I suppose you all know what VIP stands for, don`t you? It means Very Important Person.

Have you ever noticed WHO are those Very Important People? Yeah, well... they are rich people. So what? Rich people are very important because they are rich, because they have a lot of money? Why they have all privileges (including life...)? Why, for example, Titanic`s First Class passangers were all saved and the Third Class was mostly drowned?

The question is: Do our society valorize money more than life?

It seems so. Look for wars, for all kinds of violence; people killing other people to get money...

Do you respect those that has no money? It seems that our society don`t. Otherwise, why would we have a kind of class where the ´important` person is rich? And intelligence? And Love? What makes someone really important?

Perhaps we should reevaluate our definition or ´Important`...?:rolleyes:
Or perhaps our values... what do you think...?:bugeye: :eek: :o

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Have you ever noticed WHO are those Very Important People? Yeah, well... they are rich people. So what? Rich people are very important because they are rich, because they have a lot of money? Why they have all privileges (including life...)? Why, for example, Titanic`s First Class passangers were all saved and the Third Class was mostly drowned?

Sadly, yes, since one life equals to another, the next thing to weigh it on is wealth.


The question is: Do our society valorize money more than life?

Well sometimes, you are creating a loophole here. First class = first priority (more importance).


It seems so. Look for wars, for all kinds of violence; people killing other people to get money...

Money can do that...


Do you respect those that has no money? It seems that our society don`t. Otherwise, why would we have a kind of class where the ´important` person is rich? And intelligence? And Love? What makes someone really important?

What they do.


Perhaps we should reevaluate our definition or ´Important`...?:rolleyes:
Or perhaps our values... what do you think...?:bugeye: :eek: :o

Everyone has their own definition. Who would you save, your family member or a stranger?

You value your family member more. The family member's life is equal to that of the stranger, from there you start to weigh other factors that determine importance to you. And that is what they did in Titanic.

When you're talking about a company which sells a service as the VIP service then yes, the more wealthy are the more important TO THAT COMPANY.

Someone will to spend more money on a company is more important TO THAT COMPANY.

Not in general, just TO THAT COMPANY.

Yes Tyler, that is what I meant by a "loophole"

If I owned a business, I would save the person that has 1 billion dollars worth of stocks than another who only has 10 dollars worth.

In no way am I disregarding the value of life. I don't like it when people start loopholes, loopholes lead to other loopholes.

Oh, and Nelson I'm going to go join xev now in killing myself.

Welcome back Truthseeker! I'm glad to see you posting again.

Yes, I think our society valorizes money. It's human instinct to be capitalist. And unfortunately, some of the richest people are too stupid to understand to responsibilities of being rich. Philanthropists are few and far between among the rich. Bill Gates was sort of a philanthropist. He donated quite a bit of money to charity. The most notable, though, would have to be Rockeffeler. Now he was a smart many. I respect that guy a lot.


Anyways, as I was saying.....we're capatalist because we want power. The more money we have, the more powerful we are. If someone wishes to become powerful, then they'll basically bootlick powerful people, or at least show a submission of some sort. Look at the behaviour of the very social monkey? They display that pretty well.

Basically, we should learn to overcome these animal instincts. In order for humans to reach a higher level, we have to take care of eachother personally. There are enough resources to go around. Being communist is counterproductive, though. Keep that in mind.
Forcing people to share never works. The best kind of charity is when the donor and the recipient know who the other person is. That way, the donor will be inclined to give again, or recieve if need be, and the recipient visa versa.

Also, I think it's obvious that we valorize money over human life. Why else would kids be living on the streets? Capitalism has two faces to it. But compared to the alternative, it's much better. YOu see, in modern socialism (the communist left wing) people are forced to do good deeds. It's a more capitalistic form of charity than capitalistic charity -- see what I'm saying. Those leftist hippies hold a bigger evil over their heads.

People don't have to share everything, they just need to learn to help people when they need it, and to accept help when they themselves need it. And voila, the world will be a better place.
Modern socialism (democratic communism) doesnt work well enough. Private charities are ten times better.


And one more thing. Never vote left, Truthseeker. Modern Socialism does NOT work.

/WB

Originally posted by Elbaz
Never vote left... Modern Socialism does NOT work.In truth, the whole left-wing/right-wing concept of a political spectrum is outdated and can no longer represent all possible systems.

The fight between the right and the left is merely a struggle between two groups, one large and poor, the other small and rich. The object of the struggle the material gains accruing from control of Government machinery. As long as the Government makes the seizure of wealth a legalized privilege, the struggle for that privilege goes on (apologies to Albert Nock for poor paraphrasing).

