Just felt like posting a grand title.

Seriously, what strategy and prerequisites would I require in order to look attractive to a slightly nerdy girl? (well, deadly smart and intelligent, but not entIREly nerd, just slightly. She's nerdy enough to be spending her summer in a science camp. But she has dated before.)

I need some serious advice here. I'm making headway, I can get her to laugh, and she thinks my remarks are entertaining. But I dare not make any big moves yet.

*Ugh* Every single one of them is different. It depends on so many things. How old is she? Are you dating for sex or companionship or you are auditioning to become her husband? It is hard to say without knowing some specifics.

Everyone's strategy is different. Personally I would give her a very obvious hint in my own way. Sometimes that is difficult for me because I am a huge flirt. Women don't know if I am playing or actually interested..... but anyways, you let her know and see how she would respond. Sometimes they turn into a bitch but that doesn't mean she is not interested. A lot of time she is confused since a lot of things can go through her head. Or maybe she plays hard to get. If she doesn't like you at all she will just be indifferent. When I ask a woman out, she is already expecting it and already have plenty of time to think about it unless if she is really stupid.

Sorry can't help you really. I am pretty confused by women myself lately.

Oh, sometimes you can tell if a woman is interested in you. Instead of just making eye contact, they actually look into your eyes. The other way is when people have conversations, they keep a distance with the person they are comfortable with. If she likes you, she wants to be within your space. If "eyes" are your strong point, you can actually see them stare right into your pupils. They literally get lost in your eyes. Actually, you can try to seduce her that way. That is how I do it :D

Dunno. Can't help you there. I am dumb. I have trouble with women lately. Don't take me too seriously.

What if we are of different race?

And I am looking for companionship. Within your space? Ahh...

Any other strats than eyes?

Xev, your advice would be highly appreciated...what do intelligent girls look for?

Originally posted by Zero
What if we are of different race?

Ooooohhh..... Ya race makes big difference. What race is she? Also nationality too. Hispanic women are very straight forward and don't play mind games....Caucasian women are exact opposite. They are very predictably unpredictable though. Jewish women.....if they like you they want a quick shag, but in the end they really want to date their own kind. I never dated Blacks or Asians so I wouldn't say I know. I ask a black female friend of mine in school if she would ever go after guys of different race, she said "nope, strickly niggerly". Actually she also said black women have inferiority complex when it comes to looks so they are afraid of chasing guys outside of their race.



Any other strats than eyes?

Width of your dick



Xev, your advice would be highly appreciated...what do intelligent girls look for?
You will find a lot of dumb women want similar things, but all intelligent women want different things so it is hard to predict. Some are quite weird.

Zero:

What if we are of different race?

What race? C'mon, give us the juicy details man!


Xev, your advice would be highly appreciated...what do intelligent girls look for?

Me? A man who won't leave me, cheat, and has a pulse.

Okay okay, no hijacking to be self-depreciating.

Umm.....

A guy who can hold a conversation on intellectual subjects. And who shows interest in you rather exclusively - feed the ego.

What the average women wants...

"Ambition & industriousness; favorable social status; good financial prospect"


What the average male wants....

"Good looks"

Source: Hergenhahn & Olson. An introduction to theories of personality. Prentice Hall: Upper Saddle River, 398.

Ambition is the desire to change your social status, gain more material possessions, et cetera. It's a weakness.

Unless you are talking about the ambition ti improve in some manner, such as learn more, become more tolerant, et cetera. That's fine by me, and does not go against anything in the Book Of Adam.

Oh, Adam? What about if material things are what you enjoy in life? What if I truly desire to travel around Europe? It would certainly take ambition to get the money for that.

It's craving possessions and status for their own sake, to boost the ego, that I find a weakness.

As a means to an end, well, I do stuff for money as well.

You're vastly over generalizing. To be ambitious means to know what one wants and be more than willing to do what it takes to get what one wants. That is a perfectly honourable attribute.

Ambition is the desire to change your social status, gain more material possessions, et cetera. It's a weakness.

Unless you are talking about the ambition ti improve in some manner, such as learn more, become more tolerant, et cetera. That's fine by me, and does not go against anything in the Book Of Adam.

I have no idea which they mean. But I'm guessing since these series of studies come from a mainly sociobiologcal stance, that status is a big part of it.

I agree with you though, I consider it a weakness. But then again we're both single. :p

You're vastly over generalizing. To be ambitious means to know what one wants and be more than willing to do what it takes to get what one wants. That is a perfectly honourable attribute.

Actually you're generalizing and Adam is more discriminating, but beside the point I think what you said is probably what they mean, just a general knowing of what one wants and trying to get it.

ambition is natural. like fear.

And apparently, hijacking topics is natural.

GIVE ZERO HIS TOPIC BACK OR I'LL HIT YOU ALL WITH THE HOLY HERRING OF NETIQUETTE!

Except Joeman. :p

Originally posted by Zero
Seriously, what strategy and prerequisites would I require in order to look attractive to a slightly nerdy girl? (well, deadly smart and intelligent, but not entIREly nerd, just slightly. She's nerdy enough to be spending her summer in a science camp. But she has dated before.)

Read this How to be an AFC, the secrets of the chump. (http://www.sciforums.com/t8769/s/thread.html)

Go to the guide, read it, and do not do what it says. Read the thread, if you read what I am saying, and it's making lots of sense to you, congratulations, you are an open-minded person.

Becareful also, I've dated the most innocent girl, sweetest cute voice, straight A's, etc. etc. she ended up playing me in the end, don't judge a book by it's cover.


I need some serious advice here. I'm making headway, I can get her to laugh, and she thinks my remarks are entertaining. But I dare not make any big moves yet.

Good, be humor. You making her laugh = you're a man that's able to make her feel comfortable around you.

"I dare not date to make big moves yet."

Do not fear rejection, and listen to this quote

"Hesitation is just like masturbation, in the end, you're just screwing yourself"

You're thinking too much, girls want guys with confidence...don't be afraid to do something wrong, you'll come off as weak, don't be afraid of her, she's just a woman!!

Be confident, exciting, funny, etc.

Most of all don't fear the woman, it'll lead to your downfall.

And listening to advice does not make you a fake person, people say that because they want to only listen to themselves. You must be really open minded here, it takes alot of courage to accept what I say. Women all over the world read magazines such as Cosmo, Glamour, etc. etc. stuff like that, that gives them advice on men...so does that make them fake people? NO!

You are improving, and if you can't accept improvement, then get rid of your ego, everyone has room for improvement, no one is a master.

And apparently, hijacking topics is natural.

GIVE ZERO HIS TOPIC BACK OR I'LL HIT YOU ALL WITH THE HOLY HERRING OF NETIQUETTE!

Xev, I don't consider this being a hijack. Zero wanted to know what women want. I posted some research about it, which included "ambition". We were just discussing what they mean by ambition in these studies.

Cool. I'll try some stuff.

I'm sure I won't cheat. I've got the willpower for it.

I can hold my own (oh more than hold my own) in intellectual subkects, I have a pulse (I think)...

I can feed anyone's ego. I think I'm good. Anything else?

Normally I would think this belongs in a completely different forum website, but since you're working in some kind of science angle, I'll bite.

What is it you're looking for? A date, a relationship, or sex?

Whatever it is, she's most likely already made up her mind. There's little you can "do" at this point, other than continue to be friendly, and most of all, yourself. Don't be afraid to show her what you show all your real friends. If you're a crass bastard around them, she's probably going to figure that out anyway. That might even be what turns her on. But don't constantly over-correct yourself and agonize over everything you say and do. If she doesn't like something you say or do, and shuns you for it, then she's probably not worth the effort. It sounds like you're young, and there's probably more than a few hormones working their way with your perceptions. It's been proven that brains that fall in love are high in phenethylamine, or PEA, which is similiar to amphetamine and also found in chocolate. The beginning stages of love are a rush, and like any drug, there is a comedown. Not to deromanticize or reductionalize the situation, but since you are posting in a science forum, this information is fair game. Too many people, I think, try too hard to change themselves at the beginning of a relationship (many guys I know shun their old friends as part of this process) in order to constantly please their mate, only to see someone entirely different after the fallout and reality sets in later. Be yourself. Consider the possibility that this won't last, so enjoy it for now, and don't bend yourself out of shape for it.

Judging from the description of the circumstances, (science camp), you guys are young and I would think that a girl who is at a science camp is interested in mental pursuits and not overly emotional interaction. She might prefer to be independent for now, to distance herself from the notion that she needs to have a boyfriend. The possibility is that she herself doesn't know what to do with the strange processes of boy-girl interactions, and so moving too fast can result in dark dark times very quickly.

Or not. She could be simmering like the band camp chick in American Pie. In that case, brother - do what you're told. In the meantime, get some exercise up in ya.

John Le Coq

My opinion,

What do women, or for that matter people, like in others?

Confidence.

People are attracted to people who are comfortable and enjoy yourselves. Also, don't try to hard. If you try to hard you get in the way of yourself. In other words care but don't care - if that makes sense. Ask her straight up if she wants to go do an activity with you. If she refuses, try a couple more times. If she is avoidant (has only semi-legitimate excuses) after a number of times, drop it. If you don't have confidence in yourself to do this she won't have confidence in you.

Also, people radiate emotions. Being around happy people generally causes you to be happy. Feeling good about yourself and expressing this will cause others to feel good.

Originally posted by Xenu
Also, people radiate emotions. Being around happy people generally causes you to be happy. Feeling good about yourself and expressing this will cause others to feel good.

10: Infection: avoid the unhappy and the unlucky.

That speaks truth.

Everything doesn't rely on confidence alone. You have to be cocky, funny, and so on.

Zero, let us in on your situation, what's happening?

Everything doesn't rely on confidence alone. You have to be cocky, funny, and so on.

No it doesn't, but confidence is a major factor in my opinion. To be "cocky" or "funny", one has to be confident. Although many women I know are turned off by cockiness. People that are nothing but funny jokers are turn-offs in the long run too. The women that I know, in the long run, want someone that they can genuinely talk to.

I am Oriental, she is Caucasian. I am 100% americanized, I use perfect english, but I also speak my native language perfectly. Well, I haven't mastered it as well as english, but I can reasonably live there without looking like a gaijin.

I can make her laugh, she likes (or so she says) my randomness (unpredictability), none of us have any racial issues (or so it seems), and I am one of the rare type of guys who do not look for sex in a relationship. Believe it or not, I look for *gasp* companionship and someone to talk to. I talk a lot but I can also listen. I love any music, and she happens to be musical. Her playing entrances me. I'm sure she's noticed.

My weak point is that whiel I do respect other people, I have little self rspect. I tend to blame myself, I tend to think abou others being far superior to me (isn't that true? Who in the world with a sane mind would like ME? moi?), etc etc. But that is just something in the heart, not a mental ilness or anything. And the fact that you need self respect to respect others does not seem to apply to me. I respect her, (I absolutely cherish her).

We are working on a project together with one other girl (that makes 3). Right now she has no clue what I am thinking. We are still "friends" at the moment, no mention of love has come up.

Ah. Okay I can help you. Caucasian women play the meanest mind games and least trust worthy. In their culture, you begin by playing innocent. (or playing dumb). Flirt with her and see how it goes. If you are not good with flirting get some practice. Don't go need to look at stuff on the web for that. Use your common sense. Observe their body language. When you flirt make sure you don't look creepy and desperate. You want to look cool and calm. When you flirt, you want to throw as many curve balls as you can. That is really hard to explain. If she is interested, you would know. You will expect some cold shoulders though. That only means she is in a pissy mood or having PMS. She could still be interested in you.

In the place I am from, Asian guys have the reputation of being shy, level headed, and passive. A lot of time if a caucasian gal likes you she will make the move instead.

Well, good luck and have safe sex.

edit to add: dating is not a science. don't over analyze.

Shy, level headed and passive? That's me!

Hmm...flirting? I can stop myself form looking creepy or desperate, though. I might be pathetic, bt not retarded.


Cool, then she might make first move. Or shall I? I'm not exactly the expert at making first moves.


Xev, any thoughts?

Zero, In the US it's generally expected that men make the first move. This is definitely not a rule, but a loose expectation. Many women do make a first move, but generally they tend to be more outgoing. The way you described her she didn't seem to be an extrovertive type. I am only going by what I've read however.

I'd just ask her to do something simple with you. Like go to coffee, or hang out at your place, etc. You don't have to make it a big thing. That way you both can test the waters. Also don't plan it all out. Start thinking of activities you would like to do with people, have a "library" of things to do, and then you can automatically pull one out of the hat spontaneously when the situation calls for it.

Just my advice. I wish I could carry through with my own advice sometimes though :rolleyes:

Zero:

I dunno. I can never make the first move, and never have (seeing as I have the social skills of a decapitated lemur).

If she's a nerd, she may well be shy, and if she's shy, you'll need to make the first move.

It's common practice for men to make the first move, as Xenu said.

Originally posted by Xenu
The women that I know, in the long run, want someone that they can genuinely talk to.

Cockiness alone is bad, you have to be cocky + funny.

But anyway, "genuinely"...:rolleyes: Still thinking it attributes to "fakeness" eh?

Originally posted by Zero
I am Oriental, she is Caucasian. I am 100% americanized, I use perfect english, but I also speak my native language perfectly. Well, I haven't mastered it as well as english, but I can reasonably live there without looking like a gaijin.

You are Oriental!! Cool, I am full-azn here...anyway gauge her attraction level...look deep into her eyes.

For others, it's take practice to actually doing it to let her eyes dilate...it produces a cool effect ;)

Anyway don't be shy, be determined and confident in what you do. Dependency = fear to women.

