What are your thoughts on the death penalty? Should we have it? Should we outlaw it? In what cases should we have it? Any thoughts?

-Mike

The death penalty is a valid sentence for pre-meditated murder. Two reasons:
1. Remove the threat of this person killing someone else.
2. Possibly deter other murders from occuring.

Some would argue that the death penalty is murder so we would in fact only repeating the crime. However, the death penalty isn't murder..it is society's self-defense. If someone walks up to a person and punches them, then gets punched in return...you do not have two cases of assault.

There is also the argument that reason #2 above is not valid because statics show the death penalty does not affect murder rates. I have not researched this but would still contend that reason #1 is valid for a pro-death penalty stance.

Then there is of course the argument of why not just give them a life sentence? Well, why not the death penalty? A prisoner serving a life sentence is not contributing to society but simply rotting in a cell. This costs money, contributes to prison overcrowding, etc.

Seriously, I have one major thought of mine on this. Truthfully I feel a life sentence is more of a punishment than the death penalty. You could either take away the life of this criminal as he did to your loved one, or make that life hell. But anyway I feel there are no real problematic moral implications of putting a murder to death. I do however think putting a just man to death for a crime he didn't commit is a horrible act. So really I feel keeping the death penalty is allright but give the prisoners a lot of chances for appeal.

Thats true Asguard, there ARE 18 pages or so of arguements, but there is alot of new members here, and it would suck if they would have to read through all that. When I was knew, I wouldnt go near a thread, if it had more then a few pages. Well you all know my thoughts on the subject.:D

The only BAD issue I see with the death penalty, is the innocent people that die as a result. But with advancements in DNA testing, hopefully the number will go down. And I agree Captain, it is NOT murder. It is not unlawful. It is a form of retribution.

mur·der Pronunciation Key (mūrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Take care:)

spose thats true, i wouldn't want to wade through all that either

ok i will post my view

the DP is wrong

its wrong because its so final
its wrong because it costs more than life inprissionment (because of all the apeals to make sure the person really IS the one)
its wrong because its un-nessersary (they can't hurt anyone once in prison)
its wrong because it is retribution (which makes us no better than the crimals themselves)

i sugest people read THIS (http://www.acadp.com/) Site

Anyone who is against the death penalty for fear that 'an innocent person'
may be executed and is not screaming for drunken drivers who have killed
be put away for life is a freeking hypocrite.

Take care :rolleyes:

Originally posted by fadingCaptain
The death penalty is a valid sentence for pre-meditated murder. Two reasons:
1. Remove the threat of this person killing someone else.
2. Possibly deter other murders from occuring.

Some would argue that the death penalty is murder so we would in fact only repeating the crime. However, the death penalty isn't murder..it is society's self-defense. If someone walks up to a person and punches them, then gets punched in return...you do not have two cases of assault.

There is also the argument that reason #2 above is not valid because statics show the death penalty does not affect murder rates. I have not researched this but would still contend that reason #1 is valid for a pro-death penalty stance.

Then there is of course the argument of why not just give them a life sentence? Well, why not the death penalty? A prisoner serving a life sentence is not contributing to society but simply rotting in a cell. This costs money, contributes to prison overcrowding, etc.

I agree with your post although right now I am leaning toward a moritorium to insure that no innocent people are on death row. I think in the age of DNA and forensics, it's easier to prove without doubt that someone did murder.

By the way "Fading Captain" are you also a fan of the musical group Guided By Voices?

-Mike

its wrong because its so final
its wrong because it costs more than life inprissionment (because of all the apeals to make sure the person really IS the one)
its wrong because its un-nessersary (they can't hurt anyone once in prison)
its wrong because it is retribution (which makes us no better than the crimals themselves)


1) When you subject yourself to that type of behavior, to where your to the point of... cruising the streets looking for small children to kidnap and eventually kill... orrrr.... your brutally murdering a person and dismemebering the body... orrrr.... staking out women to rape and murder... well maybe... finality is the only option that you should be afforded. Makes sense to me.
2) I still have not found proof of this.
3) They can still hurt while they are in prison. Ever think of the famalies of children that were murdered, knowing that the person responsible is still alive and breathing. What if they get out one day? Most of em do. What if they do it again? Most of em do. What if they escape? Okay, this is a small percentage, but it CAN happen.
4) Just because it is retribution, you cannot say it makes us no different then the animals. I know if you stole 5 dollars from me, you better know that I will expect that 5 dollars back. If someone takes a loved ones life, I will expect that life given back. And like I said before... you would think alot differently if someone you loved was brutally murdered.

Final thought: If a person shows absolutely no regard to human life, they should not expect the same in return. And it pisses me off that some people actually go out and protest for these causes. Actually fight for the people that are doing these heinous acts. But can I ask this? Who is fighting for the victims? Who is fighting for their rights? Oh yeah I forgot, were all too busy fighting for the people that are committing these acts. Makes sense...