Don’t vote left. Don’t vote right. Vote the candidate that best represents your views.

Peace.

Hey Elbaz, what about Switzerland?

I'm talking more along the lines of Don't vote NDP/Communist. It just doesn't work. Look no further than the Canadian province of BC, and the damages done there.

I don't think you should vote fascits either. Infact, the more radical you become, the more similar you become to the radicals on the opposite side of the spectrum. Interesting fact.


Oh, and Switzerland is a completely different thing. I don't consider it what we would call modern socialism. The people basically pay their government for a service, IE healthcare, and things are taken care of. Freeloaders are very rare due to the economic conditions and social structure which exists there and in very few other places.

Socialism doesn't work because people are greedy. Capitalistic. We have to learn to work with capitalism. Not against it.

Tyler and ~The_Chosen~,

About the ´loophole`...
It seems alright for me...
But my point is that people even kill for money. And there is corruption. And those kinds of thing...

Besides that, a competitive system seems to attract this kind of differentiation and also the violence...


Oh, and Nelson I'm going to go join xev now in killing myself.

Yeah... you and Xev always have fundamental comments to post...
I couldn`t sleep without this information...
Thank you very much...:o


Elbaz,

I don`t know much about socialism...
But social democracy works very well in Canada. Just look at Canada`s development rank in the world! First since I don`t know when! (more then ten years... I guess...) :)


Forcing people to share never works.

It never works and is stupid!
Why do that??
You know... if you give willingly, with Love and with no pride, it feels really good :) To simply give is very good. We should make a system like that. unfortunatly, it seems that we are very far from that... :( People are too attached to material goods... :(

Note: BC`s problem is because the liberals are a maiority there. The problem is not the social democracy, but the liberals that are abusing the power of their maiority.

Just look to the rest of the country! The problem is in BC because of the liberals` maiority, not the social democratic system...!

Hi Truthseeker,


I don`t know much about socialism...
But social democracy works very well in Canada. Just look at Canada`s development rank in the world! First since I don`t know when! (more then ten years... I guess...)

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. We can have a very high rank in anything, but that doesn't really mean all that much for our future. Canada's world ranking in wealth has slipped like 15 places in the last few years. Is the rest of the world getting richer, or is Canada getting poorer. Truth is, it doesn't make a difference. Canada's accumulated debt is huge. The liberals plant to pay it off in 80 years. 80 years!!! That's way too long. Do you realize what a burden it'll be on generation y? Our economy will suffer thanks to this social democracy, and no matter how much more money we try and scrounge, and throw at our systems, they will deteriorate, and our ranking in the world will sink even further. Lefties aren't fiscally responsible, and that damages the very thing they're trying to spend money on. In the 70's, left was in, and Countries became caught up in mushrooming debts.

I'm not really talking about not voting liberal, as they are more of a moderate party, I'm just saying don't vote for parties like the NDP. VERy bad idea. THey do nothing but waste money.


Just look to the rest of the country! The problem is in BC because of the liberals` maiority, not the social democratic system...!

The New Democratic party was in power in BC before those pesky liberals. They did ALOT of damage. Do a search on the net. They really screwed around with the system and wasted a ton of money.


It never works and is stupid!
Why do that??
You know... if you give willingly, with Love and with no pride, it feels really good To simply give is very good. We should make a system like that. unfortunatly, it seems that we are very far from that... People are too attached to material goods...

Exactly! Charity is very important. If everybody gave 5-10% of their income to various charities, IN GOOD WILL, everything would be much better for everyone. It's not that simple though.......

Elbaz,

I have the impression you focus in the liberals and so on instead of focusing in the problems (debts, corruption, etc...). It seems you think the problem is the social democracy, but you are looking to the debts. What is the problem with the system? Because debts, every single country in this world has (probably an hyperbole...:p)...

Anyways... the discussion in this thread is not that one...
I guess if people would find pleasure on sharing instead of retaining possessions, people would be happier. A person who gives wholeheartly is actually happier than a person that is obscessed in keep everything for his or herself... :)

Tthe problem is that our culture teaches the exact opposite - that having tons of meaningless things gives pleasure. Well, the truth is that it doesn`t. See for example a car. There are many people that dream to have a car (ewwww). Than, this person buys the car. In one month the stress caused is easily seen. Yyou not only spend tons of money to buy the car but also tons of money to mantain it, to fix it, to fill it up with gasoline... And the stress in Trafic Jams is considerable. That`s why I`m saying that we need new values... ;)

QUOTE
Yep Yep
Yes Tyler, that is what I meant by a "loophole"

If I owned a business, I would save the person that has 1 billion dollars worth of stocks than another who only has 10 dollars worth.

