px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg

If I am a bigot then at least I am right unlike you.

Only a coward calls people names without justification. You call me a bigot, but in reality I am just reading it like it is.

The things I say are true, if they weren't then why is it that people constantly bring them up?

A bigot believes in something even if there is evidence that they are wrong.

There is no evidence that I am wrong here now is there?

So how about rather then call me a bigot and then sweep my valid points under the carpet like a coward how about you address them and man up a little?

If I am a bigot then at least I am right unlike you.

Only a coward calls people names without justification. You call me a bigot, but in reality I am just reading it like it is.

The things I say are true, if they weren't then why is it that people constantly bring them up?

A bigot believes in something even if there is evidence that they are wrong.

There is no evidence that I am wrong here now is there?

So how about rather then call me a bigot and then sweep my valid points under the carpet like a coward how about you address them and man up a little?
I understand the difference between correlation and causation, you apparently don't. I have tried to teach you why the facts are as they are, but you don't wish to see them that way, nothing I can do about that. The facts here are not in dispute, it is only the interpretation of those facts. Your unfounded pride and arrogance get in the way. The subject of the thread is, "Suspicion, Fear and Hatred of Jews." I maintain that it is your unfounded pride and arrogance, along with some Zionist's nepotism which continue the suspicion, fear and hatred. And you posit that other nations and ethnicities are just. . . what, jealous?

I don't. I think the nation's of the Earth are tired of being controlled by a small minority kept in control by a bigoted minority who stays in power via nepotism fostered by, I will concede, a strong academic culture which remains exclusive and weary of blending, intermingling, and having their cultural values diluted by outsiders. None the less, this is no excuse for domination, oppression, and covert malignant control of peoples deemed inferior.

The Esotericist: Are all these American Presidents members of the Skull and Bones Society?


I think the nation's of the Earth are tired of being controlled by a small minority kept in control by a bigoted minority who stays in power via nepotism fostered by, I will concede, a strong academic culture which remains exclusive and weary of blending, intermingling, and having their cultural values diluted by outsiders.

He's too young to know how it was when the WASPs had the positions that the Zionist lobbies now hold. I would argue that the institutions were better - functionally - under the WASPs - they have degraded and disintegrated under the Zionists.

He's also probably never lived in any society where nepotism was endemic and locked out Jews. Which explains why they constantly moved to Europe inspite of the evil Christians and why so many of them live in the most religiously Christian state in the Western world

You are of strange genius, Me-Ki-Gal.

I am a witch . A male witch . Not a warlock. A male witch . The mother loves Me . The eternal Mother . Good thing 11

You know what they say <Mog Ruith the bird Man cut off the head of John the Baptist personally . What a fucking mess that one was . Oh shit oh dear


The seed ? I am . Great House is my name don't wear it out . God knows everyone else has so if you do ? You are forgiven .

What do you think the red stone that was given to Great House was all about . Hell I didn't even know what a philosophers stone was then. I still am flabbergasted. I had no idea when he gave it to me what kind of trouble I was to get into . It was about a year before the Haitian earthquake. Throwing stones at the House of Glass. The Great House of Mica . Braking the mirror of the modern Man , Something don't feel right , Why you can't sleep at night

My father said something meaningful to me once:

"Why is it that when I am being good with my money I am being a Jew but when a non Jew is good with their money they're being smart?"

So what if Jews are good with money? Who cares? To try and penalize them for it is nothing short of communism and discrimination.

And lets face it, Jews are smart with their money, Israel is one of the few countries to be relatively unscathed by the economic downturn in the world. Why? Because they invest in the things that people always want and always need and that won't be affected by it.

- Mark Twain

The essential question is whether it is right to treat Jews in general as being better then non Jews at handling money on average. On average I would say yes, not that non Jews can't be good or excellent at handling money or that Jews can't stink at it. But there are more non Jews that stink at handling money then there are Jews.

The second question is whether it is justified to penalize the Jews for being so good at it. Absolutely not.


What do you think of the way Bernie Madoff handled money? There is a difference between making money which The Esoterist was trying to explain and using money to create debt which adversely affects the lives of others. One of the problems I have with the debt system in place in many societies that while profits seem to be all on the side of the creditor and the risks all on the side of the debtor. That is an inefficient way to manage a financial system. It may make a lot of money for some people but it eventually leads to the breakdown of financial institutions and social instability for all people living there

Also when you talk about Jews being good with money, you should preface it with "In the West...". We have had Jews for over 2000 years in India, but they never got a foothold into the banking or moneylending business. Even today, the Marwaris are visible in major financial institutions like Goldman Sachs and you must have heard of how the Birlas and Ambanis rule the Indian economic sphere. Strangely enough, the Persians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Parsis) did better than the Jews in India, financially speaking, with the Tatas and Godrej being two of the most visible signs of Parsi financial ingenuity

Why do you suppose Jews did so poorly in Asia when it came to money?

Which explains why they constantly moved to Europe inspite of the evil Christians and why so many of them live in the most religiously Christian state in the Western world

Vatican City?

/rimshot

That all says a lot more about how religion (doesn't) figure into public life in the West, than about Jews.

Not that you aren't overlooking some extremely Christian states in places like Eastern Europe, Latin America, Ireland, Greece, etc., but still...



Why do you suppose Jews did so poorly in Asia when it came to money?


Could it be that this whole Jews-are-good-with-money thing is nothing more than a hollow, ugly stereotype, and that no explanations are required for deviations from it?

I understand the difference between correlation and causation, you apparently don't. I have tried to teach you why the facts are as they are, but you don't wish to see them that way, nothing I can do about that. The facts here are not in dispute, it is only the interpretation of those facts. Your unfounded pride and arrogance get in the way. The subject of the thread is, "Suspicion, Fear and Hatred of Jews." I maintain that it is your unfounded pride and arrogance, along with some Zionist's nepotism which continue the suspicion, fear and hatred. And you posit that other nations and ethnicities are just. . . what, jealous?

I don't. I think the nation's of the Earth are tired of being controlled by a small minority kept in control by a bigoted minority who stays in power via nepotism fostered by, I will concede, a strong academic culture which remains exclusive and weary of blending, intermingling, and having their cultural values diluted by outsiders. None the less, this is no excuse for domination, oppression, and covert malignant control of peoples deemed inferior.

If they're not jealous then what are they?

The nations of the earth are tired of being controlled by a small minority?

That's another way of saying that they are tired of being controlled because they themselves want to be the controllers.


None the less, this is no excuse for domination, oppression, and covert malignant control of peoples deemed inferior.

I'm going to play along with this for now, although by no means do I agree with it.

First off, you need motive. Why would the Jews want to be in control of the world?

The way I was brought up, and I would argue the same way other Jews are brought up is that you don't take sh*t from anyone. It translates to "if you don't mess with me I won't mess with you."

You've got to understand that sort of mentality. When you are feeble and small you don't pick unwinnable fights but you don't pick fights you can win either. You pick fights that you must fight and if you cannot win then you must run.

To try and dominate the world is silly. First off it's 7 billion against far less then 60 million. That's not a winnable battle. Secondly, there is no good reason to fight it.

So if it is happening then it isn't for the purpose of some sort of war against the world.

Here is one possible motivation. How do you obtain security? With weapons? With friends? With territory? These things are of dust, and dust bears no future. Weapons can be beaten, friend can betray, territory can be taken away.

So how do you ensure survival? You ensure it by filling a corner, a niche. By creating a monopoly for yourself. You create some sort of service or create something that no one can live without and that everyone wants.

What you do is make yourself so valuable that the people around you cannot afford to lose you. So I suppose that a possible motivation for domination of the world economy is to become so firmly rooted in it that should another holocaust take place to kill of the Jews in a country would mean to tear out pieces of the country itself. But the thing is that its not actually organized like that or anything. The Jews don't meet once a year in some spooky cave to decide on which direction they will take the global economy in the next year.

The only motivation for the Jews to dominate the world is security, to ensure that the holocaust never happens again. The thing is that it takes massive resources to do what you claim they are doing, and the fact is that the goal of security is now obsolete.

Israel has already placed itself in such a position that neither China nor the US nor India can afford to alienate it. Israel has a strange knack for being able to become friends with two countries that hate each other. Such is the case of Turkey and Greece. Turkey was gearing up for war with Israel mere months ago, Israel soon made a mutual defense pact with Greece and its no coincidence that Turkey quieted down soon afterwards.

Could it be that this whole Jews-are-good-with-money thing is nothing more than a hollow, ugly stereotype, and that no explanations are required for deviations from it?

Possibly, but I've seen many Jews like fedr who believe their own stereotypes

see article in Ynet here:




How did American Jews get so rich?

Since the mass immigration some 100 years ago, Jews have become richest religious group in American society. They make up only 2% of US population, but 25% of 400 wealthiest Americans. How did it happen, and how crucial is their aid to Israel?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4099803,00.html

But this whole "Jews are good with money" would be met with a blank stare anywhere on the Asian subcontinent. When we think of Jews it is actors like Pearl Padamsee or Ranjit Chaudhury, or other actors like David or Nadira - come to think of it, we don't actually think of them as Jews, hmmm. The only remotely rich Jew I can think of off hand is David Sassoon of the Sassoon Docks and David Sassoon library fame in Mumbai.



It was not until the 1860s that the Sassoons were able to lead the Baghdadi Jewish community in overtaking Parsi dominance.[citation needed] A particular opportunity was given by the American Civil War, during which turmoil American cotton exports from the South declined. Lancashire factories replaced American cotton imports with Sassoon's Indian cotton.

Along with Parsi businessmen such as Jamshedji Jejaboy, David Sassoon continued the trade with China and from the wealth earned there he started his own business of oil. His first mill was named E.D. Sassoon Mills and he became exceedingly propserous. Later the Sassoons were the largest mill owners and were known as Badshah of the business community of Bombay. Overall there were 17 mills, each mill having around 15 to 20,000 workers. Later, David Sassoon also entered the cotton, fabrics and various other industries on a large scale.

David Sassoon, as an Orthodox Jew, continued his Jewish religious observances, observing the Jewish Sabbath throughout his busy life. He was also a member of the Legislative Assembly of the time. He built one of the largest and most beautiful synagogues of India, the Magen David synaguogue at Byculla, Bombay. He also built the Ohel David Synagogue of Pune. Today these are well known tourist attractions and form an important part of the cultural heritage of India. Various charity trusts were named after him and other members of his family, funded from his private income, which continue in existence today. David Sassoon one of the great people of Bombay who created so many monuments and educational institutions, building great buildings that have become the most prominent places of Bombay and Pune. He also constructed the Sassoon Dock at Colaba, one of the largest docks ever built in Bombay.

But he supported the occupation and hence never really integrated with Indians



Although David Sassoon did not speak English, he became a naturalised British citizen in 1853. He kept the dress and manners of the Baghdadi Jews, but allowed his sons to adopt English manners. His son, Abdullah changed his name to Albert, moved to England, became a Baronet and married into the Rothschild family. All the Sassoons of Europe are said to be descendants of David Sassoon.


Can't think of anyone else although I'm sure they exist. But you won't find any suspicion, fear or hatred of Jews due to their money making abilities in Asian society. In fact, it would be safe to say that if not for Israel, no one would even notice Jews [as Jews] in Asian society. I mean, 80% of Indian Jews left the country when Israel was established and no one gave them a second thought.

Possibly, but I've seen many Jews like fedr who believe their own stereotypes

Lots of people of all types tend to internalize various stereotypes and cliches. That's part of why they're so damaging and persistent.

There's also the small point that the Jews living in the West today, are necessarily descendents of the Jews who managed to escape the Holocaust. It shouldn't beggar the imagination to suggest that such would have generally been from the more wealthy, connected portions of the erstwhile European Jewry.


I mean, 80% of Indian Jews left the country when Israel was established and no one gave them a second thought.

It's not clear to me that this observation implies what you seem to think it implies about Indian society, or the place of Jews therein.

