View Full Version : The Pope's Statement: Not Nearly Enough
04-24-02, 10:55 AM
The Pope addressed the American Cardinals concerning their problems with priests molesting minors (full text here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33223-2002Apr23.html).) The Pope makes it clear that such conduct is unacceptable, but in my mind, he didn't go nearly far enough with respect to the Church hierarchy's cover-up. Here's what he said about that:
It is true that a generalized lack of knowledge of the nature of the problem and also at times the advice of clinical experts led bishops to make decisions which subsequent events showed to be wrong.In other words, he's still soft-pedaling the actions of the hierarchy.
He goes on to say to the cardinals:
You are now working to establish more reliable criteria to ensure that such mistakes are not repeated. At the same time, even while recognizing how indispensable these criteria are, we cannot forget the power of Christian conversion, that radical decision to turn away from sin and back to God, which reaches to the depths of a person's soul and can work extraordinary change.That's well and good, but - whether we're talking about Swaggart or Bakker or Cardinal Law - when a religious leader has committed a major betrayal of the trust placed in him, he should await that conversion as a member of the flock, and not as its shepherd.
04-25-02, 05:32 PM
The pope cannot be responsible for the actions of every priest in the catholic religion. His statements supported the fact that he was unhappy with ceartain priests action and to me that is enough. I'm sure that if he could change the past he would.
Considering Nova Scotia had a similar problem not that long ago,
I find it difficult to believe that no one got on ball and checked out
how the rest of North America was getting along.
Oh, that's right ... They were Canadians.
Hm ... Wonder if there'll be a class action suit to retrieve contributions
over the last decade or so because of the Church's misappropriation
of funds (the paying of 'quiet money')?
Oh well, just a stupid thought.
Take care :(
There's been many cases in Canada in the past while. Just the U.S. doesn't care about us.
The catholic church doesn't care about the molesting. It's more concerned with it's reputation. They have payed off numberous victims to ensure they don't tell the press.
04-25-02, 09:19 PM
i have to say that the catholic church isn't the only ones to be guilty of this
The govener general of Australia, who is a former Anglican Archbishop, is being attacked (rightly) by the media here about why HE covered up evidance in at least one school and i forget the other places
Do you need me to post a link? (i surpose i can find one although anyone who has watched ANY media here will be able to say im right, its a major news artical here)
04-26-02, 09:10 AM
Asguard and Tyler both have the right of it I think... the individuals rights are being lost in the need of the institutions to preserve their own reputations.
04-26-02, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Robeson
His [Pope John Paul] statements supported the fact that he was unhappy with ceartain priests action and to me that is enough.Well, that's terrific… the Pope is unhappy.
I agree that the Pope cannot control the actions of every priest, and cannot change the past. But he might acknowledge it. Though the Pope's statements unequivocally call child molestation a crime and a sin, he has avoided anything resembling an apology, which I believe is absolutely essential.
My true concern is the future. There has been nothing to suggest that the Vatican sees the Church hierarchy as guilty of anything. And the talk of forgiveness and conversion leads me to suspect that the Pope and his closest advisors STILL don't grasp the seriousness of what's going on. I remain fearful that, in the minds of the Pope and many top cardinals, the "crime" of the accused priests lies not in their abuse of children, but in their failure to remain celibate.
Forgiveness might be appropriate for a priest who broke his vow of celibacy and had sex with a willing, adult woman. But it's disgusting to suggest that a pedophile might still be worthy of a second chance... yet the Pope seems to be suggesting that some of them should get a second chance.
The possibility of Cardinal Law, Boston, being moved to Rome, at
least to me, indicates how endemic the 'move them somewhere
else' response is in the Catholic Church.
God forbid we hold prelates as accountable as priests.
Take care :rolleyes:
04-27-02, 03:16 PM
They have payed off numberous victims to ensure they don't tell the press.
Evidence please... :D
I can't find the article at this moment, and I gotta leave in 4 mins, but here:
"Canada hasn't been immune to the same sorts of scandals, including the sexual abuse of children by a lay order of Catholics at Mount Cashel orphanage in Newfoundland between 1962 and 1990. Ten Christian Brothers who worked at the orphanage were convicted of abusing boys in their care. The Newfoundland government paid out $11 million in settlements to victims. The scandal also inspired the CBC TV docudrama The Boys of St. Vincent.
