I have found myself in a strange predicament and could use some advise.

Allow me to introduce the cast of this soap opera first.

-Me, Jon.
-Alice, friend of 2 years, hates Kathy
-Kathy, friend of a few months, ex-gf, hates Alice
-Bill, supposed controlling and evil ex-bf of Kathy

A couple of months ago I met Kathy. We liked each other, got to know each other, and started dating. She told me all about Bill, this old bf of hers that she dated for a long time, and how he was very controlling and posessive of her and almost ruined her life.

Anyway, we broke up after about a week of going steady, mainly because she had "realised she wasn't interested in me". Whatever, no big deal. She wanted to continue being friends and I hesitantly agreed.

So Kathy and I develop a pretty good post-mortem friendship. We hang out a little, talk on msn often, etc. Just do friend stuff. She often babbles on about Bill, saying how much she hates him and telling me embarrasing stories about the guy, such as his having a tiny penis and having screamed a guy's name once during sex.

About 6 weeks later, Alice informs me that Kathy had told her friends (one of whom is a mutual friend of Alice) why she broke up with me so fast. Apparently I was "becoming posessive, yelled at her in the halls, and told her who she could and could not hang out with." This, of course, is a complete lie. I was never posessive, never even thought of yelling at her (it's not even in my nature), and I never told her who she could and could not hang out with. In fact, I had reassured her of quite the opposite: that whoever her friends were were fine with me.

Now wait a second. This "description" of me sounds... ghasp! EXACTLY like the description of this old bf of hers. So let's examine Bill. Although I don't know him personally, he's quite nice it seems. He's not the pompous, controlling ass she makes him seem like (at least on the surface). Alice tells me kathy says this stuff about all of her exs.

I'm left to wonder who to believe now. Alice, my loyal friend of 2 years who hates Kathy and actually has a reason to lie about her, or Kathy, who has been a pretty decent friend since we broke up but DOES posess the qualities of a vindictive troublemaker amidst her "every day, average girl" persona.

How do I proceed? Should I confront Kathy about this? Should I meet up with Bill and ask him about their history together? Normally I wouldn't be too concerned -- just a little mad -- but a new friendship is on the line here and as it stands TWO friends have lost my trust here, and only ONE deserves it. What do I do?

I rekon you should meet Bill and see what he's got to say.

If Kathy told such blatant lies about you, it means she's a liar and liars usually give themselves away... you'll be able to tell (you probably know already).

If you know Alice to be a woman of intergrity, then chances are she's telling the truth.

Why would Alice (your LOYAL friend) hate Kathy enough to lie about her and ruin YOUR friendhip? Doesn't she care about YOUR feelings? Did you trust Alice implicitly before this happened?

You could talk to Bill, but he may not be aware that he's a control freak, or he may give you a different reason about why he broke up with Kathy and ultimately he's not about to admit to having a small dick is he? So that avenue of inquiry might turn out to be a bit of a cul-de-sac.

Seeing as Alice hates Kathy anyway (and vice versa presumably), you should tell Alice that you're going to confront Kathy about it, as there will be no love lost between them. Then you should gently broach the subject with Kathy, without accusing her, and watch her reaction.

You say Kathy DOES possess vindictive qualities! This mere fact alone, would lead me to give Alice the benefit of the doubt and make me very suspicious of Kathy.

You'll have to forgive me for putting it so bluntly, but are you a fucking idiot? Or am I missing something?
Alice-long time friend (presumably doesn't lie to you)
Kathy- talks shit about her ex (if she talks shit about him, why wouldn't she talk shit about you)
Bill- You don't have any reason to think anything bad about him except what Kathy says, and according to your long time friend is saying the same thing about you. If you can't trust alice she shouldn't be your friend and you should know after two years whether you can trust her or not. Sounds to me like alice has good reason to hate this kathy person, who best is someone who makes it her habit of talking badly about her ex, and at worst is someone with serious emotional problems that makes up lies about anyone she gets invovled with. Bottom line: cut Kathy out of your life immediately and apologise to your long time friend for doubting her.

I'm with Grover.


It's blunt, but good advice. Kathy is apparantly a liar. There could be more...maybe this Bill fellow does have a small penis. Even if she isn't lying about that, it just goes to show you how trustworthy she really is. If Bill does have a small penis, don't you think he cares if it's being spread around by someone who is obviously known to have experience with it? It isn't right. She isn't right. She isn't trustworthy. Whether she is lying or not, she is not trustworthy.


And girls lie. Alice may be your friend, but I've had "friends" lie to me. It's nothing surprising. Perhaps Alice is jealous of youre "friendship" with Kathy. This part is up to you. It's the whole trust thing, man.

Ya know...that little thing that holds together everything?

Grover, at first I was inclined to see it your way. What causes me to wonder however, is that

a) Alice once told me, right after I met her, that she used to be a compulsive liar. I also have reason to believe that she might be into me as more than a friend but I am not interested in her.
b) Kathy is honestly a caring person. It is hard to describe her exactly but, yes she can be a bitch, but she can also be very sentimental and emotional.

Maybe I'm just prejudiced by what I want to believe. I want to believe that Kathy didn't say that stuff. Hmm. Thanks for the varying opinions though, it's something to think about.

Well, if alice said she was once a compulsive liar that definitely changes things.
Two important questions. 1) How does Alice claim she came across this information. 2) More importantly, was alice aware of what kathy had said about Bill. If she didn't know, it's too big of a coincidence that she would say kathy said the same things about you and would indicate alice isn't lying.

1) mutual friend of theirs told Alice what Kathy had said, I came up in the conversation somehow
2) seems to be pretty common knowledge that this Bill guy was abusive. anybody who knows who kathy is knows that story. Alice was aware of it.

Well, seems the only thing you can do, if possible, to come any closer to figuring out what's going on is asking the mutual friend of alice and kathy if she said anything. If her story meshes with alice's then they're probably both telling the truth. If what she says contradicts what alice said then one of them is lying.

Alright I might try to do that. I appreciate the insight, it's hard to think straight when you're troubled :)

Thanks.

are the chicks cute? wanna post some pics?

fucking girls, man.


yea you want to believe them. you really want to. but its just so fucking hard.

I"m gonna go along with most of the others and say Kathy's probably the one lying.

As for alice, she said she USED to be a compulsive lier about TWO YEARS AGO, so that means she's been relatively truthful for at least two years. Yes compulsive liers continue to lie sometimes, its a difficult habit to break, but it can be broken....so unless you know that she's been lying to you recently (other than this situation) ...like in the past 6 months to a year, then I"d believe her

Spookz............shut up!

jealous? ok then, are you cute?