I'm sorry, but let me get this straight.

When a non Jew (such as you guys) bring up a point about the Jews controlling a disproportionate amount of the world's wealth its considered alright.

But when a Jew such as me brings it up I am somehow internalizing a stereotype and its wrong?

Isn't that hypocritical?

Isn't that hypocritical?

Its how the world works bro, the world expects you to be self deprecating.

Don't be lol, have pride.

I am a witch . A male witch . Not a warlock. A male witch . The mother loves Me . The eternal Mother . Good thing 11

You know what they say <Mog Ruith the bird Man cut off the head of John the Baptist personally . What a fucking mess that one was . Oh shit oh dear


The seed ? I am . Great House is my name don't wear it out . God knows everyone else has so if you do ? You are forgiven .

What do you think the red stone that was given to Great House was all about . Hell I didn't even know what a philosophers stone was then. I still am flabbergasted. I had no idea when he gave it to me what kind of trouble I was to get into . It was about a year before the Haitian earthquake. Throwing stones at the House of Glass. The Great House of Mica . Braking the mirror of the modern Man , Something don't feel right , Why you can't sleep at night
Thank you. Sometimes I think you are speaking only to me. lol You know, I do have things I have to attend to in the morning. . . ;)

Could it be that this whole Jews-are-good-with-money thing is nothing more than a hollow, ugly stereotype, and that no explanations are required for deviations from it?
Bingo ;)

If you aren't in control of the systems of finance to begin with, then the stereo-types aren't a good explanation of the facts. When that hypothesis is proved to be false, the other logical option to consider would be nepotism and entrenched power within the world of finance.

The whole 'jews are good with money' thing arose because in mediveal Europe, there was a disproportionate number of jews who were merchants and moneylenders. The basic reason for that was two fold, Jews were not prohibited from charging interest on loans, and Jews were, by law, not permitted to own land. Trading and finance were their only options.

The whole 'jews are good with money' thing arose because in mediveal Europe, there was a disproportionate number of jews who were merchants and moneylenders. The basic reason for that was two fold, Jews were not prohibited from charging interest on loans, and Jews were, by law, not permitted to own land. Trading and finance were their only options.

I think it was Wikipedia where I read that Jews worked for the royalty of old Europe as bankers, handling the finances of the realms. It may be that they are inherently good accountants, or maybe they fell into the profession because of social and economic pressures.

Bingo ;)

If you aren't in control of the systems of finance to begin with, then the stereo-types aren't a good explanation of the facts. When that hypothesis is proved to be false, the other logical option to consider would be nepotism and entrenched power within the world of finance.

One needs to consider where the stereotypes come from though.


Jews have made contributions in a broad range of human endeavors, including the sciences, arts, politics, and business.[177][178] The number of Jewish Nobel prize winners is far out of proportion to the percentage of Jews in the world's population.[178][179]

While most stereotypes are false others may well be grounded in reality.

Lets face it, the Jewish global population is 14,000,000 and the sad fact is that is probably close to as high as it has ever been. And the Jews have survived for nearly two millenia without a homeland nor country.

No other culture nor religion has maintained that level of identity for more then three centuries let alone two millenia.

If your really dumb enough to think that this was some accident or some coincidence then you are completely mistaken and the entire basis for your argument in this thread is unstable at best.

Obviously the Jews figured something out, some quality or some piece of knowledge that has enabled them to survive for nearly two millenia. The Romans controlled vast swaths of land and territory, yet they disappeared into the dust, so too the Babylonians, the Persians, the Mongols, the Nazis, the British empire.

The list goes on and on. All these civilizations, considered the hallmarks of human civilization made a great thunder throughout the world and then evaporated into thin air. Yet the feeble and weak Jews, a people with no land managed to continue onward where those others failed.

Your theory can be whittled down to this: The Jews have no special quality nor special knowledge that enabled them to survive 2,000 years, it was just dumb luck. They are just as average as anyone else.

My theory is this: Something in Jewish culture kept the Jews alive, kept their identity alive and it was this quality that has ensured their successes in all types of arenas. And my question is, what exactly is that quality?

You can delude yourself in political correctness, dilute reality with petty morality, and to hide behind smoke and mirrors but the facts are this. No one else in history has faced as many genocides, massacres, mass killings, and slaughters as the Jews have and not only survived but regained a homeland lost nearly two millenia earlier. You may think it dumb luck, I think its something more.

Jews represent 0.24% of the world's population.

30% of the top 101 richest Americans published by Forbes 400 in 2010 September 23 were Jewish.

Someone please try and explain that to me. I find it hard to believe it is coincidence.

It's hard to believe that many things are coincidence, but that's irrelevant to whether or not they are. In response to your specific question, however, I don't have enough data to give you a sure answer, but I believe that jewish culture has more than a little to do with it.

Well I am righteous. I am still here . What came before Me ? Maybe I am a jew . Don't know ? Are we all Jewish cause we are still here ? I come from ancient Mankind and I am still here . I think I am still here . Well maybe not all here but enough of Me is that I am aware I represent my ancient fore fathers .

They say I am German in nature . Yet one time my Father met some really old jews one time and they asked him his name . He told them Greathouse and you know what they said . They said that is an ancient Jewish Name . You come from a old Jewish family name . We didn't know what to think about that with all the red and blond hair in our family . Yet my Buddy Jeff Bolton he came from a Jewish heritage. His Dad was the highest payed state employee in the State of California back in the day . That be the early 80s . Baby butt blond hair that one . Blue eyes too . Great business Man and close friend . Like brothers in crime . He had a bad coke habit and well it ruined his business sense to some degree . Thank god I got out of that spiral into hell damnation . ... ..

Talk to Spidey . Jewish people can be stupid too . Oh I didn't mean it that way Spidey you know I think you are a Great Artist and you are

A lot of mathematicians were Jewish . Riemann was Jewish. Course Arabs came up with a boat load of math also . I heard some one say once that the white man got all he has from other cultures and didn't come with anything of there own . Now that is racist if you ask me . Vikings came up with great new ways of pillaging and raping, Torture too . Experts at torture, we know that for sure and what about the control of the seas with there special little boats . Yeah don't think that is right ? Maybe the Neanderthal part of us for they are gone so we can pick on them good . Them nasty Neanderthals contributed what ? Slackers is what they were . We had to get rid of em. They were trouble makers

It's hard to believe that many things are coincidence, but that's irrelevant to whether or not they are. In response to your specific question, however, I don't have enough data to give you a sure answer, but I believe that jewish culture has more than a little to do with it.

I believe its the Jewish obsession with education and learning. There is a strong emphasis on study and bettering oneself. Take a look at these statistics.


The National Jewish Population Survey 2000-01 goes further. It points out that:

"More than half of all Jewish Adults (55%) received a college degree and a quarter (25%) earned a graduate degree." "The Comparable figures for the total U.S. population are 29% and 6%." As a result,
"More than 60% of all employed Jews are in one of the three highest status job categories: professional or technical (41%), management and executive (13%) and business and finance (7%)." "In contrast, 46% of all Americans work in these three high status areas, 29% in professional or technical jobs, 12% in management and executive positions and 5% in business and finance."

There is hard data that supports that hypothesis and would help to explain the success of Jews in the modern world.

I believe its the Jewish obsession with education and learning. There is a strong emphasis on study and bettering oneself. Take a look at these statistics. I think your mistaking jews for well asians. sorry to say but most of the jews I have met and seen in the public eye couldn't give a fuck about education and learning except as a means to aquire money, power, or influence. its a feel good notion to make an oppressed people feel better about them selves.



There is hard data that supports that hypothesis and would help to explain the success of Jews in the modern world.[/QUOTE]

Jews represent 0.24% of the world's population.

30% of the top 101 richest Americans published by Forbes 400 in 2010 September 23 were Jewish.

Someone please try and explain that to me. I find it hard to believe it is coincidence.

Not a coincidence. More like a monopoly. Wait till you have to compete against Asians, not just westerners ;). There is a reason all these wealthy Jews are all present in western society. Can you name say the top 3 wealthy Jews in Asian countries? There are about 50,000 of them [excluding Israel] so by your calculations there should be quite a few.

I think your mistaking jews for well asians. sorry to say but most of the jews I have met and seen in the public eye couldn't give a fuck about education and learning except as a means to aquire money, power, or influence. its a feel good notion to make an oppressed people feel better about them selves.



There is hard data that supports that hypothesis and would help to explain the success of Jews in the modern world.[/QUOTE]

Well first off your not Jewish. Secondly I know you well enough pj dude that you came in here with numerous preconceptions already. I have data to back me up, you do not. Your poor opinions of the Jews in general do not garner you any respect.


Not a coincidence. More like a monopoly. Wait till you have to compete against Asians, not just westerners ;). There is a reason all these wealthy Jews are all present in western society. Can you name say the top 3 wealthy Jews in Asian countries? There are about 50,000 of them [excluding Israel] so by your calculations there should be quite a few.

What calculations exactly? I fail to see what your point is. And I fail to see how the Jews accomplished any sort of monopoly.

Heck, I don't think your even putting forth any specific argument in this post that I can think of.

What calculations exactly? I fail to see what your point is. And I fail to see how the Jews accomplished any sort of monopoly.

These calculations:


Jews represent 0.24% of the world's population.

30% of the top 101 richest Americans published by Forbes 400 in 2010 September 23 were Jewish.

Someone please try and explain that to me. I find it hard to believe it is coincidence.

I think Fraggle has explained many times how Jews obtained a monopoly in financial institutions in Christian Europe. All your stats are based on numbers in western economies and it is in western society that the Jewish moneylender and stereotypes like Shylock exist. They are completely absent in the Asian discourse - we have our own stereotypes about the canny Bania and the stingy Marwari - we have no such stereotypes of Jews - they are by and large invisible in our society


Heck, I don't think your even putting forth any specific argument in this post that I can think of.

Thats because I'm not making an argument. I'm challenging your claim of Jews being good at making money - they are but only in western societies and western economies where they had a monopoly for many years. Having a community established in an occupation is an advantage that Indians have recognised for a long time, its why the caste system is framed around occupation - its why Laxmi Mittal is on Goldman Sachs BOD. Its not unique to Jews - the WASPs did in the US before as well.

I recalled reading something about this on mondoweiss so I went back and searched for it:



A lot of people are talking about David Brooks’s distastefully-smug column in the Times yesterday about Jewish achievement, in which he says that we are 2 percent of the U.S. population and 25 percent of this and that. And that we get all the patents in the Middle East while the Arabs smoke hookahs.

He asks how this can be, and talks about our incredible culture. I agree: it’s a helluva bookish culture. Though that same intellectual culture is going out the window now that the chief occupation of Jewish leadership is saying, Repeat after us, apartheid is democracy.

But I’d like to inject a realistic note here. How much of Jewish achievement reflects the fact that Jews look out for one another? When I had to get a partner on this website to keep it going, I was most comfortable getting another Jew. Years ago when I was at the Harvard Crimson newspaper, my Irish-Catholic friend Mary Ridge informed me that it was a "Jewish club"–we selected for our own kind; and the Crimson produced a lot of professional journalism talent. I have gotten most of my journalism work from Jewish bosses.

Jews have kinship networks as strong as other people’s, maybe more strong. All that Hollywood talent– producers are always aware of who is a Jew, and I am sure they feel more comfortable hiring Jews. Landsman. My parents liked the idea of my marrying a Jew because Jews are gemutlich, as my mom always says– family, kin. We know all the social cues, can finish one another’s sentences, etc.

And look at the New York Times, where Brooks works. Is it an expression of Jewish genius that most of the political columnists are Jewish? Tom Friedman, Paul Krugman, Frank Rich, David Brooks et al. Or does it maybe reflect the fact that a Jewish family has majority ownership of the newspaper and that most of the big editors have been Jewish and at some level, unconscious or otherwise, they favor Jews?

