Nostradamus said that the antichrist would be from the east and would march from China with 200,000,000 men.
The way I see it is that in about 2015 or so the chinese north koreans and Iranians will truly try to take over the world and with as massive a population base as China has then we should be very worried. Its already starting as we see Iran and Pakistan starting up nuclear programs and with China having nearly as advanced an armament as the united states NOt to mention that China is becoming more and more powerful every day with its people making an average of 16,000 a year up from 7,000 in 1990 and with the chinese military expansion I think that in 5 or six years they will be the super power. Any comments or arguements are welcomed and enjoyed

Nostradamus said a lot of things in his quatrains. None of the ones I've read were so literal as to name what country the antichrist (if there is such thing) would come from. Could you post it so we can read it and offer our opinions?

(By the way, I'm feeling a little cranky right now, so my only suggestion is to nuke them all off the face of the planet before they can start trouble. j.k.)

gee...it's damn lucky we got the nukes first, so we have the luxury of murdering billions of people solely to preserve our way of life. This is a new level in evolutionary perversity. We're actually killing each other to protect ourselves.

Seriously though, there is a great problem brewing. The 4 or so billion proles of the world are getting mighty pissed off, and they're arming themselves. We are looking at a traditional revolution scenario, only this will be the first international revolution, where the Marxian classes are entire nations.

[This message has been edited by DaveW (edited October 21, 1999).]

With the current level of sloppy job performance, burning flags, etc., how is America supposed to win against another up-and-coming superpower? Especially when we're outnumbered, we all have the same toys, and their education results are higher? Where has America's care and conviction gone?

[This message has been edited by Vanja (edited October 21, 1999).]

Vanja- We don't all have the same toys. What do you think those "black projects" are? You don't really think the government actually pays 2 billion dollars for a hammer, do you? They have to justify the expense somehow, so they feed us a story about contracts and set prices. I don't know about you, but if a government guy comes in and wants to buy a nail for 4 million bucks, I'll make the sale and retire. There just aren't that many millionaires out there to validate this.

"The business of America is war." Sad, but apparently true. When it comes to killing thousands upon thousands of people, we have the toys to do it with. I think that the fact that we haven't openly slaughtered everyone who hates us speaks volumes about our self-restraint, or else about how much our government fears the American people.

Maybe I'm just deluding myself, or maybe it comes from the cocksure stance of living in an area that is very valuable to the government, but I sleep easy at night knowing that if anybody overtly touches my homeland, they're going to get slapped into yesterday.

(Notice I said 'overtly'. I know about the hinky goings on with spies and the training of foreign soldiers.)

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"Shine, sweet Freedom..."

As it is right now, America may have military dominance through technology and industrial strength, but this is certainly a temporary situation. America is a very small nation, population-wise, and does not deserve the world's attention.

What concerns me is that other nations are moving suprisingly quickly to negate America's technological and industrial edge. China is an excellent example. I remember only a few years ago being amused when China's first communication satellites (made out of bamboo, in fact) crashed (near Taiwan, I think). Three or four years later, China has a brand-new launch site that rivals anything America has, along with plans to send men to the moon in the early millenium. This technological advancement is astonishing. It's clear that America will be at a technological and military disadvantage in the next 20 years. I only fear that as America's star fades, she will turn more and more to fascist ideals in an attempt to restore past glory.

Whic is all the more reason to keep plenty of funding going to National Defense and ousting any neo-luddites who believe that the old ways were best.

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"Shine, sweet Freedom..."

Yes, but that is only going to delay the inevitable. The world is changing. Thinking otherwise will only make the transition that much bloodier.

What would be a bizarre situation would be if the nature of war got so scary that NOBODY wanted to risk it, not even the despots and terrorists, and everybody started negotiating and behaving like rational adults for fear that a war WOULD break out.

You mean a cold war?

(I don't mean to say that the last one involved any mature, rational thinking)

It's possible, though I don't think terrorists are sane enough to consider fully the consequences of their actions (they have a suicidal flair). The government is right to be scared of that sort of subversion.

