I'm slightly confused by the healthcare bill that was passed and should be in effect in 2014 where everyone is forced to pay into health insurance. Exactly what happens to homeless? They would have no money to pay so would they instantly be fined? Do the fines build up over time? Are they going to prison if they don't pay? I'm just curious.

I think they'd get free care because they have no income...or if they do have an income, it's too small to let them get a home, so they're still really poor.
Not everybody has to pay in-the really poor get medicaid. The kinda poor get subsidized insurance.

Right now I qualify for reduced cost care with the county b/c I don't make much...county care's crappy.

So the really poor and homeless will probably...keep lurching along with the same level of care that's been shortening their lifespan all along. There you have it folks.

Edited to add-part of the reason I tried to just pay out-of-pocket for so long? The county system gives me an abiding feeling that someone, somewhere, considers me excess population.
It's not a feeling that inspires confidence in the interns who actually do all the work with almost no supervision.
So one bureaucrat sees us as excess population because we're indigent patients, and another bureaucrat sees us as great people for interns to make all their boneheaded medical mistakes on.

I'm slightly confused by the healthcare bill that was passed and should be in effect in 2014 where everyone is forced to pay into health insurance. Exactly what happens to homeless? They would have no money to pay so would they instantly be fined? Do the fines build up over time? Are they going to prison if they don't pay? I'm just curious.

I don't know ? When I was homeless I fell off the radar . It was the only time in my life I truly felt freedom . Didn't have a phone in my hand with ringing all the time , No one to answer to, The food was not always the best , but there is more to life than food for my belly. Beer is good!!!

My guess would be it will be paid by the working class.

My guess would be it will be paid by the working class.

It already has been for quite some time. NO hospital is allowed to turn away anyone who cannot pay or doesn't have insurance - the rest of us make up that payment by what we're charged whenever WE wind up in the hospital.

The health-car law doesn't affect that situation one bit.

My care gets paid for through a county sales tax, FWIW, and since my income is pretty much my outgo...well, I contribute to that.
One of the proposals floating around at one point was to create a public-option plan, as an alternative to the heath insurers, paid for by a national sales tax.

Admittedly, sales taxes are regressive-they hit people like me who can save little to nothing hardest, but I could have lived with it.


NO hospital is allowed to turn away anyone who cannot pay or doesn't have insurance ...if they are actively dying, they have to be rendered not actively dying.
They have to be stabilized, not fixed, that's all.

If they are merely ill they can turn them away all they like.

So chronically ill people like me? we can pay or just go get stuffed.

This health care bill includes everyone to RECEIVE health care but only those who either are working or own businesses (if those businesses choose to pay) to pay into the system to finance it. You see it is meant to insure even if you aren't a citizen, aren't working, homeless or incapacitated to receive care and assistance no matter what it costs everyone else. :mad:

Homeless, destitute people qualify for Medicaid, health insurance provided courtesy of the government. Under the new Patient Protection and Care Act those who are working and not able to secure healthcare insurance will be required to pay what they can for healthcare insurance. They get a subsidy from the government making healthcare insurance affordable.

So the claim that people are going to be fined for not purchasing something they cannot afford is just not true. Healthcare insurance under PPCA will be affordable.
And people will not be tossed into jail for not carrying healthcare insurance. That is another myth promulgated by the right wing and the health industry to scare the uninformed.

So the claim that people are going to be fined for not purchasing something they cannot afford is just not true

But they can "opt out" and that's not right if everyone is supposed to be putting in. :mad:

This health care bill includes everyone to RECEIVE health care but only those who either are working or own businesses (if those businesses choose to pay) to pay into the system to finance it. You see it is meant to insure even if you aren't a citizen, aren't working, homeless or incapacitated to receive care and assistance no matter what it costs everyone else. :mad:

Wrong again Cosmic. First indigent people today are afforded healthcare through a program called Medicaid and that program is funded by the federal and state governments. It has nothing to do with the Patient Protection and Care Act (PPCA).

The PPCA increases the number of people paying into the healthcare system by requiring those who are not now paying into the system to pay what is affordable to them.

The US healthcare system today is funded almost entirely by the government and employers and employees. Those without healthcare insurance are receiving healthcare, but not paying for it. Under PPCA they are required to pay what they can reasonably afford to pay.

But they can "opt out" and that's not right if everyone is supposed to be putting in. :mad:

Just who can opt out Cosmic?