So I think some of the amazing record of Jewish achievement reflects discrimination; and Jews are powerful enough in this society that we ought to be conscious of that. Brooks has often praised the late sociologist E. Digby Baltzell, and Baltzell said as much about the last establishment; he said that WASPs favor other WASPs, and that it was hurting the American establishment.

I venture that the same thing is happening today in the Jewish portion of the establishment. We discriminate in favor of our own; and it’s doing a number on foreign policy.

What should be done about this? Jews in powerful positions should be aware of this, and seek greater diversity in their hiring.

Why this struck me was because it made me more conscious of how much Indians are like this too.

Jews represent 0.24% of the world's population.

30% of the top 101 richest Americans published by Forbes 400 in 2010 September 23 were Jewish.

Someone please try and explain that to me. I find it hard to believe it is coincidence.

The more I think about it the more that sounds like an American statement .

I forget the actual statistic. The idea goes " WE are x amount of population yet we enjoy the majority of the wealth in the world .

Asians ? If I was a Jew I would be worried . Some one might get knocked off there pedestal. For a short race of people they are coming on strong . There work ethic is "beyond the pale" ( borrowed expression from Chimkin, no I won't pay interest for using it, It is Also my friends band name ) Savings is big for the Asian race of people too . They also understand One person philosophy pretty good . Education ? Need we go there ? That would be an interesting comparison. Course there are a lot of Asian Peasants still . A lot of Asians also , but hey what always say the more the merrier .

So what have I learn so far about Jewish culture. They believe in Exclusion and Cronyism . Even Spidey as American as he is believes in the right Exclude . How did he put it ? My love is not for everyone . It sounded like " I can hate who ever I want when I want . Exclusion is my right .

Well fine . I don't care . Why would I care . Just because I search the world for Love and find so little . Who fucking cares . I ,why would I care . No one else cares . Why should I. I should just go get the money and fuck everyone else . Fuck my so called friends that don't give a fuck either . Just think about my self . Welcome Foreigners in My house? Why should I do that ? Love is that even a real thing ? More like a needy thing than an actual affection . Love you tell something better comes along , then old Moloch the Sacred Cow gets kicked to the dirt . Who cares

Well first off your not Jewish. talk about arrogance. one of the biggest reasons people dislike jews is this kind of arrogance. the you can't know anything about us without being us.
Secondly I know you well enough pj dude that you came in here with numerous preconceptions already. actually you don't know shit. you have your own notions of my beliefs that have more to do with your own bigotries than my own
I have data to back me up, you do not. actually no you don't. you have a set of information that is inconclusive and you just automaticaly assumed it supported your belief systems
Your poor opinions of the Jews in general do not garner you any respect. I don't have a poor opinion of jews. that is something you and the other zionists feel I do because I won't just ok jews deserve more than others. you think I hate jews because I dislike Israel. just because I hold jews accountable for their actions, beliefs, and wants doesn't mean I have a poor opinion of them. no one should get a moral pass for the evil they have committed or wished to commit. it just means I treat them the same as everyone on else. I can see how given your attitudes that is a bad thing but its not.

Thats because I'm not making an argument. I'm challenging your claim of Jews being good at making money - they are but only in western societies and western economies where they had a monopoly for many years. Having a community established in an occupation is an advantage that Indians have recognised for a long time, its why the caste system is framed around occupation - its why Laxmi Mittal is on Goldman Sachs BOD. Its not unique to Jews - the WASPs did in the US before as well.



Well for starters I appreciate the fact that unlike other people in this thread you don't just call me arrogant and sweep my points under the rug but instead you call me arrogant and actually challenge my points. That is what I call integrity, you talk the talk but also walk the walk.

However I feel as though your points are invalid. The fact is that the only way to challenge those statistics I have listed is to have another environment replicating the population of Jews in the western world but the Jews in that environment are only as successful as the others around them. The fact is that the number of Jews in Asia is puny compared to that of the western world so you cannot call it evidence against my statistics because in no way does it even come close to a similar environment and similar population as mine.

At the same time your argument is backed up not by fact but by opinion. Namely your argument boils down to "Have you ever heard of a rich Asian Jew? I haven't, you haven't, so that must mean that they don't exist."

But you don't actually list alternative explanations for that. One is the small Jewish populations in those countries, another is the fact that Christianity did not hold those countries in a stranglehold. Yet another is that those countries may not have persecuted Jews to the extent of other European countries.

Your points are marred by the fact that they could be explained by dozens of other legitimate answers as well as the fact that maybe Jews aren't so special after all.

So Sam, in conclusion I respect your argument a lot more then most other people's in this thread. You actually made an intelligent argument against my points rather then just name calling and finger pointing. But in the end I disagree with your points, not on the basis of my Judaism nor my faith, but because I feel that it does not satisfactorily explain the survival of a puny faith for nearly two millenia in exile and that has survived more exterminations, genocides, and holocaust then any other religion out there.

It fascinating to me how the same qualities that makes "Jews" successful (Faith/nationalism(perhaps the first real "nation") based on race/blood, nepotism, and battling "outsiders" for dominance in subtle ways), puts them at odds and open to hatred, envy and acts of obtuse revenge.

Fedr, you have certainly embodied some of it, with your posts. Kudos.

Well for starters I appreciate the fact that unlike other people in this thread you don't just call me arrogant and sweep my points under the rug but instead you call me arrogant and actually challenge my points. That is what I call integrity, you talk the talk but also walk the walk.

However I feel as though your points are invalid. The fact is that the only way to challenge those statistics I have listed is to have another environment replicating the population of Jews in the western world but the Jews in that environment are only as successful as the others around them. The fact is that the number of Jews in Asia is puny compared to that of the western world so you cannot call it evidence against my statistics because in no way does it even come close to a similar environment and similar population as mine.

At the same time your argument is backed up not by fact but by opinion. Namely your argument boils down to "Have you ever heard of a rich Asian Jew? I haven't, you haven't, so that must mean that they don't exist."

But you don't actually list alternative explanations for that. One is the small Jewish populations in those countries, another is the fact that Christianity did not hold those countries in a stranglehold. Yet another is that those countries may not have persecuted Jews to the extent of other European countries.

Your points are marred by the fact that they could be explained by dozens of other legitimate answers as well as the fact that maybe Jews aren't so special after all.

So Sam, in conclusion I respect your argument a lot more then most other people's in this thread. You actually made an intelligent argument against my points rather then just name calling and finger pointing. But in the end I disagree with your points, not on the basis of my Judaism nor my faith, but because I feel that it does not satisfactorily explain the survival of a puny faith for nearly two millenia in exile and that has survived more exterminations, genocides, and holocaust then any other religion out there.

What about the losers that were snuffed out completely by advancement. What did they suffer? What did Judaism do for them ? Oh yeah they are exiled into oblivion for ever more so who cares. They didn't survive so fuck em. There not part of fold . Does your faith allow for god to be God of everyone and not just the Jew ? If not everyone what is Gods plan for all the non Jews?
I was thinking you were an Atheist? Your not an Atheist then ? If your not your god warns you of when the traveler knocks on your door. I think you should read the temple prayer dedication and think about your position

What about the losers that were snuffed out completely by advancement. What did they suffer? What did Judaism do for them ? Oh yeah they are exiled into oblivion for ever more so who cares. They didn't survive so fuck em. There not part of fold . Does your faith allow for god to be God of everyone and not just the Jew ? If not everyone what is Gods plan for all the non Jews?
I was thinking you were an Atheist? Your not an Atheist then ? If your not your god warns you of when the traveler knocks on your door. I think you should read the temple prayer dedication and think about your position

I am Jewish, but I have a cynical perception of reality. Really I just like to take whichever side of the argument which is under represented as in this case.

I am atheistic in my beliefs, but I do have a Jewish background. Its hard to say really, Judaism isn't just a religion, its a way of thought, a way of seeing the world.

I am saying this not as a Jew but as a cynic, a realist, and an atheist. The Jews survived when at the same time so many others died out because for some reason they were better then those that died out.

My faith dictates that there is no G-d. But as a Jew my faith tells me that what I believe is what is right, and what others believe is also right. Life's paths are rarely straight and there are many of them. Whose to say there isn't more then one way to get where you want to go?

G-d's plan for the non Jews? Well again, I am an atheist, but my Jewish perspective is that there is no hell, so everyone gets a ticket to heaven.

How am I supposed to know G-d's plans? I don't even believe he exists. And even if he did have a plan what in the world did I do to deserve to know what it is?

I would like to think that G-d created us all with the ability to reason and to choose, and that reality is impartial and chaotic.

My faith and my prayers exist solely (in my mind) to thank G-d and to learn more about him, its not to beg him to let me into heaven or to keep me alive or other some such.

As I said before, I am a cynic, my true beliefs are in atheism. But when it comes to debates I find that I must stand up for the little guy, to argue for the under represented side. Despite my Jewish background I have argued against Israel and for Israel on different threads and debates. I am not so firmly entrenched in my beliefs that I refuse to acknowledge the validity of others.

I am Jewish, but I have a cynical perception of reality. Really I just like to take whichever side of the argument which is under represented as in this case.

I am atheistic in my beliefs, but I do have a Jewish background. Its hard to say really, Judaism isn't just a religion, its a way of thought, a way of seeing the world.

I am saying this not as a Jew but as a cynic, a realist, and an atheist. The Jews survived when at the same time so many others died out because for some reason they were better then those that died out.

My faith dictates that there is no G-d. But as a Jew my faith tells me that what I believe is what is right, and what others believe is also right. Life's paths are rarely straight and there are many of them. Whose to say there isn't more then one way to get where you want to go?

G-d's plan for the non Jews? Well again, I am an atheist, but my Jewish perspective is that there is no hell, so everyone gets a ticket to heaven.

How am I supposed to know G-d's plans? I don't even believe he exists. And even if he did have a plan what in the world did I do to deserve to know what it is?

I would like to think that G-d created us all with the ability to reason and to choose, and that reality is impartial and chaotic.

My faith and my prayers exist solely (in my mind) to thank G-d and to learn more about him, its not to beg him to let me into heaven or to keep me alive or other some such.

As I said before, I am a cynic, my true beliefs are in atheism. But when it comes to debates I find that I must stand up for the little guy, to argue for the under represented side. Despite my Jewish background I have argued against Israel and for Israel on different threads and debates. I am not so firmly entrenched in my beliefs that I refuse to acknowledge the validity of others.

Is the Alien small enough for you to fight for . Why do you have that space between the G-and the D . Your afraid to say G8ds Name ? I know the real name of God . What do you think about that. I have done many miracles on this forum for those that can see and read . It takes knowing whats going on all around you to even see em. Wads you think about that storm in Alaska last night . Did you hear about it ?
I don't want you to think that this is all a smear the Jew campaign . I love you Man . Your contribution you gave was Beyond the Pale . You know it is time to move forward in your Heart. I feel you do just by your words .

It is easy to be cynic . Hells Bells it is a cynical world . Smear the Queer is still the name of the game . G8d I pray for the day that that statement is a lie . One day my friend one day

I forgot to tell you I am German Heritage our I didn't say it out right . Yeah Grothausen . Westphalia area , Ludenhausen area . Motted Castles and all that. What did my heritage put in Me . Dare I say .
I am a very good exterminator extraordinaire. A killing machine to tell you the truth . I don't know" it just comes natural for Me . I don't know what it is ? It is not that I get that much joy from it for it is a lot more work than you would think . It is almost like it is my day job . What I was born to do . I don't really want to do it . This is the second year I didn't kill something in a long time so well people can change .

Friends !! We can be cynics together and bring hope for a day it don't have to be cause we did all the things it takes to get rid of cynical-ism

Anyway you asked to know G8D better . Hi

Well for starters I appreciate the fact that unlike other people in this thread you don't just call me arrogant and sweep my points under the rug but instead you call me arrogant and actually challenge my points. That is what I call integrity, you talk the talk but also walk the walk.