Don't seek approval from her, she has to seek approval from you, you are the man. Argue with her opinions, seeking approval and agreeing with everything she says is weak, worshipping, and signifies you can't take care of yourself.

Have confidence in yourself.

Originally posted by Xev
Zero:

I dunno. I can never make the first move, and never have (seeing as I have the social skills of a decapitated lemur).

If she's a nerd, she may well be shy, and if she's shy, you'll need to make the first move.

It's common practice for men to make the first move, as Xenu said.

you? With the social skills of a lemur?? No way, you're very social and outgoing. I'm the one with the social skills of a decap-lem whaever. But I do make up for it in other ways.

I could theoretically make first move, but does it mean that it is over if I blow it in the first round? How do I know if I blew it in the first move?


And after I make the opening moves, are there any good strategies for taking control of the center, and finally forcing her into "mate"? (sounds a bit sick, I'm talking about checkmate here...indicating mission accomplished!)

More suggestions from the experienced, meanwhile I am steadily building up the momentum. She still has no clue, and I am throwing smoke screens aroudn by randomly having animated conversations with other girls as well (can't go anywhere, we are both stuck in a sci camp in teh middle of nowhere.). Just so that no unpleasant rumors don't spread, "hey look so and so has a crush on so and so" etc etc and on comes the deadly barrage of feminine giggling and social disgrace. My smoke screens are working pretty well , but any suggestions? I don't want to overdo it and I'll need somethign else, too.

And some suggestions for the big play will be welcome, I have to do it sooner or later. Thanks.

Originally posted by Zero

I could theoretically make first move, but does it mean that it is over if I blow it in the first round? How do I know if I blew it in the first move?


"No. It is never over until we say it is over. Was it over when the Germans bombed the pearl harbor? Hell no"

If you ask her to "do something" and she is in a big shock, then you are in trouble. If you ask her out, she should know to expect something like that from you. If you have been acting like a "friend" the whole time, you might be in trouble. The proper message to send her should be "although I like to be your friend, I really would like to go a step further." OR "although we are friends, I do have an admiration for you sexually."

Whether it is over or not would really depends on how she handles it. While some guys can't handle being rejected, you will run into a lot of bitches who don't know how to reject a guy the proper way. Some girls blow it so badly that she pretty much burns the bridge between you two.

Keep in mind that if a woman reject you the first time, that doesn't mean she doesn't like you. A lot of things can go through their heads and sometimes it is not understood easily. Sometimes a girl shoot you down because she has someone else in mind. If the girl is like 16-19 years old, she has a lot of choices because most boys are single at that age. They don't know really know what they want. Some women have unrealistic expectations. They want some guys they can never get. It can take them awhile for them to establish their proper expectations.

Also you can expect curve balls. If you do succeed in dating her, she might all in a sudden decide she just wants to be a "friend", and then maybe she will change her mind again a few days later and maybe not. Some girls play really mean mind games.

When you go to college, it gets worse. Since people live in the dorms, you may face tough competitions for the first time. One of my college school mate lost his girlfriend to some guy, but the frustrating thing is he knows the other guy is a big playboy. First of all he is bisexual strangely, and he just wants to sleep with women and dump them shortly, which was exactly what happened to his girlfriend. His girl friend wants him back, but he doesn't know if he can trust her again. Things like this can really mess up your relationship. You always need to expect the unexpected.

Anyway, remember this. You miss 100% of the chances you don't take.

Cool. I need some more advice from a girl's viewpoint, like Xev. Xev? Sweetheart, wherefore art thou? :D

Xev's right here, armed to the teeth with her handguns and flamethrower, don't you worry about a thing now....


I could theoretically make first move, but does it mean that it is over if I blow it in the first round? How do I know if I blew it in the first move?

Depends. You could arrange a sort of friendly-date sort of thing. One of those little excursions that are sort of a date, sort of just friends doing something together.....

And do that a couple of times before intensifying things. You can also do the little courtship rituals, and gauge her reaction this way.

At least, that's what I'd advise. Just make sure you're on the level with each other - in other words, don't try to get her into the sack at the end of a date that was supposed to be between friends. Confusing as hell.

(Oh yeah, and avoid Chosen's advice. No offense Chosen, but it don't work on nerdy-intellectual type girls - if I and my acquaintances are any judge - which I think they are)

Xev, one small complication. We are both stuck in a science camp. In the middle of nowhere. I am 2 years older than her. Any modified advice? (I'm working on it, still yet to make big play)

Zero:

So, you're basically saying that you can't invite her to do anything special, just the two of you?

I might ask her for a walk (seriously, 1 hour to the nearest supermarket), but I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere. How do I make the best of this?

Originally posted by Xev
(Oh yeah, and avoid Chosen's advice. No offense Chosen, but it don't work on nerdy-intellectual type girls - if I and my acquaintances are any judge - which I think they are)

Avoid my advice? Zero, if you did read my threads...

there is not *ONE* rebuttal against my advice.

All you will see are baseless claims such as this stating...

Chosen's advice doesn't work.
That advice is idiotic.
That advice won't work.
Chosen is wrong.

There is no SUPPORTING EVIDENCE against my advice, PERIOD. I have asked MANY MANY TIMES for the reasons against it....and what do they do? They don't answer me.

This is laughable, at best Xev.

Are you saying women aren't attracted to confident males? Men that make them feel comfortable? Know how to make them laugh? Creating the right sexual chemistry?

Pleeeaassseeee, spare me the bullshit ok? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ~The_Chosen~

There is no SUPPORTING EVIDENCE against my advice, PERIOD.
That's because your advice had no supporting evidence. There is no need for evidence in refuting something which has no evidence of its own.

Originally posted by Zero
I might ask her for a walk (seriously, 1 hour to the nearest supermarket), but I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere. How do I make the best of this?

Don't ask for a walk, trust me. What sounds more confident?
Would you please talk a walk with me?
Let's go take a walk and have some fun.

You indirectly *tell* her to go with you, but never do it in a rude manner.

You're stuck in the middle of nowhere...don't panic and stress, keep your cool and confidence. Don't fear too much, it leads to weakness.

Follow a simple 3 second rule, act (don't think) in 3 seconds all the time. Of course there are exceptions to this when you are in deep conversation, use your common sense with the advice, there is modifying - it is not an absolute. Think about it. Thinking too much and not acting creates hestition and girls don't like guys that aren't confident and hestitate too much. Spontaneity is important, it shows you are always a fun guy, not boring and predictable.

Women obviously want a man with these most important traits:
confidence
humour
smile
well groomed / good looks
ability to create an emotional connection / a feeling of romance

In addition to that:
being patient
being persistent
being comfortable just going up and talking to a new woman
finding opportunities in situations where you before did not believe there would be
being sensitive to how she feels/responds and modifying your approach accordingly
knowing how to talk to a woman to build more rapport with her
knowing how to talk to a woman to make her start thinking in romantic directions

Having mastered all of the above, these will add the final touch:
mirror her physically
notice her trance words, remember and use them
rephrase everything she says and feed it back to her
anchor all good feelings
don't argue with her, be very understanding, deeply understanding - this can help create an immense rapport
use presuppositions to direct her actions
have and keep good eye contact - also helps to create an immense rapport
touch her
always start with the cutest girl around ;)

If you want me to elaborate and give you reasons and situations/experiences on any of those, feel free to ask ;)

As for the conversation
The following comes in handy, if truly NOTHING comes to mind after having applied the 3s rule :(. It is of course more recommended, that you think this all through before having approached, just try to limit your thinking to...preferably no more than 3 seconds :D The more you wait, the bigger chances there are that she'll leave (hey it's boring! nothing to talk about!), someone else will join her for a conversation, you start sweating and eventually chicken out, circumstances change etc. Evolve and adapt, most of all IMPROVE!

Ask some kind of OPEN ENDED question (it will normally begin with the word 'what').
Have at least one other OPEN ENDED follow up question, preferably more than one, to defend you against stalling.
By the time you've reached this stage. providing your questions were interesting enough, you are "in conversation" ;)

Before point 1 above, you are a stranger (you know about her from before, so it'll be easy). At point 2 she's still wary, but talking. By the time you've hit point 3 - she will have more or less accepted you and seem to drop her barriers a lot. All in a couple of minutes. :cool:

To continue. If the girl is a talker, paraphrase her and ask intelligent questions. Then ask some cheeky questions, maybe joke on her (yes make fun of her! she's *just* a woman! do not put her higher than you, never on that pedestal woman!! :D) and get some of your own stuff in. If she's a listener, you'd better have something ready to talk about (or you're gonna CRASH and BURN) - a tale or two about your interesting and humorous exploits that moves gently from being innocent into being more and more risqué. If you notice her body language (especially the eyes), you can tell if she starts to feel uncomfortable, irritated, or bothered, modify what you are saying and don't be rude!

Originally posted by Adam

That's because your advice had no supporting evidence. There is no need for evidence in refuting something which has no evidence of its own.

Ugh, why don't you apply that to youselves, all of you that criticize?

Your advice doesn't have jack supporting evidence either. They don't *research* and *experiment* on women. I hope you see this Zero.

Plus my advice is supported by Casanova, Don Juan - Real people btw.

Read up on Giovanni Casanova and how good of a "charmer" he was.

You still don't see the light Adam, you are blind.

And that would be your well-supported-by-evidence advice?

Originally posted by Adam
And that would be your well-supported-by-evidence advice?

No that's support for my advice. Not actually *scientific geeky* evidence.

It's obvious, women are attracted to confident, fun, etc. type of males.

It's common sense.

So what you're saying is, there's no "scientific geeky" evidence to support this stuff, only your own opinions...

Originally posted by Adam
So what you're saying is, there's no "scientific geeky" evidence to support this stuff, only your own opinions...

Not *just* my opinions, but the opinions of many. The point is, it works.

The same standards apply to your advice also Adam, only your opinions, right?

Let's settle this.

Adam, is a woman attracted to confidence?
Adam, do women like humorous guys?
Adam, do women like desperate guys?

Simple 3 questions, now answer them.

Zero:

Firstoff, my apologies for this semi-hijack:

Chosen, I'm not saying it's bad advise per se. But it's not truely applicable to the situation.

I think Zero knows best what Zero wants, and I don't think that Zero is interested in simply screwing the lady (http://www.sciforums.com/f22/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8451&pagenumber=2).

Forgive me if I misjudge, Zero, but that seems to be how you feel. Knowing this of Zero's intentions, and knowing what I feel, and what my fellow geeks feel, I advised against his taking such advise. Don't take it personally, Chosen, I did not mean it to be personal.

However, I may have read Zero wrong.

So I modify my advise re: Chosen's advise: Zero, if you *are* simply looking to get laid, it might be the best way to go.

However, I don't think it would work on a geeky sort. You, Chosen, are not a geek. You don't know how we think.

Now then, if we could get back to the subject:


I might ask her for a walk (seriously, 1 hour to the nearest supermarket), but I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere. How do I make the best of this?

A walk is nice. What about a hike in the woods?

(Okay, so I'm biased - I love hiking)

But seriously, a hike is good. It gives you a chance to get to know each other.

Originally posted by Xev
Chosen, I'm not saying it's bad advise per se. But it's not truely applicable to the situation.

How so? Elaborate? Zero shouldn't be confident? He shouldn't be funny? What? Give me reasons.


I think Zero knows best what Zero wants, and I don't think that Zero is interested in simply screwing the lady (http://www.sciforums.com/f22/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8451&pagenumber=2).

Forgive me if I misjudge, Zero, but that seems to be how you feel. Knowing this of Zero's intentions, and knowing what I feel, and what my fellow geeks feel, I advised against his taking such advise. Don't take it personally, Chosen, I did not mean it to be personal.

Of course, agreed. Zero knows what he wants.


However, I may have read Zero wrong.

So I modify my advise re: Chosen's advise: Zero, if you *are* simply looking to get laid, it might be the best way to go.

errr...it's for creating attraction, if you create good rapport, understanding, and attraction, getting laid is a chooseable result, you don't have to aim for that *only* - there's more to life than just sex.


However, I don't think it would work on a geeky sort. You, Chosen, are not a geek. You don't know how we think.

I am part geek, but not a true geek like you :D

But how so? Geeks aren't attracted to men that understand them and know how to strike a good convo?

Explain, don't *just* make a claim.


A walk is nice. What about a hike in the woods?

(Okay, so I'm biased - I love hiking)

But seriously, a hike is good. It gives you a chance to get to know each other.

Who said taking a walk won't get him a chance to know her?

The activity matters little, it's his ability to have a smooth and good conversation with the lady. His ability to create rapport and ability to remain confident and not scared of the woman.

My advice works for creating attraction - the main goal.

Getting laid is a bonus result, if the attraction works and is flourishing.

I'll clarify for the hundredth time.

I am NOT looking for sex, read my posts carefully (inckluded in URL by Xev), I am looking for companionship, rapport, emotional intimacy love etc etc etc.

A long term relationship that will bring back some of the will to live for me.

And things have gone a bit off track. We were working on a project (things are REALLY intensive here) and she got so frustrated she snapped at me. I apologized later (it was a genuine one, I really felt bad) but you never know. I hope I don't sound like an idiot by begging for advice, but I value your advice here, whether it be good for me or not. It shows all aspects of the female psychology and brain structure.

I really want to pull this off. I will remember your advice thankfully whether things be successful or not.

Originally posted by Zero
And things have gone a bit off track. We were working on a project (things are REALLY intensive here) and she got so frustrated she snapped at me. I apologized later (it was a genuine one, I really felt bad) but you never know. I hope I don't sound like an idiot by begging for advice, but I value your advice here, whether it be good for me or not. It shows all aspects of the female psychology and brain structure.

If some people consider you an idiot for asking for advice, I am that idiot too because I always ask for advice. No one is a master.

Zero, try not to apologize too much. It is right to apologize when you accidentally punch her in the nose and cause a nosebleed. But don't apologize for *little* things. It shows supplication. Like say, she hits you, and you apologize for getting in her way.

Like a chump would say this, "I'm sorry that I'm so boring." Something like that. Don't do that kind of stuff...men are strong not weak dependant, desperate, supplicating type of boys.

Apologize only when it is the complete opportune and sincere time to do so.


I really want to pull this off. I will remember your advice thankfully whether things be successful or not.

Remember, all women respond to certain things. Then figure what these things are. I already laid out some...confidence, humour, etc.

Whatever you do, don't be too strong or too weak. Modify, evolve, and improve.

That's the best advice anyone can give you and me also :D Goodluck man, AzN pride!! :p

Zero: Thanks for the clarification. Chosen, now that Zero has clarified this for the bizillionth time, could you please just go start a fight somwhere else? Thanks.

Now, okay. I don't think that really throws things off. *Shrugs* People get tense.


And things have gone a bit off track. We were working on a project (things are REALLY intensive here) and she got so frustrated she snapped at me. I apologized later (it was a genuine one, I really felt bad) but you never know. I hope I don't sound like an idiot by begging for advice, but I value your advice here, whether it be good for me or not. It shows all aspects of the female psychology and brain structure.

First, be yourself. If you're looking for something longterm, the best advice is to be as you really are, not to wear any sort of mask. Don't modify your behaviour - either to be what she wants or to be what you think she wants - or even what you want to be.

If you aren't naturally the type to crack jokes, don't. If you aren't naturally the macho type, don't aim for it.

I mean, dressing better than you normally would is one thing, trying to be sombody else is another.

Secondly, don't wrap too much of your emotions, self-esteem, whatever, in this. Be aware of the possibility of failure, and don't hang too much on the success of this endeavor.

Third, stay cool. There are plenty of fish in the sea, even if you do fail.

Fourth, she might not be interested in a relationship AT ALL. First, she's at near college age, and might want to be - keeping her options open. So be prepared.

Fifth, good luck! And keep us posted.

Originally posted by ~The_Chosen~
AzN pride!! :p [/B]

Did you get that term from battlenet? AZN's have small penises. The last thing you guys want to talk about is sex.

Zero:

You sound like a nice guy. If you use your common sense and be honest you will be fine.

I think hardest question in dating to answer is "How should you act if there is competition?" That is something I still struggle with even today.

Originally posted by Xev
Zero: Thanks for the clarification. Chosen, now that Zero has clarified this for the bizillionth time, could you please just go start a fight somwhere else? Thanks.

Fight? There's a fight here? :D


First, be yourself.

If you are happy with who you are, then by all means, be yourself. But if you want to become better, improve!


If you're looking for something longterm, the best advice is to be as you really are, not to wear any sort of mask. Don't modify your behaviour - either to be what she wants or to be what you think she wants - or even what you want to be.

Reader, if you aren't a "shy guy" you don't need to continue reading.

If she does have high interest in you - tell her what you want in a girl, give lots of details. Watch her turn into *that* person overnight!! :D This will only occur if she really digs you.

But anyway...if you have a bad habit (like smoking, and she doesn't like it) get rid of it, bad breath? get rid of it. As for modifying your behavior, do so seeking improvement. If you have a disrespectful jerk-like behavior, you best change it if you want a relationship. If you have a nice-guy desperate, needy, type of behavior, lose it if you are hoping for any high levels of attraction. If you are shy, gain some confidence! Think about it, what sort of a person are YOU? If you are not confident in yourself, you can MAKE yourself confident. NOBODY ELSE CAN MAKE YOU CONFIDENT. YOU MUST DO IT ON YOUR OWN. When you try to do it, you have already started to higher self-esteem and self-worth.

If *yourself* is thinking "I'm too shy, I can't do anything right." You are thinking negative and you *need* to think POSITIVE. Remember, you don't get much out of thinking negativitely.

To gauge your confidence, ask yourself these questions:

Do I believe I deserve and demand respect from people?

Do I believe I am entitled to deserve success in life?

Do I believe I can handle anything that comes my way, no matter how discouraging?

Answer YES to all of them, if you don't, you aren't confident.

Enthusiasm - don't be shy

The best way to make yourself stand out is to show Extra Enthusiasm in common, boring situations.

Why you say? Well, because it puts you on the spot and it draws in positive energy to your appearance. It shows you are a fun-loving guy and that you're fun...which makes you RARE! :D It's very easy and most men take this skill for granted because they act all coy or mute.

The next time you're with a woman... show LOTS! of enthusiasm to whatever your situation is.

Example: if you're just sitting, drinking around at the bar, show extra enthusiasm by being excited to order your next drink. Or get excited about the game on the TV and then up the tempo by adding a little sexual wit to normal, boring conversations.

This skill makes you the center of attention, which equals more potential interest in you. If someone calls your bluff and gives you negative feedback...call them back by upping the enthusiasm and putting them back in line by speaking up about their lack of interest.

This skill can get you very far because it's so simple yet most guys don't do it. Just remember not to overdue it. Just the right amount of Enthusiasm at the right time.

Women respond positively to enthusiatic men.

Switch your viewpoint, remember that girl that was never blue and depressed? Always happy, smiling, enthusiastic? Didn't you think she was attractive, pretty, and different? Did you think you could ever get bored with such a girl?


If you aren't naturally the type to crack jokes, don't. If you aren't naturally the macho type, don't aim for it.

Joking is one of the best types of communication with women. Anyone can crack jokes, if you think "it's who I am, I can't crack jokes" then you have a bad mindset and viewpoint. No one is born as someone who can't crack jokes - you learn how to, and the more you do it, the better you become at it - just like anything else.

Do you think Michael Jordan would've have gotten where he was if he thought, "It's just not me to be a basketball player." NO!! he believed in himself and believed in success. You must always have a positive outlook, saying, "I'm not a natural joker," isn't good. Why? With such a statement, do you think you can get anywhere? You are limiting your potential by accepting a false view - the view that you can't improve, you are predestined to be this and that - hell no, even though I believe in God, you are here to create your own destiny. No one is a natural nice-guy or casanova. I mean, you're born with a natural desperation in you? BULLSHIT! If you start thinking like that, you start believing that, then that's you. Meanwhile if you think confident, you know what the results are.


I mean, dressing better than you normally would is one thing, trying to be sombody else is another.

I agree with this statement. :)


Secondly, don't wrap too much of your emotions, self-esteem, whatever, in this. Be aware of the possibility of failure, and don't hang too much on the success of this endeavor.

Assume the best, prepare for the worst, keep that in mind.


Third, stay cool. There are plenty of fish in the sea, even if you do fail.

Yep.


Fourth, she might not be interested in a relationship AT ALL. First, she's at near college age, and might want to be - keeping her options open. So be prepared.

Fifth, good luck! And keep us posted.

True true, don't depend on luck too much, it's ALL YOU ;)

Sidenote: Most likely if she tells you she doesn't want a relationship, you probably did something wrong or she wasn't plain attracted, Xev's case could be true also.

But anyway, what I write isn't for any one person. It's for whoever thinks they need the advice. If you don't, that's great! ;)

Originally posted by Joeman


Did you get that term from battlenet? AZN's have small penises. The last thing you guys want to talk about is sex.

Azn is slang for Asian, you know that though. There are azn artists out there, that compose music, ever heard of aznavenue.com? Hmmm...AzN's rule!!

Yea, I'll admit that AzN's do have small penis, the average Asian is around 5 inches?

If you're 5 inches or larger then you're basically good, women don't care about size as much as sex technique, you must know how to "fill" them up, it's what you do with the tool that counts. The most sensitive spots are within 1 inch of the vagina, the g-spot is around 2-3 inches in (but they don't exist in ALL women...sadly yes it's true :() But I think all women have a "deep spot" which is about 3-4 inches in.

Joeman, you do realize the size stuff is a "masculine" thing right? Guys make the biggest deal out of them, guys like you, are you sexually insecure or something..? :D


You sound like a nice guy. If you use your common sense and be honest you will be fine.

That's the best advice you can give him Joeman? I thought you were madly experienced, I'm the rookie remember? Anyone can give the advice you just gave.

And Zero isn't a nice guy...he's a man!! :cool:


I think hardest question in dating to answer is "How should you act if there is competition?" That is something I still struggle with even today.

Yah, I hate competition, that's the whole reason I seek improvement.

If others say, "it's no competition with women" - sorry but the truth is, for any hot girl, there will always be competition.

She won't like you for who you are if you are needy and etc. She will pick the better mate if his "deal" beats yours (at the attraction stage). Hot girls get approached all the time, think of it like Ivy League Colleges, they get lots of "approaches" as a result they till have high standards and choose the "best or most potential mate" within the competition.

Same goes for men.

...Chosen, you are not helping at all. Your advice would only work for some airbrained makeup-ey stupid dolled girls who come by a dime a dozen. I am talkign about this girl who has the most amazign mind ever. She is probably in the top 1% in the state and possibly the nation. I don't know if she is hot or not, but you know how all girls look hot when you are ... caught, shall I say?

So Chosen, your advice is useless to someoen in my situation. She is waaaaaay too smart for that. You should also raise your targets toward intelligent women. I do not care if they are not hot, in the long run you won't even care how hot they are.

I have often heard that a relationship works out best when the pair are also best friends as well as lovers. Ponder on the validity of that statement.

For the last time, I am NOT looking for sex. I might not be a nice guy, I might be the most fucking rotten retard around, but I feel I can keep up with most females in intelligent discussions (I am musical, I read tons, I could make the honor roll with my eyes closed even if I had to drop my HIGHEST grade, etc etc and I am also scientifically literate).

i would suggest you not whomp her with your big penis :D

and by the way, penis size does count. we only say it doesn't to make you guys feel better. if it's really small then you have to make magic with your fingers so she doesn't notice and at some point she won't care because of those darned emotions.

why don't you just try being her friend? all four of my husbands where my friends first.

p.s. obviously you're risking a lot by getting advice from me :cool:

Originally posted by Zero
...Chosen, you are not helping at all. Your advice would only work for some airbrained makeup-ey stupid dolled girls who come by a dime a dozen. I am talkign about this girl who has the most amazign mind ever. She is probably in the top 1% in the state and possibly the nation. I don't know if she is hot or not, but you know how all girls look hot when you are ... caught, shall I say?

Not helping, how? Explain.


So Chosen, your advice is useless to someoen in my situation. She is waaaaaay too smart for that. You should also raise your targets toward intelligent women. I do not care if they are not hot, in the long run you won't even care how hot they are.

Useless? Really? Explain. She's isn't attracted to enthusiastic, confident, understanding, men?

What? She won't "fall" for that? Why not?

Ok, it works on most women, they all want non-desperate males. I mean, look at the actual advice I give you, you do realized how detailed it is.

Do you disagree with my 3 second rule? If so, why? How about the open-ended question advice? If so, why?


I have often heard that a relationship works out best when the pair are also best friends as well as lovers. Ponder on the validity of that statement.

I said love is like a friendship on fire. In fact friendship is an important aspect of a long term relationship.

I pondered about that a long time ago.


For the last time, I am NOT looking for sex. I might not be a nice guy, I might be the most fucking rotten retard around, but I feel I can keep up with most females in intelligent discussions (I am musical, I read tons, I could make the honor roll with my eyes closed even if I had to drop my HIGHEST grade, etc etc and I am also scientifically literate).

Yes, but why are you looking at it so objectively? You do realize if you are rejecting ALL my advice without reasons, you are socially brainwashed, because you are not *even* considering my advice and already saying it doesn't work.

But care to explain why?

like I said, it's specifically for attraction and NOT *just* sex. People have different goals, most guys want to get the women attracted for sex.

You on the other hand, want to get women attracted for relationship reasons.

If you can't attract her, don't hope to have a relationship with her, correct?

It's so funny when people say women do not fall for it, women can't help but become attracted to REAL MEN. So yes, they fall for REAL MEN all the damn time, in droves.

I mean, maybe all the women I have been with are ALL stupid? Right? I mean come on, it's only around 50 of them...hahaha I'm so unfortunate to get all stupid women...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by harrykarry
i would suggest you not whomp her with your big penis :D

and by the way, penis size does count. we only say it doesn't to make you guys feel better. if it's really small then you have to make magic with your fingers so she doesn't notice and at some point she won't care because of those darned emotions.

Yes, it does, but ask any women, what's more important *if* they had sex already.

Most will say sexual technique is alot more important than size. Like I said, anyone with over 5 inches is good. And under 9 inches, too big isn't good either.

I mean, how old are you? Is size everything? You sure? What about lasting? Be able to get her to her multiple orgasm highs...dick size is important over all those sexual techniques?


why don't you just try being her friend? all four of my husbands where my friends first.

Ahhh, the bad advice, let's just be friends. Friends don't get anything, are you attracted to your male friends?

Love and LTR's are special kinds of friendships. But being friends in general won't cut it. You ask her out, she'll drop you saying, "I don't want to ruin our good friendship --or-- let's just be friends."

Happened to me lots of times. Dont' let her know you *just* want to be friends, you want to be more than friends.


p.s. obviously you're risking a lot by getting advice from me :cool:

Yes, he is or any man is.

Since when was love scientific???

And I tell you, sex is nto what I am looking for. Sex is good only in a short term relationship. I am looking for a long term one.

Zero, Chosen enjoys picking these little disputes. It feeds his ego in some perverse way.