About Nostradamus:


L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,

Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy d'effrayeur:

Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angolmois,

Auant apres Mars regner par bon-heur.

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The year 1999 seven month,,

From the sky will come a great King of terror:

To bring back to life the great King of Angolmois,

Before after Mars to reign by go


What people often do is translating the translation. And since the translators are often wrong, then the translation of the translation is wrong. (???)

I will find your Quatrain, this is the most famous one though, but i'll find the quatrain you are reffering to.


I do not believe China will be the agressor that "everyone" thinks. I think we might see a new "cold war" where the arms race starts again. But that is it.

USA has lost its vision for sure, and i bet they'd do anything to set another goal.

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"It's always easier to ask questions than to give the answers. The Questions are almost always innocent, but the answer's are most often not".


Haakon T Haug ( aka H-kon)

Oxygen,

Your comment regarding 'scary' weapons is historically interesting. Alfred Nobel (as in Nobel prizes) was a chemist who invented many things. Of important note as far as modern warfare goes, he invented nitroglycerine and TNT. It was his opinion that the destructive power of such weapons would be too great for anyone to dream of using. Well, he was a little wrong. In fact, part of the reason (at least to personified history) for him making the Nobel Peace Prize was to 'make up' for the damage he unknowingly caused in his inventions.

I mentioned this before (I'm still to lazy to verify that it was he), but I think it was Socrates that complained that the only ethical advancements humans have made is to account for new technology, while the base ethics and behaviors don't seem to change.

In short, I don't think there is such a thing as a weapon too frightening to use. While we Americans talk about other countries getting nuclear weapons, let's see what happens if it is suggested that we get rid of ours. We are also the only country to use these weapons on a human population.



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Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
-Mark Twain

It's already been suggested, and the response was the same one given by every other nation with nuclear weapons: "You first..."

I was talking hypothetically about a weapon too scary to use. I have faith in every society's ability to wipe another or itself off the face of the map.

Of course, even if the human race does destroy itself, another species will come along and attain the same, if not worse, level of destructive capability. This is, I believe, a byproduct of the survival instinct. It's kind of a trade-off. "Okay, you get to be the dominant life-form on the planet. The catch is, you're never going to outgrow the savagery that put you there. If you do, you lose and a species willing to hang onto it will get to be the dominant life-form and will probably eat you." (Boy! Imagine Komodo Dragons with guns! Then again, considering their numbers, imagine gophers with guns!)

I'm not sure if I'd rather be a gopher or a Komodo Dragon if I had to be a species other than human. Komodo Dragons are cool, but gophers don't have to work as hard for their food. On the other hand, nothing eats a Komodo Dragon...

Hey, everybody! If you had to a terrestrial species other than human, what would it be?

(I'm rambling. I know. I'll shut up for now.)

I think I'd be a pre-earth spirit which becomes an angel of God to help those on earth who are struggling with their existence.

I think I'd like to be a cockroach. I think THEY are going to be the next dominant species - they will probably be just about the only survivors once we get around to nuking the whole world. ;-)

SkyBlue....

Have you read "The Transition of Titus Crow" by Brian Lumley? It's one of his early works, on DAW Publishers. Directly inspired by Lovecraft, Titus Crow is removed from his temporal standard and placed sometime in the future. It's worth noting that, as the Earth's sun threatens to swallow the landscape, he is left standing and gazing at a mile-high statue of a cockroach.

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)

[This message has been edited by tiassa (edited October 28, 1999).]

I'd like to object to all the China paranoia. First of all, U.S. is not nearly so little. While China has about 1.2 billion people, U.S. has about 300 million. That's a 4:1 ratio, which is not so bad. Furthermore, consider the relative abundance of resources. While U.S. has not even began to reach its limits, China is under continuous strain just trying to keep its population fed with the (relatively) little arable land it possesses. China already stringently controlls its birth rates in an effort to actually cut its population down to (eventually) manageable levels. On the other hand, U.S. is continuously absorbing immigrants, spawning multi-billion dollar companies and criss-crossing its territory with high-tech infrastructure.