...Those without healthcare insurance are receiving healthcare, but not paying for it. That is how it is working here in Detroit, and there are a lot of folks in that boat.

I also enjoyed the freedom of being homeless for a time, though I enjoy having a home and food more. :o Also, I got Southern Comfort instead of beer - beggars can't be choosers, there was a bottle, an offer, and I was in need of something after not eating anything for 3 days.

Just who can opt out Cosmic?

WASHINGTON—Employers are concerned about legislation, which President Barack Obama endorsed last week, that would accelerate when states could seek approval to opt out of key provisions in the health care reform law in favor of their own reform measures.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsurance.com%2Fartic le%2F20110306%2FISSUE01%2F303069978&ei=1rd8TcfVEJGWtwedooCcCA&usg=AFQjCNH8FeH19DX4QbdXe9FlxTn2Fp0Oyg


EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”

Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274


There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. More...



Continue reading on Examiner.com: If you are Muslim you can opt out of the Obamacare health care reform laws with no penalties - Phoenix Small Business Management | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/small-business-management-in-phoenix/if-you-are-muslim-you-can-opt-out-of-the-obamacare-health-care-reform-laws-with-no-penalties#ixzz1GTyDdtMm

There are also some states trying to 'opt out' via the courts, and I think it was the governor of Arkansas who stated that - failing the court challenge - his state would try to 'opt out' of the union as an alternative. :shrug:

EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”

Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274

There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. More...



Nope

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/

Arthur

Wrong again Cosmic

Well Joe I've posted my proof can't you at least say something?

Well Joe I've posted my proof can't you at least say something?

Well here is your problem Cosmic, there is a religious exemption as you point out. But it up to the administration as to how that is intrepreted. And using history as a guide, becuase this exemption exists also for recipients of Social Security, there will be very few if any exemptions.

http://jacksonville.com/carole-fader/2010-05-16/story/fact-person-can-apply-exemption-if-he-religious-sect-member

As for Islam, they don't seem to have a problem with Social Security and Medicare which contain a host of insurance products. In fact the legal name for Social Security is Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance. Since Muslims in this country have no trouble with Social Security why should they have issues with Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act?

Your claim just does not make sense Cosmic. It sounds like more Republican/Tea Part fear mongering.

Well here is your problem Cosmic, there is a religious exemption as you point out.
Your claim just does not make sense Cosmic. It sounds like more Republican/Tea Part fear mongering.

You just can't admit that you were wrong can you. You said I was wrong but I provided you with AN EXEMPTION OR TWO and yet you still don't say I have proven my point.

You just can't admit that you were wrong can you. You said I was wrong but I provided you with AN EXEMPTION OR TWO and yet you still don't say I have proven my point.


The exemptions you are referencing are the same exemptions used for other federal insurance programs like Social Security. How many of those religious exemptions are being applied to Social Security? The same number is likely to be applied to the new health care law. And that number is nill.

And your allegation that Muslims would be expempted is just silly. How many Muslims apply for exemptions from Social Security? None.

Exemptions are not automatic, they must be approved by the administration. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. There is no evidence that expemptions will be applied for or granted en masse. That is just sillyness Cosmic.

Well, I was really happy that Medicare was there to pay for old Mom's care in the nursing care. "Old Age Security" is what they call it in Canada, and that is what is is.

If you don't like it now, just wait a few years and you will begin to appreciate it for what it takes care of ;)

Unless, that is, you wish to join me in my diet and exercise regimen. :D

*listens to the crickets*

Yeah, that is what I thought.

There is no evidence that expemptions will be applied for or granted en masse

But they are available if anyone wanted to apply for them and how do you know that no Muslims won't apply?

But they are available if anyone wanted to apply for them and how do you know that no Muslims won't apply?

They have not done it for Social Security, so why would they do it for PPCA? Additionally you are forgetting that exemptions must be approved by the Secretary of Health and Welfare. The government has shown no indication that would be generous with personal exemptions especially if these people are likely to show up for care in our healthcare system. Unlike other American religions groups, Muslims are not adverse to medical treatement.

First indigent people today are afforded healthcare through a program called Medicaid

Not correct in my state.

You can only qualify for Medicaid in my state if (a) you have been on social security benefits for A YEAR (and how you're supposed to pay for your care for that year, I dunno-I think the answer to that is they kinda hope you croak...)

or (b) you are female, unmarried, under the income threshold, and are pregnant or have popped out a child and said child is under 18.

