I don't get it. He may have signed an agreement, but as a minor it legally has no meaning. His parents were sending him to this school, knowing its position on dancing (which was the rule I grew up with) and now they want to sue??? I want to smack them!

FINDLAY, Ohio - An Ohio teenager (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30669405/) has been suspended by his Christian school that bans dancing because he attended another high school's prom.

Officials at Heritage Christian School in Findlay had warned 17-year-old Tyler Frost that he would be suspended and prohibited from attending graduation if he went to the public school dance over the weekend with his girlfriend, according to The Courier.

Frost danced and held hands with his girlfriend, Rebecca Smooty, at the Findlay High School prom, attended by about 800 students, officials told the newspaper.

Frost says he didn't think going to the dance was wrong even though his fundamentalist Baptist school Ohio forbids dancing, rock music and hand-holding, a situation reminiscent of that depicted in the 1984 movie, "Footloose."...

...School officials said earlier he could complete his final exams separately to receive a diploma.

I think the suspension was okay. Obviously, I don't condone abusing one's children by sending them to narrow-minded and bigotted "madrasas" like this Baptist institution. But, ultimately, the kid is about to become an adult and much of the responsibility for attending is on him. For whatever reason he bought into and agreed to the rules and policies of the school, so he should be willing to accept the consequences for violating them.

That he still gets to take his finals and receive a diploma is a fair trade-off -though I don't know what good a diploma would be froma backward hole of intelligence that teaches creation and that evolution never happened.

I would hope that any college or institution of higher learning he attempts to attend would require him to at least obtain a GED or a real Diploma.

My mum went to a madrassa. Is there a reason you're using the word for this school?

yes. Because Madrassas are schools. And, in my opinion, ignorant sources of bigotry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa
Madrasah (Arabic: مدرسة‎, madrasa pl. مدارس, madāris) is the Arabic word for any type of school, whether secular or religious

yes. Because Madrassas are schools. And, in my opinion, ignorant sources of bigotry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa
Madrasah (Arabic: مدرسة‎, madrasa pl. مدارس, madāris) is the Arabic word for any type of school, whether secular or religious

Ah so you think a secular or religious school is an ignorant source of bigotry. Your children are homeschooled?

No, I'm using the pejorative against those that are religious. I intended to point out that schools for Christian fundamentalists are every bit as ignorant as schools for Muslim religious nuts. I didn't know the name of Jewish religious nut schools, or Hindu Religious nut schools, so I'm picking on just the Muslims and Christians (but just the nuts that attend madrassas or "madrassas"). I put the term in inverted commas to clue even the daftest among us that I was using it as a trope and not the literal meaning. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I hope this elucidates.

:frust:HEY IF YOU'RE FAIR YOU'D DELETE YOUR COMMENT AND SEND YOURSELF A WARNING:poke:..YOU'RE OPENLY INSULTING THE MAJOROTY OF THE WORLD..MR."mOdeRAtor"..:spank:

The majority of the world consists of religious nuts ?

I actually deleted his post as off-topic, but since Enmos responded, I will as well. The "madrassas" of the world and its major religions truly are a minority and they represent only a minor portion of the religious. Indeed, most religious adherents (be they Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) would not agree with or associate themselves with the particular "madrassa" trope I'm invoking. True enough, the Arabic word simply refers to as a school, but it has in the last decade come to mean much more.

Sorry, but if religious nuts get to cherry pick their definitions and see only those they like for words like "atheist," then I get to do the same for words like "madrassa." For me (and many others) this word refers to a Muslim school of bigotry, ignorance and hatred.

So, while some would cry foul at "openly insulting" the religious, I say poppycock. Being a "majority" (and I'm not conceding that religious nuts are) doesn't, and shouldn't, shield one from criticism, insult or ridicule. If they're wrong they're wrong. If they're ignorant, they're ignorant. If they're bigots (and the school in the OP clearly is a haven of them), then they're bigots.

may god show you the right way..if not..fallah yrayyeh albashariyyah menk..lol..
found a new way to entertain myself here..woot woot..

the school's disicion makes sense..because it simply teaches something..and the student did the opposite of that..i think the school's action is reasonable..