China's space technology is laughable still. Their manned program is basically cannibalized Soviet technology from 30 years ago. Yes, China is definitely set to become an economic giant on a per-capita basis, but that will take (in my opinion) much longer than most people think. By that time, both U.S. and the rest of the world will grow as well, so a China-dominated Earth is unlikely.

Furthermore, talk about population: right next to China is India with 800 million people. That's 2/3 of China's population! Yet, somehow India is always on the sidelines...

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I am; therefore I think.

mabe the only reason we are here is because E.T'S made us because they are fighting a war, or are going to fight a war, and want good soldiers, and what are the perfect soldiers????? humans.............
we are so distructive, that we blow up almost anything in sight, were the perfect shock troops. we really arnt that smart, but look at the grays, there hella smart, but look at their bodys, they cant fight worth shit, so the engieneered us, were basically stong, fast, quick thinkers, we can be sneaky, we have the perfect military minds, probobly the best out of most alien races. we thrive off of killing, but were stuck here, on earth, we are trying to get free to kill some more speicies, to gain control, but mosst of our poor, helpless minds cant figure out ho, their to cought up in how to do it fast enough to get out there to the other living things to distroy!


that is all

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dexter

Dexter,

First inhale then exhale, it helps trust me.
If we are stupid how can we think quickly, be sneaky, and have the perfect military mind? All of witch things need some sort of smarts!

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born


[This message has been edited by 666 (edited October 30, 1999).]

because dude,
we use our smartness in a stupid way.
and also, were stupid to other aliens and stuff prob. all we think about is fucking. i dont think the greys accually use almost everything for sex.

that is all

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dexter

dexter,

LOL. I assume you are a teenager. Don't worry, in a few years you will be able to think about a few other things besides sex. Until then, tough. :D

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I am; therefore I think.

Question, Blue... Where do you get your information?

Dexter,

Calling everyone stupid only lables yourself as stupid and makes any argument (point of view) a stupid one. With that said why would anyone want to listen to you?

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born

its not that were stupid really, its more like were smart, but in our oun way. were not that smart though, we might be able to be really smart someday though. as said in men in black, "a person is smart, but people are stupid, dumb and other stuff" so u see, everyone one of us is smart but not as a whole group. i gtg eat dinner now. later ya'll

thats all i got

Ok going on the premise that we are only smart on a certain level. Would it be correct to say that in certain areas we excel and dominate whare the aliens (if they are real, I'm a none beliver) are lacking and could posibly crush thier little skulls into the ground. On the other hand we could make new friends. This leads some ware trust me...

The point I'm trying to get to is, intelegence on this level is completely subjective. Do we excel at what we need to in order to live and be triumphant. My answer well look around. Who is the dominant life form on this planet?


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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born


[This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 04, 1999).]

666,
The question of intelligence certainly covers a lot of ground. But to narrow it down and reiterate, we're talking about the actions we take collectively.


Do
we excel at what we need to in order to live and be triumphant. My answer well look
around. Who is the dominant life form on this planet?

Yeah, we're doing pretty well for ouselves but it's deceptive. In not too long from now, we'll be faced with what will be a huge energy crisis. Eroding top soil, dwindling oil resources, over-population, the list goes on. How intelligent can we possibly think of ourselves as a species when we hold our own heads underwater? So it's really a question of longevity when it comes to the true measure of intelligence.

As to aliens not having things that we do, they most likely haven't any use for greed, competition, sex drives, or any of the other things that drive human society. Without being too preachy here, I see this time in history as a test. We have the choice to abandon our old ways of thinking for the gift of longevity, or we can continue to plunder our life blood. If we don't make it, It wasn't meant to be. If we do, we will look back to now and shudder at how close we came to extinction. I fear that this is where the aliens come into the picture. It seems that their mission is to save us at all costs...and who knows what this could entail.