I'm interested in the argument, not in personalities


However I feel as though your points are invalid. The fact is that the only way to challenge those statistics I have listed is to have another environment replicating the population of Jews in the western world but the Jews in that environment are only as successful as the others around them. The fact is that the number of Jews in Asia is puny compared to that of the western world so you cannot call it evidence against my statistics because in no way does it even come close to a similar environment and similar population as mine.

But the small population in Asia is part of the argument. Jews have travelled all the way from Russia to the US, yes? They've encountered antisemitism in almost every non-Asian country, yes? So why aren't they all in Asia? Why are so many Jews outside Asia?


At the same time your argument is backed up not by fact but by opinion. Namely your argument boils down to "Have you ever heard of a rich Asian Jew? I haven't, you haven't, so that must mean that they don't exist."

My opinion is as valid as your opinion. If Jews are good at making money, why aren't they making a lot of money in Asia? Why are 99.99% of Jews getting rich in western economies?


But you don't actually list alternative explanations for that. One is the small Jewish populations in those countries, another is the fact that Christianity did not hold those countries in a stranglehold. Yet another is that those countries may not have persecuted Jews to the extent of other European countries.

Yup. All true. Think about it. Why are Jews concentrated in countries in the stranglehold of Christianity which persecute Jews and yet, have large populations of Jews?


Your points are marred by the fact that they could be explained by dozens of other legitimate answers as well as the fact that maybe Jews aren't so special after all.


I'm not arguing for or against being special, since money is not really a criteria of value, only price.




So Sam, in conclusion I respect your argument a lot more then most other people's in this thread. You actually made an intelligent argument against my points rather then just name calling and finger pointing. But in the end I disagree with your points, not on the basis of my Judaism nor my faith, but because I feel that it does not satisfactorily explain the survival of a puny faith for nearly two millenia in exile and that has survived more exterminations, genocides, and holocaust then any other religion out there.

Actually I think so many years of persecution speaks to the fact that Jews don't learn from their history [there was no exile, for one thing]. All Asians tend to cling to 5000 year old histories and one more isn't really worth all that much.

Persecution? pfft! You ain't seen nothing yet


Winston Churchill the Prime Minister of that time responded with a telegram to Wavell asking, if food was so scarce, "why Gandhi hadn't died yet. ..."

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/hooper_famine.jpg?w=690&h=465

Persecution? pfft! You ain't seen nothing yet

Exfuckingcuse me?

http://0.tqn.com/d/history1900s/1/0/f/A/prisoner10.jpg

What an amazingly dense asshole you really are.

Exfuckingcuse me?
What an amazingly dense asshole you really are.

Why you got matching quotes from the British wondering if the Jews were really starving? Of course, the British army marched on the Indian stomach, so when Indians starved to death, they were just collateral damages. And we had the benefit of British noblesse oblige for 150 years. And unlike Jews who moved to Germany, we did not have the choice of escaping elsewhere, because, you know, no one really gave a damn how many Indians starved to death

If I were to pretend your parallel was actually that - a real parallel - then I should somehow be amazed to find similarly or much more extreme statements by members of the German WWII 'establishment' about Jewish concentration camp victims, since you're now claiming this was your point all along. Think it's possible some Germans of that period might have said something similar? Think there's any doubt at all that they did? Pathetic.

And, ultimately, you were implying that Jewish people weren't really persecuted. Idiotic, vicious, impressively myopic.

If I were to pretend your parallel was actually that - a real parallel - then I should somehow be amazed to find similarly or much more extreme statements by members of the German WWII 'establishment' about Jewish concentration camp victims, since you're now claiming this was your point all along. Think it's possible some Germans of that period might have said something similar? Think there's any doubt at all that they did? Pathetic.

And, ultimately, you were implying that Jewish people weren't really persecuted. Idiotic, vicious, impressively myopic.

No I'm saying they continued to move to societies where they faced persecution and left societies where they did not. Obviously there was some advantage to them in moving to majority Christian nations over say, China or the Phillipines where no one would give a damn how Jewish or ethnocentric they were. Even today, Israelis may vacation in India, but they move to Berlin.


Young Israelis moving to Berlin in droves

City from which Hitler unleashed genocide of six million Jews now attracting small but growing community of Jews from Israel for whom it embodies freedom, tolerance, anything-goes spirit

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3953354,00.html


Clearly they have a preference for Christian nations over others

MMmm, that's goood intellectual disconnect. You have clearly picked the right subforum for this stuff.

Well, I guess, at least the Nazis were giving them a bowl of soup a day, the British couldn't even be bothered with that. I guess that could explain why so many Jews leave their Jewish state for Berlin. What do you think?

I think I'll wait for fedr to tell me why Jews migrate to Christian nations inspite of a history of persecution there.

Jesus brought them into the fold of Judaism would be my guess . Christians are Jews by Jesus adoption . Also that scoundrel Paul who was also a Jew invited Whites to participate in the promise . Actually it was Isaiah that first invited the Gentile . I think he said " I will be G8d to people that are not my People and I will call them my people . Yeah something like that .

As Spidey would say they were race traitors . They sold the religion to the rest of the world and the white man bit hook line and sinker . Built the new world all around it . Now you take the brutality of killing machines and couple Judism together and what do you get . America ! America ! The land that I love . Stand beside her and guide her , Kill all the ones in the way .

Anyway Marx Was he Jewish ? I think he was . Would he be a race traitor too ?
I heard he let his kids starve . His own kids . Is that true ? He did it cause he felt his work was more important than his family ?

Well, I guess, at least the Nazis were giving them a bowl of soup a day, the British couldn't even be bothered with that. I guess that could explain why so many Jews leave their Jewish state for Berlin. What do you think?

I think I'll wait for fedr to tell me why Jews migrate to Christian nations inspite of a history of persecution there.



Jew and Christian believe in the Messiah, they are the same family .
If you look The Christian ever they busted the Jews, yet they provided them their homeland in 1947-48

one thing for sure is those Indians are a lot skinnier than those Jews . The picture don't lie . Course Germans and the English are they that much different from each other . One whitey to another . To a back Man don't they all look the same . Yeah hair color changes but beside that and eye color ? Does an Asian think white people all look the same ?

I am a white witch . I left that out . Like that house in Jamaica. Rose Hall . I gonna google that and see if I got that right.

What do you know ? It was . White Witch of Rose Hall . The Great House . Memes are fun

Well, I guess, at least the Nazis were giving them a bowl of soup a day, the British couldn't even be bothered with that. I guess that could explain why so many Jews leave their Jewish state for Berlin. What do you think?

I think I'll wait for fedr to tell me why Jews migrate to Christian nations inspite of a history of persecution there.

So who is it you think you're fooling with this redirection?

No I'm saying...

There is a huge cultural difference between Europe and Asia. Also, it's a long way away. China is an authoritarian state, and the Philippines are obnoxiously Christian.

Germany is no longer controlled by fascists, and it's quite free there, even compared with the United States. Also the Churches have almost no political power any more, so it's safer.

one thing for sure is those Indians are a lot skinnier than those Jews . The picture don't lie . Course Germans and the English are they that much different from each other . One whitey to another . To a back Man don't they all look the same . Yeah hair color changes but beside that and eye color ? Does an Asian think white people all look the same ?

I am a white witch . I left that out . Like that house in Jamaica. Rose Hall . I gonna google that and see if I got that right.

What do you know ? It was . White Witch of Rose Hall . The Great House . Memes are fun

Pretty much I would think. Except for more colour combinations which makes it all the more strange that we are the coloured peoples yes?

And that was the point I was making to fedr - colonised peoples have seen hundreds of years of oppression under Europe. Why would Jews move there? Especially when they had the additional stigma of deicide? We're talking about hatred and suspicion of Jews. Whether its Shakespeare or Churchill, thats a meme that has a loooong history in Europe (http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/). And yet, we have most Jews living in western nations. Why?

Jewish culture and European culture is very similar. Yiddish is understandable to German speakers.

Jewish culture and European culture is very similar. Yiddish is understandable to German speakers.

Yeah because its a German language. But why did Jews move to Germany to begin with? How is Jewish culture similar to European culture?

The same reason Europeans moved to Europe. It's a nice place to live. But Jews are all over, South America, Russia, Eastern Europe, India...

Actually 80% of Indian Jews left India when Israel was established. And if Europe is a nice place to live, what is the Jewish state doing in Palestine making the desert bloom? And if Jews prefer to live in European or Christian nations [there being only 50,000 Jews in Asia, apart from Israel], why is it so? If they can make money they can succeed anywhere right? So why move to and live in Christian nations?

White supremacy is still alive and kicking . They like to kick Jews . A bunch of them in Coeur D'alene Idaho . They spout off sometimes just to let the world know they still exist . They are mean as can be too . They spend there days practicing fighting, shooting , running and ambushing . They talk about killing politicians and such . Fringe elements yes yet they do still exist .

They are the new picture of the Clan . Well not that new in the terms of a single life . They are Nazis too so the Nazis still live in there dubious behavior . I just wanted to correct a statement earlier that stated the Nazis were gone . Well they are not. They are still lurking in the shadows of modern day life and they hate Jews . They persecute Jews and they live in America .

I never know for sure if I am talking to one of them or not . I have found out after the fact several times . Some hide in regular old fundamental churches some are very blatant about there stance. They call them selves Christian a lot . A whole different out look than most Christians . They except the adoption of Jesus yet they reject the Judaism part of Christianity is all I can think of .

You all do know that America liked old Hitler until he got Caught killing so many Jews. Germans kind of ruled America back in the day and even an Irishman was considered lower than a German in the new world . In fact I heard it said that German was almost the national language at one time .

Well Germans got a nasty name after Hitler was so bad . You don't think of German concentration Camps back then . It is not the first thing that comes to your mind . Yet there was Germans right here in Missoula right along with the Japaneses

White supremacy is still alive and kicking . They like to kick Jews . A bunch of them in Coeur D'alene Idaho . They spout off sometimes just to let the world know they still exist . They are mean as can be too . They spend there days practicing fighting, shooting , running and ambushing . They talk about killing politicians and such . Fringe elements yes yet they do still exist .

They are the new picture of the Clan . Well not that new in the terms of a single life . They are Nazis too so the Nazis still live in there dubious behavior . I just wanted to correct a statement earlier that stated the Nazis were gone . Well they are not. They are still lurking in the shadows of modern day life and they hate Jews . They persecute Jews and they live in America .

I never know for sure if I am talking to one of them or not . I have found out after the fact several times . Some hide in regular old fundamental churches some are very blatant about there stance. They call them selves Christian a lot . A whole different out look than most Christians . They except the adoption of Jesus yet they reject the Judaism part of Christianity is all I can think of .

You all do know that America liked old Hitler until he got Caught killing so many Jews. Germans kind of ruled America back in the day and even an Irishman was considered lower than a German in the new world . In fact I heard it said that German was almost the national language at one time .

Well Germans got a nasty name after Hitler was so bad . You don't think of German concentration Camps back then . It is not the first thing that comes to your mind . Yet there was Germans right here in Missoula right along with the Japaneses


Yeah, I've met my share of racists in America. But I always think that history is more complicated than racists reaching critical mass and losing control over themselves. Indifference, in my opinion, is worse than hatred

Btw, I noticed you leave a space before the period. Interesting.

Actually 80% of Indian Jews left India when Israel was established. And if Europe is a nice place to live, what is the Jewish state doing in Palestine making the desert bloom? And if Jews prefer to live in European or Christian nations [there being only 50,000 Jews in Asia, apart from Israel], why is it so? If they can make money they can succeed anywhere right? So why move to and live in Christian nations?

They figured they could create a European style state in their ancestral homeland. Plus the holocaust happened, so maybe they questioned the prospect of a liberal Europe emerging.