In no way am I disregarding the value of life. I don't like it when people start loopholes, loopholes lead to other loopholes
------------------------------------
AND JUST WHEN I THOUGHT THINGS WERE LOOKING UP!!!
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

PEOPLE USE THE BUSINESS TO HIDE BEHIND WHEN THEy TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ANOTHER PERSON!

it is more commonly known as "BUSINESS IS BUSINESS"

its called being a "sub" human
it is not human nature!
it is perverted greed
-and you think a suicide bomber is the bad person...???:rolleyes:
ssshhhhheeeeeeeeesssssssshhhhhhhhhhh

IF PARENTS CARED ENOUGH ABOUT THIER CHILDREN THEY WOULD NOT SHOVE A SILVER SPOON IN THIER MOUTH!

and so we would not have the saying!


the earth has a few more thousand years left in her
so im sure we will all get another go....? maybe...
cos we sure aint winning in this one!

if i was to enjoy watching people dying from natural disasters
would that make me any different than a company that produced military weapons?
can we call that cultural differences?
:D
elitest mountain ski REsorts would be one of my favs!...along with wildfires through wealthy housing estates...
BETTER THAN WATCHING "BURNING MONKS" ANY DAY!

oh please "go on" just have a little thought
you never know]
it might not hurt "that" much

PEACE...LOVE...AND MISSERY TO "ALL" GREEDMERCHANTS
:)

Nothing about being sub-human.

Let's do some math shall we?

Life = infinite value

2 men.

1 businessman that has $1,000,000,000 of stocks in your company. (Let's call him Y)

1 stranger who has nothing in your company. (Let's call him X)

You cannot save them both, you must choose.

:rolleyes: Hmmm...who would I pick?? :rolleyes:

Y = life + $1,000,000,000 of relation to your company

X = life + $0 of relation to your company

Y > X, not in terms of life, but in terms of importance

Y ? X
Life + $1,000,000,000 ? Life + $0
the two infinite values cancel each other out
$1,000,000,000 > $0
Y > X

Do not create the stupid loophole and say I don't value life. Any other human (not sub-human) would do the same.

Point taken~

I don`t think so...
ripleofdeath is right...

You think that the rich is more importamt than the poor just because he is rich. Iif you are a businessman, than you are extremely egoistical!! How would you like not to be saved only because you are poor? :o

Really... our society REALLY valorizes money more than life...! In a disguised way, of course...

The rich man can be greedy, violent and stupid...
The poor lovely, kind and gentle...
Still... the rich is more important than the poor and deserve to live more than the poor (that`s exactly what you said if you pay attention...)

What you said is that life has a price!!!! You said that the rich man can buy his own life with his money!!!!!111 You are saying that the life of a rich man is worth saving more than the life of a poor just because he is rich!! See what you are saying...

The rich man can be greedy, violent and stupid...
The poor lovely, kind and gentle...

But for the most part, it's the other way round. ;)

But for the most part, it's the other way round.

HAHAHAHA!! :D
You are kidding... aren`t you?? :D

hey all

hhmmmmm
i c TruthSeeker must (BY (Q)S' STANDARDS)
BE RICH OF COARSE!!!

is that rite (Q) ...?
because he is sounding fair and reasonable.
baaaaa haaaaa hahahah

you forget the rich child!!!
how many rich people are good parents?
maybe the same number at the start as poor parents...?

BUT
and it is a big BUT...
the war of etrision/poverty and ill health kills off alot of the
"poor bad parents" as well and mostly of, the poor children
where in the situation of the "rich bad parents" the child abuses the power of money to gain more power.

hows that for an equation??? :D

HOW MANY RICH CHILDREN / YOUNG ADULTS
ARE IN PRISON???
do you see a patern or an illusion???
im not sure what the true figures are but its certainly the way it is painted in the media(oxymoron maybe)

think of this
who actualy produces the most amount of products with thier work?
not the rich person
they maintain people in slavery by low wages to maintain thier wealthy life style.
and it is almost always!!!
WHEN YOU GO COLLECTING FOR A CHARITY
THE POOR NEIGHBOURHOODS RAISE MORE MONEY THAN THE RICH!!!
im not into flogging a dead horse so ill leave it there
why is it you need to be RICH to afford a charity dinner ticket if in fact it is for sale in the first place and then they give soo little to the charity....???
ITS VERY SIMPLE
most people with lots of money will step-on and kill who ever they need to to keep making it!
and when the poor people do the same thing it is called crime/- not business!!!

if its not obviouse by now i would suggest one thing!

dont worry
be happy

cos poor people dont jump out windows when they loose all thier money!... mostly :D

who was the last great scientist to be born to a wealthy family and then recieve a wealthy upbringing???