like theists in ths forum

Why should we accept that all theists follow the paradigms of the most conservative among them? My insult and criticism is clearly to conservative/fundamentalist religionists, not the liberal and moderate. Though I'm not opposed to criticizing them either given the right discussion or discourse. The OP, however, is dealing with conservative and fundamentalist cults within Christianity, a distinct minority among the greater Christian superstition.


that is why they delete the comments showing how

If they're wrong they're wrong. If they're ignorant, they're ignorant. If they're bigots, then they're bigots. and there's nothing you can do about itYou're confusing the rules of this forum with freedom of speech. You have a recourse for the former and no guarantee for the latter at Sciforums. Please take a moment to visit the sticky thread at the top of the forums list.

you're confusing all that with your personal agenda.. and it's amzing how you can talk alot without saying as much..look man..ADMIT IT..you don't like what i'm saying..and that affects your judgment..

I'm saying please stay on the topic of fundamentalist/conservative schools and whether or not suspending the teen in the OP was appropriate. Feel free to create a new thread on the appropriateness of criticizing, questioning, insulting, or ridiculing religions and their more conservative members if you like, but further off-topic posts here may be deleted.

Here's a thought: Don't go to the friggin' school! It has it's rules. It's a private institution. What's the big deal? If the kid wanted so badly to act in a way that wasn't in line with this ridiculous cult, then DON'T JOIN IT.

Problem solved.

~String

I went to a school like that and even though their rules are stupid (most are) if you attend you have to abide by them. The school officials aren't even entirely sure why they don't believe in doing stuff. That was a poor call on his part (while the punishment seems a bit over the top). We all make our choices in life and he ruined his chance for a graduation ceremony, since he was warned beforehand.

Here's a thought: Don't go to the friggin' school! It has it's rules. It's a private institution. What's the big deal? If the kid wanted so badly to act in a way that wasn't in line with this ridiculous cult, then DON'T JOIN IT.

Problem solved.

~String

I doubt that was a choice he was allowed to make. I went to whatever high school my parents said I had to go too.

And yet some propose fixing the public education system by using tax money to send kids to schools like this.

No, I'm using the pejorative against those that are religious. I intended to point out that schools for Christian fundamentalists are every bit as ignorant as schools for Muslim religious nuts. I didn't know the name of Jewish religious nut schools, or Hindu Religious nut schools, so I'm picking on just the Muslims and Christians (but just the nuts that attend madrassas or "madrassas"). I put the term in inverted commas to clue even the daftest among us that I was using it as a trope and not the literal meaning. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I hope this elucidates.

And by using the Arabic word for schools bothsecular or religious, you're indicating how you're better in your absence of both ignorance and bigotry.

Well done, we need more representatives of atheism like you so we can see exactly what it means when atheist claim their secularism and lack of ignorance or bigotry. Feel free to misuse more Arabic words and show us exactly how you think

Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England (http://news.aol.com/article/baptist-school-prom/472206?icid=main|aimzones|dl1|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fn ews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fbaptist-school-prom%2F472206) said.
The teen, who is scheduled to receive his diploma May 24, would be suspended from classes and receive an "incomplete" on remaining assignments, England said. Frost also would not be permitted to attend graduation but would get a diploma once he completes final exams. If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said....

..."In life, we constantly make decisions whether we are going to please self or please God. (Frost) chose one path, and the school committee chose the other," England said.

The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."....

I think its important that he be on the receiving end of their hatred and bigotry. Perhaps it will help him break free.

I hope it opens the eyes of his parents and others sending their kids there as well.

I hope it opens the eyes of his parents and others sending their kids there as well.

I doubt that. What's eye opening about a rebellious teenager?

Frost says he didn't think going to the dance was wrong

...and the LA priest didn't think that fucking a lady was wrong either. Nevertheless Catholicism is not about democracy...

If you want choices, be a Protestant...

...and the LA priest didn't think that fucking a lady was wrong either. Nevertheless Catholicism is not about democracy...

If you want choices, be a Protestant...


??? this is not a catholic school. Its baptist, which I think is protestant.

Kudos to the kid.

Just so I could get married I had to sign a piece of paper from the Catholic church that said I promised to raise our kids as Catholics. As far as I was concerned that piece of paper had more value as asswipe. I don't think anyone can legally make you follow a religious line when freedom of religion exists as a fundamental right. I signed it knowing full well it was a worthless document.

