Life is circular. Existence, that is, life and existence is a cycle that constantly recurs and overlaps it's last occurence. Therefor, one can walk the same path as another has walked before him. And, when one focuses on the existence of a single individual as one circle, then one might have multiple other circles interlocked with their own, hence intertwined destinies and occurrences that happen in conjunction with one another. The Circles can change, grow larger, smaller, interlock with other circles, so on. Comments?

"when one focuses on the existence of a single individual as one circle, then one might have multiple other circles interlocked with their own, hence intertwined destinies and occurrences that happen in conjunction with one another. The Circles can change, grow larger, smaller, interlock with other circles, so on"



i have thought about this before, its interesting, what do you think about each minds focus?. how each mind can focus on anouther mid to make a connection, liekt he more minds focused on the single mind, the better the single mind feels. and more sensation they feel,


try it out test it with a group of people it has results,


peace.

I like circles:)

"when one focuses on the existence of a single individual as one circle, then one might have multiple other circles interlocked with their own, hence intertwined destinies and occurrences that happen in conjunction with one another. The Circles can change, grow larger, smaller, interlock with other circles, so on"



i have thought about this before, its interesting, what do you think about each minds focus?. how each mind can focus on anouther mid to make a connection, liekt he more minds focused on the single mind, the better the single mind feels. and more sensation they feel,


try it out test it with a group of people it has results,


peace.

I think it's a bit harder to link two circles consciously than having it just happen. I, personally, think that's beyond one's direct control, but, the choices one makes can move the circle and end up linking it to another. So although you can just say ok, I'm starting here and ending here, the choices you make decide your future.

I like circles:)

Sweet! So do I! Ooo, crank it up a notch, SPHERES!

Sweet! So do I! Ooo, crank it up a notch, SPHERES!
what about multidimensional spiral-spheres?

Those too.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3281/bcoverrrr1by.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcoverrrr1by.jpg)

Circles within circles within circles.. spiraling all.. transcending from one level to the next.... oh... i see it clearly.

-MT

and lets not forget fractals

Life is circular.
Nope. Life's a straight line. You live, then die. You don't live again, then die again, and rinse, repeat. When you die, you die. You no come back to circulate.

Nope. Life's a straight line. You live, then die. You don't live again, then die again, and rinse, repeat. When you die, you die. You no come back to circulate.
what do you mean? who is 'you'...?

"You" means "you". What the hell, it's not that fucking hard to understand the meaning of the word "you". Simple fact is, life is linear, not circular. You die, that's it.

One chance, and that's it? Why? Why is this life the only life we have? By who's decree? Why aren't we born again after death? Do you think there's a heaven or hell?

Unfortunately using a circle implies stasis however if one allows for time one has a spiral and a spiral I can relate too better..... but shit hey, a circles a good start...ha

You're just giving it more scientific, how shall we say, statistical wording. But yeah, that too...

"You" means "you". What the hell, it's not that fucking hard to understand the meaning of the word "you". Simple fact is, life is linear, not circular. You die, that's it.
but what IS 'you'? think about it. dnt just dismiss the question

You is the perception of individuality and uniqueness we feel when we are bound to bodies by consciousness. After death, when our bodies are gone, there is no "you", we are as water, we rejoin the river, and all is one, until we are once again drawn out of the river into a new body.

Unfortunately using a circle implies stasis however if one allows for time one has a spiral and a spiral I can relate too better..... but shit hey, a circles a good start...ha

Actually, a sphere is infinitessimal and more apt to constant change, whereas a spiral, although not a solid stasis, is simply a continuing stasis.

Actually, a sphere is infinitessimal and more apt to constant change, whereas a spiral, although not a solid stasis, is simply a continuing stasis.
i agree wit you abot 'you'. but did you know that the drawn spiral is the first found art form?

