I saw a surprising trend in my recent reading of classical philosophy. In hindu, abrahamic and greek- roman traditions, man is supposed to have fallen from a brilliant time a long time ago. U have the sat-yug in Hindu mythology, the age of gods and age of heroes in classical myths and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition. Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?

Science, mathecmatics, technology, philosophy are [and to some extend, have always been] on a upward trend. So much so that a 10 yr old today knows more than what archimedes did 2000 years ago.

So why this contradiction in reality and tradition? Why do none say we are getting better, while all insist that there was a time immensely better than the current one? What are the psychological/philosophical/social reason for this common idea?

I saw a surprising trend in my recent reading of classical philosophy. In hindu, abrahamic and greek- roman traditions, man is supposed to have fallen from a brilliant time a long time ago. U have the sat-yug in Hindu mythology, the age of gods and age of heroes in classical myths and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition. Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?

Science, mathecmatics, technology, philosophy are [and to some extend, have always been] on a upward trend. So much so that a 10 yr old today knows more than what archimedes did 2000 years ago.

So why this contradiction in reality and tradition? Why do none say we are getting better, while all insist that there was a time immensely better than the current one? What are the psychological/philosophical/social reason for this common idea?

Probably because we have lost nature to some high-rise buildings. Our spirit wants the trees, and fields back. (Spirit as in subconscious)

Depends upon your point of view as to exactly what you think that humans have really accomplished as of today against what they had thousands of years ago. There were no world wars, no pollution, the many diseases we have they didn't, the awarness of the Eath as the sustainer of life and the respect of the Earth because of that, no overpopulated places, abundant food and water, and many other things that they had that made their lives better to a certain point of view.

While we have "advanced" in many aspects of knowledge the wisdom we once had is now almost non existant. While we understand the universe much more today in a physical sort of way , we lost the wonderment and awe that once gave us myths and stories.

I mean, why did classical thinkers think man had fallen?

I mean, why did classical thinkers think man had fallen?

It's a rich question indeed. And I think I can answer it simply.

"The catfish I caught was thiiiiiiiis big"

I mean, why did classical thinkers think man had fallen?

In the simplest expression, it was a means of comforting people about the wretched state of humanity. Sort of a, "Well, sure, this is what we are now, but once upon a time? Hey, we can be that again."

A more complex analysis delves into the evolving role of storytelling, the relation between stories and fear of the mysterious that becomes what we call religious faith, and the power to manipulate behavior derived therefrom. The great minds of history are not immune to religious sentiment, and, indeed, if one intends to communicate a suspected truth to the masses, one must do it in such a manner that the masses understand. It is a cycle that seems infinite because ideological atrophy is generally sublimated, and thus not apparent at first glance. It is evident, however, if one looks at the cyclical rise and fall of belief systems; not just individual religions, as such, but according to the criteria upon which competing ideologies are built.

In short, the tales tell that we have fallen from great heights in order to reconcile our psyches to the reality of our wretched human frailty.

and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition. Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?


The good times didn't seem to last too long .... one bite of an apple and it was over! :)

Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?


I mean, why did classical thinkers think man had fallen?
Because man is that absurd little species that would kill himself after deciphering the universe because it gave him a hard on.

The church taught him well: he'd suffocate his mind, curiosity, talents and worth fearing he might be a degenerate.

It's also a natural response to reading Tiassa. I mean, ahem:


TessieIn the simplest expression, it was a means of comforting people about the wretched state of humanity. Sort of a, "blah blah blah.........................blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaah blah blah blah

God I love to hear myself type, I'm so fucking punctuated....blah blah blah...

A more complex analysis delves into the evolving role of storytelling, the relation between stories and fear of the mysterious that becomes what we call religious faith, and the power to manipulate behavior derived therefrom. The great minds of history are not immune to religious blah blah blah blah.......sentiment, and, indeed, if one intends to communicate a suspected truth to the masses, one must do it in such a manner that the masses understand. It is a cycle that seems infinite because ideological atrophy is generally sublimated, and thus not apparent at first glance. It is evident, however, if one looks at the cyclical rise and fall of belief systems; not just individual religions, as such, but according to the criteria upon which competing blah blah blah blah blah blah.......ideologies are built.

In short, the tales tell that we have fallen from great heights in order to reconcile our psyches to the reality of our wretched human frailty.

Don't you feel absolutely wretched now?

don't you feel absolutely wretched now?

lol.

lol.
I had to shower with gasoline to scrub it all off.

Poor Gendanken.

I had to shower with gasoline to scrub it all off.

Poor Gendanken.

Wow, wierd. I kinda liked her language skills.

Wow, wierd. I kinda liked her language skills.
Who's 'her'? Tessie?

So.

Who reported me? Was it you, aaqucnaona? For what?

Tiassa doesn't report anything-- he's a bloody supermod.

So.

Who reported me? Was it you, aaqucnaona? For what?

Tiassa doesn't report anything-- he's a bloody supermod.

What report? I didnt report anyone anytime. Tiassa is a he? Why does he have a girl name then. And who the hell are hes and shes on this forum. How am I supposed the choose my pronouns?

Tiassa is a he? Why does he have a girl name then.

Tiassa is name of a large cat-like animal from the Dragarean books by Steven Brust.

Never mind.

The refraction was removed. And Tessie's a he, a fact much easier to remember if you forget what he looks like.

