It is the Canvas I use To Lay Arts-Foundation.

It is the colour I use to Paint pictures of the Winds-Vibration.

What Eyes do you Posess?,

Ones that don't Only see the Flesh.

What Ears do you posess?,

Ones that Translate the Natures of his Wish.



The Lowest Heavens Are Right above you, please open your eyes,

They Are Very Real Just Look Up Past the Skies.

Parables are Riddles To those who debate with Fiddles,

Middle's Start and finish So your belief in time Is Beneath my limits.

I tell you Truly, Look up above Thee.

Shining Brightly The Lowest Heaven's Quote me.

Speaking Softly are the Nebula's and Constilations,

Behold It is not a dream In The Night-Time Above all Nations.



Peace and Blessings to All.

Your wish, not His.

I wish whatever He wills.


Peace

Yeah, right. (A rare double positive)

Ain't no Guy in the first place. nor in the subsequent places that you invent.

Invisibility Disorder.

Yeah, right. (A rare double positive)

Ain't no Guy in the first place. nor in the subsequent places that you
inInvisibility Disorder.



You will be given confirmation once you aquire faith and soften your heart.


Peace.

1 + (-1) = 0

Oh, ye of the lowest heavens,
Thy pride ever teaches lessons.

I'll go straight to the highest one and be my own God. A friend of mine, former Mormon, told me that Mormonism is just like that. If you are good enough in this life, you become the God of your own world. Maybe even this world is one of those thousands and thousands out there that are the reward for the faithful. So, it's Gods making Gods making Gods all the way up.

And turtles upon turtles all the way down—and at least Mormons of a certain sect get to have certain sex from their many young wives even into their later lives.

I'll go straight to the highest one and be my own God. A friend of mine, former Mormon, told me that Mormonism is just like that. If you are good enough in this life, you become the God of your own world. Maybe even this world is one of those thousands and thousands out there that are the reward for the faithful. So, it's Gods making Gods making Gods all the way up.

Thats not far off the truth, There is 7 Different Heavens, We can actualy See The lowest Level Above our Skies. The known universe all the Nebulas,planets and galaxes above us. That is the Lowest Heaven and gateway to that heaven It is huge.

Above that are Even greater levels of heaven, Each one getting more amazing and beautiful the higher you go, depending on your goodness you work your way up according to your virtue.


Only The prophets may Be granted acces to the Gates Of the Very Highest Heavens. The very Best and most Honourable Of men, Not even the Angels Can Enter This Paradise as they have not gone through enough Deeds to achieve this level of Reward.


God Resides Over all of the heavens and is not a part of any of them even thoug he controls all the Difrent Universe/Realms.

His Throne The Infinite Realm Of Potential and Majesty Resides Above All of his Created Heavens and Lower Dimensions.



Wisdom

There you go again, Chi, speaking for all of those pies in the sky.

Hast thou no humility at all?

There you go again, Chi, speaking for all of the those pies in the sky.

Hast thou no humility at all?


These are not only my words. These are the words of the Most High/


Peace.

Bob Marley?

Give thanks and praises to the Most High
Give thanks and praises so High
He wiIl not deceive us my brethren
He will only lead us again
Oh take that veil from off of your eyes
Look into the future of realise
Noah had three sons, Ham, Shem and Japhet…


Someone named Chi is hearing things from an empty cup of chai tea.

Bob Marley?

Bob marley cannot smoke the blunts that the Most High rolls.


Peace.

Give thanks and praises to the Most High
Give thanks and praises so High
He wiIl not deceive us my brethren
He will only lead us again
Oh take that veil from off of your eyes
Look into the future of realise
Noah had three sons, Ham, Shem and Japhet…


Someone named Chi is hearing things from an empty cup of chai tea.

I don't hear voices....


Cycles

So, you met the most high guy personally?

So, you met the most high guy personally?

No he hasn't taken me up to see him personaly.


Peace.

Is this high guy way up on the complexity scale because he is an alien who is much more evolved than we are, or does he exist below and beneath the simpler and simpler, having made that and caused its upwards cascade? Or did he make everything at once?

Are you going to scroll through the scrolls to find the answer written but by a human hand? If so, don't bother, for those were just the 'web sites' of those times.

Chi, words of and on a nonscientific paper are not reliable—just some old and ancient guy writing his wish list for xmas, his life, and afterlife.

Empty4softcheese already acknowledged that he cannot reasonably convince others on the basis of his testimony alone, and I certainly cannot question his personal experiences as I wasn't there. He didn't grow up brainwashed into believing, and I don't think he's crazy. The fact is some human experiences can be strange and unexplainable, so all we are left with is a mystery, which is something scientists should be comfortable with.

Perhaps Chi will tell us more of his history.

He has been around awhile.