It is easy to be cynic . Hells Bells it is a cynical world . Smear the Queer is still the name of the game . G8d I pray for the day that that statement is a lie . One day my friend one day

I forgot to tell you I am German Heritage our I didn't say it out right . Yeah Grothausen . Westphalia area , Ludenhausen area . Motted Castles and all that. What did my heritage put in Me . Dare I say .
I am a very good exterminator extraordinaire. A killing machine to tell you the truth . I don't know" it just comes natural for Me . I don't know what it is ? It is not that I get that much joy from it for it is a lot more work than you would think . It is almost like it is my day job . What I was born to do . I don't really want to do it . This is the second year I didn't kill something in a long time so well people can change .

Friends !! We can be cynics together and bring hope for a day it don't have to be cause we did all the things it takes to get rid of cynical-ism

Anyway you asked to know G8D better . Hi

Indeed. The Jesuits chose the Jew because he is a "useful idiot." For the one that craves only the material, he can be easily motivated. If one does not believe in an after life, only a day of judgement, then having having a culture of no compunction manipulating others while you spend your days here is easy. The danger however, is it makes your culture an easy patsy to be manipulated. Whether or not there is an after life is irrelevant to the Jesuits however, as they seek the same as all covert interest groups, control. It is easier to control through a proxy though; that proxy gets the ire, and the venom of those being subjugated, while those behind the curtains pulling the strings go on doing what they have always done. . . ;)

You are a very wise man Me-Ki-Gal, I agree, "We can be cynics together and bring hope for a day it don't have to be cause we did all the things it takes to get rid of cynical-ism[!]":m:

The Jesuits chose the Jew because he is a "useful idiot." For the one that craves only the material, he can be easily motivated. If one does not believe in an after life, only a day of judgement, then having having a culture of no compunction manipulating others while you spend your days here is easy. The danger however, is it makes your culture an easy patsy to be manipulated.

Yes, although I think "Ze Jesuits" makes as much sense as "Ze Jews". I noticed that the pogroms in Europe coincided with peasant revolts (http://www.google.co.in/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=jewish+pogroms+peasant+revolts). Which would make Jews the perennial economic patsy. If they are so good with money, they should come up with a more sustainable economic system, because otherwise, they are going to find themselves being manipulated ad nauseum

When a non Jew (such as you guys) bring up a point about the Jews controlling a disproportionate amount of the world's wealth its considered alright.

No, that's classic, ugly antisemitism. Straight out of garbage like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.



But when a Jew such as me brings it up I am somehow internalizing a stereotype and its wrong?

Correct.



Isn't that hypocritical?

What you describe is hypocritical. The actual situation, described here, is consistent.

Actually 80% of Indian Jews left India when Israel was established. And if Europe is a nice place to live, what is the Jewish state doing in Palestine making the desert bloom? And if Jews prefer to live in European or Christian nations [there being only 50,000 Jews in Asia, apart from Israel], why is it so? If they can make money they can succeed anywhere right? So why move to and live in Christian nations?

Timeline slightly out of whack: but don't let that stop you.

No, that's classic, ugly antisemitism. Straight out of garbage like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.





But its true is it not?

Statistics prove it to be true. Are you really that blinded by morality and political correctness that you won't even face facts?

Look, I'm not saying its a good thing that the statistics say that, or even that it is morally right. All I am saying is that it is true, and unless you confront it instead of sweeping it under the rug in the name of "political correctness" your never going to learn anything from it. Your essentially hiding the facts so you can feel good about yourself.

No, it's not a fact.

But its true is it not?

It's true that there are a considerable number of Jews in wealthy and influential positions in the United States. It is less clear that this stereotype holds up on a global basis. Regardless, it also neglects the consierable number of poor Jews in the USA.

Likewise, the statistics you keep pounding on deal exclusively with outliers - a couple dozen rich Jews, compared to a few dozen more mega-rich Americans. That might tell us something about the composition of the super-elite, but it doesn't tell us much about the larger question of where regular Jews fit into the spectrum.

It is not clear that any of this is due to internal cultural factors, nor that it represents a dangerous conspiracy aimed at world domination (these being the places where one veers out of vanilla "statistics" and into ugly bigotry).

And that was the point I was making to fedr - colonised peoples have seen hundreds of years of oppression under Europe. Why would Jews move there? Especially when they had the additional stigma of deicide? We're talking about hatred and suspicion of Jews. Whether its Shakespeare or Churchill, thats a meme that has a loooong history in Europe (http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/). And yet, we have most Jews living in western nations. Why?

Again hanging an entire argument on an elision between "Europe" and "the west." I.e., if you look at Europe - the subject of the leading set of premises there - you find that Jews fled/were destroyed during the Holocaust and now there aren't many there. You only get the statistic about most Jews living in "western nations" by including the USA, which is not the culture that produced Shakespeare, Churchill, the ghettos, the Holocaust, etc.

No, it's not a fact.

Spidey My Grand Daughter was born in Portland yesterday . Do you get the paper ? Hazel Greathouse is her name . Can you look at it for me so I can live vicariously though your Eyes . I don't know if it would be in today's paper .
11/8/11 12:13. I forget her middle name . I wonder if her hair is red ? Red or Blond is my best guess

This makes Me think of a Steely Dan song

Well, I guess, at least the Nazis were giving them a bowl of soup a day, the British couldn't even be bothered with that. I guess that could explain why so many Jews leave their Jewish state for Berlin. What do you think?

I think it's cheap and offensive to equate modern Germany with the Nazis.



I think I'll wait for fedr to tell me why Jews migrate to Christian nations inspite of a history of persecution there.

Since the main "Christian nation" (actually, secular multi-cultural republic) that Jews have ended up in is the USA, and the history of persecution of Jews here ranks pretty far down on the list, this question is again ill-posed and asinine. Nothing more than excuse for airing ugly bigotry from yourself.

It's true that there are a considerable number of Jews in wealthy and influential positions in the United States. It is less clear that this stereotype holds up on a global basis. Regardless, it also neglects the consierable number of poor Jews in the USA.

Likewise, the statistics you keep pounding on deal exclusively with outliers - a couple dozen rich Jews, compared to a few dozen more mega-rich Americans. That might tell us something about the composition of the super-elite, but it doesn't tell us much about the larger question of where regular Jews fit into the spectrum.

It is not clear that any of this is due to internal cultural factors, nor that it represents a dangerous conspiracy aimed at world domination (these being the places where one veers out of vanilla "statistics" and into ugly bigotry).

Look, by control the world's wealth I don't mean that they are controlling economies.

What I mean is this. I have sixty dollars in my wallet right now, I am controlling sixty dollars of the world's wealth right now in my wallet. I am not using it in terms of those idiotic conspiracy theories that are being passed around these days.

Look, an outlier is one, maybe two examples outside of the standard norm. There are thirty examples in this case out of 100 possible. That is far outside the standard deviation.

And that was just one statistic, what about the other one where 55% of Jews in America have a college degree and around 25% have a graduate degree?

Its a commonly accepted fact that people graduating from college make significantly more then those that did not graduate from college. As well as that people with a graduate degree make more then people with a bachelor's degree.

The overall figures in the US are that 29% of all Americans have college degrees and 6% have graduate degrees.

Now, I am going to go out on a stretch here and say that common sense is allowed in this debate. If you accept that on average college graduates make more then non college graduates and that people with graduate degrees make more then people with bachelor's degrees then you must also accept that in theory that means that the average Jew in the United States makes more then the average American.

Now, I am only making this argument within the United States because I think we both know that the only reason you guys are trying to drag me into a global generalization is because it is an unwinnable argument for me because there are too many variables at stake that skew the data globally for anyone to make any solid theory out of.

Actually 80% of Indian Jews left India when Israel was established. And if Europe is a nice place to live, what is the Jewish state doing in Palestine making the desert bloom? And if Jews prefer to live in European or Christian nations [there being only 50,000 Jews in Asia, apart from Israel], why is it so? If they can make money they can succeed anywhere right? So why move to and live in Christian nations?

There are more Jews in Israel, hence the Jews prefer Israel to Europe.

Are you finished? Or are you going to try and convince me that a few hundred speak for a few million?

Well, I guess, at least the Nazis were giving them a bowl of soup a day,

Yes, right after they had them shower with wooden soap and xlylon b instead of water.

But then, life is cheap where you come from, isn't it?

No I'm saying they continued to move to societies where they faced persecution and left societies where they did not.

The lion's share of the world's Jews reside in the USA and Israel, and came from Europe and the Arab states. So, your assertion is inane on its face.

Moreover, you have exactly zero standing to speak for what level of persecution Jews suffered in whatever locales, nor demand answers for their migratory decisions. You can go ahead and ask them, honestly and respectfully, if you want a serious answer. Or you can keep up the Jew-trolling here, and remain pigheaded and stupid.



Obviously there was some advantage to them in moving to majority Christian nations over say, China or the Phillipines

Level of development, economic and educational opportunities, overpopulation, immigration policies, etc. would all presumably figure very directly into migratory decisions made by anyone, above and beyond the question of the majority religion.



where no one would give a damn how Jewish or ethnocentric they were.

This is a completely hollow assertion. You've provided nobody any reason whatsoever to believe it is accurate.

And meanwhile, as SciForum's self-appointed spokesman for "asian culture and discourse," your long-standing habit of devoting the majority of your time and energy here to obsessive Jew-baiting speaks strongly against your characterizations of "Asian" attitudes towards Jews.

There is also the inanity of presenting "Asia" as one society with a single discourse and set of attitudes towards migrants, ethnocentricism, Jews, etc. Who do you imagine is fooled by this equivocation between, say, India and Korea? The same ones that are fooled by sloppy elisions between "Europe" and "the west," I would suppose...



Even today, Israelis may vacation in India, but they move to Berlin.

Indeed - the Germans feel really badly about the whole Holocaust thing, and have been going out of their way to make amends for such for generations now. You'll notice a striking lack of Germans who troll SciForums with Jew-bait - would that we could say the same thing about Indians.

And, again, it shouldn't really beggar the imagination that inhabitants of a highly-developed country with a high standard of living would prefer to migrate to other such places, rather than a country that displays some of tens of thousands move out of India every year. So the fact that some group of people isn't moving into India doesn't say anything at all about them. Likewise with people moving into Germany.



Clearly they have a preference for Christian nations over others

You have not made any serious, honest attempt at establishing that. Instead, you have proferred a string of inane fallacies strung together with prejudice and flamebait.

On the upside, it looks like you're starting to home in on the appropriate subforum for this kind of trash.

Originally Posted by S.A.M.
Obviously there was some advantage to them in moving to majority Christian nations over say, China or the Phillipines

Given a choice, why would someone want to move to a third world shithouse, to live a life of poverty and oppression, when they can go someplace which offers advancement, security and relative wealth?

Look, by control the world's wealth I don't mean that they are controlling economies.

There is no real difference between "control the world's wealth" and "control economies."



What I mean is this. I have sixty dollars in my wallet right now, I am controlling sixty dollars of the world's wealth right now in my wallet. I am not using it in terms of those idiotic conspiracy theories that are being passed around these days.

That's because 60 dollars isn't enough wealth to give you any power over anything so sizeable as a national economy. Control of the banking or finance sectors - the sorts of things the conspiracies are made of - are a different story.



Look, an outlier is one, maybe two examples outside of the standard norm. There are thirty examples in this case out of 100 possible. That is far outside the standard deviation.

You need to go back and learn basic statistics. What you've shown is that the mega-rich (i.e., top 100 individuals in a country of 320 million) are more Jewish than you'd expect by chance. That does not show that your average Jew - of whom there are millions in the United States - is wealthier than you'd expect by chance. It doesn't tell us anything whatsoever about Jews in general. It only tells us about the mega-rich - themselves outliers in the first place.



And that was just one statistic, what about the other one where 55% of Jews in America have a college degree and around 25% have a graduate degree?

That's getting better - it at least addresses large, general populations instead of limiting itself to extreme outliers at the outset.