Take care:rolleyes:

i would LOVE us to be able to treat crimals as insane.
i hope we eventully find a cure for it.

You and i agree that some people are born evil, so there is no difference between them and someone who has any other mental illness. Thats what i belive anyway

I can't see anyother reason why someone would comit crimes like that. Oh i can understand someone getting angry and picking up something and hitting someone else with it. I can understand crimes of passion or desperation, its the others like we were talking about or those you mentioned that i just can't see a possable way that any sane person would comit them

My opinion on Death Penalty is quite simlpe. A few people close to myself have experienced prison. Obviously, I'm not about to say any names but one person I know served two years for financial reasons. Within 2 weeks (I kid you not) he had a broken arm and leg.

Another person I've worked with spent about a year for robbery. One of the new guys at work had the indecensy to crack what he considered a joke in saying 'so, did you like get raped?' My workmate looked at him with such a mix of disgust and horrible nostalgia and just said 'thats not funny'.


A lifetime in prison is far worse a sentance than death. People like you describe Star do not deserve the easy way out. Which is exactly what death is.

You and i agree that some people are born evil, so there is no difference between them and someone who has any other mental illness.

I beg to differ. A person who is mentally insane, does not know the difference from right and wrong. A person that was born "bad or evil" DOES know what they are doing is Wrong. If they didnt know it was wrong, 92% ( I think that is the correct percentage), wouldn't lie when first asked if they committed the crime. Why would you lie if you did not know it was wrong? Also if you were mentally ill/insane, you could not possilble plan and implement details related to most gruesome/brutal murders that take place.

To further Star's latest point.......

All humans are born with certain traits and all humans have traits shaped over the course of their young childhood. However, it is the mark of a human being to be able to deny those traits because we know that hurting another human being is wrong.

A mentally insane person would never claim innocence because a truely insane person would not recognize what they did was wrong.

A lifetime in prison is far worse a sentance than death. People like you describe Star do not deserve the easy way out. Which is exactly what death is.

Uhhhh... maybe it is hard at first. I know it sucks to get "booty busted" - trust me - I know a huge amount of people that have done "HARD TIME". The point is: Yeah, it sucks... but you survive. You get a second chance. The person you killed.... doesnt! Get it? And after a consirable amount of time - you earn your respect. You get to "get respected". You feel important. And no hard-timer (more than 15+ years), is stuggling in the pen. Trust me on this one. After so long, people look up to you in there. You think that these types should be held in prison for role models? You think that they should get the opportunity to feel "respected"? You think that they should have the opportunity to even crack a smile?

Because really, what purpose are they serving, if not the one I explained above?:rolleyes:

I don't agree with the current state of the death penalty system. I feel the death penalty is just a little too lenient. Did ya know that the peices of shit on death row die a pleasurable death? They go to sleep & have nice dreams while they pass away. How freakin nice. Ya think the victim's got a nice pleasant death or rape or whatever?

In my opinion they should do away with all the appeals, leave one appeal open. Forget the little injection. Bring back public executions. A kid who is thinking of committing a crime will see how unpleasant death really is. The body expels all fluids & fecal matter. This is not pleasant. The respect, from his friends, will not exist when they see him shitting all over himself. The death penalty, in it's current state, scares no criminals, if it did we would have no crime at all whatsoever.

tell me exactly how many murders its going to stop?

they are mostly CRIMES OF PASSION, ie i get into an argument and pick up a knife or a rolling pin

deterants will NEVER stop crimes of passion

not ever

not a single ONE

Mike,

I agree with your post although right now I am leaning toward a moritorium to insure that no innocent people are on death row. I think in the age of DNA and forensics, it's easier to prove without doubt that someone did murder.
So you think everyone on death row should undergo DNA testing and analysis to make sure they are guilty? That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. However, sometimes there is no DNA evidence...

By the way "Fading Captain" are you also a fan of the musical group Guided By Voices?
GBV! GBV! " I am a scientist I seek to understand me..."

Originally posted by Asguard
tell me exactly how many murders its going to stop?


they are mostly CRIMES OF PASSION, ie i get into an argument and pick up a knife or a rolling pin

deterants will NEVER stop crimes of passion

not ever

not a single ONE


It will stop exactly 1,345 murders, no more, no less.:bugeye:

Can you prove that most murder's are crimes of passion?
NO you can,t. Just as I cannot give an exact number of murders, deterents will prevent.

Can you also prove, that not a single ONE, will be prevented. No, again, you cannot. Noone can say, for sure, what or how a deterent will affect the performance of a crime.

When did this post consider nothing more than crimes of passion. I thought we were talking premeditated murder. Anyway if a person cannot control himself, in a fit of passion, they need to be taken out.

Anyway, anyone gets into an argument, with me, they better get a big enough knife or rolling pin to do me in, and they need to be able to avoid the "Tie Dyed Anvil".