In most of the religious traditions where there are myths about multiple heavens, they are arranged heirarchically, from lowest to highest. The image is one of spiritual ascent, with spirits rising through the heavens towards some ultimate apotheosis on high.

I think that oftentimes these heavens are associated with and symbolize states of consciousness (whether actually experienced in religious contemplation or simply imagined). Heavenly ascent mythologies are often closely associated with mystical psychologies.

Yes alot of The eastern religions happen to be alot closer to the truth than what the Abrahamic religions would tell you.

In This case it is not Linked to an earthly state of consciousness. This is real. Take a look at all the Hubble photographs taken of the Distant Nebulas and Star Systems, The Lowest Heavens are Visible to Human Eyes on earth as a mercy for us.


Peace.

Yes alot of The eastern religions happen to be alot closer to the truth than what the Abrahamic religions would tell you.

In This case it is not Linked to an earthly state of consciousness. This is real.

They have the balance of opposites, Yin and Yang, ever swirling into the rounded life, plus, as you hint, that some think that all is consciousness (of Brahman), but then why would we have sense organs—so, all is real.

1 + (-1) = 0

How did you come upon the 'high' way and what clinched it for you?

They have the balance of opposites, Yin and Yang, ever swirling into the rounded life, plus, as you hint, that some think that all is consciousness (of Brahman), but then why would we have sense organs—so, all is real.

1 + (-1) = 0

How did you come upon the 'high' way and what clinched it for you?



Brahman Is The most high his voice manifests into reality so all is real. I already told you the answers.


Peace

Brahman Is The most high his voice manifests into reality so all is real. I already told you the answers.

Yes, but how did you decide to follow this? Sounded good, or what?

Yes, but how did you decide to follow this? Sounded good, or what?


I already told you Im following orders.


Peace.

You should write a new Bible incorporating eastern philosophies. I kind of like the idea of space being our goal, if we are worthy of getting there. I don't mind religion per se, just the superstitious parts of it that do not respect the same quality that would get us out of the solar system- reason.

You should write a new Bible incorporating eastern philosophies. I kind of like the idea of space being our goal, if we are worthy of getting there. I don't mind religion per se, just the superstitious parts of it that do not respect the same quality that would get us out of the solar system- reason.

There doesn't need to be a new Bible lol that's the last thing we need. All we need to do is Read All of the books and use our God Given Intuition and hearts to Check for paradox and Authenticity etc.


In Islam you do not have any limits of Learning regarding books this is one thing I think most Western people do not know about Muslims. The Quran it's self teaches to read other books, study the past Philosophers, Read The Old Bibles also even the gospels, which the Quran states are roughly 50% Lies mixed in with some truths.


Alot of Muslims in this day and age abuse the Quran which it Forbids doing. You are not supposed to take exerpts from verses and leave them out of Whole context for your own personal Jihads.

Jihad is the most Miss-Understood Teaching of the Quran and most Abused. There are 3 types Of Jihad and one of them is personal Jihad. Which Is fighting for your own justice, You are permitted to fight back when you are attacked only. If you are the aggressor then you are Commiting Haram acts (Forbidden/Sinfull).

These Suicide Bombers are Abusing the Quran, It forbids taking life or even attacking anybody. If you were being shot at then you can shoot back. If you fire the first bullet you are Sinning and you are wrong. This includes blowing yourself up which is also forbidden. Suicide is Haram, you can sacrifice your life to save people though.


The Buddhas Were messengers, The most high did not only send messengers to the Middle East Region alone. Each messenger brings something Different slightly but he will never teach that there is no god, or speak ill of God.

some messengers came to warn, some to give wisdom, some to share some secrets about the heavens and secret realms and beings. Some to guide the people of that era in great hardship. Not all messengers are great Poets or philosophers, Some are brave "simple" folk who were sent to right horrible wrongs done by other beings on earth.

Whenever a disaster or Tyrant comes, rest assured that Hero's Will Emerge.


Peace and Wisdom.

You are wasting your time trying to defend that pile of swine manure. I was hoping your reinterpretation of scripture might extend into something truly useful, to bridge the gap between the advanced and subtle philosophies of the east and the primitive superstitions of the west, but it's the same old shit. Who defines what constitutes the first shot? Shots are going on all the time, low level conflict is everywhere. If western countries are as seen as the culprit, then they become fair game for the wrath of Allah. That's the problem with law, once you start to write it down people become lawyers.

Chi, you would have it that, we, too, should follow orders of a truth which you even admit cannot be shown and proved. Now why should we do that, for anyone could say anything, and they all have. At least you have Buddha behind the scenes, organizing and sending all the messengers that others take as gods.

Unfortunately, any original and great Mind is disproven via self-contradiction, for it would be a system, but I suppose no one thinks about that while caught up in the euphoria of it all. Plus, Totality had to have been forever, so, there was no creation of it.

