Interbreeding with Animals

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by lixluke, Feb 1, 2007.

  1. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    I really hate the fact that there are some people still out there that think lions, tigers and jaguars all inhabit the same natural communities (not saying u are all of the above lixluke)! These people should really watch more natural history t.v.
     
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  3. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Yeh, but when they do get together, offspring can follow.
     
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  5. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    That's not my point
     
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  7. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    So what is your point?
     
  8. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    It was a side thought after what lixluke had posted. I just think it's incredible how many people believe it, even though not one person on earth has ever seen a natural history program where lions and tigers co-exist. Nobody ever asserts that penguins and elephants live together. It is just a creation in their head probably based on the familiar grouping of lions and tigers when we were kids.
     
  9. valich Registered Senior Member

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    Habitat of a liger? Probably a swamp.

    Enormous diversity of "fertile" hybrids from different plant species. They mate [mix] and produce viable offspring, and ARE separate species. Also:

    Female Lion x Male Tigor = Tigon
    Cattle x Buffalo = Cattalo (Beefalo)
    Zebra x Horse = Zorse
    Pony x Zebra = Zony
    Male Donkey x Female Donkey = Zonkey
    Female Donkey x Male Zebra = Debra
    Turkey x Chicken = ? (doesn't work)
    Pheasant x Chicken = Phicken
    Pheasant x Duck ? (maybe)
    Cocker Spaniel x Poodle = Cockapoo or Cockapoodle (same species)

    Chimeras (variegated plants)

    Monterey Cypress x Alaska Cedar = Leyland Cypress
    Hickory x Pecan = Hican

    Tangerine x Grapefruit = Tangelo
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  10. RoyLennigan Registered Senior Member

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    1,011
    The line of speciation is a gray area in science. There are seperate species that can interbreed, as shown in this thread. But for the most part, species share almost the exact sets of genes in the exact number of chromosomes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_Problem
     
  11. valich Registered Senior Member

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    The Wiki article doesn't even state the standard definition of what constitutes a species. They go on and on about philosophical aspects and talk about the problem with using defining traits, which we don't use anyways.

    In Animalia, a species are organisms that can produce fertile offspring. Within this taxa, if they can reproduce, they get classified in a hierarchy of subspecies such as with dogs.
     
  12. RoyLennigan Registered Senior Member

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    That's the point, its not an article about species, its an article about the conflict among scientists concerning what exactly a species is.
     
  13. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    "The idea that nature comes in discrete groups, with no variation between those groups"...is a misperception..."If the full range of natural forms, in time and space, is studied, all apparent boundaries become fluid." Ridley (1996)
     
  14. valich Registered Senior Member

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    What I'm saying is that the Wiki article is more about a conflict between philosophers than between scientists. Sure, there is a transition zone between speciation but if we weren't discrete then we couldn't classify then we couldn't communicate then how do we make any sense out of nature.
     
  15. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Classification is more an indicator of how the human perceives the environment (the difference between things); rather then how it actually is. There are several methods of classification.
     
  16. valich Registered Senior Member

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    Classification is how humans perceive and then organize the environment in order to differentiate between things as they actually are. Yes, there are several methods of classification but they all rely on discrete differentiation: taxonomy.
     
  17. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Whereas variation is continuous?
     
  18. RoyLennigan Registered Senior Member

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    I guess I see what you are saying. For the most part, species cannot interbreed. And when they do, it almost always results in a less successful organism. This is why scientists make the distinction of different species.

    Gene recombination is a tricky thing. The two sets cannot be too different but they cannot be too similar either (or you end up with cases like down syndrome).

    I agree with this kind of thinking. Taxonomy is simply a code in which to commonly associate between ourselves the distinctions between other living things. In reality, every living organism is different than the next. There are just varying degrees of difference. But ultimately, we are all just DNA and whatever little bits go with it to suddenly cause the collection of elements into which you become.
     
  19. valich Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not saying that species cannot interbreed. I'm only saying that this is the generally accepted criterion that biologists use to classify organisms in order to communicate. Over a very very long period of time - longer than you and I both shall live - will the variation be apparent enough to see. We can talk about that variation but it is still best for us to classify organisms in taxonomy by discrete classifications so that we can talk about them and distinguish between them in the here and now.
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    When I was a kid the definition of a genus was a group of species that could interbreed. They've changed that for reasons I don't understand. Cats and ocelots cat interbreed and they do it so readily that the hybrids became a pet fad a couple of decades ago, yet they are now in different genera.

    The reason that most species don't interbreed in the wild even if it's theoretically possible is that they have mating rituals. If they don't recognize each other's ritual they don't have the proper psychological response and they don't become aroused. Tigers have to claw each other to become aroused. That's the reason people had such a hard time getting captive tigers to breed, they were all de-clawed. I don't know whether lions do that, and if they don't they won't turn on the tigers.

    I'm more familiar with birds. It's pretty easy to get the various species of Amazon parrots, macaws, grassland parakeets, etc., to crossbreed in domesticated environments.

    The more gregarious and inquisitive an animal is, the more likely he will be interested in inter-species dating.
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think that the de-clawing makes much difference to the tigers unless it makes their feet sore.
     
  22. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    Fraggle Rocker, in your experience with birds, how often are interbred offspring fertile? Also, I believe bobcats can be bred with domestic cats.

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  23. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    I don't think the classification of animals or plants was ever based on the capability of interbreeding.
     

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