You are correct. Barbie doll girls will fall for that sort of shit. It might be an easy way into the pants of an intelligent woman.

But it is no way to pursue an actual relationship with an intelligent women.

An intelligent woman, if she is looking for something long term, will not be into being effectively lied to.


I have often heard that a relationship works out best when the pair are also best friends as well as lovers. Ponder on the validity of that statement.

Damn straight.

Look Zero, you haven't submitted a picture, so I dunno if you're cute. I'm betting you are. You can obviously hold your own here on sciforums, intellectually speaking. You also have an interest in music - and the arts are something that a lot of us science types are prone to neglect.

In short, you're a babe. You've got a hell of a whole lot going for you.

Now if you will excuse me, I have words with The Chosen.

Chosen:

Yes, it does, but ask any women, what's more important *if* they had sex already.

Given that harrykarry stated her opinion as a woman, asking her to ask a woman is rather pointless, don't you think?

Unless you're implying she's a virgin, which is a *tad* unlikely, as she has been married four times......


Ahhh, the bad advice, let's just be friends. Friends don't get anything, are you attracted to your male friends?

I am, sexually if not romantically. You have a lot to learn, boy.

And yes, the sort of women you consort with are nothing like the woman Zero describes.

Originally posted by Zero
And I tell you, sex is nto what I am looking for. Sex is good only in a short term relationship. I am looking for a long term one.

Sex is the best in a LTR and *just* good in a STR. If you find a woman attractive, you will like her sexually in at least some way. In no way am I saying *everything is just sex*...no no no.

Anyway, why are you interpreting my advice as only possible in terms of sex? Why don't you open your mind and realize you can build a good relationship off that advice also?

Good job also Zero, like the rest, you avoided to answer my questions directly. You just made a baseless claim.

Either you seriously open your mind, or be brainwashed forever. You aren't even considering my detailed advice and just blowing it off. Compare what I say to what others have given you, what sounds like more *sense* to you, what clicks more? Which is more precise and detailed instead of *just* little statements??


Originally posted by Xev
Zero, Chosen enjoys picking these little disputes. It feeds his ego in some perverse way.

Baseless. How is offering advice feeding my ego in "some perverse way"?


You are correct. Barbie doll girls will fall for that sort of shit. It might be an easy way into the pants of an intelligent woman.

And now you degrade my advice by misinterpreting it as *only* a means to get into the pants of another woman.

This is laughable. You give no reasons once again.


But it is no way to pursue an actual relationship with an intelligent women.

How so? What the heck are the reasons? You mean to say, be desperate and hesitant? That's the actual way to pursue an "actual relationship with an intelligent women"?

If you don't answer my questions, like usual then...:rolleyes:


An intelligent woman, if she is looking for something long term, will not be into being effectively lied to.

*yawns* the same ole bullshit again, so you are blowing off my advice and saying that it is "no way to pursue an actual relationship with an intelligent women." :rolleyes: Lack of reasons once again.

Lied to? What are you babbling about now? You make claims and you don't back it up Xev.

This is really pathetic.

Tactics of disregarding Chosen's advice:
Only stupid women fall for it (if you're saying that, then practically all women are stupid :))
Chosen is just trying to feed his own ego. (You're just perceiving me as such :rolleyes:)
It is idiotic!! (Reasons?)
That advice isn't good for builing a strong and loving relationship, so disregard it. (Reasons?)
*the rest are baseless claims*

Zero, you act as if I have never dated an intelligent woman. Woman respond to REAL MEN, period.

Give me your reasons to why it isn't helping, you can't now can you? It's not my lost if you blow off the advice, it's because you are brainwashed.


Given that harrykarry stated her opinion as a woman, asking her to ask a woman is rather pointless, don't you think?

Unless you're implying she's a virgin, which is a *tad* unlikely, as she has been married four times......

You want to see a survey done on 100 women? And no, I'm not implying she is a virgin, I made that mistake with *strgyrl* and you sure bet I won't do it again.

Pointless? Sounds like some people need to see a survey. What's your opinion?

Size or sexual technique?


I am, sexually if not romantically. You have a lot to learn, boy.

And yes, the sort of women you consort with are nothing like the woman Zero describes.

Sure there, how do you even know that for sure? LOL

Anyway, back to topic! :D

Doc Love (http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove_60/80_relationship_expert.html)

Check him out, read and heed his advice. His articles are also at the DJ site.

Myths
by Doc Love

Okay. I'll make it real simple for you. Easy as 1, 2, 3. Here are three of the biggest misconceptions men have about approaching women:

1. "I can raise any woman's Interest Level [degree of love] in me by complimenting her."

Yes, this thinking has a certain (false) logic to it. Complimenting women sure seems to work in the movies and on television. A handsome lawyer tells Ally McBeal how smart and beautiful she is, and she swoons and wants to make babies with him. And all the girls in the X-rated videos sure seem to respond well to compliments. Extra well. The only problem is that these are not real-life situations. In real life, with real women, laying on the compliments only hurts your cause. It's anti-Challenge.

2. "I can raise any woman's Interest Level in me by boasting about myself."

Same thing with boasting. It's certainly true that women respond quite favorably to wealthy, powerful and successful men. So it seems logical that it would be helpful to tell a woman things about yourself that would make her think of you as someone who's a major league player.

But no matter how you play it, boasting only makes a woman feel as if you're trying to impress her. And the operative word here is trying. Trying is the opposite of Challenge [allowing the woman to chase you]. A real heavyweight kind of a guy doesn't have to try. He emanates confidence. It's far better to let her work a little to discover what an amazing guy you are. To you Psych majors: keep it to yourself.

3. "If I persistently demonstrate to the woman whom I'm courting how high my Interest Level in her is, it will raise her Interest Level in me."

This one's the real killer. Once again, media brainwashing is a major factor in perpetuating this myth. How many love stories have you seen or read where the plot line goes like this: Handsome guy likes beautiful girl, but girl isn't interested in guy. Guy is determined to do whatever it takes to win girl over. After guy begs, jumps through a dozen hoops and sacrifices himself for her, girl finally realizes: "Oh gosh, I love him!" As my cousin "Fast Eddie" Love would say, "Puke!"

Zero, blow it off and stay brainwashed for all I care. Live your lie, be baseless, have no reasons.

Either you open your mind, or stay closed-minded. :)

Peace

Describe "REAL MAN" for me. Sounds way too much like the same ol' male stereotype, big puffed pectoral muscles, bulging biceps, adamantite abs, etc etc with short tempers, empty heads, and all that good sh!t. Impressed, Chosen.

Xev, I'm not cute. I am more like the plain lookin' guy with the enduring face. Got a fair number of 'zit scars' too. I look...like a piece of dusty granite, ugly but enduring. grr. I wish I were cute.

I'm a babe?! Gaaaahh!!!!!!!!! :eek: *looks at mirror in horror* *passes out*

Zero: Looks are secondary to intellect for me. You're a babe.

Chosen: For one who has made such baseless comments re: marriage, you are one to talk about brainwashing.
Basically, kid, you want to see brainwashing? Social conditioning? Slave morality?

Take a look in the mirror.


And now you degrade my advice by misinterpreting it as *only* a means to get into the pants of another woman.

Chosen, if you can't see that pretending to be somone you are not for a limited time is *only* a means to get into somone's pants, you are much stupider than even I had thought.


Zero, you act as if I have never dated an intelligent woman. Woman respond to REAL MEN, period.

What, ones with an XY chromosome? Most women do, yeah....


Lied to? What are you babbling about now? You make claims and you don't back it up Xev.

If pretending to be something you aren't is not lying, I don't know what is.


This is really pathetic.

Agreed. Your last post was even more pathetic than the time you told me not to invalidate your claim by using logic.

So I'm just going to play with you a little more before ignoring you.


Tactics of disregarding Chosen's advice:

You forgot the "Rolling on the floor laughing hysterically for a good five minutes" and "wondering where the hell some little kid* gets off telling a woman what women want".

*Who is, incidentally, less experienced with women than I.

Fweee!! *ref whistle*

Hey, wait, wait, WAIT!!! Break it up you two. Take it outside!

I appreciate advice from both guy and girl perspectives on the subject of this field of psychology. But, I do not find Chosen's advice directly useful. It is, however, indirectly useful in that I can better understand my competitors when I go dating. So, I am forced to give Chosen some credit. Know thy enemy, and know thy objective. Cool. So thank you Xev and Chosen.

But do keep the advice going. Oh boy!! My mind is a babe to an intelligent woman!! Woohoo!! Hey Xev, which state do you live in if you are in teh US at all? Wanna date? If this one does not work out? And have you uploaded pictures of yourself? I'd like very much to see them.

Originally posted by Xev
Chosen: For one who has made such baseless comments re: marriage, you are one to talk about brainwashing.
Basically, kid, you want to see brainwashing? Social conditioning? Slave morality?

Take a look in the mirror.

Kid? You got some balls Xev. Read the marriage thread, all I mentioned was "my Catholic baskground formed a good understanding of marriage for me."

Then people scream, ahh! You're brainwashed!! The "evil" religious word "Catholic" has been screamed out!! There is no proof of brainwashing on that thread and you know it.

Show me where I lack an open-mind and consideration of others' ideas?


Chosen, if you can't see that pretending to be somone you are not for a limited time is *only* a means to get into somone's pants, you are much stupider than even I had thought.

How is it pretending to be someone you are not if you are improving?

Me stupid? You are the idiot that lacks an open-mind :)


If pretending to be something you aren't is not lying, I don't know what is.

Gee, if someone is lacking serious confidence and you tell him to gain some confidence and encourage him not to be a pussy, you think that he is "pretending to be something he isn't"

That kind of logic is stupid, basically you are gonna tell that guy to remain what "he supposedly is" for the rest of his life - a pussy.

No improvement and no hope, great :cool:

Why don't you apply the dating advice to anything else? What if you don't know how to swim, that is "yourself" and you ask for advice on how to swim, are you pretending to be someone else here?


Agreed. Your last post was even more pathetic than the time you told me not to invalidate your claim by using logic.

Why don't you do so now? And Xev, this is pathetic, I alreadly explained myself in that thread.


So I'm just going to play with you a little more before ignoring you.

Why "play" aronnd with me woman? Just directly ignore me already and get it over with.

Tell you whole damn gang to ignore me too. I don't like fools that debate baselessly. Good job.


You forgot the "Rolling on the floor laughing hysterically for a good five minutes" and "wondering where the hell some little kid* gets off telling a woman what women want".

*Who is, incidentally, less experienced with women than I.

Hahahahaha, you can believe whatever you want Xev. :)

I'll quote Doc Love on this, for you Zero (in hopes you would actually open your mind) and for all others that aren't close-minded.

"Why is it perfectly fine in our society for women to have their stacks and stacks of magazines that feature countless articles with titles like "Seven Ways to Make Him Fall Hopelessly in Love with You" or " The Five Secrets to Capturing His Heart"? Yet when men seek to gain a bit of personal empowerment in relationships they're labeled as game playing manipulators!"

Gee, lots of women must be pretending to be someone they are not...:rolleyes:

I'm calling you on your bullshit Xev.

Show me where I am wrong about stating what women want? YOU CAN'T, can you? :rolleyes:

BASELESS

That's who you are in this thread, pathetic.

Originally posted by Zero
Fweee!! *ref whistle*

Hey, wait, wait, WAIT!!! Break it up you two. Take it outside!

I hope she really ignores me. I don't want to put up with this kind of woman's bullshit.


I appreciate advice from both guy and girl perspectives on the subject of this field of psychology. But, I do not find Chosen's advice directly useful. It is, however, indirectly useful in that I can better understand my competitors when I go dating. So, I am forced to give Chosen some credit. Know thy enemy, and know thy objective. Cool. So thank you Xev and Chosen.

Zero, I'm curious? Why is it not directly useful here? Could you please answer that question? There are always competitors man, trust me.


But do keep the advice going. Oh boy!! My mind is a babe to an intelligent woman!! Woohoo!! Hey Xev, which state do you live in if you are in teh US at all? Wanna date? If this one does not work out? And have you uploaded pictures of yourself? I'd like very much to see them.

She never did upload pictures of herself...:p

But anyway, Zero, don't be brainwashed by society and the media. They want to strip men of their power and confidence. Look at the threads I gave you, especially with Doc Love's advice. I think you will be open-minded enough to not blow it off, and if you do, show reasonable causes to do so.

You do realize, once again, they all are making baseless claims against my advice :rolleyes:

Sad, really. :cool:

Originally posted by Zero
Describe "REAL MAN" for me. Sounds way too much like the same ol' male stereotype, big puffed pectoral muscles, bulging biceps, adamantite abs, etc etc with short tempers, empty heads, and all that good sh!t. Impressed, Chosen.

Real Men = men that aren't chumps, who know how to attract women, who know how to handle a women. Confidence males, humourous, the ones women want.

Sounds like that? Then society and the media has affected your thinking.

Empty heads? Short tempers? Did you read the advice with the bullets? You have to show understanding to women for a good relationship.

You do also notice, many fail to answer my direct questions. It's because the only way they can object to it is to make baseless claims.

Why the baseless claims? Because it works, period.

It's just like me telling you to "swing the golf club to drive the ball"

Then some would say: that's idiotic! The ball won't fly far!

Question: Reasons?

Answer: baseless claim.

Gee, you must be desperate to be making such long posts within the space of a few hours. Do you have a life? (no offense here)

Not directly useful in the sense that I am not looking for physical satisfaction. Indirectly useful in the sense that I get a glimpse in the psychology of some of the males I am competing with.

Know how to handle a woman? Wha? I never thought of "handling" a human being before. Maybe I am really a chump. Hm. Also, there is a difference between being confident and crossing the forbidden line that contains a person's dignity. There is also a line between being totally passive and knowing the fact that I am fundamentally a jerk and idiot, and that I must know it and make the best of it.

But your notion of "handling" women disturbs me. I do believe relationships are supposed to be on equal terms. Well, it is always educational to know the psychology of different people. To succeed, you must know how other people's minds work.

Baseless claims, eh? MAybe. Empirical evidence is mostly random in the arcane realm of love and relationships. I will not deny that your method works. But whether it works on the long run or it is an effective scheme to get inside a woman's pants is another question. From my experience (now I sound like an old man, ha ha) long term relationships do not work that way.

I am also mystified as to why you get angry. You give advice. I consider it and take some of it in in the form that I like. Advice does not equal command.

Originally posted by Zero
Gee, you must be desperate to be making such long posts within the space of a few hours. Do you have a life? (no offense here)

I type fast and at my workplace I'm an "admin" or I just sit on a desk and work on registration forms, etc.

It's easy and I always have free time to do whatever else I want.


Not directly useful in the sense that I am not looking for physical satisfaction. Indirectly useful in the sense that I get a glimpse in the psychology of some of the males I am competing with.

Not many males think like how I think, I can gurantee you that.


Know how to handle a woman? Wha? I never thought of "handling" a human being before. Maybe I am really a chump. Hm. Also, there is a difference between being confident and crossing the forbidden line that contains a person's dignity. There is also a line between being totally passive and knowing the fact that I am fundamentally a jerk and idiot, and that I must know it and make the best of it.

Yes, use your common sense when it comes to dating, don't come on too strong and don't come on too weak.


But your notion of "handling" women disturbs me. I do believe relationships are supposed to be on equal terms. Well, it is always educational to know the psychology of different people. To succeed, you must know how other people's minds work.

Handling is not meant as a deragotory term. It means you know how to take care of them and treat them.


Baseless claims, eh? MAybe. Empirical evidence is mostly random in the arcane realm of love and relationships. I will not deny that your method works. But whether it works on the long run or it is an effective scheme to get inside a woman's pants is another question. From my experience (now I sound like an old man, ha ha) long term relationships do not work that way.

Yes, LTR's do not work solely on attraction. My tip is for attraction so please understand. You must pass the attraction barrier to successfully start a relationship.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=137665#post137665

Go there, and read about "a special friendship in LTR's"


I am also mystified as to why you get angry. You give advice. I consider it and take some of it in in the form that I like. Advice does not equal command.

Yes, advice is advice and not command.

I don't get angry :)

I get agitated at people that make baseless claims, people that tell me I am wrong without valid evidence and reasons, etc., it's all over this thread.

ok chosen, i'll give you the "friend" thing is actually bad advice.

i knew that the minute i hit the "send" button.

love at first sight, instantaneous burn, is way better.

those four relationships that started with friendships didn't work because there was no passion. the one that has stuck is the one that started and is still the burn...

penis size (with staying power) beats technique but use what you got... i have a mean leg swivel in my own arsinol.

sometimes it's just magic with someone. keep looking until you find it or else you'll settle for the friendships (still good friends with all of them by the way....)

Great, now she's really pissed. We are working on a project with another person and our group is not doing well.

She's the competitive, ambitious type of nerdy girl who is extremely smart, and she kinda gives me the feeling she wants to do the whole damn project by herself. I messed up and she told me she "wanted to beat me to pulp". Cool, not that I give a single damn about personal insults (I've been verbally abused far more spicily than that), but the meaning behind it disturbs me.

Of course, it might be because she gets easily frustrated when things do not go her way. I've messed up, and she's messed up but why do I have to be the guilty one? Why does moi have to suffer?

Awesome. My chances look slim, but I haven't given up yet. We still laugh together often. The whole team (total 3 people) jokes and laughs easily. We are together when we feel good, but she gets pissy when things do not go well.

Xev, I need some more insight into female psychology at this point.

Zero:

Sorry luv, but cut your losses. She - actually sounds like she shares a bit of my obsession with power/control. Only she's got the psycho component to my bitch. *Smiles* But that's so totally out of line. You don't need the shit she's pulling.

The way you impress a woman like that is by preforming perfectly, and then she'll just use you and throw you away. Show some backbone.

NOW!!

Coolly remind her that you're at least her equal, if not her superiour. I wouldn't hold out much hope for the relationship, but if anything works, that would.

There is one other bit - which takes a bit more self analysis on my part. I have a neurotic, perfectionistic streak. Stems from my obsession with power, of course. I can see myself snapping like that under pressure.

The thing to do would be to ignore me. *Smiles* Or to remind me to cool down, but there are very few people I'd accept that from.

Show some backbone, let her know that she can't push you around.

Originally posted by harrykarry

penis size (with staying power) beats technique but use what you got... i have a mean leg swivel in my own arsinol.

Gotta love an honest woman!

Of course, I find that a woman's own private parts are also important. Some are basically loose and floppy. Yuck. Firm and tight is nice. Some have no motion or control in there at all. An ability to actually grip and move around a bit inside works wonders.

i agree that the bitchy type likes a man who doesn't cower and is strong enough to handle their shit (helps them feel in control). but why would you want to? you don't have that maryter thing going do you???? if so.... you're screwed.

adam, i'm sorry that penis stuff hit such a nerve:) it was mean of me to be so honest i know.... i deserved the backlash...

really only married twice in the eyes of the law.... four times in god's eyes...

No, didn't hit a nerve, I was saying thanks. :)

It's actually good to hear from honest people now and then, even about such things. So I figured I'd return the favour and add a counterpoint.

Would it be bad if I decided to stop taking shit from her? Beasue now that I think about it, I'm the one who should be pissed off. I will tell her that, fuck this relationship.

Would it be bad if I decided to stop taking shit from her?

No, it's what you should do. Stop taking shit from her. She's got no right to treat you that way.

well sweets it's a fine line. you can have a wonderful time with her IF she's manageable and that all depends on your confidence level.

the more confident you are, the better the whole situation is.

she doesn't sound like a dream though...

i would cool it, love yourself a lot, show her respect and maybe even some amusement... but don't give her anything else. make her come to you....

No longer taking shit from her. I haven't actually said it yet, but I've got this firmness that tells her something. She seems to be backing off now. But I have the feeling both of us will explode next.

One moment I hate her like hell, another moment I'm thinking the opposite. I wonder if that's a good sign.

Originally posted by Xev
You don't need the shit she's pulling.

Yep, don't need to supplicate to her or any of that bullshit...:)


The way you impress a woman like that is by preforming perfectly, and then she'll just use you and throw you away. Show some backbone.

Yah, show her you're not "another guy" she can play around with.


Coolly remind her that you're at least her equal, if not her superiour. I wouldn't hold out much hope for the relationship, but if anything works, that would.

Act as if you are superior to her always...most guys make the mistake of putting themselves at the mercy of women to be taken advantage of.

34: Be royal in your own fashion: act like a king to be treated like one.

Notice: your own


The thing to do would be to ignore me. *Smiles* Or to remind me to cool down, but there are very few people I'd accept that from.

Zero, here are some good lines to use. Use them at the opportune times.

There's nothing I can't handle.
When she is laughing at your jokes and she says, "You're funny...just too much *giggles*" Reply with a manly..."Too much for you to handle?" - She will take that as a challenge and it will create attraction.
You do know how to ruin a good moment *smile*
When you try to kiss her and she messes up...hahaha, it will make her more self-conscious of herself and she will start really respecting you.
You don't always get what you want.
If she thinks she must have everything her way, challenge her and watch the respect she has for you rise tenfold.
You're no fun. --or-- You're not a fun person to be around.
This will make her realize she's acting like a bitch. Walk away from her when you say that (it signifies you won't take shit from her and you don't like non-fun type of women). Tell her she needs to "loosen up" and all that. Don't be afraid to speak your mind.
You're so anal-retentive.
Of course, don't disrespectfully insult her or anything, if she does to you use this line. She will wonder, "Huh, what does he mean by that?"


Show some backbone, let her know that she can't push you around.

Hell fuckin YES!! Don't EVER let any woman push you around!!

*smiles* at Xev...;)


Originally posted by harrykarry
ok chosen, i'll give you the "friend" thing is actually bad advice.

i knew that the minute i hit the "send" button.

You're one of the very few and special women that agree and admit to that. :)


penis size (with staying power) beats technique but use what you got... i have a mean leg swivel in my own arsinol.

I'm standing by what I say and experienced with other women.

I don't care what the hell you say.

Technique

over

Size

Notice: staying power is a technique...;)

Sure he can be big, but what if he doesn't know how to stimulate you? He can't fuck you in a good rythm? He hurts you? Bores you?


sometimes it's just magic with someone. keep looking until you find it or else you'll settle for the friendships (still good friends with all of them by the way....)

It's never magic with anyone, don't depend on some imaginary "luck or magic" to make you successful with anything.

harrykarry, you are on the right track though, women love to "feel this magic" with another guy, to fall for him, "it just happened", right? ;) You both "just" fell in love magically...right?

Millionares don't rely on magic.

Same applies for women. It's just fools think it is a bad thing to seek errors and improve from them. Seducing is bad?!? Fools, you've been brainwashed! Women and men seduce each other all the damn time, but on non-conspicuous levels.

WHY do you think they are so few millionaires? So few REAL MEN?

Relations with women and dating are the most brainwashed issue I have ever encountered, it's sad really.

Zero:

No longer taking shit from her. I haven't actually said it yet, but I've got this firmness that tells her something. She seems to be backing off now. But I have the feeling both of us will explode next.

Good. Zero luv, ye have to show her that you cannot be pushed around. If she is not interested in you because of this, her loss.

My guess is that if you have any hope with the chick, it's by keeping yourself from being screwed over.


Yep, don't need to supplicate to her or any of that bullshit...

Damn straight. If Zero wishes to be ordered around like that, Zero can hire a friggin dominatrix. Otherwise, Zero should stand up for himself.


Act as if you are superior to her always...most guys make the mistake of putting themselves at the mercy of women to be taken advantage of.

I disagree here. I think you just need to keep your foot planted and show her that she can't push you around.

You don't need to act like her superiour, just make damn sure that she knows you're her equal.

Chosen:

Hell fuckin YES!! Don't EVER let any woman push you around!!

Damn straight.


*smiles* at Xev...

*Winks* at Chosen.

Welcome back.

Originally posted by Xev
I disagree here. I think you just need to keep your foot planted and show her that she can't push you around.

Well, I agree with you partially. Most women like to be "dominated." As in, guy acts to go here and there, most women don't like it when a guys goes.."So where should we go next? I'll go anywhere you want to go." Take the lead!

Of course, there is always a level of respect that must be maintained.


You don't need to act like her superiour, just make damn sure that she knows you're her equal.

For bitches, yes you do :) But when things start turning into a relationship, then you're truly equal, the superficial/impressions shit falls off.


*Winks* at Chosen.

Welcome back.

You actually give good advice Xev, most women I know give the worst counter-productive advice I have ever seen....;)

Chosen:

Well, I agree with you partially. Most women like to be "dominated." As in, guy acts to go here and there, most women don't like it when a guys goes.."So where should we go next? I'll go anywhere you want to go." Take the lead!

"Thou goest to women? Do not forget thy whip!"
-Freddy Nietzsche

*Smiles wickedly*

No no, women control relationships in different ways.

Have you ever talked to a girl who says "I don't care what movie we see" - but you know she wishes to see "Titanic" (or whatever the hell diCaprio is in nowadays) - and you also know that she will be sulky if you say "Great! Let's see the new action movie!"

It's a different type of control, but women are just as power hungry as men.


Of course, there is always a level of respect that must be maintained.

Or go beyond the power relation. That is when you know you have found somone special, when you can explore and/or go beyond the simple power dynamic of human interaction.


You actually give good advice Xev, most women I know give the worst counter-productive advice I have ever seen....

They would say to bring her flowers and crap? Likely. It might work. I think women's brains work something like

"A nice guy for a marriage, a arsehole for an affair"

Men, of course, will fuck anything that moves and seems to posess XX chromosomes. ;)

However, Chosen's girl sounds a little like me. I know how I might be if I did not know what I am - I am obsessed with power, perfectionist, I like to control my situations - so I think I give good advice here.

I think the way culture says men should woo is very different from that which actually gets results.

Originally posted by Xev
No no, women control relationships in different ways.

Have you ever talked to a girl who says "I don't care what movie we see" - but you know she wishes to see "Titanic" (or whatever the hell diCaprio is in nowadays) - and you also know that she will be sulky if you say "Great! Let's see the new action movie!"

Women love intuitive men. ;)


It's a different type of control, but women are just as power hungry as men.

Power to women = attention

Power to men = authority, dominance, money, strength, respect...:D


They would say to bring her flowers and crap? Likely. It might work. I think women's brains work something like

Yes, bring her flowers and write her a long sweet, sensitive poem detailing every feeling you have for her, wanting her back, saying sorry, how extremely beautiful she is...

Or be a nice guy and treat them like queens, so why is it that jerks get laid? but always fail in a relationship? So why is it the nice guys barely ever get laid, but always succeed in a relationship?

So why do real men get laid and succeed in relationships...? ;)


However, Chosen's girl sounds a little like me. I know how I might be if I did not know what I am - I am obsessed with power, perfectionist, I like to control my situations - so I think I give good advice here.

I have never found a like-minded women so far. The relationships that last the longest are the ones that harmonize.

What you just said in that paragraph describes me also...;)


I think the way culture says men should woo is very different from that which actually gets results.

Yes, and it's time that other guys realize that and snap out of their brainwashed states.