And the only possible prime mover that is both eternal and infinite is, requiring not anything before it is…

contained and defined in your 0+0=0.

You are wasting your time trying to defend that pile of swine manure. I was hoping your reinterpretation of scripture might extend into something truly useful, to bridge the gap between the advanced and subtle philosophies of the east and the primitive superstitions of the west, but it's the same old shit. Who defines what constitutes the first shot? Shots are going on all the time, low level conflict is everywhere. If western countries are as seen as the culprit, then they become fair game for the wrath of Allah. That's the problem with law, once you start to write it down people become lawyers.


One of my Books Is focused on this very Subject I am Still Gathering information, Sci-Forums is even helping me a little. Why don;t you Write a Study on it for Publishing in the future. I would be happy To Co-Write or Add your piece and Obviously give you Any Profits due in %.

Peace.

Chi, you would have it that, we, too, should follow orders of a truth which you even admit cannot be shown and proved. Now why should we do that, for anyone could say anything, and they all have. At least you have Buddha behind the scenes, organizing and sending all the messengers that others take as gods.

Unfortunately, any original and great Mind is disproven via self-contradiction, for it would be a system, but I suppose no one thinks about that while caught up in the euphoria of it all. Plus, Totality had to have been forever, so, there was no creation of it.

And the only possible prime mover that is both eternal and infinite is, requiring not anything before it is…

contained and defined in your 0+0=0.


I ask of people to follow the commandments only. Things like.


Do not Worship Physical Things/Idols (including jesus/Prophets/Crosses)
Do not Murder
Do not Steal
Do not Have Affairs
Treat Others how you want them to treat you
etc


I have never asked people to do anything that is bad, these laws are fpr good reasons, Do you have problems with the commandments? you want to steal and lie and worship pieces of physical mass/energy that you yourself are made of.


If you like most normal Atheists even live by these basic human rules then you follow the laws too even outside of religion.


Peace.

Chi, these laws of morals greatly predated Moses and the Ten Commandments; they were a human construction.

Chi, these laws of morals greatly predated Moses and the Ten Commandments; they were a human construction.

Yes ofcourse they Pre-date `Moses, (Musa) In The Days of Adam (adaman) Murder was a Sin even then. In The days of Jared The Laws remained in their hearts and in the Word, His Seed Enoch Wrote Of The Transgressors and produced a Book Detailing the Sins and He Was Honourable and still is. Peace be upon Them.



Peace.

Do Our Values/Laws/Morals Come From God and/or Religion?

The religions of the world have lain claim to the role of arbiters of human behavior. Their leaders continually decry the moral decay they allege to see in society. They insist they have the right to tell the rest of us what is right and what is wrong because they have a special pipeline to the place where right and wrong are defined—the mind of God.

According to Phillip Johnson of the Discovery Institute, nonbelievers think humans came from monkeys, and this is the source of many of the evils of modern society including homosexuality, abortion, pornography, divorce, and genocide—as if the world had none of these before Darwin came along.

However common may be the view that religion is the source of moral behavior, what do the data say? There is no evidence that nonbelievers commit crimes or other antisocial acts in greater proportion than believers. Indeed, some studies indicate the opposite. Six of the seven states with the highest crime rates are in the Bible Belt. 80% of the prison population are Christians. Nontheists comprise about 0.2 percent. So, it is not the godless that fill prisons.

A child's risk of sexual abuse by a family member increases as the family's religious denomination becomes more conservative, that is, when the teachings of scriptures and other doctrines are taken more literally. Similarly, the probability of wife abuse increases with the rigidity of a church's teachings pertaining to the gender roles and hierarchy.

And what of the Catholic clergy’s sexual abuse of children? It speaks for itself.

Even observers from the Christian side have expressed dismay that the current dominance of evangelical Christianity in America has not translated into a strengthening of the nation's moral character, nor the characters of evangelical Christians themselves. In an article last year in Christianity Today, theologian Ronald Sider noted that "survey after survey [demonstrates] that evangelical Christians are as likely to embrace lifestyles every bit as hedonistic, materialistic, self-centered, and sexually immoral as the world in general." Divorce is more common among "born-again" Christians than in the general American population. White evangelicals are the most likely people to object to neighbors of another race. Evangelical youth are only slightly less promiscuous than that of their nonevangelical peers.

We are not saying in this post how humans ought to behave. Rather we are observing how they do behave. Preachers tell us that any universal moral standards can only come from one source—their particular God. Otherwise standards would be relative, depending on culture and differing across cultures and individuals. However, the majority of human beings from all cultures and all religions or no religion agree on a common set of moral standards.

Universal norms exist. As anthropologist Solomon Asch has noted, "We do not know of societies in which bravery is despised and cowardice held up to honor, in which generosity is considered a vice and ingratitude a virtue."