But it's not actually all that far out of line with the national averages. For one thing, it still leaves them a bit behind the Asians - so why aren't all these stereotypes being applied to them as well?



Now, I am only making this argument within the United States because I think we both know that the only reason you guys are trying to drag me into a global generalization is because it is an unwinnable argument for me because there are too many variables at stake that skew the data globally for anyone to make any solid theory out of.

No, the reason is that you are making general statements about "Jews," and then failing to establish that they apply outside of the USA. If you are content to limit your assertions to apply exclusively to "Jews in America," then that's fine by me. Except then, people will have a hard time making the case that this is all about some inherent property of Jewishness, rather than some facet of how Jews got to America and how America relates to them.

The lion's share of the world's Jews reside in the USA and Israel, and came from Europe and the Arab states. So, your assertion is inane on its face.

Moreover, you have exactly zero standing to speak for what level of persecution Jews suffered in whatever locales, nor demand answers for their migratory decisions. You can go ahead and ask them, honestly and respectfully, if you want a serious answer. Or you can keep up the Jew-trolling here, and remain pigheaded and stupid.



Level of development, economic and educational opportunities, overpopulation, immigration policies, etc. would all presumably figure very directly into migratory decisions made by anyone, above and beyond the question of the majority religion.



This is a completely hollow assertion. You've provided nobody any reason whatsoever to believe it is accurate.

And meanwhile, as SciForum's self-appointed spokesman for "asian culture and discourse," your long-standing habit of devoting the majority of your time and energy here to obsessive Jew-baiting speaks strongly against your characterizations of "Asian" attitudes towards Jews.

There is also the inanity of presenting "Asia" as one society with a single discourse and set of attitudes towards migrants, ethnocentricism, Jews, etc. Who do you imagine is fooled by this equivocation between, say, India and Korea? The same ones that are fooled by sloppy elisions between "Europe" and "the west," I would suppose...



Indeed - the Germans feel really badly about the whole Holocaust thing, and have been going out of their way to make amends for such for generations now. You'll notice a striking lack of Germans who troll SciForums with Jew-bait - would that we could say the same thing about Indians.

And, again, it shouldn't really beggar the imagination that inhabitants of a highly-developed country with a high standard of living would prefer to migrate to other such places, rather than a country that displays some of tens of thousands move out of India every year. So the fact that some group of people isn't moving into India doesn't say anything at all about them. Likewise with people moving into Germany.



You have not made any serious, honest attempt at establishing that. Instead, you have proferred a string of inane fallacies strung together with prejudice and flamebait.

On the upside, it looks like you're starting to home in on the appropriate subforum for this kind of trash.

I think it is Hone . Not Home . Like honing a knife . Sharping the tool . Your starting to hone in . I could be wrong and you know I like Home , House Shelter Temple Palace and all that but I am pretty sure the expression is Hone in

There is no real difference between "control the world's wealth" and "control economies."



That's because 60 dollars isn't enough wealth to give you any power over anything so sizeable as a national economy. Control of the banking or finance sectors - the sorts of things the conspiracies are made of - are a different story.



You need to go back and learn basic statistics. What you've shown is that the mega-rich (i.e., top 100 individuals in a country of 320 million) are more Jewish than you'd expect by chance. That does not show that your average Jew - of whom there are millions in the United States - is wealthier than you'd expect by chance. It doesn't tell us anything whatsoever about Jews in general. It only tells us about the mega-rich - themselves outliers in the first place.



That's getting better - it at least addresses large, general populations instead of limiting itself to extreme outliers at the outset.

But it's not actually all that far out of line with the national averages. For one thing, it still leaves them a bit behind the Asians - so why aren't all these stereotypes being applied to them as well?



No, the reason is that you are making general statements about "Jews," and then failing to establish that they apply outside of the USA. If you are content to limit your assertions to apply exclusively to "Jews in America," then that's fine by me. Except then, people will have a hard time making the case that this is all about some inherent property of Jewishness, rather than some facet of how Jews got to America and how America relates to them.

But the fact is that while I have not included any global statistics neither has anyone else either.

It's one thing to question my hypothesis due to lack of evidence, but its immoral to disqualify its validity due to lack of evidence.

The fact is that statistics will be skewed in different countries, if I got statistics from Iran how in the world would I be assured of their validity? Moreover, even if the statistics were accurate as per some sort of census, how would I know that they aren't heavily influenced due to innate racism in that country preventing Jews from attaining high stature for example?

How do we dictate which countries to take statistics from and which not to?

It's one thing to question my hypothesis due to lack of evidence, but its immoral to disqualify its validity due to lack of evidence.

to?
Not really for that is what they say about God in general on the Science Forum . It is not the objective for science to prove there is a god but rather it is for the Theist to prove there is a God. You see the similarity . Morals have nothing to do with scientific discovery . Only in a legal since if you got an injunction saying you got to stop . Otherwise cut the rat bastards open with a big fillet knife . Dissect that puppy . Flip it upside down and all around

@fed --


It's one thing to question my hypothesis due to lack of evidence, but its immoral to disqualify its validity due to lack of evidence.

Actually dismissing it is exactly what we should do when you fail to support it. It is neither immoral nor inappropriate to do so, it's what scientists do every day. If you fail to support your burden of proof then you give us a very good reason to dismiss it and literally no reason to accept it.

But the fact is that while I have not included any global statistics neither has anyone else either.

Indeed - and so nobody has any statistical basis to say anything about "the Jews." And so anyone doing so, is expressing their own personal prejudice and nothing more.



The fact is that statistics will be skewed in different countries, if I got statistics from Iran how in the world would I be assured of their validity?

I aknowledge that there are practical impediments to doing the statistics properly. That does not mean that improper statistics can be substituted in their place. If you're going to stick only to Jews in America, then you cannot conclude anything whatsoever about Jews in general from that data. So, you can either broaden your data set, or constrict the implications you draw from it. I leave the choice up to you.



Moreover, even if the statistics were accurate as per some sort of census, how would I know that they aren't heavily influenced due to innate racism in that country preventing Jews from attaining high stature for example?

You wouldn't, at least without conducting some other study of such social factors. Otherwise, you'd have to average over many countries to hope to cancel out such effects. Which gets back to my point: how do you know that the statistics about Jews in the USA aren't heavily influenced by some other factor specific to the USA (and not inherent to Jews)? Such as, again, the obvious point that the Jewish population in the USA is largely derived from Holocaust survivors, whom we'd expect to have been more wealthy and connected and mobile than your average European Jew.



How do we dictate which countries to take statistics from and which not to?

If you want to draw statistical conclusions about Jews in general, then you must use all countries with significant Jewish populations. Otherwise, you cannot draw valid conclusions about Jews in general, only Jews in the specific contexts of the countries you are examining. The choice is yours, but the one thing that you cannot do is limit your data to convenient, specific locations and then claim that it speaks to anything larger.

I think it is Hone . Not Home . Like honing a knife . Sharping the tool . Your starting to hone in . I could be wrong and you know I like Home , House Shelter Temple Palace and all that but I am pretty sure the expression is Hone in

No, the phrase is "home in on." It derives from the use of "homing pigeons," and was originally an aeronautics term for radio-guidance (using "homing beacons"). I don't know where this recent trend towards the nonsense phrase "hone in on" has come from, but I gather it's pretty strictly limited to the USA. Regardless, you can count on me to steadfastly resist this corruption of the language.

http://grammar.about.com/od/alightersideofwriting/a/homehonegloss.htm

Are you finished? Or are you going to try and convince me that a few hundred speak for a few million?

You're seriously asking this of an individual who pretends to speak for "Asia?"

Yes, although I think "Ze Jesuits" makes as much sense as "Ze Jews". I noticed that the pogroms in Europe coincided with peasant revolts (http://www.google.co.in/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=jewish+pogroms+peasant+revolts). Which would make Jews the perennial economic patsy. If they are so good with money, they should come up with a more sustainable economic system, because otherwise, they are going to find themselves being manipulated ad nauseum
Unless they decide to get out of banking altogether and quit funding war? :p

It really is a nasty way to make a living. :bugeye:

I think it's cheap and offensive to equate modern Germany with the Nazis.

Less even than that: it just doesn't fit. It's a disjunction; just massive, empty trolling. Or else an impressively poor comprehension of the simple concept of sequence.

Yes, although I think "Ze Jesuits" makes as much sense as "Ze Jews". I noticed that the pogroms in Europe coincided with peasant revolts (http://www.google.co.in/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=jewish+pogroms+peasant+revolts). Which would make Jews the perennial economic patsy. If they are so good with money, they should come up with a more sustainable economic system, because otherwise, they are going to find themselves being manipulated ad nauseum

I amend that. I think this might be the Zionists last time out. Or do you really think they haven't thrown in with the Free Masons?

If "Ze Jesuits" can get the Russians and Chinese on board it appears, that capital is sort of centrally located. I can't find a whole lot of information on this. :p
The new world orders great city: Astana, Khazakhstan
http://www.virtualtravel.narod.ru/Travel_Kazahstan/011.jpg (http://welcometoafreeworld.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-world-orders-great-city-astana.html)

http://xaodiamar.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/pyramid1.jpg (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=17e110b5e831c1ca75d3c0a2ff2890b0&ct=3dbl&hl=en)

It was designed by architect Sir Norman Foster and inaugurated in September 2006. Also translated as the Pyramid of Peace and Accord, It contains accommodations for different religions: Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and other faiths. It also houses a 1,500- seat opera house, a national museum of culture, a new “university of civilization”, a library and a research center for Kazakhstan’s ethnic and geographical groups. This diversity is unified within the pure form of a pyramid, 62meters high, with a 62x62m base. The building is conceived as a global center for religious understanding, the renunciation of violence and the promotion of faith and human equality. The engineers had to design the building to withstand expansion and contraction due to temperature variations of over 80°C, from -40 to over 40°C - leading to an expansion of the building of up to 30cm. And the colors were taken from the Kazakhstan flag.

I think it's cheap and offensive to equate modern Germany with the Nazis.

That would be true if it were a one off. But its not, is it? Europeans have a history of pogroms against Jews. Its what, barely 60 years since the last one.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/




Since the main "Christian nation" (actually, secular multi-cultural republic) that Jews have ended up in is the USA, and the history of persecution of Jews here ranks pretty far down on the list, this question is again ill-posed and asinine. Nothing more than excuse for airing ugly bigotry from yourself.

Right upto the 50s, Americans had antisemitic attitudes towards Jews. So once again, not talking ancient history here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States


Yes, right after they had them shower with wooden soap and xlylon b instead of water.

But then, life is cheap where you come from, isn't it?

Pretty much yeah. You see any cavalry rushing to rescue starving Indians even though they were starving over a much longer period? Hell, we were starving because of the cavalry. We pretty much have had to rescue ourselves at all times. No handouts or museums for our holocausts.



Given a choice, why would someone want to move to a third world shithouse, to live a life of poverty and oppression, when they can go someplace which offers advancement, security and relative wealth?