Well and they lied to you.

Its only if you want to get married by a Catholic priest that you "have" to sign their doc. They will recognize other marriage ceremonies as binding with or without the doc.

But if you get a divorce its easier for your ex to get an annulment so they can officially remarry in the church if you signed and then don't raise them as catholic.

??? this is not a catholic school. Its baptist, which I think is protestant.

Calvary Baptist Church.

Catholics usually like dancing, moderate drinking and "hand holding."

And by using the Arabic word for schools bothsecular or religious, you're indicating how you're better in your absence of both ignorance and bigotry.

Well done, we need more representatives of atheism like you so we can see exactly what it means when atheist claim their secularism and lack of ignorance or bigotry. Feel free to misuse more Arabic words and show us exactly how you think

pretty sure most people understood the point he was making when he called them a madrasa. the dictionary reference he provided was misleading though.

thats very true, catholics (at least in australia) tend to be very liberal even if the ranks above priest (in general) are so conservitive they sre still debating the ethics of fire and the wheel

Lucky fot those whose prom was very wonderful. Unlike Tyler Frost who has been busy making headlines as a high school senior. The young Tyler Frost has gotten himself into national headlines for being suspended and then suing his high school. Heritage Christian, the private school he attends, had forbid him from attending his girlfriend's prom – she attends public school – and he went anyway. The school makes all students sign a contract, like they were getting personal loans, in which they must swear not to dance, hold hands, listen to rock 'n' roll, or enjoy themselves. Tyler Frost says he has no regrets, and since the dance took place on the weekend, the school has credit repair to do for suspending him.

Lucky fot those whose prom was very wonderful. Unlike Tyler Frost who has been busy making headlines as a high school senior. The young Tyler Frost has gotten himself into national headlines for being suspended and then suing his high school. Heritage Christian, the private school he attends, had forbid him from attending his girlfriend's prom – she attends public school – and he went anyway. The school makes all students sign a contract, like they were getting personal loans, in which they must swear not to dance, hold hands, listen to rock 'n' roll, or enjoy themselves. Tyler Frost says he has no regrets, and since the dance took place on the weekend, the school has credit repair to do for suspending him.

Hi Arabella, welcome to SciForums ! :)
It is common practice here to credit your sources if you quote something.

http://www.feedie7cng.bloggingbaby.com/2009/05/06/prom-jenny-mccarthy-and-scary-happy-meals-links-we-love/

Well and they lied to you.

Its only if you want to get married by a Catholic priest that you "have" to sign their doc. They will recognize other marriage ceremonies as binding with or without the doc.

I couldn't have cared less who married us. I don't recall asking for a catholic priest. I only got married in a Catholic church to please the in-laws. The whole religious aspect didn't mean anything to me but it did to them so I went along. To this day I see the whole marriage thing as ceremony, a glimpse of the past, a compilation of rites and superstitions, nothing to get upset about.

Let the kid dance for Christ's sakes. The Pope is out there making Catholicism a laughing stock and some kid with raging hormones wants to dance with his favorite girl. What in the fuck is wrong with that?

Kudos to the kid.

Just so I could get married I had to sign a piece of paper from the Catholic church that said I promised to raise our kids as Catholics. As far as I was concerned that piece of paper had more value as asswipe.

If you didn't value Catholic ethics, why get married in a Catholic ceremony? You've already admitted to yourself it's empty rhetoric.

Frost says he didn't think going to the dance was wrong even though his fundamentalist Baptist school Ohio forbids dancing,

The School forbids dancing, but where does this jurisdiction end? It extends onto other school's property, does it? Binds individuals in their own time, when not on school property?

How did they discover he danced? Is snooping ethical? Does God love a snitch?

Frost says he didn't think going to the dance was wrong even though his fundamentalist Baptist school Ohio forbids dancing, rock music and hand-holding, a situation reminiscent of that depicted in the 1984 movie, "Footloose."...


Goddamn.

When will you people move into the fucking 21st century and stop living like puritans ?..
I thought the US was meant to be the bastion of humanity ?.. And if that's what it's made of.. Screw humanity..