I also am awae of the sense of fractal dynamics. When for instance i have psychedelic experience tere is a sense of going in in in in in ......etc. especially with eyes shut, which i couod compare with mathematica fractals. keepin mind map aint the terrirory. so hey, why not BOTH anyhow. otherwise we can get lost in abstracts
not that you do. i feel you very direct

Being direct can be a weakness, going straight to the point makes it hard to understand what's around you instead of just point a and point b. But thank you.

Being direct can be a weakness, going straight to the point makes it hard to understand what's around you instead of just point a and point b. But thank you.
well dirst seeing is direct seeing.
i also like some Taoist nd Zen poetry. it also is very direct....
but i also can accomodate what you mean too

Of course, direct, but not TOO direct, any extreme can be negative.

Of course, direct, but not TOO direct, any extreme can be negative.
hmmmm, MAybe we are misdefning 'direct' for each other, and getting crossed lines

I see it like tis: to DIRECTLY see emperor's sorry arse hangin out

i am very aware of direct seeing when having ingested psychedelic substance, and experience is far from 'negative' ...it is something else

and i go back to those Zen and Taoist poems. they are direct right? that is teir beauty. i donna see nuthin negative about them

NOW, i i were to be too direct with a person. too 'honest' about my opinion of thier appearance, character, and was cruel. then yes, THAt directness IS negative

Exactly, TOO direct is negative. Because TOO direct is an extreme on the spectrum.

but what IS 'you'? think about it. dnt just dismiss the question
You is you. You is not me. Me is me. Methinks you've been spending too much time around those guys... :D


One chance, and that's it?
Yup.


Why is this life the only life we have?
Because there is no god, no afterlife, etc.


Do you think there's a heaven or hell?
Obviously not.

Why such a doomed view on everything?

Being direct can be a weakness, going straight to the point makes it hard to understand what's around you instead of just point a and point b. But thank you.


that is true, but ofcourse has is exceptions ofcourse, do you apply this to your martial training?,


peace.

well dirst seeing is direct seeing.
i also like some Taoist nd Zen poetry. it also is very direct....
but i also can accomodate what you mean too


wich zen and daoist poets and philosophers do you like?

peace.

Why such a doomed view on everything?


you have to accept certain things about other peoples personal views and life choices, i understand wha your saying, first of all heaven and hell has nothing to do with the philosophy of a god, or eternal force as you know bieng daoist,

its like trying to tell a hardcore muslim or christian there god dosent exist, you will fail, even when trying to explain its a possibility that a god like energy could exist in this vast universe that we have no real understanding about its origin,


a debate is not open in these type of situations, its a closed book, if you wish to discuss these type of things then you will get a better and more constructive debate from a person who hasnt got such a set mind state and structure of opinion of whats right and wrong,


peace.

you have to accept certain things about other peoples personal views and life choices, i understand wha your saying, first of all heaven and hell has nothing to do with the philosophy of a god, or eternal force as you know bieng daoist,

its like trying to tell a hardcore muslim or christian there god dosent exist, you will fail, even when trying to explain its a possibility that a god like energy could exist in this vast universe that we have no real understanding about its origin,


a debate is not open in these type of situations, its a closed book, if you wish to discuss these type of things then you will get a better and more constructive debate from a person who hasnt got such a set mind state and structure of opinion of whats right and wrong,


peace.


Actually, I don't really consider myself a taoist anymore...no allegiance to any particular philosophy, I just accept wisdom and knowledge from all it's sources...

that is true, but ofcourse has is exceptions ofcourse, do you apply this to your martial training?,


peace.


I apply lots of things to my martial training.

You is you. You is not me. Me is me. Methinks you've been spending too much time around those guys... :D

'you' is what you thinkyou are. your likes dislikes addres where you live hopes fears past etc. but teres more to you ta you think. so when 'YOU' dies the you you dont know about.......?

Yup.


Because there is no god, no afterlife, etc.


Obviously not.
whe someone dies you see babies born dont you. so there IS an afterlife. do you agree?

whe someone dies you see babies born dont you. so there IS an afterlife. do you agree?

NO!!! they're not REBORN, they're only born, new human beings, they're not the same human beings born again!!!!! there is only life, not afterlife!!!!