:)

just a quick thought


QUOTE
Sadly, yes, since one life equals to another, the next thing to weigh it on is wealth.
-------------------------

MONEY COMES AND GOES...
AN IMPRESION OF CHARACTER LASTS FOREVER!

WHAT IS WEALTH???

Ok, I simply can't let this go on any longer.

Truthseeker, rippleofdeath:
Why is it so terrible that an institution which exists for the sole purpose of collecting money would not give someone who gives them ALOT of money more prominence than someone who doesn't?

Secondly, if Bill Gates needed a kidney from you, and someone you Loved needed one at the same time, who would you give it to? If you asked a million people, I bet that if people HAD to choose, the number would be well over 80%. Probably somewhere near 99%. So, in that manner, I would think that Gates really wouldn't be a VIP in this particular case. I think it's pretty obvious that our values drive our lives and that is the important part of the equation.

SECONDLY, why exactly are rich people necessarily bad parents? What makes them inherently bad people?

The reason why the tickets are SO expensive is because the money goes to charities!! That's the whole point! The people who go to these things raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for charities. So, yes, when you go door to door in a "rich" neighborhood you might not pick up as much money, because they've given $10k to a charity already. I mean, honestly, do you REALLY think that people are going to put $1000 into a can that you are carrying around? Wouldn't it be safer to just cut a check to a charity and send it in?

Come on, really.

yo dude :)

you need to take me literally
rather than trying to read between the lines
there is soo much lying and deciet these days it is hard enough to explain the truth little-own the fringe of reality - as some might view it.

QUOTE
SECONDLY, why exactly are rich people necessarily bad parents? What makes them inherently bad people?
--------------------------
you ask 2 different questions and refer them to your error in reading that i was being one sided.

i was outlining a set of events!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you have now taken a position of trying to defend wealth
in a debate on philosophical grounds!!!!!!!!!!!

this is quite obstructive!!!! to the important points.
(maybe not your intension)
I QUOTE MYSELF :rolleyes:

BUT
and it is a big BUT...
the war of etrision/poverty and ill health kills off alot of the
"poor bad parents" as well and mostly of, the poor children
where in the situation of the "rich bad parents" the child abuses the power of money to gain more power.
----------------------------------------------------

IN REGARD TO BILL GATES AND HIS IMPENDING KIDNEY AS YOU REFER
he has enough money to buy one!!!!!!
someone will go out and kill someone if they have to to get one for him.... if the price is rite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT SOME PEOPLE WILL DO FOR MONEY IS ONLY LIMITED BY THE IMAGINATION OF THE PAYING PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



SO HOW MANY PEOPLE KILL THIER OWN FAMILY MEMBERS???
40 % of all homiceds i think the figure is!!!


so hence...
where is your base for such idiolgy???
the firm ???
now i know your a b soup
next time wont you
tell the group
:D
or
please expand your theory.


"why do they put cushions on the walls"???

:D

If you cannot see my through my math that is oh so logical...take Calculus and learn about limits, continuity, etc.

Then come talk to me.

Wealthy people are wealthy for one good reason, they are unique and think different.

Not all weathly people are like Uncle Scrooge, rich, greedy, egotistical...and all that bullshit.

I'm sick of this, don't be jealous of the wealthy.

There are bad and good poor people too...:rolleyes:

You that say some don't value life, take a look at the math. 1 life < 1,000,000 lives

Understand? Open your mind for God's sake. :rolleyes:

hey all

The Chosen....
do we have a language barrier???

you have outlined one of my main points yet scrabbled it with something else

most wealth is inherited
thus the family will feel the need to protect its wealth as a
family value.

most people who make millions from invension and such like
are more easily swayed by materilism
is materialism bad???
im not going to commit to that arguement!

my point that i will try and outline more precisely without the flashy sparkles
is
if someone is bad (at heart) they will most likely only GROW with the help of money
to spread that on others
where-as IF someone is POOR they have less ability to affect people around them with thier badness....as such.

does that make more sence???
i hope so
i see no need to get ruffled over debating/textulising in a debating format :)

groove on all :)