Of course, I'm making gross generalisations, but really. We get one of these every few weeks, from the last chemo kid and now this..
The last time I heard of something like this happening in Australia was when Bells gave me that link to the Christian blog.. and that was an individual.

??? this is not a catholic school. Its baptist, which I think is protestant.

Same logic and advice still apply. If he wants choices, be an atheist. :)

There are atheist schools?

There are atheist schools?

There are non-religious schools..

Built by atheists?

Built by atheists?

Probably at least some were atheists, yea. Why ?

Just wondering who was giving "choices" to these atheists. I've never seen a school built by an atheist. But its not all that common in India.

Just wondering who was giving "choices" to these atheists.
Eh ? Reality ? What gives "choices" to you ?


I've never seen a school built by an atheist.
How do you know ?


But its not all that common in India.
Building schools you mean ?

Atheists building schools.

They are known more for stuff like this:


An atheist group is planning to recruit school kids to teach them how to damage religious activity in schools.

Children will be encouraged to undermine the role of Christian assemblies and the way RE is taught. They will also be trained to lobby local authorities about these issues.

The National Federation of Atheist, Humanist and Secular Student Societies (AHS) will launch the recruitment drive in the summer. It will coincide with an atheist summer camp for kids.

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/20090427/group-targets-school-kids-in-atheism-drive/



Backed by professors Richard Dawkins and AC Grayling, the initiative aims to establish a network of atheist societies in schools to counter the role of Christianity.

It will coincide with the first atheist summer camp for children that will teach that religious belief and doctrines can prevent ethical and moral behaviour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5219687/Atheists-target-UK-schools.html

Marvelous, eh?

Atheists building schools.

They are known more for stuff like this:

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/20090427/group-targets-school-kids-in-atheism-drive/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5219687/Atheists-target-UK-schools.html

Marvelous, eh?

Was that necessary ? You really are hateful..
Perhaps I should provide some examples of what religion is known for ?

Why would atheists be unable to build schools ?

Was that necessary ? You really are hateful..
Perhaps I should provide some examples of what religion is known for ?

Why would atheists be unable to build schools ?

I'm hateful?:rolleyes:

Another one:



Lanz said the group would be a place for “outcasts” to gather.

“A lot of my teachers express conservative beliefs,” Lanz said. “You can get the vibe it’s a conservative school and a conservative town.”

Group members already are planning their first event, a night when members dress up as pirates and eat spaghetti in honor of the “Flying Spaghetti Monster.”

“It’s a philosophy mimicking God, that, ‘If you guys can believe in your God, I can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster,’ ” Lanz said. “It’s just a silly thing that was contradicting normal Christian beliefs.”

http://www.secularstudents.org/node/2409

:shrug:
See if you like arguing with yourself.

i do..it's the truest argument one can have...unbiased..very essential to find the truth of anything..

I sincerely hope that was a joke.

I like arguing with myself. I usually lose. <- That was a bad joke.

Built by atheists?

Yes there are schools built by atheists, I went to one. It was attended by a large number of Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Mormons. But unless you're a wacko a school built by an atheist is just like any other school built by anyone else. It is just without any religion classes or religious undertone to what it teaches. That's the way schools should be anyway.

Who was the atheist who built it?

How do you know he/she was atheist?

The origin of the school is religion, so while I can see schools accomodating different beliefs, having a school without religion being taught seems contradictory to the premise.

Who was the atheist who built it?

How do you know he/she was atheist?

The origin of the school is religion, so while I can see schools accomodating different beliefs, having a school without religion being taught seems contradictory to the premise.

My (1st) high school principal. The school was his idea, he got the funding and had the school built.

He was very open about his beliefs.

If school started as a way to teach religion then I believed we have moved far from that premise. Even religious schools don't exclusively teach religion.

My (1st) high school principal. The school was his idea, he got the funding and had the school built.

He was very open about his beliefs.

If school started as a way to teach religion then I believed we have moved far from that premise..

So as an atheist, he did not teach any religion in his school.

I'm surprised that anyone sent their children there.


Even religious schools don't exclusively teach religion

Religious schools have never exclusively taught religion that I know of. Although I have seen that the literacy of a place is directly related to religious education available.