NO!!! they're not REBORN, they're only born, new human beings, they're not the same human beings born again!!!!! there is only life, not afterlife!!!!
yes i no...and hey, how many exclamation marks yo got left. yu mustbe runnin out soon

i was being very ---errr clever. you've read it wrong. thik about what hesaid:
there is no 'after life' right. and i said , yes there is. when someone dies a baby is born. didn't mean that someone...dig. i meant life goes on.

ok luv?guuuud. reeelax

wrong!!!!! it's impossible for me to die. i'm always reincarnated. but i really agree with you about those patriarchal denigrated female natural mushroom psychedelic feelings. yes, i am only a body, the spirit does not exist, i hate it!!!!! and... animals are not machines, they're Organic. NO!!... it's just an empty word, your'e wrong!!!

wrong!!!!! it's impossible for me to die. i'm always reincarnated. but i really agree with you about those patriarchal denigrated female natural mushroom psychedelic feelings. yes, i am only a body, the spirit does not exist, i hate it!!!!! and... animals are not machines, they're Organic.
do u evfer hfa haaa gustavo feelin?

Sorry. You've Eaten too many drugs. I don't know what you're talking about.

whe someone dies you see babies born dont you. so there IS an afterlife. do you agree?
No. Babies are born as fast as people die because some people can't stop fuckin' and other people can't stop killin'.


do u evfer hfa haaa gustavo feelin?
:bugeye:
What?

No. Babies are born as fast as people die because some people can't stop fuckin' and other people can't stop killin'.

qs fast as, later than. point is there IS life after death right? yu said tere wasn't didnne yu
:bugeye:
What?
personal, between me and s/he

There is no "life after death, in terms of "living after death in another dimension or realm", which is what you were talking about.

There is no "life after death, in terms of "living after death in another dimension or realm", which is what you were talking about.
you seem sure. now...how do you KNOW?

Maybe he's one of those zombie people's like from that zombie survival guide link in the "do you believe in vampires" thread in subcultures.

you seem sure. now...how do you KNOW?


he dosent know, but he believes he knows and thats good enough for him


leave him be,

peace.

he dosent know, but he believes he knows and thats good enough for him


leave him be,

peace.
no.

You could argue that if it is allright to have faith in an afterlife without actually knowing, then it is OK to have faith in no afterlife, without actually knowing. If that's not too screwed up? I don't know!

You could argue that if it is allright to have faith in an afterlife without actually knowing, then it is OK to have faith in no afterlife, without actually knowing. If that's not too screwed up? I don't know!
yes, that makes gret sense. and thats what i basically mean. HOWcan we know?....we may have clus...for example NDEs.....but must remember that what is exprienced may depend on the prson's belief system. ie., a Westerner may exprince the classic 'tunnel' and 'loving spirit' etc, whereas an Indian may have a more gruesome encounter wit the 'Lord of Death'

but because of these cultural variations does this man that there is no actual sense of awareness post mortem?

Are you sure there are these cultural differences? I hadn't heard of those before. I thought it was all white light and tunnels?

Are you sure there are these cultural differences? I hadn't heard of those before. I thought it was all white light and tunnels?
No apparently not...i have notes about this too--may try nd find them if i remember
some of the Indian NDEs I have ead seem pretty grim, quite strange really considering some of teir florid mythological motifs. but its like them having their 'limbs' cut off....!....and the 'life review' may just involve a book, not the video experiences some Westerners may have

so from what i have read it seems to point to the inference that when pole have these experiences they take with them their ingrained assumptions

I found this site. It mentions an example of the dismemberment you mentioned:

http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html

It says there are differences between the NDEs in the West and the East, and links them to the different cultures, just as you have done.

you seem sure. now...how do you KNOW?
Because god does not exist, and the existence of an afterlife implies the existence of gods, which DO NOT EXIST.

Because god does not exist, and the existence of an afterlife implies the existence of gods, which DO NOT EXIST.
do your dreams 'exist' WHEN you are dreaming?