You mean inspite of the pogroms? Which is what I was pointing out to fedr. That the reason most Jews kept going back to Europe, over and over, is because they had an advantage in Christian nations which they did not have in other non-Christian nations - in about 2000 years, Jews did not make much money in Mumbai:



India is almost unique among countires of the world in its attitude towards its Jews. There is no known anti-Semititism in India nor are Jews looked upon as in any significant way different from the many Indian minority religions. The character of Indian culture -- its relative placidity, its acceptance of diversity, and its inherent communalism -- have given the Jews a sanctuary the likes of which has never been known in any of the countries of the western world. At the same time Indian Jewry has, perforce, acquired the characteristics of the Indian population in general. Their social patterns, psychological characteristics, and culture all bear the marks of the civilization within which they have been located for hundreds if not thousands of years.
http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/india.htm


Now why would anyone choose that ^^^ over this:

1096 C.E. Northern France & Germany 1/3 of Jewish Population Massacred
1096 C.E. Hungary Massacre
1096 C.E. Ralisbon Massacre
1099 C.E. Jerusalem Jews Burned Alive
1100 C.E. Kiev Pogrom
1140 C.E. Germany Massacres
1146 C.E. Rhine Valley Massacre
1147 C.E. Wurzburg Massacre
1147 C.E. Belitz (Germany) Jews Burned Alive
1147 C.E. Carenton, Ramenu & Sully (France) Massacres
1171 C.E. Blois Stake Burnings
1181 C.E. France Expulsion
1181 C.E. England Property Confiscation
1188 C.E. London & York Mob Attacks
1190 C.E. Norfolk Jews Burned Alive
1191 C.E. Bray (France) Jews Burned Alive
1195 C.E. France Property Confiscation
1209 C.E. Beziers Massacre
1212 C.E. Spain Rioting and blood bath against the Jews of Toledo.
1215 C.E. Rome Lateran Council of Rome decrees that Jews must wear the "badge of shame" in all Christian countries. Jews are denied all public sector employment, and are burdened with extra taxes.
1215 C.E. Toulouse (France) Mass Arrests
1218 C.E. England Jews Forced to Wear Badges
1231 C.E. Rome Inquisition Established
1236 C.E. France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1239 C.E. London Massacre & Property Confiscation
1240 C.E. Austria Property confiscation. Jews either imprisoned, converted, expelled, or burned.
1240 C.E. France Talmud Confiscated
1240 C.E. England Book Burning
1240 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
1242 C.E. Paris Talmud Burned
1244 C.E. Oxford Mob Attacks
1255 C.E. England Blood libel in Lincoln results in the burning / torture of many Jews & public hangings.
1261 C.E. Canterbury Mob Attacks
1262 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. Germany Council of Vienna declares that all Jews must wear a "pointed dunce cap." Thousands murdered.
1267 C.E. Vienna Jews Forced to Wear Horned Hats
1270 C.E. Weissenberg, Magdeburg, Arnstadt, Coblenz, Singzig, and Erfurt Jews Burned Alive
1270 C.E. England The libel of the "counterfeit coins" - all Jewish men, women and children in England imprisoned. Hundreds are hung.
1276 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1278 C.E. Genoa (Spain) Mob Attacks
1279 C.E. Hungary & Poland The Council of Offon denies Jews the right to all civic positions. The Jews of Hungary & Poland are forced to wear the "red badge of shame."
1283 C.E. Mayence & Bacharach Mob Attacks
1285 C.E. Munich Jews Burned Alive
1290 C.E. England King Edward I issues an edict banishing all Jews from England. Many drowned.
1291 C.E. France The Jewish refugees from England are promptly expelled from France.
1292 C.E. Italy Forced conversions & expulsion of the Italian Jewish community.
1298 C.E. Germany The libel of the "Desecrated Host" is perpetrated against the Jews of Germany. Approximately 150 Jewish communities undergo forced conversion.
1298 C.E. Franconia, Bavaria & Austria Reindfel's Decree is propagated against the Jews of Franconia and Bavarai. Riots against these Jewish communities, as well as those in Austria, result in the massacre of 100,000 Jews over a six-month period.
1306 C.E. France Expulsion
1308 C.E. Strasbourg Jews Burned Alive
1320 C.E. Toulouse & Perpigon 120 Communities Massacred & Talmud Burned
1321 C.E. Teruel Public Executions
1328 C.E. Estella 5,000 Jews Slaughtered
1348 C.E. France & Spain Jews Burned Alive
1348 C.E. Switzerland Expulsion
1349 C.E. Worms, Strasbourg, Oppenheim, Mayence, Erfurt, Bavaria & Swabia Jews Burned Alive
1349 C.E. Heilbronn (Germany) Expulsion
1349 C.E. Hungary Expulsion
1354 C.E. Castile (Spain) 12,000 Jews Slaughtered
1368 C.E. Toledo 8,000 Jews Slaughtered
1370 C.E. Majorca., Penignon & Barcelona Mob Attack
1377 C.E. Huesca (Spain) Jews Burned Alive
1380 C.E. Paris Mob Attack
1384 C.E. Nordlingen Mass Murder
1388 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1389 C.E. Prague Mass Slaughter & Book Burning
1391 C.E. Castille, Toledo, Madrid, Seville, Cordova, Cuenca & Barcelona Forced Conversions & Mass Murder
1394 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1394 C.E. France Expulsion
1399 C.E. Posen (Poland) Jews Burned Alive
1400 C.E. Prague Stake Burnings
1407 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1415 C.E. Rome Talmud Confiscated
1422 C.E. Austria Jews Burned Alive
1422 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1424 C.E. Fribourg & Zurich Expulsion
1426 C.E. Cologne Expulsion
1431 C.E. Southern Germany Jews Burned Alive
1432 C.E. Savory Expulsion
1438 C.E. Mainz Expulsion
1439 C.E. Augsburg Expulsion
1449 C.E. Toledo Public Torture &. Burnings
1456 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1453 C.E. Franconia Expulsion
1453 C.E. Breslau Expulsion
1454 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1463 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1473 C.E. Andalusia Mob Attack
1480 C.E. Venice Jews Burned Alive
1481 C.E. Seville Stake Burnings
1484 C.E. Cuidad Real, Guadalupe, Saragossa & Teruel Jews Burned Alive
1485 C.E. Vincenza (Italy) Expulsion
1486 C.E. Toledo Jews Burned Alive
1488 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
1490 C.E. Toledo Public Executions
1491 C.E. Astorga Public Torture & Execution
1492 C.E. Spain Expulsion
1495 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1497 C.E. Portugal Expulsion
1499 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1506 C.E. Lisbon Mob Attack
1510 C.E. Berlin Public Torture & Execution
1514 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1519 C.E. Regensburg Expulsion
1539 C.E. Cracow & Portugal Stake Burnings
1540 C.E. Naples Expulsion
1542 C.E. Bohemia Expulsion
1550 C.E. Genoa Expulsion
1551 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1555 C.E. Pesaro Expulsion
1556 C.E. Sokhachev (Poland) Public Torture & Execution
1559 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1561 C.E. Prague Expulsion
1567 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1569 C.E. Papal States Expulsion
1571 C.E. Brandenburg Expulsion
1582 C.E. Netherlands Expulsion
1593 C.E. Brunswick Expulsion
1597 C.E. Cremona, Pavia & Lodi Expulsion
1614 C.E. Frankfort Expulsion
1615 C.E. Worms Expulsion
1619 C.E. Kiev Expulsion
1635 C.E. Vilna Mob Attack
1637 C.E. Cracow Public Torture & Execution
1647 C.E. Lisbon Jews Burned Alive
1648 C.E. Poland 1/3 of Jewry Slaughtered
1649 C.E. Ukraine Expulsion
1649 C.E. Hamburg Expulsion
1652 C.E. Lisbon Stake Burnings
1654 C.E. Little Russia Expulsion
1656 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1660 C.E. Seville Jews Burned Alive
1663 C.E Cracow Public Torture &. Execution
1664 C.E. Lemberg Mob Attack
1669 C.E. Oran (North Africa) Expulsion
1670 C.E. Vienna Expulsion
1671 C.E. Minsk Mob Attacks
1681 C.E. Vilna Mob Attacks
1682 C.E. Cracow Mob Attacks
1687 C.E. Posen Mob Attacks
1712 C.E. Sandomir Expulsion
1727 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1738 C.E. Wurtemburg Expulsion
1740 C.E. Liule Russia Expulsion
1744 C.E Bohemia Expulsion
1744 C.E. Livonia Expulsion
1745 C.E. Moravia Expulsion
1753 C.E. Kovad (Lithuania) Expulsion
1757 C.E. Kamenetz Talmud Burning
1761 C.E. Bordeaux Expulsion
1768 C.E. Kiev 3,000 Jews Slaughtered
1772 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1775 C.E. Warsaw Expulsion
1789 C.E. Alsace Expulsion
1801 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attack
1804 C.E. Russian Villages Expulsion
1808 C.E. Russian Countryside Expulsion
1815 C.E. Lubeck & Bremen Expulsion
1820 C.E. Bremes Expulsion
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia Expulsion
1850 C.E. New York City 500 People, Led by Police, Attacked & Wrecked Jewish Synagogue
1862 C.E. Area under General Grant's Jurisdiction in the United States Expulsion
1866 C.E Galatz (Romania) Expulsion
1871 C.E. Odena Mob Attack
1887 C.E. Slovakia Mob Attacks
1897 C.E. Kantakuzenka (Russia) Mob Attacks
1898 C.E. Rennes (France) Mob Attack
1899 C.E. Nicholayev Mob Attack
1900 C.E. Konitz (Prussia) Mob Attack
1902 C.E. Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 C.E. Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 C.E Bavaria Expulsion
1915 C.E. Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 C.E. Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 C.E. Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 C.E. Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 C.E. Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 C.E. Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 C.E. Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 C.E. Berlin Mob Attack
1933 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attacks
1938-45 C.E. Europe Holocaust

And they are increasingly going back again, correct?

If they were universally good at making money why would they keep going back? Why not make money where they are?

Indeed - the Germans feel really badly about the whole Holocaust thing, and have been going out of their way to make amends for such for generations now. You'll notice a striking lack of Germans who troll SciForums with Jew-bait - would that we could say the same thing about Indians.


Yeah Indians, like Jews for instance, have a lot of opinions. We like to argue about everything, its part of our culture.

Germans on the other hand, invest in action:


Since the beginning of the year, new rules on immigration have had the effect of sharply reducing the numbers of Jews immigrating to Germany, at least temporarily ending a 15-year policy aimed at rebuilding the Jewish community that was destroyed by the Nazis.

Over the past decade, as a result of the virtual blanket acceptance of Jews from the former Soviet Union, Germany's Jewish population has risen from roughly 29,000 to more than 200,000, which is more than one-third of the prewar total.

But at the moment, almost all those special privileges have been brought to an end, as the German government and Jewish groups work out a new set of guidelines on immigration that both sides desire for different reasons.

It seems likely that former Soviet Jews will eventually have some of their former privileged position restored, but there also seems little doubt that the numbers of Jews accepted for immigration to Germany are going to fall sharply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/world/europe/20iht-rhine.html


Unless they decide to get out of banking altogether

Why should they? Do we demand Americans stop making money? The problem is not Jews, the problem is the financial system we live in. Some people are better at it. In India we watch the Marwaris' investments because they are stupendously ingenious at making money. You never know how much they have because - except at weddings - they live very simple lives and rarely flaunt their wealth. But everyone knows that Marwaris make money no matter where they go. Its what they do anywhere in the world even in remote villages where no one could possibly see any profit. They are famous for their pawnshops and financing local debts and creating capital for local business ventures. You wanna make a business proposition work, you find a Marwari to manage it. The Birlas, Mittals, Bajaj, Singhania - people recognise their talent and appreciate their business acumen.


and quit funding war? :p

It really is a nasty way to make a living. :bugeye:

There is a difference between making money and using it at the expense of other people. I think the second part is where most people flounder. Jews just happen to make convenient scapegoats for such. I bet for every Jew who is funding the war, you'll find at least a hundred non Jews who are also doing the same.


I amend that. I think this might be the Zionists last time out

And who are the Zionists. Apart from Jews who have swallowed the Christian Zionism and invented Messianic Judaism?