So as an atheist, he did not teach any religion in his school.

I'm surprised that anyone sent their children there.



Religious schools have never exclusively taught religion that I know of. Although I have seen that the literacy of a place is directly related to religious education available.

I don't know what you're getting at. As an atheist, he was just a guy with a good idea for a school. I don't know what public school has a religion class. And how could you teach religion when everyone comes from different religious backgrounds? We went to school to learn our ABCs and 123s, if religion was really important which is was to many of my classmates they went to church, youth group, and Sunday school. And literacy is probably related to religious schools because they are small. Even my school kicked all of the religious schools butts on stuff like that. Small schools out score huge schools on everything, except sports.

And how could you teach religion when everyone comes from different religious backgrounds?

I did. I went to a secular school run by a Christian woman and we learned about all the religions.


Small schools out score huge schools on everything, except sports.

Agreed.

I'm still surprised that anyone sent their children to a school run by an atheist.

So as an atheist, he did not teach any religion in his school.

I'm surprised that anyone sent their children there.
No public school in the US teaches religion (although they might teach about different religions in a historical/social studies context). So the fact that they didn't teach religion at this school wouldn't be an issue for most people.

No public school in the US teaches religion (although they might teach about different religions in a historical/social studies context). So the fact that they didn't teach religion at this school wouldn't be an issue for most people.

Ah I see. That makes it more understandable. It also explains why atheists now have churches (http://firstchurchofatheism.com/), summer camps (http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2008/05/atheist-summer-camp.html) and Sunday schools (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html).

Hi Arabella, welcome to SciForums ! :)
It is common practice here to credit your sources if you quote something.

http://www.feedie7cng.bloggingbaby.com/2009/05/06/prom-jenny-mccarthy-and-scary-happy-meals-links-we-love/
I've seen that happening a lot lately on various forums; someone with a low post count posts a paragraph or two that is on topic, but doesn't really fit with the conversation that's going on, and that turns out to be copied and pasted from somewhere else. I suspect it's some sort of automated system that's trying to "gain credibility" on various forums by automatically generating posts, so that later it can tell us all about how great some new product is, why we should all sell a certain stock, etc.

Ah I see. That makes it more understandable. It also explains why atheists now have churches (http://firstchurchofatheism.com/), summer camps (http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2008/05/atheist-summer-camp.html) and Sunday schools (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html).
Yes, atheists at public schools in the US aren't allowed to teach people that there is no god, just like theists at public schools aren't allowed to teach people that there is a god. So if you want to teach people about religion from either side of the issue, you have to do it in some non-school setting.

I don't get it. He may have signed an agreement, but as a minor it legally has no meaning.
Generally minors can sign contracts and enforce them against adults, but the minor has the option to void the contract at any time.

But most likely what he signed wasn't any sort of real contract, but rather some sort of "I understand that I can be suspended or expelled if I do any of the following..." statement. Such a document isn't really intended as a contract that the school will legally enforce against the student, it's just protection for the school against the student attempting to sue for them enforcing their own rules (which appears to be what's happening in this case). The school just wants the document so that when they go to court they can say "Look, he knew what he was getting into. As proof, we have this document that he signed saying he understood the rules and consequences. Our behavior was therefor not arbitrary or capricious."

Of course, they might present it as a "contract" to the students as a tool for guilting them into obeying the rules.

I've seen that happening a lot lately on various forums; someone with a low post count posts a paragraph or two that is on topic, but doesn't really fit with the conversation that's going on, and that turns out to be copied and pasted from somewhere else. I suspect it's some sort of automated system that's trying to "gain credibility" on various forums by automatically generating posts, so that later it can tell us all about how great some new product is, why we should all sell a certain stock, etc.

You could be on to something. I already wondered why she only posted just the one time.

I'm still surprised that anyone sent their children to a school run by an atheist.

Wtf ? lol
Why !?

Wtf ? lol
Why !?

For mental health reasons. eg the girl who started the anti-religion group disguised as a philosophy group (http://www.secularstudents.org/node/2409) has become suicidal and depressive and left school.

The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."....

Yes it does that is why Vietnam got stopped and a lot of racist practices.
All due to drug taking rock music listening kids who saw some things wrong and banded together to change them.

If this is their excuse for not allowing rock music then I would have to say they most likely are racist and warmongering.

For mental health reasons. eg the girl who started the anti-religion group disguised as a philosophy group (http://www.secularstudents.org/node/2409) has become suicidal and depressive and left school.

LMAO. Because only atheists get depressed. You say the silliest things sometimes. I really don't see how my high school principal who we rarely saw (and left 5 years after starting the school to go start another) and his faculty that he hired from all religious backgrounds would give us all mental health problems. His second school is also flourishing with inner city kids outscoring their suburban peers. But I'm sure they'll all dropout from being depressed by the atheist principle they never see :rolleyes: Silly silly silly

Yes it does that is why Vietnam got stopped and a lot of racist practices.
All due to drug taking rock music listening kids who saw some things wrong and banded together to change them.

If this is their excuse for not allowing rock music then I would have to say they most likely are racist and warmongering.

you are making quite the leap there.

LMAO. Because only atheists get depressed. You say the silliest things sometimes. I really don't see how my high school principal who we rarely saw (and left 5 years after starting the school to go start another) and his faculty that he hired from all religious backgrounds would give us all mental health problems. His second school is also flourishing with inner city kids outscoring their suburban peers. But I'm sure they'll all dropout from being depressed by the atheist principle they never see :rolleyes: Silly silly silly

I was under the impression that he was running an atheist school. Nasor cleared it up for me.

Atheists building schools.

They are known more for stuff like this:



http://www.christian.org.uk/news/20090427/group-targets-school-kids-in-atheism-drive/




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5219687/Atheists-target-UK-schools.html

Marvelous, eh?

I'm angry that you tar ALL atheists with the same brush. The word atheist just means someone who doesn't believe in a God. It does not mean a militant who wants to stamp out faith in everyone else. Don't attack me along with those militants. (I'm an atheist). I'm actually pretty disgusted with this assumption that only people who believe in a God are peaceful and tolerant.

I'm angry that you tar ALL atheists with the same brush. The word atheist just means someone who doesn't believe in a God. It does not mean a militant who wants to stamp out faith in everyone else. Don't attack me along with those militants. (I'm an atheist). I'm actually pretty disgusted with this assumption that only people who believe in a God are peaceful and tolerant.

Take a number, I feel the same way when I'm classed with the "religious nutjobs" :p

But I agree, not all atheists want to stamp out religion, the ones who do just seem to get more media coverage and hence seem to be louder and more visible. But as CutsieMarie just showed, there are atheists out there who build schools and hire religious teachers and don't impose their beliefs on other people.

Fair enough, then. I guess I misunderstood..

Sometimes I like other people to make my point. You have to take me on faith. :p

sam the greatest number of schools in ausgralia are Areligious (not anti religion) there is no talk either way about religion except how it effects whatever is being taught (for instance how pts religion may effect treatment if the subject is health). state schools have a responcability to treach maths, english, science ect not religion. thats up to the person themself and church ect or not depending on the person because its not essential study the way maths, science, english, sexual health, PE ect are

It seems strange that the schools would omit something like religion as not essential study. Its the first thing archeologists study when they want to understand a people from the past.

of course they wont teach religion, for stsrters which religion should they teach? all of them? you would have no time to teach anything else. if you were to pick and chose then the goverment would be in trouble for favoring one over another. state schools (which the majority of students attend) are not selected by the parents in most states, unless there is a specific reason the students are divided by geography alone (ie if your in the catchment area for ringwood high you get first dibs on the place at that school). as funding and standeds should be the same across the state system this isnt an issue.

and what if the child is being raised athist? you think thiests have more right than the athist kids?

We had a course that gave an introduction to each religion from class one to ten, it was a class where religious stories were used to teach ethics.