Chosen:

Women love intuitive men

True. But then ya'll start getting too damned intuitive.

Frankly, I'd rather have bamboo splints driven up my nails than listen to

"Don't jump!"
"I'm going to jump!"
"I'll have to jump after you!"
"Oh Jack!"

for however the hell long that movie lasted.


Power to women = attention

Power to men = authority, dominance, money, strength, respect...

This is very close to true, in the general sense. A woman seeks to monopolize a small amount of resources, while a man seeks a broad grasp over a large territory.

Of course, my need for power takes an entirely different form - need to control myself.


Or be a nice guy and treat them like queens, so why is it that jerks get laid? but always fail in a relationship? So why is it the nice guys barely ever get laid, but always succeed in a relationship?

I think a woman wants - evolutonary psychology speaking - a nice guy who will take care of her children, and a jerk to father her children. ;)

That is very epigrammic, but I think it is true.


So why do real men get laid and succeed in relationships...?

Do they now? I wouldn't know.


I have never found a like-minded women so far. The relationships that last the longest are the ones that harmonize.

D'oh! I meant Zero's girl.

This is true, however.


What you just said in that paragraph describes me also...

As I suspected. You are one of what Nietzsche called the masters - people who wish to control their situations, control others - people who can, to a degree, dominate situations well.

I do not know if you will make your own morality though. Perhaps this is best.


Yes, and it's time that other guys realize that and snap out of their brainwashed states.

*Shrugs*

As they wish. It is social brainwashing, even what you and I and your fellow Don Juans are discussing this is the result of mere social brainwashing.....

I wish to overcome. This is why I no longer play the game.

And, well, the thrill one finds in dominating others is a bad drug to start playing with, it only reinforces the distance one feels from other humans. And like all drugs, it is only a temporary fix.

Just formulate your own plausible, well-minded opinion...not that difficult..right?

You actually give good advice Xev, most women I know give the worst counter-productive advice I have ever seen....

hmmmm....

it makes perfect sense that i guy calling himself The Chosen would think that. besides being dominant (my favorite kind of guy by the way) are you also a firefighter?

that might be a good fit for you....

or maybe you could be the guy that talks people out of jumping off high buildings.

Originally posted by Zero
I'll clarify for the hundredth time.

I am NOT looking for sex, read my posts carefully (inckluded in URL by Xev), I am looking for companionship, rapport, emotional intimacy love etc etc etc.

A long term relationship that will bring back some of the will to live for me.

Haven't been around in a while. Seems like this thread is still playing the edge between discussion of relationship psychology and assuaging Zero's delicate self-esteem.

Zero, here's a starter: get rid of stupid s**t like "I have lost the will to live" from your thought patterns. Gothy ennui is out. At least quote Kafka or something.

When you say things like "I'm not looking for sex but companionship blah blah blah" you are obviously an adolescent with little understanding of sexual love. This is not familial love. You're not looking for a sister or just a friend. When you enter into a relationship of the type you are mooning about here, you're looking for sex. Your subconscious knows it, your genes know it, and everyone else here humoring you knows it, too. You list the litany of things above as if they were better than sex. Sex is a wonderful, great, powerful, dangerous thing, and it gets you high like nothing else. There is nothing inherently stupid or anti-intellectual about this high, or about sex that is shared between people in love (or at least on pretty friendly terms). You just don't know anything about it, so you're pretending it doesn't exist. I fell in love with my wife because of her personality and her looks and her mind and because of the sex. They are all parts of a whole. If she would have said no to the sex early on, like, let's wait for several months or marriage we wouldn't be married today. Is that shallow? We both have agreed on this point, that it is not, that sex is important to a relationship for adults.

Adults. Kids just screwing around leads to a lot of misery, and you are wise to not want to rush into it, but you will never understand the fullest depths of companionship love without sex. Sure, there's Platonic love, but that is rare between people with complementary sexual orientation. You list emotional intimacy, companionship, etc... which I don't think is indicative of a purely Platonic desire. Do you imagine yourselves holding hands, exchanging cute looks along with the witty banter? Then you're heading for sexual love. There's an element of Platonism in all succesful relationships, but Platonic love is only an ideal, as vaporous as Plato's Forms.

You have a crush, and it's puppy love. Real love and friendship is not a game, you don't scheme, and you don't mull it over with a bunch of strangers online. Look, dating can be fun at your age, going to the movies, talking, etc., but don't be in a hurry to lock yourself into a relationship. The probability is, she's the wrong person for you. A good number of the adults I know marry the wrong people. You're playing mind games now it seems like, and she's annoyed you. THAT's real friendship/love, when two people can piss each other off and keep at it. How long has this been going on now? Have you done anything together outside the science camp? What are you waiting for? Rejection? Yes. Rejection is good. Learns you. Invoke the spirit of the Samurai, who left themselves outside the field of battle, already dead. They had no fear. I don't mean you're in a battle, but if you act as if you're already rejected, then you will show no fear, and ye shall clinch victory.

If it seems like I'm talking down to you, it's because I am. Is this a bad thing? We all need someone to talk down to us, to act as our elder, to toughen us up for worldly realities. I'm just finally getting over my post-adolescent know-it-all sibling society phase and taking the wisdom of elders to heart. I see everything you're going through clear as a bell now, and I realize that the game of rejection/acceptance by a mate is something you impose on yourself. The reality is that you're probably going to part ways soon and never see each other again. It's possible that you will keep in touch, but if you do hook up again, all the meaningful development will happen later, when you're both mentally able to actually have a mature relationship. In the meantime, get the will to live on your own. And have you been exercising?

Le Coq
has crowed.

Originally posted by harrykarry
hmmmm....

You do also...;)


it makes perfect sense that i guy calling himself The Chosen would think that. besides being dominant (my favorite kind of guy by the way) are you also a firefighter?

What about firefighters? Do you see them as an attractive figure of some sort? No I am not one and I don't plan to become one. My goal is to become a businessman.

But I am the prevalent man in the relationship.


that might be a good fit for you....

or maybe you could be the guy that talks people out of jumping off high buildings.

Negotiator?


Originally posted by le coq
Haven't been around in a while. Seems like this thread is still playing the edge between discussion of relationship psychology and assuaging Zero's delicate self-esteem.

I believe Zero mainly said that to render my advice useless in his situation. And he hasn't given clear, coherent, reasons on exactly why it is "useless."

In short - he doesn't like me :D

If Xev gave that advice...it'll be another story...:)

a firefighter came to mind at first but then i dismissed it. (always think of them as studly) but maybe you're a little smarter.

absolutely a nagotiator. a business man :( well, you're gonna be bored.

and i appreciate le coq's perspective. i was beginning to think i was just a horndog :)

zero! the first thing i'd do is change your name. you are what you eat... ptuiii... i just got hair in my mouth.

Negotiator = businessman in many cases. The position I want to hold in the future is as a sales manager. The entirety of sales is negotiation. And I think chosen has something along those lines picked out as well.

harrykarry:

besides being dominant (my favorite kind of guy by the way) are you also a firefighter?

Rwwwwwwwl.

Where's Zero?


What about firefighters? Do you see them as an attractive figure of some sort? No I am not one and I don't plan to become one. My goal is to become a businessman.

I think it is a bit of residual trauma/hero worship from 9/11. Firefighters have suddenly become uber-sexy.

A businessman, Chosen? Should suit you well.

Of course, my career choice is best. *Smiles* Pity that entering a traditionally male feild that is not doing very well is not a good idea.

actually it came from two old calenders i once saw... one was of UPS men and the other was of firefighters. i guess the image just stuck and i can't ever let a ups guy walk by without checking him out.

how about a screenwriter? you're into the psychi of human drama. you could be a script docter. but a business man?

there are a lot of interesting, creative ways to excel in the psychology of the workplace. but then you have to get into the psychology of the workplace... whatever floats your boat.


zev, about zero. you're right. i don't have too much more to add there. he just needs to learn to live life large....

think i'll take this one to a new thread...maybe i'll call it

"how important is sex in a mature relationship?" or... "how important is it to not introduce sex into an imature relationship" or... what was the best sex you ever had? or "even bad sex is good sex"....

chow :cool:

Businessmen are leaders.

They are powerful, people depend on them and their business.

What's so bad about them?

They are boring? Why?

Leaders usually are the jack of all trades.

Where did le coq come from? Interestingly random. There is really more to relationships than sex. Sex can be considered an advanced form of kissing, merely another way to express physical love. It is a force to be reckoned with, but I'll say the way to a girl's heart is not sex. It's all about understanding. Sex doesn' t quite go deep enough. You make some sacrifices in the process of exploring each nook of the heart, but it's all worth it in the end. Sex can come later.

Platonic love? Not fucking likely. And don't fuck with my sig, it's there for a reason. There was one dark period in my life, and I want to remember it so that I know that things actually can get better.

Anyway, she seems to be more friendly towards me, I got some serious, quiet one on one talks in, and she's not blowing up at me anymore. At least I got the "Don't mess with me" message silently through. She seems to be comfortable talking with me. She's sharing more of herself.

Good sign!!


Chosen, I'll say that businessmen are really boring. Powerful (oh yes, they are) but boring. Well, except for my grandfather. He's quite the sage, kind of like Yoda mixed with Morrie ("tuesdays with morrie") and Mr. Keething (from dead poets society) with cynicism. Now he's anything but boring.

And I do agree that I have very little self esteem. I need to work on it.

Originally posted by Zero
Chosen, I'll say that businessmen are really boring. Powerful (oh yes, they are) but boring. Well, except for my grandfather. He's quite the sage, kind of like Yoda mixed with Morrie ("tuesdays with morrie") and Mr. Keething (from dead poets society) with cynicism. Now he's anything but boring.



Why are they boring again? Details?

I mean, sky-diving, having your own private jet, olympic pool, mansion, resort...etc....is...err...boring?

Or you just jealous of the wealthy? So you resort to belitting "tactics"? :D

Just a teensy reality check chosen - every businessman is not wealthy. A good amount of them (the vast majority, actually) make just over average salary.

Zero:

Great to hear it.

And I like your sig. Especially the entropy bit.


Or you just jealous of the wealthy? So you resort to belitting "tactics"?

Oh dear sweet christ. Not this again. Not this. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CURSE YOU GOD EVEN THOUGH YOU LIKELY DON'T EXIST!

Money is cool. Power is more interesting. Businessmen don't have much power.....

Besides, the way the rich spend money is obscenely ridiculous. They do not buy nearly as many Alfa Romeos as they should, so there are no more Alfas. *Sniffles*


Sex doesn' t quite go deep enough.

Sorry Zero, but I liked this quote. Teehee.

Alright, that's it, I shut up now.

Why label and make a blanket statement that businessmen are boring?

I don't quite understand that. Why if I said teachers, accountants, etc. are boring?

Boredom, if anything, relies ultimately on the individual, got that? ;)

I'm sorry, I think that the manipulation of people in the way businessmen do would be horribly dull.

Manipulate money through stocks, that is interesting. Manipulate people by getting inside their heads and making them do whatever you want them to, that is interesting. But consensual manipulation? "Do this and this in exchange for this and this"? BOOOOOORING!

Teachers and accountents tend to be boring.

Like my quote? As in "because it's wrong"? I think it's correct. Sex really doesn't go deep enough. It's just another thing that comes with the joy, pain, and burden of keeping a relationship afloat. The real reward is the emotional and mental intimacy and the mutual support.

and Chosen, the things that they spend money on are exciting, but they themselves are not exciting at all. they're boring. They are powerful (money = power) but pride, corruption, and boredom cometh with power. I'm not envious at all. Well, it might be cool to be able to pay your bills without even knowing what amount they actually are, but I like my life better. I guess it's all different for each person. You might like all the pizazz that's associated with money, and that's probably your ultimate goal in life and your top priority. I'll say my priorities are different.

Xev - business is not about finding someone who will give you their consent to manipulate them. Business is about finding someone who can benefit you and then making them think that giving their consent is their best option. When it is their best option then it's just a matter of being a decent salesman. When it isn't - that's when it gets truely interesting.

Yea yea, Tyler, now I want to here *their* definition of what is fun.

I wouldn't be surprised if what they say can be done by most professions.

How many people get to own their own private jets? Attend thousands of meetings over the world? LoL, businessmen (or international business) constantly travel the world...gee...boring?

I'd like to honestly fucking know what "fun" is then? :)

Thanks :cool:

Only fun for the businessman. Different from making that businessman an interesting person to be with.

"How many people get to own their own private jets? Attend thousands of meetings over the world? LoL, businessmen (or international business) constantly travel the world...gee...boring?"

You are in for a saaaaaaad future my friend. You're going to have to find out that (a) unless you have a shit load of money to begin with (or a mid 90s average your last year of high school) you're going to have to do some pathetic little job such as mine (bike building/repair/sales) to get enough money to go to university; (b) you don't get to 'travel all around the world' from day one of your profession, the beginning is MUCH more local, they don't exactly want to waste money on a newbie when they have 40 year olds with experience; (c) There are veeeeeeeeeeery few people who get the Tom Cruise in The Firm-esque lifestyle from business. I'd say (c) is the most important for you to realie. You're young, the same age as me. What I think the difference between you and me is; my dad from the time I was 12 on took me to his work and showed me the city from the slums out. I'd venture to say that you have about as much chance of owning your own jet through being a businessman as I do of playing semipro hockey. That is, very small. Just, please, don't expect to be a multi-millionair. And certainly don't state it, the more people who you tell you think you'll be that unbelievably successful to the more people will not want to hire you. Know that you want to, and can be, the best - don't vocalize it ever.

Chosen:

Yea yea, Tyler, now I want to here *their* definition of what is fun.