Hm. Beats me. The thing about the death penalty is...that is the only thing that will possibly comfort the victim's family (in case of murder crimes...you should see their agony). But, if there has been a mistake and the executed guy is innocent...well then. You can't bring it back.

No position for now.

what if thats not what the victom's family want?

there was a REALLY bad masicur in Tasmaina a few years ago

3 of the victoms were a mans wife and his 2 daughters

his wife was shot then the man went and hunted down the 2 girls and shot them

the guy who did it got life without the possablity of parole

the man prasid the court after the sentacing, he didn't go on about how he will never be able to move on while the guy is alive. I think he actully said he forgave the guy (but im not sure, it was a while ago). This man lost his wife and little girls yet he could forgive there murder and he wasn't blood thursty

i admire this guy for his courage

well, then. Then it's all that guy's compassion. But how you would "forgive someone who just murdered someone close to you is something I will never see. Maybe I gotta meditate on it...I'll post again when I've deeply contemplated this.

And now your tax dollars are hard at work supporting this killer.
All the while there are starving people, on the streets.

A person who has forgiven someone that killed a loved one, would have to be a truly rightous person. That or he has a huge amount of faith in his religion and therefore feels that he must forgive. I am neither so I couldnt do it. I try my hardest to forgive others who have hurt me. For I know that there must be some real hatred or agony going on inside the person to drive him to do very bad things. But Im a firm believer, that regardless of what is going on inside you there are certain things that you just simply cant do, and if you do, you have to pay.

Does anyone that opposes the death penalty have any reasons on why it would be good to abolish it? I mean what would be the benifits to keeping a person sitting in a cell for 60 years? For society, what benefit does this serve?

Take care:)

respect for life, maybe?
(or, if you will: respect for God's creation)

Don't worry *StrGirl*, I am not going to insult you again. :) even though you've got it all wring. hahaha.


also: hahaha murder is unlawful killing? so, if I were to change the law to state that any jew does not have the right to live, killing jews is no longer murdering them????
Get real.

There is no such thing as penalty as a deterrant: in fact penalties tell eople it's okay to retribute. Hence the higher murder rates in places with capital punishment.

Of course, serious offenders must be taken off the streets. Do they prefer death over life imprisonment, so be it. Then euthenasea it is!

... aah I have to stop now. I am starting to get angry again.

There are always exceptions...there are some deranged killers out there, who are not insane but twisted nonetheless...you talk because you've not been affected. But how would you feel if someone came in and raped and stabbed and killed your mother, wife, etc? Would you forgive him with the faith of your god?

merlign,

hahaha murder is unlawful killing?
Umm...yes! That is the defination of murder smart guy: unlawful killing.

There is no such thing as penalty as a deterrant: in fact penalties tell eople it's okay to retribute. Hence the higher murder rates in places with capital punishment.
Of course, you have evidence to back up this claim?? Or maybe you are just spewing nonsense to make your argument seem more credible..

respect for life, maybe?
You could have just said this and I would have repected your position, but instead you go on with dumb examples and empty claims.

well, look up the earlier thread on the same subject. I have no intention to rewrite it all again.

certainly not if one realises that everybody sticks to their original position. It's quite useless on a forum. *stRgrl* and I even hated eachother for a while because of this subject.
It does more harm than good.

Merlign,
Fair enough :)

Did ANYONE actully read that site i posted?

You mean the ::how jedi are you::?
-yes sure I read it. I'm Dooku ;) :D

or do you mean http://www.acadp.com ?

:p

the http://www.acadp.com one

Sorry Asguard, I can't make it to that site...firewall :(

If i remember & have time I'll check it out at home...

I for one are in favour of the death penalty. I wish we still had it in Canada. If someone is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that someone murdered someone else, then they deserve to die too. A bullet to the head, hey i'll supply the bullet. These jerks do not deserve to live and be fed in prison for the rest of their lives. They ought to be dead just like their victim(s).

really?

so there is no such thing as exstuation circmstances?

ok then kill me because if i could get my hands on 3 people i would kill them in cold blood

torcher them for as many months as i could in fact

then give myself up to the cops but i would still do it first

i was thinking about flaying to finish it

do you know WHY i would do this to these 3 inderviduals?

and does that even matter?

edit to add: i can GARENTIE they deserve it tho i wont and can't tell you why they do

Originally posted by Asguard
really?


ok then kill me because if i could get my hands on 3 people i would kill them in cold blood

torcher them for as many months as i could in fact

then give myself up to the cops but i would still do it first

i was thinking about flaying to finish it

do you know WHY i would do this to these 3 inderviduals?

and does that even matter?

edit to add: i can GARENTIE they deserve it tho i wont and can't tell you why they do

Asguard, I understand Brutha!
Sometimes, some people just need KILLIN'!

"some people should die...that's just unconcious knowledge."

-Jane's Addiction "Pigs in Zen"