I imagine even atheists would want their children to learn about ethics.

ethics dont need to be religious. lots of religious "ethic" (gay rights, rights of women, rights of the child ect) breach the international convention on the rights of the child and the convention on civil and political rights not to mention certain australian laws most oviously antidiscrimation laws. i would MUCH rather schools teach these than phelips views

you are making quite the leap there.
No leap at all
Read the book "steal this book"

ethics dont need to be religious. lots of religious "ethic" (gay rights, rights of women, rights of the child ect) breach the international convention on the rights of the child and the convention on civil and political rights not to mention certain australian laws most oviously antidiscrimation laws. i would MUCH rather schools teach these than phelips views

I don't think sexuality is covered in ethics. Nor do I know religious stories which undermine womens or childrens rights. Are there any particular ones you have in mind?

gay marrage and treatment: the bible stories that gays should be put to death

women as property: the story about the tribe killed because some guys sister slept with one of them

pedophilia and mohumids 8 year old wife

solomon and garmora where it was better for a man to give his daughters up to be RAPED rather than let 2 men paticipate in gay sex

slavery, palistinian rights, ect ect. the list goes on and on.

You had these stories in school?

no, i went to a state school. i was taught things i needed like sexual health, english, maths, politics, the law and ethics, SOSE, IT, science, road saftey, first aid ect. the things which make a difference in this life, not speculation on what might or might not come next

what is SOSE?

no, i went to a state school. i was taught things i needed like sexual health, english, maths, politics, the law and ethics, SOSE, IT, science, road saftey, first aid ect. the things which make a difference in this life, not speculation on what might or might not come next

Well I had ten years of ethics classes and I was never taught anything about gays or pedophilia through religious stories.

I do think ethics is an important subject and I think dropping religion classes in school undermines training in ethics in young children.

you saying im an unethical person?

im a strong surporter of human rights and am studying health so i can help the community because i got sick of the self centered nature of the private sector. will also point out the universal health care, unemployment ect surports in australia where the majorty attend secular schools compared to india where people are left to stave on the streets

john its the study of sociaty and enviroment. ie history, sociology, eviromental science ect

People are not "left to starve" on the streets. Most of them are poor. We didn't have a colonial enterprise as a basis for our wealth. :(

I'm not saying you're an unethical person, I just find it odd that such an important social aspect would be missing from education.

of corse the poor are unimportant, really ethical.

ethics are important and certainly arent neglected, religion is and is ghere for not in the curriculam.

BTW, im sure there are lots of religion classes in israil so it MUST (by your definition) be a very ethical country right?

Not sure if there are religious courses in Israel, but since the Jews who are against Zionism tend to be the ones who actually study the Torah, I would say thats a rather silly argument.

Nevertheless, the ability of children to have concepts of right and wrong, to think critically about moral decisions and recognise the right one requires a moral framework.

We had a course that gave an introduction to each religion from class one to ten, it was a class where religious stories were used to teach ethics.

I imagine even atheists would want their children to learn about ethics.

Most such schools do teach about religion in a neutral way.

For mental health reasons.

Oh, so I can't hold it against you because you said because of mental health reasons ? :D

Fair enough, then. I guess I misunderstood..
What do you mean fair enough ?


Take a number, I feel the same way when I'm classed with the "religious nutjobs" :p

But I agree, not all atheists want to stamp out religion, the ones who do just seem to get more media coverage and hence seem to be louder and more visible. But as CutsieMarie just showed, there are atheists out there who build schools and hire religious teachers and don't impose their beliefs on other people.

Then quit smearing all atheists.. you come off as a hypocrite.

Well I had ten years of ethics classes and I was never taught anything about gays or pedophilia through religious stories.

I do think ethics is an important subject and I think dropping religion classes in school undermines training in ethics in young children.

Your ethic classes didn't do you much good anyway.. :rolleyes:

I just find it odd that such an important social aspect would be missing from education.
And I find it odd that you think it's missing. Religion is not the sole source of ethics.

Nevertheless, the ability of children to have concepts of right and wrong, to think critically about moral decisions and recognise the right one requires a moral framework.

Which is something your parents provide, religious or not. Now quit acting stupid.

I personally think that religion as a historical study should be taught in schools so that children can learn what not to do, how not to hate, how to not be ignorant... maybe learning from all the bloodshed, the caste systems, the rampant corruption, the blame and guilt game, the secretive abuse, the egotism and the self-righteousness brought about by religion has undermined and destroyed man throughout written history. How simple words in a few books caused widespread bigotry and wars... They should learn from those mistakes, yes.

How attaching oneself to a God or Gods will only bring great suffering and no reward, nothing but empty promises made by ignorant men.