Doing a line of cocaine and a tab of E, then dancing until dawn, stumbling home to take a 7:30am bus when you are still slightly high....

A 10 mile hike in a secluded woods.....

Spending a day with a bottle of Finlandia and cranberry and pinapple juice for Sex on the Beach, simply lying on one's porch in the sun and reading coding manuels.....

Walking alone under the aurora borealis on a storm-battered beach at midnight in the upper peninsula of Michigan.....

Riding a 'cycle through country roads at 3am in the morning, with two hundred pounds of leather and chromium between your legs, at one with your cycle, then stopping to stare at the stars for hours, Beethoven's 9th symphony blasting in your ears.....

Teasing Tiassa and watching in do the cyber-equivalent of frothing at the mouth.....

A nice discussion about philosophy with a brilliant and attractive man....

Running until your legs begin to quiver from exess lactic acid fermentation and you are in so much pain you could scream, and revelling in your ability to excersize this power over yourself....

I could go on and on. None require much money.


I'd like to honestly fucking know what "fun" is then?

Fucking is fun too, now that you mention it. :)

Tyler:


Xev - business is not about finding someone who will give you their consent to manipulate them. Business is about finding someone who can benefit you and then making them think that giving their consent is their best option.

Yeesh, sounds about as interesting as listening to Hannity and Colmes bicker about Enron.

for me...

Savoring a mug of espresso, whether alone or with the special her...

...or with a cup of green tea...(even better!!)

Walking along a river, listening to the gurgling and whispering...

Writing poems with tears in your eyes...

Playing the flute at 2 am, in a secluded spot, with the moonlight peeking in the room...

Slaving your way to the top of a mountain, and then roaring your triumph at the world, with bloody toes and damp shirt...

Diving to deflect a soccer ball, thus saving your team from losing another goal...

Hugging your cat, or dog...

Snuggling with the special someone under the stars...

Staying up till 5 am to write several hundred lines of code, and then spending the rest of the night on a couch...


I could also go on and on.

Originally posted by Tyler
You are in for a saaaaaaad future my friend.

Why? I was talking about wealthy businessmen.


You're going to have to find out that (a) unless you have a shit load of money to begin with (or a mid 90s average your last year of high school) you're going to have to do some pathetic little job such as mine (bike building/repair/sales) to get enough money to go to university;

My future is planned. My oldest brother already owns a business he can live off of. I will expand that business to my college, then to possible all the other colleges.

Also I plan to get a Type I AFROTC scholarship, which covers my entire tuition and more. So I won't be in debt. From there on I will go into the Air Force as a 1st Liutenant and on to a Captain in 6 months - the only thing is challenge, ambition, and competition. I must really want it, try for it, and prove myself for it.


(b) you don't get to 'travel all around the world' from day one of your profession, the beginning is MUCH more local, they don't exactly want to waste money on a newbie when they have 40 year olds with experience;

Yes I know that Tyler. You are almost on the edge of assuming again :)


(c) There are veeeeeeeeeeery few people who get the Tom Cruise in The Firm-esque lifestyle from business. I'd say (c) is the most important for you to realie. You're young, the same age as me. What I think the difference between you and me is; my dad from the time I was 12 on took me to his work and showed me the city from the slums out. I'd venture to say that you have about as much chance of owning your own jet through being a businessman as I do of playing semipro hockey.

Slum you say? I lived in Korea, right Xev? ;) And trust me, Korea is considered a 3rd World country, so I've seen worse than you.


That is, very small. Just, please, don't expect to be a multi-millionair. And certainly don't state it, the more people who you tell you think you'll be that unbelievably successful to the more people will not want to hire you. Know that you want to, and can be, the best - don't vocalize it ever.

So umm...where did I state it? :rolleyes:

I was just defending the wealthy, they aren't boring, those that say they are, are possibly just jealous or something.

I know it is very small, I don't expect to just roll in and become a millionaire...just like women, I must seek out my errors and improve from them becoming successful. May it be a certain socializing problem to negotiating, etc.

And you, my friend, will not make it big time if you think "trial and error" is the way to go, mostly you are on trial.

I hope you see that, things in life aren't very pretty. It takes a strong person to succeed, one willing to look at themselves and their errors and improving from them, one who always wants to become better and doesn't settle for something less that he knows he can achieve more.

Leaders are not born, they are made.

Casanovas are not born, they are made.

Nothing in life is easy.

Slum you say? I lived in Korea, right Xev? And trust me, Korea is considered a 3rd World country, so I've seen worse than you.

Righty-o. Although I think that the Soulth is making definite progress.


Also I plan to get a Type I AFROTC scholarship, which covers my entire tuition and more. So I won't be in debt. From there on I will go into the Air Force as a 1st Liutenant and on to a Captain in 6 months - the only thing is challenge, ambition, and competition. I must really want it, try for it, and prove myself for it.

*Smiles*

You will have little time for your DJing, but that will help. Women love a man in uniform.

Zero:
Those are nice things too.

Chosen, watch it. I have Korean roots.

Originally posted by Zero
Chosen, watch it. I have Korean roots.

Uhh, me too.

Damn hater. :rolleyes:

But it is really going well, she's comin'...:D

Fun as for me...

Doing a line of cocaine and a tab of E, then dancing until dawn, stumbling home to take a 7:30am bus when you are still slightly high....
3 weeks ago.. and yesterday..


A 10 mile hike in a secluded woods.....

hmm.. no woods in England, but two weeks in future.


Spending a day with a bottle of Finlandia and cranberry and pinapple juice for Sex on the Beach, simply lying on one's porch in the sun and reading coding manuels.....

and listening to good old soul.. Today (without the coding manuals)..


Walking alone under the aurora borealis on a storm-battered beach at midnight in the upper peninsula of Michigan.....

N/A :) Year ago, but two weeks in future as well


Riding a 'cycle through country roads at 3am in the morning, with two hundred pounds of leather and chromium between your legs, at one with your cycle, then stopping to stare at the stars for hours, Beethoven's 9th symphony blasting in your ears.....

Similar 1.5 years ago...


Teasing Tiassa and watching in do the cyber-equivalent of frothing at the mouth.....



A nice discussion about philosophy with a brilliant and attractive man....

Similar week ago.. No sexual attraction though - man.. :)


Running until your legs begin to quiver from exess lactic acid fermentation and you are in so much pain you could scream, and revelling in your ability to excersize this power over yourself....
3-4 years ago :)

Yes.. not much to add..
I used to love evenings (long time ago) when parents leave house, and I can sit at 3am in the morning doing coding, listening to good trance music, and watching a movie all at the same time.

Snuggling with the special someone under the stars...
don't know about that :) Hope you can tell us all about it soon :)

Edited to correct a tag

Originally posted by Zero
But it is really going well, she's comin'...:D

How's it going with you and her? :D

Very well, we're getting steamy :D

Bloody 'ell Zero, give us details! DETAILS! DETAILS! DETAILS! Tell what's going on, did you take her out or anything? Is she saying she's attracted to you?

chosen, growing your future is rewarding. but i would skip the business degree and just take as many classes in as many interesting subjects as you want and come up with a philosophy degree or something, especially if you have the business in the bag.

4 out of 5 dentist surveyed agree that it's the degree that counts, not the type of degree. of course take the business classes you feel you need....

it's common to take the first 20 adult years of your life to build your future, then go through a HORENDOUS mid-life crisis allowing the pendulum to swing the other way. if you're lucky you come up with balance.

the alternative degree might help you avoid some of the almost certain pendulum swing your single-minded approach guarantees.

my crystal ball sees you doggedly going for your dream to the exclusion of all else until one day you wake up with nothing that matters.

too many lines of coke or cock can do that too xev.

It's a camp in the middle fo nowhere, I can't take her out anywhere. It's an hour drive to town, and it's also off limits. Dang this camp.

But we went for nice long walks. She's getting less frigid (warmer and warmer exponentially by the minute), and she's revealing more and more of herself. Sure, she still laughs at me, but she seems to feel very comfortable with me now more than ever.

The only problem I fear is the racial gap. She's Caucasian, I'm Oriental. Biiiiiiig gap right there, I say. It's probably been the cause of the other breakups I've experienced. They don't tell me that, of course, they go for the standard "Let's see someone else" and the "Let's just remain friends" bits. But in ordinary language, when they speak of, say, proms, they say "Oriental and Caucasian dancing? Hey, it doesn't work". I only hope this girl is above all that.

If I can only get in a kiss or hug (not counting the half hugs that you actually ask for) it'll be a weeny weeny bit better, since it signifies the "halfway point", sort of. As I said before, I'm not the usual jock guy with no brain. I can hold my own in intelligent conversation with any girl. I'm also artistically inclined. I can at least avoid being a bore.

Originally posted by Zero
It's a camp in the middle fo nowhere, I can't take her out anywhere. It's an hour drive to town, and it's also off limits. Dang this camp.

Invite her to your room, do daring things. Be adventurous. I get in trouble all the time, women love trouble, a guy that they will have trouble handling...someone who will create drama for them.


But we went for nice long walks. She's getting less frigid (warmer and warmer exponentially by the minute), and she's revealing more and more of herself. Sure, she still laughs at me, but she seems to feel very comfortable with me now more than ever.

You mean laugh *with* you...:D

She's comfortable with you now? You have two choices, friends or more. You would chose more, take it on a sexual and/or intimate level. Kiss her. Make your move.

Hesitation is just like masturbation, in the end, you're only screwing yourself :cool:


The only problem I fear is the racial gap.

Fear will lead to your downfall, so control your fear.


She's Caucasian, I'm Oriental. Biiiiiiig gap right there, I say. It's probably been the cause of the other breakups I've experienced.

Maybe we are in different locations...but white girls are very attracted to me.


They don't tell me that, of course, they go for the standard "Let's see someone else" and the "Let's just remain friends" bits. But in ordinary language, when they speak of, say, proms, they say "Oriental and Caucasian dancing? Hey, it doesn't work". I only hope this girl is above all that.

Hmmm..."let's just be friends", did she say that to you already or what?

What's wrong with dancing with white to latin girls? I dance with any girl that is willing to dance.

Sidenote: White people dance weird...(guys that is) ;) :p


If I can only get in a kiss or hug (not counting the half hugs that you actually ask for) it'll be a weeny weeny bit better, since it signifies the "halfway point", sort of. As I said before, I'm not the usual jock guy with no brain. I can hold my own in intelligent conversation with any girl. I'm also artistically inclined. I can at least avoid being a bore.

Ask? Don't ask for anything, be demanding and direct. Just hug her out of the blue. Asking for a simple hug sounds very weak.

I say, do a "kiss-close." This would be the opportune time to ask.

"Would you kiss me?" - Look deep into her eyes when you do this.

If she stalls, just tell her: "I never said you could get one anyway" *smile or wink* ;)

Tease her.

If she is willing to kiss, then go for it, you should be able to tell and notice by her body/facial language.

If she says a plain blank, "no" - She doesn't want to kiss you and hit her up with this line.

"You really do know how to ruin a good moment." or "You're no fun!"

Then leave, or do whatever you feel is right.

Anything other than a plain no = she wants to kiss you.

harrykarry:

Thanks for the advice :cool:

I plan to major in Law, Corporate Law, and work myself up the ladder or become an entrepreneur.

"Invite her to your room, do daring things. Be adventurous. I get in trouble all the time, women love trouble, a guy that they will have trouble handling...someone who will create drama for them."

Agree with Chosen. And if you do get caught and in trouble you have to ask real nonchalant about it. Just pass it off.


"She's comfortable with you now? You have two choices, friends or more. You would chose more, take it on a sexual and/or intimate level. Kiss her. Make your move."

Probably the single most difficult make-or-break point for any guy.


"Maybe we are in different locations...but white girls are very attracted to me."

Where do you live? Anyway, where I live you pretty much only see asians with asians. Anything else would be wierd to them, it seems. Almost every asian in my area of Toronto hangs out largely with other asians (probably of the same nation too) and when not answering a teacher talks solely in their native language. Even if it's not actually their native language.


"Sidenote: White people dance weird...(guys that is)"

Fuck yes. For some reason white guys just look wierd dancing to good music (punk, hard rock not included as that's just moshing and variations of). That's why when I was 11 I got put into dance lessons. Basically, I won't dance to music at this age, but when I'm older I know how to dance every type of dance besides popular music. I can even salsa dance, but a big guy dancing salsa just looks sad.


"I plan to major in Law, Corporate Law, and work myself up the ladder or become an entrepreneur"

Just a note to you; According to Harper's Magazine America (and, I assume Canada) are experiencing an overflow of lawyers. The position became very appealing in the eighties because of the money draw and now all those kids are 28 years old and established lawyers/corporate advisors. So, lawyer is not exactly the best position to take up.

Chosen:

Sidenote: White people dance weird...(guys that is)

Damn straight. I'll never forgive my race for disco.


She's comfortable with you now? You have two choices, friends or more. You would chose more, take it on a sexual and/or intimate level. Kiss her. Make your move.

Umm, Chosen, they're at a very populated camp as I hear. I dunno, sounds quite kinky, but I think Zero's a bit shy for that sort of thing.


Ask? Don't ask for anything, be demanding and direct. Just hug her out of the blue. Asking for a simple hug sounds very weak.

I wouldn't. She sounds like the type to get annoyed if anyone invaded her "personal space" without asking.

I'd rather - gradually move closer. Question Zero - when you are alone together, how far apart do you normally walk?

I'd gradually lower the distance between the two of you. Maybe "accidentally" brush up against her once or twice.

It's actually a bit more interesting and erotic to have a guy briefly touch you than to be hugged.

The rest of your advice is good, though.