*poke*


Why does he have a girl name then
He's a liberal. From Seattle.

QED.

And who the hell are hes and shes on this forum.
The males have drool leaking out of their adjectives.
And all the females have pepper spraying out of their nouns.

Tiassa is name of a large cat-like animal from the Dragarean books by Steven Brust.

K. I still think its a girl name.
Who do u decide what gender a poster belongs to? U seem to be male, but I cant be sure [alex may be used as a girl name too]. It makes choosing pronouns difficult. I mean, do I have to resort to saying 'them' and 'it'?

aaqucnaona:

For example, one can determine the gender of a certain AlexG by his fixation with words dealing with what National Geographic calls a vagina:
he loves using the words "cooch" "dildo" "menopausal" and "period".

We've drawn a psychological profile on said specimen, but in the interest of science we shall ask him directly for input:

Why do you like using those words, AlexG?

|| AlexG, your insult has been deleted and yellow-carded.

Why don't you two give it a rest..

|| AlexG, your insult has been deleted and yellow-carded.

Why don't you two give it a rest..

What insult? On this thread?

Pls, some moderator advice me on this:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2877306#post2877306

Why don't you two give it a rest..

Because we're bored, and what better way to prove to aaqucnaona humanity's wretchedness than to showcase how Gendanken would rather lick her own asshole than tend to something more serious, like gardening and finishing an article?


Procrastination is nicotine.

What insult? On this thread?
I deleted it.


Pls, some moderator advice me on this:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2877306#post2877306
Contact Tiassa.

OP
I saw a surprising trend in my recent reading of classical philosophy. In hindu, abrahamic and greek- roman traditions, man is supposed to have fallen from a brilliant time a long time ago. U have the sat-yug in Hindu mythology, the age of gods and age of heroes in classical myths and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition. Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?

There is a big difference. In Hindu thoughts, man did not fall from grace of God or got expelled from eden precipotately.

Transition from Sat Yuga to Kali Yuga is progressive and largely due to mankind.

After the Kali Yuga is over, Lord Kalki will appear and again restore Sat Yuga and a clean slate, which man will surely sully.

There is a big difference. In Hindu thoughts, man did not fall from grace of God or got expelled from eden precipotately.

Transition from Sat Yuga to Kali Yuga is progressive and largely due to mankind.

After the Kali Yuga is over, Lord Kalki will appear and again restore Sat Yuga and a clean slate, which man will surely sully.

I know. But the central point still remains - that man had had better times and things have gone to the dogs since.

Sat Yuga was the period when man mastered agriculture and was no longer nomadic. Land was bountiful, as population was less. Man had developed kingdoms and was able to help devas militarily.

In Hindu thoughts, there is no entity like satan which engineered the fall of man.

I saw a surprising trend in my recent reading of classical philosophy. In hindu, abrahamic and greek- roman traditions, man is supposed to have fallen from a brilliant time a long time ago. U have the sat-yug in Hindu mythology, the age of gods and age of heroes in classical myths and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition. Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?

Science, mathecmatics, technology, philosophy are [and to some extend, have always been] on a upward trend. So much so that a 10 yr old today knows more than what archimedes did 2000 years ago.

So why this contradiction in reality and tradition? Why do none say we are getting better, while all insist that there was a time immensely better than the current one? What are the psychological/philosophical/social reason for this common idea?

If I had to summarize it a nutshell, we are seeing natural selection at work. Natural selection will eliminate self-aware big-brained simians just like it has eliminated other non-optimal characteristics of other species. Even with a reduction in intelligence, it's unlikely the species will survive; just look at the fossil record.

It's highly arrogant to think that developing primitive tools like science, mathematics, technology, and philosophy can trump the power of the natural selection process. In fact, it is hastening that process through our increased ability to destroy the environment that sustains us.

I saw a surprising trend in my recent reading of classical philosophy. In hindu, abrahamic and greek- roman traditions, man is supposed to have fallen from a brilliant time a long time ago. U have the sat-yug in Hindu mythology, the age of gods and age of heroes in classical myths and the garden of eden in the abrahamic tradition.

You see the same kind of idea in Chinese Confucianism. The Chinese traditionally imagined several mythological dynasties that came before the historical ones, times of peace and prosperity when society functioned harmoniously, the will of heaven was honored and everyone knew their social roles and tried to fulfill them responsibly. Then things cracked apart, heaven was displeased and conditions declined into what the Chinese saw around them in the historical dynasties. The Chinese 'Classics' purported to explain the vision of the earlier age and the task today was to restore it.


Why this obsession with a fall from a once better time?

In the monotheistic religions, I guess that it's often associated with the problem of evil. If a single God created the universe, and if the universe has evil spread all through it, then God would presumably be the author of evil. The idea of an original Garden allows the myth to say that God's creation was originally all good, and that it's mankind's sins that screwed it up.

A similar idea might lie beneath the Confucian version too. There's the idea both that an ideal life is possible and that it's in tune with the will of heaven. The fact that the real-life world falls so obviously short of perfection is the result of human beings behaving improperly and screwing things up.

In both cases, there's an implicit idea that things that people screwed up by themselves can also be restored by human actions, and that the original Kingdom can someday be regained if we will only behave correctly.

That idea of building a perfect Kingdom and achieving some kind of apotheosis is implicit in the modern idea of progress too. The difference is that it's no longer imagined as a restoration but a new and higher creation.