This month alone, a Roman Catholic priest who was convicted of sexually assaulting two boys 20 years ago was dismissed from his job as chaplain at a hospital in Hamilton, Ont. And in British Columbia, a priest accused of sexual molestation in the United States who was found to have been working in remote areas of the province since 1988 quit his post as a parish priest in Terrace to take "an administrative leave." "
The reason there was no statement over the 20 years was because of payoffs. There were 3 little girls in Northern Ontario who recently came out too, inspired by a boy who spoke up, who were payed off.
04-27-02, 06:16 PM
...Ten Christian Brothers who worked at the orphanage were convicted of abusing boys in their care...
Wasn't that the case where they were volunteers insetad of Christians...?
This is actually said in the Bible. It happens since before Christ and still happens for a long time. The Bible always talks about them... mainly in the beginning of the New Testament...
There are also prophecies about that in Revelations...
It's not from God, it's from man...
Nope. There were many cases where catholic priests in Canada abused. Seen The Boys of St. Vincent?
04-27-02, 09:32 PM
No...but I've seen another case where volunteers did it in a church... a case like the one you pointed out...
what's your point?
04-28-02, 05:41 PM
I guess the same as yours... I agree that the church nowdays is decadent with all those that call themselves "Christians" do those things...
05-18-02, 10:24 PM
Buggery aside for the moment, I've never forgiven the Catholic Church for building a fire under Giordano Bruno in 1600, or for the countless thousands of other unfortunates that were tortured and murdered by this church.
In March of 2000 the pope made a blanket apology for such "excesses". However, I don't understand that an institution which claims to be founded by God, with the pope acting as his representitive on earth, should have to ask for an apology? If it really is God's church he has the absolute right to burn and bugger us to his heart's content. I mean, he's God right? He already kills us in earthquakes, floods, and famines with great regularity. So, is God really asking for our forgiveness?
Hmm...if so, I say we make a deal; we give him a pardon in exchange for his removing the scourge of cancer from among us. We might also wrangle an extended average life of say, 160 years instead of the usual 80 out of him. One more thing, I'm tired of having to pluck hair out of my ears on a weekly basis all-the-while the hair on my forehead is growing thinner. I want that nonsense stopped as well.
Come on people, it looks like we've got him where we want him. Let's hold out for a better deal!
05-19-02, 02:19 AM
so do you condem the US for its slavery?
the British and French and all the others for there petty wars and serfdom (which was just another name for slavery)?
05-19-02, 06:31 AM
We're talking about the Catholic Church which makes some very special claims for itself. The governments of the US, England and France, are institutions designed by men. They don't claim to be descended from, or to represent the will of, a god.
Governments are allowed to say, "Oops sorry, we goofed. Hey, we're only human afterall!" Instead the Church tells us that its cornerstone was laid by Jesus himself, the supposed son-of-God. The pope is said to be descended from Peter the Apostle as God's primary representative on earth.
In response to Bruno's astronomical and philosophical assertions, the Roman Catholic church hierarchy debated for some eight years what to to with him. Surely they had ample time to decipher the will of their god, don't you think? Yet they still got it wrong, and not just a little wrong; Pope Clement VIII himself ordered Bruno's execution to be carried out. The Church brought Bruno to the Campo di Fiori in Rome where he was burned alive.
Now they say it was all a mistake, but how could the Church make mistakes on such a grand scale yet still ask us to believe in its magic? If they could have been so wrong by murdering the dissenters among their flock, what assurance do I have that all their teachings are not equally as wrong?
I've little doubt the church would try to get off by saying their "errors" were made by fallible men. Fine, I believe that. However, these mistakes were not made by the church janitors; they were made from the pope-on-down. These men claim to have made the correct interpretation of God's word, "as given in the Bible." We are told the pope enjoys a unique line of communication with God. The Church is not at all timid about making grandiose claims; claims that can't be proven in the usual sense, but have to be accepted on faith alone. Yet their leaders have in the past acted no better than some of the more riduculous Bannana Republics. They've gotten it wrong time-and-time again. How could they straightfaced, expect me to believe they have it right this time?
They simply can't have it both ways.