Zero,

Whatever you do, you need to make sure you ask her out before the camp is over. You miss all the chances you don't take. You have to learn from experience. That is the best I can give you.

Chosen,

I read through Sosuave and I just started reading the bible. Some of the stuff is pretty good, but a lot of it is wrong. When I go through the list I was surprised how much I already know and how much I agree. A lot of it is really common sense, but some of it is just myth like nice guy finish last and jerks get laid. Jerks do get laid more often, but there is an explaination for that. It is all about managing the psychology of the person you are dating or want to date. If you know how to do that, you can be a nice guy and still do well. I just read the very first section of the DJ bible - kill that desperation. Everything there is consistent with I have been saying. It is pretty common sense. Most guys with experience should be able to come up with that. However, the part about don't come to her and let her come to you is totally bullshit.

I read through Sosuave and I just started reading the bible.

Running interference for Mallory? ;)


It is all about managing the psychology of the person you are dating or want to date. If you know how to do that, you can be a nice guy and still do well.

How could you manipulate somone you wanted to fuck and still keep your desire for them?

Y'all is a buncha weirdos. If I sucessfully manipulated somone into bed, I would lose all desire. How can you desire somone who's so obviously your inferiour?

Originally posted by Xev

Running interference for Mallory? ;)

Actually I try to keep an open mind. I read it all because the other day you said you were bored and want to troll over there again. I then went over there and look at the article. It is ALL YOUR FAULT!!!! :D



How could you manipulate somone you wanted to fuck and still keep your desire for them?

Y'all is a buncha weirdos. If I sucessfully manipulated somone into bed, I would lose all desire. How can you desire somone who's so obviously your inferiour?

Actually it is not about manipulation. Well I guess it is. We all have to manage the psychology of people around us somewhat. My boss has to manage our psychology so we keep working hard dispite low morale from gloomy economy and recent pay deduction. I have to manage my boss's psychology so he appreciates my works and don't take my effort for granted. Teenagers often do or say things to manage their parents' expectation on grades or how late they can stay in a party. Managing your woman's psychology doesn't have to happen very often.

Couple examples, if I think the woman I am dating has low self-esteem or just got wounded psychologically, I would use some positive encouragement and try to boost up her ego. I can brighten up her day and make her very happy. This type of psychological support is not only common but necessary for a happy relationship

On the other hand, if she on her high horse, the worst thing I can do is to pat her ego. If she thinks she is better than you, then she thinks she can do better and she will look for better guys and dump you in the process. This is actually part of the DJ bible, but I already know this from personal experience. Part of the reason jerks get women is because they do things to harm a woman's self-esteem and ego, but by knowing this I really don't need to be a jerk. By managing the psychology of people around you successfully I can still be a nice guy. I don't consider this manipulation to get her in bed at all. Maybe it is, but it is not in the same category as hypnotizing her, drug her, and rape her.

Xev, what you are talking about is really to find a way to put her in the position to make bad decisions. That is not something I advocate.

Edit to add:

One study I have read a long time ago, managing the psychology of our lovers from deceiving is something we are all guilty of. In fact, 90% of people lie to their lovers on daily basis. Most of lies are small lies like "I will call you" or you are screwed either way lies like "No, your butt is not too big". The interesting thing is 90% drops down to 10% after you are married.

p.s. Sorry, I don't have time to check my spellings and grammar.

Originally posted by Xev
How can you desire somone who's so obviously your inferiour?
Actualy if you haven't noticed, guys always marry down and women always marry up. Almost. That is tradition of our society. Guys usually get freaked out and feel insecure when their women make more money than they do. Women usually have no interest in guys who they consider inferior, but guys are exact opposite. Guys go for inferior women, and women go for superior guys. (you may disagree, but that is true traditionally speaking)

Edit to add: My last two posts in this thread are actually on topic. :)

Joeman:

Actually I try to keep an open mind. I read it all because the other day you said you were bored and want to troll over there again. I then went over there and look at the article. It is ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!

Me Justine? *Acts innocent* Now how could you ever say that?

Lucky - er - unfortunate, that I have dynamic IP so I cannot prove my innocence.


Actually it is not about manipulation. Well I guess it is. We all have to manage the psychology of people around us somewhat. My boss has to manage our psychology so we keep working hard dispite low morale from gloomy economy and recent pay deduction. I have to manage my boss's psychology so he appreciates my works and don't take my effort for granted. Teenagers often do or say things to manage their parents' expectation on grades or how late they can stay in a party. Managing your woman's psychology doesn't have to happen very often.

Exactly. I can easily manipulate many people. Some are harder to manipulate, and some I respect and don't manipulate. Now, I confess that I'm no saint - you can't be as obsessed with power as I am and not have the knee jerk reaction "I must get inside this person's head and control them" - but when I love, I do not manipulate. When I respect, I do not hardly manipulate.

I cannot respect the easily manipulated.

Originally posted by Xev
I cannot respect the easily manipulated.

Well, I don't know about that. Sometimes I like to give myself up to be manipulated. I am totally not obssessed with power. I have a very "non-threatening" personality. Sometimes not thinking for myself and letting another person telling me what to do can free up my mind to focus on other things. It may sound strange, but I believe sometimes it would actually enhance the relationship and trust between two people. Sometimes it does more harm than good, so I always call it when I see it.

Basically if it benefits me I wouldn't mind giving myself up, but I would always watch my back.

Joeman:


Well, I don't know about that. Sometimes I like to give myself up to be manipulated. I am totally not obssessed with power. I have a very "non-threatening" personality. Sometimes not thinking for myself and letting another person telling me what to do can free up my mind to focus on other things. It may sound strange, but I believe sometimes it would actually enhance the relationship and trust between two people. Sometimes it does more harm than good, so I always call it when I see it.

This is very true.

Well, controlled submission to superiour force is another thing entirely.

Originally posted by Joeman
Chosen,

I read through Sosuave and I just started reading the bible. Some of the stuff is pretty good, but a lot of it is wrong.

Don't be baseless again. What is wrong on that site? Or is what you say emotionally based?


When I go through the list I was surprised how much I already know and how much I agree.

I thought you said all the advice I gave was idiotic?! :rolleyes:


A lot of it is really common sense, but some of it is just myth like nice guy finish last and jerks get laid.

It's a generalization, not an absolute. Jerks do get laid, and nice guys usually don't.

A lot of it is common sense? Same thing Tyler said, and same thing I said when I first read it. Sure it is, since you read it. Otherwise you would be on "trial and error" mode.

Give credit where credit is due.


Jerks do get laid more often, but there is an explaination for that. It is all about managing the psychology of the person you are dating or want to date. If you know how to do that, you can be a nice guy and still do well. I just read the very first section of the DJ bible - kill that desperation. Everything there is consistent with I have been saying. It is pretty common sense. Most guys with experience should be able to come up with that. However, the part about don't come to her and let her come to you is totally bullshit.

Now you admit to how sosuave advice is golden.

Thank you! You are an OPEN MINDED PERSON!!! :D :cool:

If you disagree about anything on that site, DEBATE IT WITH ME, or on the forum and watch you get shot down :D

Also "kill that desperation" was the thread I linked onto this site. I posted that, you read it and you say ALL of what I have said was idiotic, stupid, doesn't work and crap...:rolleyes:

Funny really :) Thanks for seeing the light. Now go spread the word to the rest.

As for the brainwashed fools, "it's manipulative!!" - go fuck yourself. :p

Originally posted by Xev
Umm, Chosen, they're at a very populated camp as I hear. I dunno, sounds quite kinky, but I think Zero's a bit shy for that sort of thing.

I used to be a shy guy, and let me tell all the shy guys out there.

Being shy barely ever gets you anywhere with women

But some chicks *do* dig shy guys...


I wouldn't. She sounds like the type to get annoyed if anyone invaded her "personal space" without asking.

I'd rather - gradually move closer. Question Zero - when you are alone together, how far apart do you normally walk?

I'd gradually lower the distance between the two of you. Maybe "accidentally" brush up against her once or twice.

It's actually a bit more interesting and erotic to have a guy briefly touch you than to be hugged.

The rest of your advice is good, though.

Both of our advice is good, both WILL work if done right.

Chosen:
Maybe.

BUT MINE IS BETTER! MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE! (Calm down now, Xev)

No, I've done a little reading there now. It's mostly pretty good, like not bringing flowers to a first date and all. (But you should buy flowers for your girl. Flowers are cool, especially irises - er, iris? irii?) and especially the stuff about talking about sex in order to get her thinking of sex.

*Sniffles*

And here I was, thinking I was a genius.

Okay, the problem is this. This is the thing that forces me to give up. I live on the east coast and she lives on the opposite side of this friggin country!!!

How much better can this get? I would gladly ask her out but with a few days left to spare before we migrate to our respective sides of the US...no...

Originally posted by Zero
Okay, the problem is this. This is the thing that forces me to give up. I live on the east coast and she lives on the opposite side of this friggin country!!!

How much better can this get? I would gladly ask her out but with a few days left to spare before we migrate to our respective sides of the US...no...

Long distance relationship doesn't work for students. Too much temptations and distraction. Game, Set, Match.

I have seen many examples of long distance relationships ended up in marriages, but I have seen a hell lot more ended up in breakups. Long distance relationships would work because each person is career oriented. They totally focus on their careers and are perfectly happy with their other halves so they don't get distracted or don't bother looking. Some of these people actually enjoy having long distance relationship because they are very busy with their work or research so they don't need to spend time keep their men/women happy. That is very rare. Most people lose their feelings toward their mates if they don't see each other in regular basis.

Zero, now be realistic. it's over.

Yep, I realize that. Since she's West coast, and ambitious, most likely she'll end up in Stanford or Caltech. I'm east, and I want to stick to East, so I'll go on to the Ivies.

Not about to switch over to the west just for a girl!! And there are amazing girls wherever you go.

Originally posted by Joeman
Long distance relationship doesn't work for students. Too much temptations and distraction. Game, Set, Match.

Very true, my 1.5 year relationship just ended last week...


I have seen many examples of long distance relationships ended up in marriages, but I have seen a hell lot more ended up in breakups.

Long distance relationships are meant for the dedicated and "real people"

Never have one with a stupid "rules girl"


Long distance relationships would work because each person is career oriented. They totally focus on their careers and are perfectly happy with their other halves so they don't get distracted or don't bother looking. Some of these people actually enjoy having long distance relationship because they are very busy with their work or research so they don't need to spend time keep their men/women happy. That is very rare. Most people lose their feelings toward their mates if they don't see each other in regular basis.

Yes, I'm way to busy in everything else to have a girlfriend in the same area code. I have 6+ AP classes, do all the sports, volley-ball captain, wrestling, soccer, tennis, etc. And also all the extra-cirriculars, I simply have no time for a girlfriend where I live. If I do have a relationship here, they end up getting mad and frustrated because I do not really have the time for them.

As for not seeing each other in the regular basis, girls (not women), don't understand. Some girls are really immature, they say one thing and do the other. Without the DJ site I would be a total wreck. Stupid "rules" crap and dumb magazines. It really influences the young minded.

Its really funny how they keep making excuses...so pathetic, that's why I dumped her on the spot.

Committment is a weakness, and I've committed to the wrong person.

If she betrays you once, its her fault. If she betrays you 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 times, it's definitely your fault.

I gave her too many chances, girls cry, get all uptight and emotional, right when you think everything is ok, she bursts out with some more bullshit :)

Chosen:

Very true, my 1.5 year relationship just ended last week...

Sorry Chosen.

*Smiles and decides to tease Chosen to cheer him up*

C'mon, you're a nice guy, any woman would want you.

I agree on long distance relationships. I wouldn't have time for anything else with work and study and all, and I think it could work if you really truely cared about a person. But relationships in general suck.


If she betrays you once, its her fault. If she betrays you 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 times, it's definitely your fault.

Fool me once, fuck you. Fool me twice, fuck me.

K, now I know I was fooling myself all the while. She's really not the one I like...funny how your mind plays tricks on you...

Anyone know how to win the heart of a Chinese girl? She does speak English like I do (very very well, American accent and everything if you heard us on the phone you wouldn't know we were Asian). And she goes to this all girl high school, apparently.

I need some suggestions here?

Note, she is very mature. She has never cracked or freaked out under pressure (wow, I really admire her for that...the woman of steel?). So she is very stable.

Downside, she does not know how to flirt.

Originally posted by Zero
Note, she is very mature. She has never cracked or freaked out under pressure (wow, I really admire her for that...the woman of steel?). So she is very stable.

Downside, she does not know how to flirt.

Read the stuff I gave you earlier in this thread...you still don't think it is bullshit right?

Also visit www.sosuave.com and read the ARTICLES

The forum has been filled with newb's and crap lately...lol they think a DJ is someone that is able to get a 9's # :rolleyes:

Hall of Fame Articles (http://www.sosuave.com/halloffame/default.htm) - All are good, I suggest you read them once, twice, and then every once a month :D (j/k) until you get the DJ mindset

Doc Love's Articles (http://www.sosuave.com/doclove/default.htm) - He is arguably one of the best men to give advice on women, he's featured at tons of sites, a prevalent site is www.askmen.com/ but some of the advice on that site is "AFC"

Bryan Redfield Articles (http://www.sosuave.com/home/redfield/default.htm)

Ron Louis & David Copeland (http://www.sosuave.com/rondavid/default.htm)

Romance Tips (http://www.sosuave.com/romance/default.htm)

It's all good solid advice. If you like to debate about some of them, tell me.

The forum is used to ask peer-to-peer help. But recently the forum is trashy with the influx of so many AFC's and newbies...

Hey Xev, need some feedback for new situation here...

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