That not the same thing, you ponce. Gods are delusions, and thus, afterlives are delusions. When you die, you die, no do-overs, no mulligans, no ghosts, no reincarnations, no returns. Period. End-of-story.

That not the same thing, you ponce.

me))why not cheekyboy?? when you dream what you experiencing is xisting when it is

Gods are delusions, and thus, afterlives are delusions. When you die, you die, no do-overs, no mulligans, no ghosts, no reincarnations, no returns. Period. End-of-story.
who ya trying to convince mr, me or YOU??

no.


ok then fair enough its your choice.


but it is futile.


peace.

Gods are delusions, and thus, afterlives are delusions. .I don't see the connection. Can you explain? Why would the absence of an afterlife be evidence for the non-existence of God? Why would the existence of a God require that there be an afterlife? And so on. It doesn't make sense, does it?

That not the same thing, you ponce. Gods are delusions, and thus, afterlives are delusions. When you die, you die, no do-overs, no mulligans, no ghosts, no reincarnations, no returns. Period. End-of-story.


Can you honestly say that you can imagine not existing? Like total nonexistence, no spirit, no nothing? Just gone? I can't.

You can't because are afraid to to, and fear simply gives rise to more fear. Stop being afraid and face logic.

You can't because are afraid to to, and fear simply gives rise to more fear. Stop being afraid and face logic.
hahaha....your right AND wrong. tell yer 'logic' to work THAT one out

yes thee is logic, but we usually use a limited logic right. this limited logic is still caught in 'either or' territory right...? wrong?

yes death IS the end........

end

what is oppo-site to 'end'?

d'ya get me?

You can't because are afraid to to, and fear simply gives rise to more fear. Stop being afraid and face logic.

Logic, eh? Ok, I derived from logic that for all intents and purposes, I would be reincarnated. The idea that death is the absolute eternal end DOES NOT FIT into the way everything works. I also derived that life, death, everything I see, hear, feel, and otherwise sense, is a total illusion, fabricated by my mind to hide/protect me from the truth. And that once that truth is found death will only be a memory, not a spectre haunting ever closer on my footsteps. Logic is entirely interpretive, what makes sense to you makes little sense to me.

Logic is a usefull tool. A wrench is a usefull tool for working on a car engine, but I wouldn't find it very helpfull for baking. Is it not possible, Hapsburg, that logic has its limits of usefullness?

Is it not possible, Hapsburg, that logic has its limits of usefullness?
No.

Leaping head first into the maw...wisdom is a virtue, I suppose...

Funny, because the limits of logic (specifically, axiomatic logic) have been proven mathematically (http://www.miskatonic.org/godel.html).

"all logical systems of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete"

Absolution is a myth, there is no one true power or perfect system, logic serves it's purpose, as does math and science and mere speculation and to that end, belief. Relying wholly on one component is dooming oneself, as you can see.

I see it will be impossible to convince you religionists that there is no afterlife...

:rolleyes:

Religion? Ew...

forgive his closed mind.

its not his fault let him fade out into the background like a tree in a forest,

he see's anybody with a touch of spirituality to be some kind of religious cultist.


peace.

I see it will be impossible to convince you religionists that there is no afterlife...

:rolleyes:
the arrogance of youth you'll

...?

...?
what i mean is we do not know..cant know..wont know. if you say 'just nothing, no memory' how do u know? if heafven, a restingplace, hell--how do you know?

the very eolithic people beliefed they returned to the Mother.......are no images 'there'--areno feelings there? no awarenesses?---does it alternate like sleep does, like consciousness does....
we dont know life never mind death

For me, religion, or the lack there of, is a personal matter. I do not try to push my views onto other people, and I resent people trying to push their views on me.

Religion is a matter of faith, and as such is not really subject to logic.

However I can get riled up when someone tries to "prove" their religion is true.

TTFN

Well, technically, he's trying to get you to prove that his view is correct yourself....which, consequentially, would get you all riled up at yourself for having done so....pretty clever, if you think about it...I bet he saw you coming...