I'm lucky enough to live in an urban county with a low-income health system...most of the rural counties have nothing.


Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill.

I've never heard that from anywhere, and I have a friend who grew up Muslim...I think he would have said in the debates we've had on Obamacare.

Besides that, do you know how many Muslim doctors there are? The immigrant Muslim community has that general Asian cultural trend of making their kids study hard. They like to push their kids to be doctors, among other good, high-paying careers. You'd think they'd be for their kids getting paid...

Not correct in my state.

You can only qualify for Medicaid in my state if (a) you have been on social security benefits for A YEAR (and how you're supposed to pay for your care for that year, I dunno-I think the answer to that is they kinda hope you croak...)

or (b) you are female, unmarried, under the income threshold, and are pregnant or have popped out a child and said child is under 18.

I'm lucky enough to live in an urban county with a low-income health system...most of the rural counties have nothing.

Yes that is true, it does not cover all indigent people unfortunately.

Hi,,,
The Obama care act has been highly criticized by many of the Americans.They are many flaws in the health care act.As the health insurance is quite expensive so you said it right most of the people still can't afford it.

Yes many including myself have been critical of PPCA (aka Obamacare). However, it is a baby step in the right direction. Healthcare insurance is indeed expensive in the United States. But under PPCA (aka Obamacare), those who cannot afford the price of healthcare will get federal subsidies making healthcare insurance affordable for every individual. The amount of subsidy is commensurate with the ability of the individual to pay...that makes sense. But is is not the ultimate solution for America's healthcare problems.

PPCA (Obamacare) attempts to control healthcare costs by making everyone share in the cost to the degree they are able to do so and by regulating healthcare insurance costs like a utility. It also starts collecting best practice information something one finds in all high quality organizations and operations and something that is not done today in the United States.

My problem with PPCA (aka Obamacare) is that it still leaves in place the disfunctional oligopolies in the American healthcare industry. And as long as those market structures are left in place healthcare costs will continue to rise faster than one would expect or could be justified in a truely open competitve healthcare market.

Ultimately the only solution to America's healthcare problem is to adopt the model used by other industrial countries, the single payer model. PPCA (aka Obamacare) is a baby step in the right direction. It is not the ultimate fix or cure for what ails the American healthcare system. Given the power of the healthcare special interests in Washington, it is a miracle that PPCA (aka Obamacare) happened at all. PPCA is a baby step, a first step in the right direction.

I looked up the word indigent at dictionary.com:

–adjective
1.
lacking food, clothing, and other necessities of life because of poverty; needy; poor; impoverished.

2.
Archaic .
a.
deficient in what is requisite.
b.
destitute (usually followed by of ).
–noun
3.
a person who is indigent.

I always cringe when I hear the word "indigent." It makes me angry, because I hear the word "indigent" and I think of some crusty bum who smells of vodka.
I work full-time. But I can't afford state risk pool insurance.
I can't pay out of pocket for the care I need either.
My company's insurance plan is jaw-droppingly crappy... I could pay $225 a month for it and have $35 MAXIMUM monthly prescription coverage, and a yearly cap of $2000 hospitalization...with a $500 deductible...:mad:

Do y'all think that is worth buying???

So I'm enrolled in the health program for "indigent" county residents...grr...

I looked up the word indigent at dictionary.com:


I always cringe when I hear the word "indigent." It makes me angry, because I hear the word "indigent" and I think of some crusty bum who smells of vodka.
I work full-time. But I can't afford state risk pool insurance.
I can't pay out of pocket for the care I need either.
My company's insurance plan is jaw-droppingly crappy... I could pay $225 a month for it and have $35 MAXIMUM monthly prescription coverage, and a yearly cap of $2000 hospitalization...with a $500 deductible...:mad:

Do y'all think that is worth buying???

So I'm enrolled in the health program for "indigent" county residents...grr...

Indigent is not a bad word. Many of us including myself had very humble origins. Low paying jobs and those who occupy them are needed and important too.

Low paying jobs and those who occupy them are needed and important too.
True that...somebody's always gotta swab the toilets.

Although the guy who vacuums the port-a-cans? he makes 40K a year.

I could put up with a lot of crap for 40K a year :xctd: