a question brought up in another thread..

define spirituality.

i have always associated this with religion and God, but others have said god is not needed for spirituality, i have heard this enough to accept that it is possible,but not enough to communicate how spirituality can exist without god,

so my question is define spirituality in a way that does not include God or religion..
or
how does one achieve spirituality without god?

my spirit and your spirit alone are not god, nor are anyone else's. i've interacted with spirits before that were not the holy spirit (which is only a part of what god is). i think that one of them was an angel, and the rest were human.

By standing up for others even if it is not your battle to fight. Kind gestures and good acts toward another.

By standing up for others even if it is not your battle to fight. Kind gestures and good acts toward another.

what does that have to do with spirits?

what does that have to do with spirits?

there is a difference between spirits and spirituality...

there is a difference between spirits and spirituality...

They go hand in hand actually...

I drink some spirits, and I find myself feeling quite spiritual..

Sorry, I couldn't resist..:)

They go hand in hand actually...

I drink some spirits, and I find myself feeling quite spiritual..

Sorry, I couldn't resist..:)

had to make up for not taking advantage of the fruit comment eh?

had to make up for not taking advantage of the fruit comment eh?

Yeah, I can only let so much go...And that was just too hard to let go of.

I feel so weak..:o

there is a difference between spirits and spirituality...

there is? :confused:

but how can spirituality not have anything to do with spirits? i don't get it.

i mean, atheists can be kind and selfless, and do for others, but that certainly doesn't have anything to do with spirituality. right?

They go hand in hand actually...

I drink some spirits, and I find myself feeling quite spiritual..

Sorry, I couldn't resist..:)

haha. i'm pretty sure that feeling is called "tipsy".

you guys are going to make me have to get out my dictionary. :bugeye:

but how can spirituality not have anything to do with spirits? i don't get it.


hmmm..although i didn't say one had nothing to do with the other..i said there was a difference..that does bring up an interesting question which i will avoid..

hmmm..although i didn't say one had nothing to do with the other..i said there was a difference..that does bring up an interesting question which i will avoid..

why avoid an interesting question?

why avoid an interesting question?

cause i don't know how to answer it..

cause i don't know how to answer it..

perhaps someone else does. :shrug:

everyone has spirituality. it is an effect from being alive. :rolleyes:

spirituality indeed has nothing to do with religion but can be channeled or shaped by religion just as anything can, as for god and spirituality that would depend on what you define as god.

spirituality would be the total of your life-force, values and emotions.

Don't know that I can define the word, but I can tell you what gives me feelings that I associate with "spirituality".

When I was around 12 years old, we went to Mesa Verde on vacation. I felt a real connection to "something deeper". That was the first time it dawned on me that us, humans, have been doing what we do for a long time. I went back 35 years later and the magic is still there.

Nov 11, 2000 11 AM I was standing in the ruins of Coventry Cathedral. I felt that same connection to "something deeper".

There are times that I am playing music and I tap into "something"... At those times, the music just works. I can think it and it happens. Physically, it leaves me with the same "sense of well-being" that the two incidents above did.

My spirits.....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2396109184_b6220d6970.jpg

My spirits.....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2396109184_b6220d6970.jpg

wow. those bottles are fancy shmancy.

Physically, it leaves me with the same "sense of well-being" that the two incidents above did.

except spirituality or one's lifeforce is a dynamic state and it can veer from not feeling well to feeling well.

everyone has a spirituality and people give off those energies as well as it's unique to everyone as well as there are things spiritual we all have in common.

I almost added that I was given a shot of morphine both times I've gone to the hospital for a kidney stone. The feeling was very similar. :p

except spirituality or one's lifeforce is a dynamic state and it can veer from not feeling well to feeling well.

everyone has a spirituality and people give off those energies as well as it's unique to everyone as well as there are things spiritual we all have in common.
In accordance to your definition of spirituality. Everything I've felt that I associate with a spiritual feeling has been positive.

In accordance to your definition of spirituality. Everything I've felt that I associate with a spiritual feeling has been positive.

i suppose so. i don't consider spirituality something that you "run into" but is what you are which can change, grow or is affected by other factors.

How does one achieve spirituality without god?
Ask a Buddhist. :)

i suppose so. i don't consider spirituality something that you "run into" but is what you are which can change, grow or is affected by other factors.
We're hunting for a definition for the squirrel, so it's good to find out what people mean when they use the word.

It's already fairly apparent that it's very subjective.

figured i had better post something otherwise be accused of not following the conversation..

i found this:
Recognizing the root word as being spirit, let’s look at its definition first. The English word spirit comes from the Greek word pneuma and the Latin word spiritus, both meaning “breath,” or “of wind.”

The spirit is vital in giving life as humankind is made up of mind, body, and spirit. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary says it this way “the force within humans being thought to give the body life, energy, and power.” In this search, you may be seeking a greater understanding for the purpose of your life, the make-up of a human being,
(http://www.allaboutspirituality.org/spirituality-information.htm)

the rest ties it into god..my question is how can we define it without god..
so the rest is biased..

also found this which is very informative:

What is Spirituality?
Spirituality is not bound by any rules. It does not follow any religion and neither does it adhere to any set of principles. Spirituality is the art and science of self-realization. It's a practice of knowing each part of your body. Being spiritual means awakening the very spirit of being who you are. It's means to recognize what you are made of. It can seem complex in the beginning. However, all of us are spiritual beings, it is just a matter of realizing it. Spirituality is a walk towards the ultimate goal of your life. In essence, it's your journey to find yourself. There are many schools of thought that believe in uniting with the pure mental and physical being by meditating. Meditation is focusing on breathing, which is the very reason for existence.

(http://www.buzzle.com/articles/spirituality-vs-religion.html)

a question brought up in another thread..

define spirituality.

...

Pleasure from deep appreciation.

Well, according to the dictionary, it's defined as:

"Attachment to all that concerns the life of the soul"..

I'm not really sure what to make of this.:shrug:

Well, according to the dictionary, it's defined as:

"Attachment to all that concerns the life of the soul"..

I'm not really sure what to make of this.:shrug:

It's pure nonsense. The best way to gain a definition in a case like this is to see how people describe spirituality. From those descriptions there may be a commonality and that is where to work a definition from.

It's pure nonsense. The best way to gain a definition in a case like this is to see how people describe spirituality. From those descriptions there may be a commonality and that is where to work a definition from.

um..so what is your definition? err..describe it?

um..so what is your definition? err..describe it?

The definition is in post #27. No need to describe anything as the definition isn't presently elusive and is compatible with the current understanding in social science where spirituality is defined as "the search for the sacred, where the sacred is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.".

Pleasure from deep appreciation.
I can live with that.

a question brought up in another thread..

define spirituality.

i have always associated this with religion and God, but others have said god is not needed for spirituality, i have heard this enough to accept that it is possible,but not enough to communicate how spirituality can exist without god,

so my question is define spirituality in a way that does not include God or religion..
or
how does one achieve spirituality without god?

For practical intents and purposes, spirituality is usually the act of fucking with someone, esp. with their mind, and feeling no guilt over it. It is the one way in which a person can abuse another without there being any state-law-imposed sanctions. It is emotional, mental, physical, monetary blackmail at its finest and its grossest. It's an excuse for not actually caring about the other person.

For practical intents and purposes, spirituality is usually the act of fucking with someone, esp. with their mind, and feeling no guilt over it. It is the one way in which a person can abuse another without there being any state-law-imposed sanctions. It is emotional, mental, physical, monetary blackmail at its finest and its grossest. It's an excuse for not actually caring about the other person.

that sounds like religion..
not spirituality..

that sounds like religion..
not spirituality..
That's funny. In an ironic true sort of way. ;)

that sounds like religion..
not spirituality..

it sounds like jaded to me.

Peace and happiness of mind

it sounds like jaded to me.

Because dog fights are such fun, aren't they?!

You can just feel the luv ooozing like puss.

Because dog fights are such fun, aren't they?!

You can just feel the luv ooozing like puss.

even if you're talking about religion, i can't see the analogy with a dog fight. those dogs don't have a choice; people do.

if you're talking about spirituality, notice that your answer differs greatly from most of those posted here. most people equate spirituality with a peaceful, loving, communal state of being. one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it.

even if you're talking about religion, i can't see the analogy with a dog fight.

Are we not at eachother's jugular when we talk about "spirituality"?

Are we not at eachother's jugular when we talk about "spirituality"?

i'm not. Q and phlog haven't been around here much so...:shrug:

i'm not.

I feel you are.

You can just feel the luv ooozing like PUSS.

Ok... I'm not usually the type to point out typos or spelling errors..

But I think you mean pus...

What you have there, clearly stands for something else..

Interesting that it's "ooozing" though.:eek:

I feel you are.

why? i don't attack you. i don't insult you. i don't call you names. i called you honey the other day. i typically stay on topic pretty well, state my opinion, answer the question, vote in the poll, and i don't say anything to anyone else that i wouldn't say to myself. typically...

a question brought up in another thread..

define spirituality.



As Dennett accurately points out in Breaking the Spell, it doesn't really mean anything at all.

It's actual meaning is 'wind', 'breath'. It comes from 'pneuma', which you might recognise from penumonia, (a breath related illness).

John 20: [Jesus] breathed on them and said; "receive the holy spirit".

Yes, it's a load of hot air.

a question brought up in another thread..

define spirituality.

i have always associated this with religion and God, but others have said god is not needed for spirituality, i have heard this enough to accept that it is possible,but not enough to communicate how spirituality can exist without god,

so my question is define spirituality in a way that does not include God or religion..
or
how does one achieve spirituality without god?

The Greek pneu'ma comes from pne'o, meaning to breath or blow. The same for Ru'ach Hebrew. (correct if mistaken)

They also mean wind and vital force in living creatures, angelic creatures.
They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight but having visible effects.

Spiritual is a term which conveys heighten human qualities.
The Bible calls them the Fruitages of the Spirit.

Love
Joy
Peace
Long-suffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faith
Mildness
Self-control

These qualities are called Fruitages of the Spirit because they are invisible qualities that require the practice of expression to be evident. The bible contrast this with Works of the Flesh.


Fornication
Uncleanness
Loose Conduct
Idolatry
Spiritism
Enmities
Strife
Jealousy
Fits of Anger
Contentions
Divisions
Sects
Envies
Drunken Bouts
Reveries


They come to us naturally, without effort. They are the focus of self rather than than the Fruitages of the Spirit which focus on others and God. As it stands it is possible to be spiritual-like without the Faith in God which is the very epitome of 100% trust in that which we cannot see yet having force but it would be but a shadow of true spirituality if one can't truely trust in those spiritual qualities

that is informative Saquist..but the challenge here is explaining it without bringing god into it..

They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight but having visible effects

So 'spiritual' refers to that which is invisible to human sight, such as.. bacteria, atoms etc? You're not saying anything here.

You bring up a list of things that indeed are visible - not only as expressions, but as chemical reactions and brain activity.

So 'spiritual' refers to that which is invisible to human sight, such as.. bacteria, atoms etc? You're not saying anything here.

Well, neither are you snake.



You bring up a list of things that indeed are visible - not only as expressions, but as chemical reactions and brain activity.

Last time I checked, emotion is defined as a state of mind.
That is an intangible no matter how literal your eyes desires it to be otherwise.


that is informative Saquist..but the challenge here is explaining it without bringing god into it..


It's a little difficult.
Like I said...it is possible but going back to what these words really mean ,and to the best of my knowledge, the idea that truly spawned the most common understanding of the word would imply it is a religious concept.

What do you think?

Last time I checked, emotion is defined as a state of mind. That is an intangible no matter how literal your eyes desires it to be otherwise.


The latter does not follow from the former. Yes, we decribe emotional concepts which are fully correlated by brain actions, (referred to as objects). When, for instance, you get angry, (concept), we can see the action, (referred to as 'object'), in progress through eeg's etc.

Some of those that have a problem distinguishing between the object and the concept, will confuse one for the other.

As an example: I am standing in front of you. I say "hello!". I later show you a printout that only contains wavy lines. You, being unable to distinguish between the concept and the actual object, tell me that this is just a picture of wavy lines, it is not the word "hello". You, seemingly, expect to see the word hello as we would type it wafting through the air once it leaves my mouth. If it ain't in Times New Roman, you can't see "hello".

The fact is that you can see "hello" but in the sense of object, not concept.

So when I say "hello!", you do not see "hello!" wafting into the atmosphere in Arial bold or Helviticus, you simply see a printed graph with wavy lines. The word 'hello' is that wavy line, you are simply stuck on concept as opposed to object.

Regards,

why? i don't attack you. i don't insult you. i don't call you names. i called you honey the other day.

Of course you do, on all counts.

I yet have to witness a conversation that would be "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it. "

The latter does not follow from the former. Yes, we decribe emotional concepts which are fully correlated by brain actions, (referred to as objects). When, for instance, you get angry, (concept), we can see the action, (referred to as 'object'), in progress through eeg's etc.

Some of those that have a problem distinguishing between the object and the concept, will confuse one for the other.

As an example: I am standing in front of you. I say "hello!". I later show you a printout that only contains wavy lines. You, being unable to distinguish between the concept and the actual object, tell me that this is just a picture of wavy lines, it is not the word "hello". You, seemingly, expect to see the word hello as we would type it wafting through the air once it leaves my mouth. If it ain't in Times New Roman, you can't see "hello".

The fact is that you can see "hello" but in the sense of object, not concept.

So when I say "hello!", you do not see "hello!" wafting into the atmosphere in Arial bold or Helviticus, you simply see a printed graph with wavy lines. The word 'hello' is that wavy line, you are simply stuck on concept as opposed to object.

Regards,


Which for all intents and purpose is nothing more than a meta-message, to which to be understood is the good humor of the riddler and only the riddler.

This brings us from one philosophy to another. If the action isn't manifested (action) then does it truly exist? (concept)

Of course you do, on all counts.

I yet have to witness a conversation that would be "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it. "

because we disagree? :confused:

disagreeing about something is not the same thing as attacking. and if we disagree then would you not be as guilty as i?

because we disagree?

disagreeing about something is not the same thing as attacking.

It is.
The only difference between a person disagreeing with some "spiritual claim" and another person killing another is that of degree; but they both disagree.



and if we disagree then would you not be as guilty as i?

Sure.

My point is that "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it" would have to lack any and all disagreement or conflict.

You are welcome to make the case how disagreement and conflict fit into a "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it" !

It's a little difficult.
Like I said...it is possible but going back to what these words really mean ,and to the best of my knowledge, the idea that truly spawned the most common understanding of the word would imply it is a religious concept.

What do you think?

i have always thought of it as a religious thing also..

i think the description earlier as:

Spirituality is not bound by any rules. It does not follow any religion and neither does it adhere to any set of principles. Spirituality is the art and science of self-realization. It's a practice of knowing each part of your body. Being spiritual means awakening the very spirit of being who you are. It's means to recognize what you are made of. It can seem complex in the beginning. However, all of us are spiritual beings, it is just a matter of realizing it. Spirituality is a walk towards the ultimate goal of your life. In essence, it's your journey to find yourself. There are many schools of thought that believe in uniting with the pure mental and physical being by meditating. Meditation is focusing on breathing, which is the very reason for existence.

is the best yet that i have found..

It is.
The only difference between a person disagreeing with some "spiritual claim" and another person killing another is that of degree; but they both disagree.




Sure.

My point is that "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it" would have to lack any and all disagreement or conflict.

You are welcome to make the case how disagreement and conflict fit into a "a peaceful, loving, communal state of being; one that transcends materialism and the physical, and all of the garbage that's associated with it" !

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/TE3xYeuJG5I/AAAAAAAAIJc/zNB-cGl-xuk/s1600/holocaust123.jpg


If you felt as much as the slightest twinge of discomfort upon seeing this image, remember your own words:

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/TE3xYeuJG5I/AAAAAAAAIJc/zNB-cGl-xuk/s1600/holocaust123.jpg


If you felt as much as the slightest twinge of discomfort upon seeing this image, remember your own words:

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

yeah. that's my point.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/TE3xYeuJG5I/AAAAAAAAIJc/zNB-cGl-xuk/s1600/holocaust123.jpg


If you felt as much as the slightest twinge of discomfort upon seeing this image, remember your own words:

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

it seems like you only responded to the last part of her post..the first part matters also..
that pic does nothing for respect,love, or value

yeah. that's my point.

So you have no issue with militant Anti-Semitism?

You squelch your ego and respect the Nazis, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board?
You believe that Nazis should be free to believe whatever they want?

it seems like you only responded to the last part of her post..the first part matters also..
that pic does nothing for respect,love, or value

What are you talking about? Are Nazi beliefs to be exempt from the respect-love-value formula?

So you have no issue with militant Anti-Semitism?

You squelch your ego and respect the Nazis, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board?
You believe that Nazis should be free to believe whatever they want?

now you are missing the last part of it....

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.

What is your point?
That you allright with Nazis?

What is your point?
That you allright with Nazis?

my point is why are you trying so hard to make that an issue when it is not..

Can you answer a simple question?
Do you respect and value Nazi beliefs?

Can you answer a simple question?
Do you respect and value Nazi beliefs?

no..because theirs is based on disrespect,hate, and devalueing human life.
it does not qualify for what lori has posted..

you had taken her comment completely out of context, all you heard was 'all beliefs should be respected', that is NOT what she said.

you had taken her comment completely out of context, all you heard was 'all beliefs should be respected', that is NOT what she said.

Yes, she said that.

Yes, she said that.

no she said..

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.


that is quite a bit differant than her just saying 'people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe'

as i said..you have pulled that completely out of context
the context is the rest of it..

Can you answer a simple question?
Do you respect and value Nazi beliefs?

nope. but, i don't really give a shit what they believe, as long as it doesn't infringe on any one else's beliefs, or cause anyone any harm. that is freedom.

and by respect i mean, to not impose my beliefs on them or cause them harm because of theirs.

no she said..

it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening.


that is quite a bit differant than her just saying 'people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe'

as i said..you have pulled that completely out of context
the context is the rest of it..

The context is you not squelching your ego enough. :rolleyes:

nope. but, i don't really give a shit what they believe, as long as it doesn't infringe on any one else's beliefs, or cause anyone any harm. that is freedom.

and by respect i mean, to not impose my beliefs on them or cause them harm because of theirs.

Christians cause harm to many people.
But Christians do not care about that.
In fact, they call it "love".

:puke:

"Harm" is probably one of the most relative terms there is.

The context is you not squelching your ego enough. :rolleyes:

so now you get defensive?

Christians cause harm to many people.
But Christians do not care about that.
In fact, they call it "love".

:puke:

"Harm" is probably one of the most relative terms there is.

so don't pass it on...

Christians cause harm to many people.
But Christians do not care about that.
In fact, they call it "love".

:puke:

"Harm" is probably one of the most relative terms there is.

no. it's really not that complicated. my belief doesn't depend on anyone else's and their disbelief or belief doesn't have anything to do with me.

so let me get this straight...because i believe in god, you show me a picture of a bunch of dead jews and equate me with mass murderers. and you don't see that as an attack on your part?

it's ridiculous.

lots of people cause harm, and lots of people don't care, christian or not. and it's not love. i don't care what they want to call it to justify their hatred. it's a lie.

and here's the thing...i am just as sick and tired of religious people using religion as an excuse for hatred, as i am atheists buying their excuse. it's a scapegoat for both. atheists want to blame religion for hatred just as much if not more than religious people because they don't want to admit that there is something much more systemically and pandemically wrong with humans in general...including themselves.

no. it's really not that complicated. my belief doesn't depend on anyone else's and their disbelief or belief doesn't have anything to do with me.

so let me get this straight...because i believe in god, you show me a picture of a bunch of dead jews and equate me with mass murderers. and you don't see that as an attack on your part?

it's ridiculous.

lots of people cause harm, and lots of people don't care, christian or not. and it's not love. i don't care what they want to call it to justify their hatred. it's a lie.

and here's the thing...i am just as sick and tired of religious people using religion as an excuse for hatred, as i am atheists buying their excuse. it's a scapegoat for both. atheists want to blame religion for hatred just as much if not more than religious people because they don't want to admit that there is something much more systemically and pandemically wrong with humans in general...including themselves.

I am showing you that your stance

"it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening."

is not actually coherent or viable.

And unless you live in a vacuum, your beliefs depend on other people's, and their disbelief or belief has this or that to do with you and your beliefs.

We are interconnected and influence eachother, whether we like it or not.

The lovey-dovey liberals are just living in their own bubble of selective amnesia.

I am showing you that your stance

"it's simple. it all comes down to squelching your ego and respecting another, and that is based in love, and valuing freedom across the board. fear, insecurity, and hatred are what turn a disagreement into an attack. people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe without being threatened or threatening."

is not actually coherent or viable.

And unless you live in a vacuum, your beliefs depend on other people's, and their disbelief or belief has this or that to do with you and your beliefs.

We are interconnected and influence eachother, whether we like it or not.

The lovey-dovey liberals are just living in their own bubble of selective amnesia.

i don't trust anyone else with my beliefs, and i think that's prudent. my belief in god comes from an interaction with god, not with other people. and that's why i think that other's beliefs should not depend on mine. i think that everyone should get their own evidence, from god himself.

i have always thought of it as a religious thing also..

i think the description earlier as:

Spirituality is not bound by any rules. It does not follow any religion and neither does it adhere to any set of principles. Spirituality is the art and science of self-realization. It's a practice of knowing each part of your body. Being spiritual means awakening the very spirit of being who you are. It's means to recognize what you are made of. It can seem complex in the beginning. However, all of us are spiritual beings, it is just a matter of realizing it. Spirituality is a walk towards the ultimate goal of your life. In essence, it's your journey to find yourself. There are many schools of thought that believe in uniting with the pure mental and physical being by meditating. Meditation is focusing on breathing, which is the very reason for existence.

is the best yet that i have found..

There is something unique about the qualities of Spirituality listed by the bible.
They all must be 100%
And one could argue for all them that there is no way to truly be uncompromising-ly selfless unless one defers his worries and concerns to someone like God.

How often are our ideals compromised because of forces beyond our control.
Most agree killing is wrong. If you're "forced" to kill you're compromising your ideas for your life.

Many times we are generous when we can afford to be.
What about when we can't afford it?

How can you be joyful even in suffering?

Some would argue that less there is a GREATER Benefactor such as God then the survival extinct is too strong for simple goodwill to overcome. I think that is the nature of spirituality. Faith...or 100% trust that removes the need to act in ones own behalf and instead act towards others needs.

How can you be joyful even in suffering?


that comes with maturity and the realization that worry/stress doesn't do anything to help it..

That's certainly true but some never learn.

i don't trust anyone else with my beliefs, and i think that's prudent. my belief in god comes from an interaction with god, not with other people. and that's why i think that other's beliefs should not depend on mine. i think that everyone should get their own evidence, from god himself.

I bet you are an incarnation of some very proud meditator. :p

I thought of something today in bible study,wanted to share it with you guys and get some other thoughts..

spirituality as it applies to MEPS..

mental..what we think
emotional..what we feel
physical..what we know
Spiritual..what we believe

We cannot access our spiritual state of being directly,
our spiritual state of being is that which exists outside our own 'self',
our 'self' is governed by our mental,emotional,physical states of being,
through our effort to make our mental,emotional,physical, states of being better, we influence our spiritual state of being,
our spiritual state of being is that which will exist after we die. (disbelieve this if you will, but respect those that do)