Free energy

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by crazeeeeeem, Apr 29, 2007.

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  1. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, very true! That's just one of the common problems with energy crackpot nuts - they don't understand or even know about things like back-EMF and energy conversion losses. Pretty much everything they say is based on just a little knowledge with no appreciation whatsoever with all the other principles involved. Put into plain words, they are grossly ignorant.

    (Not to mention that most of them are also delusional and paranoid as well. What a wonderful combination of human attributes!!!!)

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  3. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    Well what you are saying is nonsensical. Anyway for completeness, its the rate of change of the magnetic field that is faster than light.

    From Faraday's law, E ~ dphi / dt

    where dphi/dt is the rate of change of magnetic flux with respect to time.
    E = electromotive force measured in volts
     
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  5. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    That's fine, the magnetic field's rate of change can be as fast as you want, but that still does not allow information to travell faster than light, which means the propogation of your field (how long it takes for our instrument to feel the change) will still only be at most c.
    So, still no FTL communications.

    By the way, you appear to be the only one who thinks my posts are nonsensical, which means you might want to spend more time understanding what you read. Anyone who shares your opinion is free to correct me of course.

    -Andrew
     
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  7. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    It's a bit premature to say that information can never travel faster than light. We have a propagation medium, which is probably space-time, and we have something that propagates. We don't even know for certain if electromagnetic energy is analogous to the wave that rides the top of water or the compression wave that makes sound, which goes much faster. I would vote for the compression wave, actually.

    The rule actually is that information that depends on that medium and that type of propagated energy will only travel at the speed of light. If it goes faster than light we will be making use of different rules or different combinations of known rules.
     
  8. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    A bit premature? We have no examples of any information travelling faster than light, and we have concrete theories supporting this law.
    And we do know that EM waves (photons) are transverse waves (neither water nor sound, as sound is longitudinal, and water is both transverse and longitudinal.) It is easy to tell because of their polorization, something longitudinal waves cannot have, but transverse waves certainly do (ie, it's a property unique to transverse waves.)

    Say what? The fastest information can propogate is c, in a medium it tends to move slower.
    Yes the law is falsifiable, but it hasnt been falsified yet, and there is no indication that it will be. Even Newton's laws were not all falsified; for example conservation of momentum.

    -Andrew
     
  9. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    Hang on if the rate of change is "as fast as I want", and this information is conducted faster than light as shown in the theory, than why do you say that information cannot be faster than light? Surely the rate of change of a well defined signal is information. And if it travels faster than light, as proven, than its faster than light.

    Whats the ambiquity?

    As to the second comment, I was mirroring Hofsteader.
     
  10. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    With electromagnetism the rate of change of a signal is still limited by the speed of light.
     
  11. kevinalm Registered Senior Member

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    Because having as high a rate of change of a magnetic field at a point as you want has nothing to do with how fast the distant effect of that change is communicated. The distant effect of a change in the electromagnetic field travels at c in a vacuum. Less than or equal to c in material media.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2007
  12. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    And in addition to that (which is totally correct) there's also a limit on how fast you can switch an electromagnetic field. And it's considerably less than c. An electromagnetic field is produced by moving electrons. Electrons are material things and you cannot reverse their direction of flow at a rate approaching the speed of light. So the whole proposal is bogus right from the start.
     
  13. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    What is your evidence? Research says that what you are saying is not true.
     
  14. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Hah! Just what "research" says that it doesn't???? That's just plain nonsense!:bugeye:
     
  15. kevinalm Registered Senior Member

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    Well, let's see. About the mid to late 1800's there was this guy named Maxwell, and he developed this set of electromagnetic field partial differential equations.... geez, haven't you studied E/M theory at all? :bugeye:

    Anyway, the rate of change of a magnetic field effects the intensity of the induced electric field curl but it has no effect on how fast it propagates away. And likewise for rate of change of the E field and the induced B curl.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2007
  16. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    You are good at reading quotes. Try doing some real thinking. In my day, we didnt have to be spoon fed everything.
     
  17. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Semmelweiss was considered to be delusional and paranoid too, and he died a madman.
     
  18. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    I've got a question for you. Don't take it too personal but there's no one else here I can address it to. It's really just a generic thing and not at all intended to be abusive or insulting. OK?

    Just what is it that makes some people think that they can get around many decades of experimentation and very careful measurements - all fully repeatable with NO variations found in the results at all? What makes a single individual - usually lacking in formal training, too - think they are somehow - all by themselves - smarter than ALL the highly trained professionals who have been working in these fields for years and years. What can make someone think they are smarter than ALL THOSE PEOPLE PUT TOGETHER???
     
  19. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Some of it is the attitude of people like you who are about half smart if that, and who seem to think that their degrees or their college hours towards a degree makes them smarter than if they actually knew a subject.

    You think that you've set down ironclad rules and then when someone simply tries to find out what the laws of thermodynamics are, then hoo boy it's a can of worms. When someone questions you on that it's "woo-woo" like Daffy Duck.

    Maybe it's because the whole of all of those people put together actually becomes less than the sum of its parts.

    Maybe it's because science these days demands obedience instead of real thinking.
     
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    That question was not addressed to you, neither did you add anything of value toward answering it. Thanks for nothing.
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    See what I mean?
     
  22. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    Regardless, the model says that the information carried by the rate of change of the magnetic field is faster than light. I am willing to stand by it.

    Didnt say it was well understood.
     
  23. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    Proof by assertion is a logical fallacy. Whether you stand by your model or not is irrelevant.
    Also you seem to think the rate of change of a magnetic field determins it's propogation speed. It doesn't, which is where your whole problem lies.

    -Andrew
     
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