Jmitch,

People tend to focus on only the ugly half of the coin. What they don't see is the fact that we are taking corrective actions to the pitfalls you speak of. Look at how many environmental agencies are out there, both national and international agencirs. I also find it interesting that whenever people think of aliens they only believe that they are totally opposite to us, when in fact we have no idea. We don't observe them in everyday life.

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born


[This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 06, 1999).]

666,
That's right. There's been a huge increase in global awareness and the environment in the last decades but it's simply a patch. Most of our efforts are retroactive when in fact they should be the opposite. I agree that things are headed in this direction, but it's a matter of willingness on our part. It's also largly a matter of commerce and government. But the root of it begins with you and me.

The aliens thing: I assume you too have never observed an alien. All that I'm doing is trying to make rational conclusions about something irrational. Probablity,personal accounts,and time factors of cultural development and how they relate to us, etc are what I use in coming to *conclusions* on this matter.

Blue:

Yes. I know about that. And i also know the reason they are doing it.(lasers) I know who's in (mostly) and who's not(3rd world) which i have gotten from sources involved. I cant really mention anything specific other than that people will soon find out why the lasers are put into orbit (there are groundbased ones too) and why they seem to be in a hurry getting them up.

You will soon find out.

We sure as hell are not stupid we just have problems working together. If the earth was united under a single government (through conflict or peace) then we would advance much faster. Give the human species a decade of complete unity and peace and we would burst into the intergalactic colonization scene. But only then may we prosper this is why i support China. This is because it is the only country with the numbers and the streangth to unite the world.

China can't rule its own people without oppression and terror. How are they going to run the world?

Bezzle

No! Do a little resaerch into who exactly is trying to bring about this "one world order". The Wall has fallen, the USSR has crubled yet there is still communism (China for example). Hitler may have killed millions but communist goverments have sluaghtered scores of millions.

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The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
-Max Born

"New Age" religion is supposed to originate in the areas of Asia and Russia... where non-Christian religions are predominant. The Anti-Christ will try to overcome with sheer numbers at first and the quiet return to paganism which we are now noticing will help the cause in other areas of the world. However, as prophesied, Satan will only rule the world for a relatively short period. Subsequent to that, we shall all meet Jesus Christ and our maker.

dude bezzle,

unite the world??? are we on the same earth?? the only way that could really happen is for one country to nuke all the others and then it'll be the only one else, that is the human definition for united under one gov. dude, and once we do do that (assuming that we will) we wont last for more than a year. we will rebel and shit, dude, its better to just have a ton of different minds, with different theories than one mind and theory


that is all


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dexter

BlueHummingbird-Ever since we detonated that firecracker over Hiroshima people have been going on and on about WW3. It's always been "just around the corner". For 54 years it's been "just around the corner". How long before we get to that corner? Will somebody just "push the button" so we can finally stop having to hear that phrase?

Of course there's going to be a WW3. Someone said that it already happened, but that it was fought in boardrooms across the world (just before Japan's economy went South). But all the doom and gloom sounds like rehashed 60s rhetoric to me. Does anyone have an original thought on WW3, or are we stuck vomitting the same old thing generation after generation?

I'll probably get flamed for this post, but ever since the hippies became the establishment it seems like we have to live their teen-age lives and ideals with no room for an opposing viewpoint. This validates the idea that "hippy" is derived from "hypocrite".

I've got no problem with a different opinion, BlueHummingbird. I've got no problem with an opposing opinion, either. In fact, I'd like to hear why you think I'm shutting others out. But after 32 years of hearing "WW3 is coming, WW3 is coming", not to mention the years before I was born, when is it going to get here? It's like living with a parrot that only knows one phrase and keeps repeating it over and over and over...

So, what is this viewpoint you have? I've read your original post. Could you elaborate on why you think the advent of space-age weapons will make the world's governments more likely to go to war?

(As a sidenote, why does everyone think the US will start "the Big One"? There are plenty of terrorists all over the world who would launch a major nuclear strike given half a chance. Ours are just elected and, theoretically, accountable.)

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited November 11, 1999).]