While we live in a society of law, much of what we do is not constrained by law but performed voluntarily. For example, we have many opportunities to cheat and steal in situations where the chance of being caught is negligible, yet most of us do not cheat and steal. While the Golden Rule is not usually obeyed to the letter, we generally do not try to harm others. Indeed, we are sympathetic when we see a person or animal in distress and take action to provide relief. We stop at auto accidents and render aid. We call the police when we witness a crime. We take care of children, aged parents, and others less fortunate than us. We willingly take on risky jobs, such as in the military or public safety, for the protection of the community.

That stealing from members of your own community is immoral requires no divine revelation. It is revealed by a moment's reflection on the type of society that would exist if everyone stole from one another. If lying were considered a virtue instead of truth telling, communication would become impossible. Mothers have loved their children since before mammals walked the Earth?—for obvious evolutionary reasons. The only precepts unique to religions are those telling us to not to question their dogma.

…

Everything Comes from god.


Alpha

Moral disagreements can be very pronounced—especially within specific religious communities, where the same scriptural readings are even often used to justify contradictory actions.

For example, consider the opposing interpretations of the commandment against killing found within the Christian community. Conservative Protestants interpret this commandment as prohibiting abortion, stem-cell research, and removing life-support systems from the incurable, among other actions. However, they do not view capital punishment as prohibited, pointing to the biblical prescription of an eye for an eye. Catholics and liberal Protestants, on the other hand, generally interpret the commandment as forbidding capital punishment. But Catholics oppose while liberals allow abortion, the removal of life-support, and stem-cell research. In all these cases, the Bible is evidently ambiguous. So how do Christians decide what is right or wrong? While they may look at the Bible, how they interpret what they read must depend on ideas that they have already developed from some other source.

The Judeo-Christian and Islamic scriptures contain many passages that teach noble ideals, which the human race has done well to adopt as norms of behavior and, where appropriate, to codify into law. But without exception these principles developed in earlier cultures and history indicates that they were adopted by—rather than learned from—religion. While it is fine that religions preach moral precepts, they have no basis to claim that these precepts were authored by their particular deity, or, indeed, any deity at all.

Perhaps the primary principle upon which to live a moral life is the Golden Rule:

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.

In our Christian-dominated society in the West, most people wrongly assume that this was an original teaching of Jesus from the Sermon on the Mount. For some reason, their preachers, who surely know better, perpetuate this falsehood. Jesus himself made no such claim. Indeed, the phrase "love thy neighbor as thyself" appears in Leviticus 19:18, written a thousand years or so before Christ.

Furthermore, the Golden Rule is not the exclusive property of a small desert tribe with a high opinion of itself. Here are some other, independent sources showing that the Golden Rule was already a widespread teaching well before Jesus:

— In The Doctrine of the Mean 13, written about 500 BCE, Confucius says, "What you do not want others to do to you, do not do to others."

— Isocrates (c. 375 BCE) said, "Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others."

— The Hindu Mahabharata, written around 150 BCE, teaches, "This is the sum of all true righteousness: deal with others as thou wouldst thyself be dealt by."

So these are not uniquely Theist sentiments.

The call to "love your enemies" also has ancient roots, but not in the Old Testament:

— I treat those who are good with goodness. And I also treat those who are not good with goodness. Thus goodness is attained. I am honest with those who are honest. And I am also honest with those who are dishonest. Thus honesty is attained. (Taoism. Tao Te Ching 49)

— Conquer anger by love. Conquer evil by good. Conquer the stingy by giving. Conquer the liar by truth. (Buddhism. Dhammapada 223)
*
*In fact, no original moral concept of any significance can be found in the New Testament. As early twentieth century historian and former Franciscan monk Joseph McCabe noted,

The sentiments attributed to Christ are . . . were familiar in the Jewish schools, and to all the Pharisees, long before the time of Christ, as they were familiar in all the civilizations of the earth—Egyptian, Babylonian, and Persian, Greek and Hindu.

As with the Bible, the Qur'an contains many sentiments that most of us would classify as commendable. It tells Muslims to be kind to their parents, not to steal from orphans, not to lend money at excess interest, to help the needy, and not to kill their children unless it is necessary.

Again, these are not original moral principles, but repetitions of common ideals that arose during the gradual evolution of human societies, as they become more civilized, developed rational thinking processes, and discovered how to live together in greater harmony.

This thread Is about the Heavens, or the "Realms Of Samsara" Or whatever else people have called/Named them when Writing Philosophical scrolls over the years.


My Direct realistic point in the Verse I wrote was that the Lowest of these heavens Is Visable to Us we can see the actual gateways and Energy of these Realms of lowest heaven.


The topic is not about moral Religious beliefs and origin of Ethical standards.


Wisdom

OK, we'll ignore your temporary direction to that specific area sub-topic…