1096 C.E. Northern France & Germany 1/3 of Jewish Population Massacred
1096 C.E. Hungary Massacre
1096 C.E. Ralisbon Massacre
1099 C.E. Jerusalem Jews Burned Alive
1100 C.E. Kiev Pogrom
1140 C.E. Germany Massacres
1146 C.E. Rhine Valley Massacre
1147 C.E. Wurzburg Massacre
1147 C.E. Belitz (Germany) Jews Burned Alive
1147 C.E. Carenton, Ramenu & Sully (France) Massacres
1171 C.E. Blois Stake Burnings
1181 C.E. France Expulsion
1181 C.E. England Property Confiscation
1188 C.E. London & York Mob Attacks
1190 C.E. Norfolk Jews Burned Alive
1191 C.E. Bray (France) Jews Burned Alive
1195 C.E. France Property Confiscation
1209 C.E. Beziers Massacre
1212 C.E. Spain Rioting and blood bath against the Jews of Toledo.
1215 C.E. Rome Lateran Council of Rome decrees that Jews must wear the "badge of shame" in all Christian countries. Jews are denied all public sector employment, and are burdened with extra taxes.
1215 C.E. Toulouse (France) Mass Arrests
1218 C.E. England Jews Forced to Wear Badges
1231 C.E. Rome Inquisition Established
1236 C.E. France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1239 C.E. London Massacre & Property Confiscation
1240 C.E. Austria Property confiscation. Jews either imprisoned, converted, expelled, or burned.
1240 C.E. France Talmud Confiscated
1240 C.E. England Book Burning
1240 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
1242 C.E. Paris Talmud Burned
1244 C.E. Oxford Mob Attacks
1255 C.E. England Blood libel in Lincoln results in the burning / torture of many Jews & public hangings.
1261 C.E. Canterbury Mob Attacks
1262 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. Germany Council of Vienna declares that all Jews must wear a "pointed dunce cap." Thousands murdered.
1267 C.E. Vienna Jews Forced to Wear Horned Hats
1270 C.E. Weissenberg, Magdeburg, Arnstadt, Coblenz, Singzig, and Erfurt Jews Burned Alive
1270 C.E. England The libel of the "counterfeit coins" - all Jewish men, women and children in England imprisoned. Hundreds are hung.
1276 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1278 C.E. Genoa (Spain) Mob Attacks
1279 C.E. Hungary & Poland The Council of Offon denies Jews the right to all civic positions. The Jews of Hungary & Poland are forced to wear the "red badge of shame."
1283 C.E. Mayence & Bacharach Mob Attacks
1285 C.E. Munich Jews Burned Alive
1290 C.E. England King Edward I issues an edict banishing all Jews from England. Many drowned.
1291 C.E. France The Jewish refugees from England are promptly expelled from France.
1292 C.E. Italy Forced conversions & expulsion of the Italian Jewish community.
1298 C.E. Germany The libel of the "Desecrated Host" is perpetrated against the Jews of Germany. Approximately 150 Jewish communities undergo forced conversion.
1298 C.E. Franconia, Bavaria & Austria Reindfel's Decree is propagated against the Jews of Franconia and Bavarai. Riots against these Jewish communities, as well as those in Austria, result in the massacre of 100,000 Jews over a six-month period.
1306 C.E. France Expulsion
1308 C.E. Strasbourg Jews Burned Alive
1320 C.E. Toulouse & Perpigon 120 Communities Massacred & Talmud Burned
1321 C.E. Teruel Public Executions
1328 C.E. Estella 5,000 Jews Slaughtered
1348 C.E. France & Spain Jews Burned Alive
1348 C.E. Switzerland Expulsion
1349 C.E. Worms, Strasbourg, Oppenheim, Mayence, Erfurt, Bavaria & Swabia Jews Burned Alive
1349 C.E. Heilbronn (Germany) Expulsion
1349 C.E. Hungary Expulsion
1354 C.E. Castile (Spain) 12,000 Jews Slaughtered
1368 C.E. Toledo 8,000 Jews Slaughtered
1370 C.E. Majorca., Penignon & Barcelona Mob Attack
1377 C.E. Huesca (Spain) Jews Burned Alive
1380 C.E. Paris Mob Attack
1384 C.E. Nordlingen Mass Murder
1388 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1389 C.E. Prague Mass Slaughter & Book Burning
1391 C.E. Castille, Toledo, Madrid, Seville, Cordova, Cuenca & Barcelona Forced Conversions & Mass Murder
1394 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1394 C.E. France Expulsion
1399 C.E. Posen (Poland) Jews Burned Alive
1400 C.E. Prague Stake Burnings
1407 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1415 C.E. Rome Talmud Confiscated
1422 C.E. Austria Jews Burned Alive
1422 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1424 C.E. Fribourg & Zurich Expulsion
1426 C.E. Cologne Expulsion
1431 C.E. Southern Germany Jews Burned Alive
1432 C.E. Savory Expulsion
1438 C.E. Mainz Expulsion
1439 C.E. Augsburg Expulsion
1449 C.E. Toledo Public Torture &. Burnings
1456 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1453 C.E. Franconia Expulsion
1453 C.E. Breslau Expulsion
1454 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1463 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1473 C.E. Andalusia Mob Attack
1480 C.E. Venice Jews Burned Alive
1481 C.E. Seville Stake Burnings
1484 C.E. Cuidad Real, Guadalupe, Saragossa & Teruel Jews Burned Alive
1485 C.E. Vincenza (Italy) Expulsion
1486 C.E. Toledo Jews Burned Alive
1488 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
1490 C.E. Toledo Public Executions
1491 C.E. Astorga Public Torture & Execution
1492 C.E. Spain Expulsion
1495 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1497 C.E. Portugal Expulsion
1499 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1506 C.E. Lisbon Mob Attack
1510 C.E. Berlin Public Torture & Execution
1514 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1519 C.E. Regensburg Expulsion
1539 C.E. Cracow & Portugal Stake Burnings
1540 C.E. Naples Expulsion
1542 C.E. Bohemia Expulsion
1550 C.E. Genoa Expulsion
1551 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1555 C.E. Pesaro Expulsion
1556 C.E. Sokhachev (Poland) Public Torture & Execution
1559 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1561 C.E. Prague Expulsion
1567 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1569 C.E. Papal States Expulsion
1571 C.E. Brandenburg Expulsion
1582 C.E. Netherlands Expulsion
1593 C.E. Brunswick Expulsion
1597 C.E. Cremona, Pavia & Lodi Expulsion
1614 C.E. Frankfort Expulsion
1615 C.E. Worms Expulsion
1619 C.E. Kiev Expulsion
1635 C.E. Vilna Mob Attack
1637 C.E. Cracow Public Torture & Execution
1647 C.E. Lisbon Jews Burned Alive
1648 C.E. Poland 1/3 of Jewry Slaughtered
1649 C.E. Ukraine Expulsion
1649 C.E. Hamburg Expulsion
1652 C.E. Lisbon Stake Burnings
1654 C.E. Little Russia Expulsion
1656 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1660 C.E. Seville Jews Burned Alive
1663 C.E Cracow Public Torture &. Execution
1664 C.E. Lemberg Mob Attack
1669 C.E. Oran (North Africa) Expulsion
1670 C.E. Vienna Expulsion
1671 C.E. Minsk Mob Attacks
1681 C.E. Vilna Mob Attacks
1682 C.E. Cracow Mob Attacks
1687 C.E. Posen Mob Attacks
1712 C.E. Sandomir Expulsion
1727 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1738 C.E. Wurtemburg Expulsion
1740 C.E. Liule Russia Expulsion
1744 C.E Bohemia Expulsion
1744 C.E. Livonia Expulsion
1745 C.E. Moravia Expulsion
1753 C.E. Kovad (Lithuania) Expulsion
1757 C.E. Kamenetz Talmud Burning
1761 C.E. Bordeaux Expulsion
1768 C.E. Kiev 3,000 Jews Slaughtered
1772 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1775 C.E. Warsaw Expulsion
1789 C.E. Alsace Expulsion
1801 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attack
1804 C.E. Russian Villages Expulsion
1808 C.E. Russian Countryside Expulsion
1815 C.E. Lubeck & Bremen Expulsion
1820 C.E. Bremes Expulsion
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia Expulsion
1850 C.E. New York City 500 People, Led by Police, Attacked & Wrecked Jewish Synagogue
1862 C.E. Area under General Grant's Jurisdiction in the United States Expulsion
1866 C.E Galatz (Romania) Expulsion
1871 C.E. Odena Mob Attack
1887 C.E. Slovakia Mob Attacks
1897 C.E. Kantakuzenka (Russia) Mob Attacks
1898 C.E. Rennes (France) Mob Attack
1899 C.E. Nicholayev Mob Attack
1900 C.E. Konitz (Prussia) Mob Attack
1902 C.E. Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 C.E. Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 C.E Bavaria Expulsion
1915 C.E. Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 C.E. Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 C.E. Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 C.E. Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 C.E. Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 C.E. Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 C.E. Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 C.E. Berlin Mob Attack
1933 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attacks
1938-45 C.E. Europe Holocaust

If they were universally good at making money why would they keep going back? Why not make money where they are?
Maybe they keep going back because there's a lot of money to be made there? :D

Remember, they are credited with the propagation of fractional reserve banking. For centuries, the church in Rome considered this to be sinful. The people of Islamic faith still do I believe. However, there is no other system of finance that is nearly quite so efficient for starting and engaging in warfare as debt based currency. Indeed, once you are a slave to one, eventually it necessitates a war or economic collapse.

Need to fight some wars, bring in the Jews. Wars over? Kick them out, they are a threat to the health of the state. Funny, other than their fixation on the material things in life, they really do seem to be the moral conscious for the western world. Except they could learn a thing or two from Christ about charity I think. :p

Back to the topic though, I found a really interesting answer to the thread question at that sight your data came from. . .


A great many people simply can't cope with the burden of being good. However, when they act in ways that are bad, they can't cope with the resultant feelings of guilt. Try as they may, they can never cut themselves loose from the standards of absolute morality dictated by the Torah. Stuck in this "Catch-22" situation, people turn with their mounting frustrations against the Jews, whom they perceive as personifying humanity's collective conscience.

When the Jews entered the theological arena, they showed people all the mistakes they had been making: Pagan gods are nonsense - there is only one God for all of mankind, Who is invisible, infinite and perfect. Infanticide and human sacrifice are unacceptable. Every human being is born with specific rights. No one can live as he pleases, for everyone must surrender his will to a higher Authority.

On a certain conscious level, people recognize the Jews' message as truth. Those unwilling to embrace the truth have found that the only way to rid themselves of it is to destroy the messengers - for the message itself is too potent to be dismissed.

That is what is so irksome about the Jews, and that is why, for some people, nothing less than total destruction of the Jews will do. If Judaism were just another ideology, people could laugh it off and continue on their merry way. But deep in his soul, every human being recognizes the essential truths of morality - people can't just laugh it off.



This is obviously written by a Jewish man, so he assumes people that act badly always feel guilty. So, this would have to be true for this hypothesis to be correct, yes? Do you think this is true? What about people other than Jews that aren't raised in house holds where guilt is used as a behavioral modifier. If you don't feel guilt for short comings, does that mean you won't be anti-semitic? Is this why people in Asia aren't anti-semitic, because they have no conscious, and they don't feel quilt?

I always thought guilt was Catholic. As an Indian, I'm a fatalist. Concept of guilt is not very endemic to us. Que sera sera. Karma will get you etc

I always thought guilt was Catholic. As an Indian, I'm a fatalist. Concept of guilt is not very endemic to us. Que sera sera. Karma will get you etc

Why do you think there are so many inter-marriages between Jews and Catholics? I'm just guessing here, but outside of other Jews, I'd guess Catholics are the faith most often married by Jews.

I come from an Irish Catholic family, we have several Jews married into the family. . . . er rather, actually, as Catholics find out, Jews never marry into the family, Catholics marry out of the family, especially if they are women. lol

My best friends brother from high school, Catholic boy married a JAP too. :p

Why do you think there are so many inter-marriages between Jews and Catholics? I'm just guessing here, but outside of other Jews, I'd guess Catholics are the faith most often married by Jews.

I come from an Irish Catholic family, we have several Jews married into the family. . . . er rather, actually, as Catholics find out, Jews never marry into the family, Catholics marry out of the family, especially if they are women. lol

My best friends brother from high school, Catholic boy married a JAP too. :p

No idea. More about propinquity than religion I would think