VitalOne's Fallacious Rants Against Atheism

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by VitalOne, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    I'm away for a few hours, and look what happened ...

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    The thing is that in religions, it usually DOES MATTER how come a person believes or doesn't believe.

    That's why I said that trying to make the issue of belief an objective cognitive matter is inadequate.

    For example, in Christianity, if a person says they believe in God because they don't want to go to hell, this is not enough; in fact, according to some Christians, it is precisely such belief in God that will land a person straight in hell.


    Of course it's "too active", and "non-acceptance" doesn't mend the problem either.

    Note that several stances might be at work here underneath, such as:
    "If a person has something, it is because they want to have it."
    "If a person doesn't have something, it is because they chose not to have it."
    "Whatever the state of affairs, it is a result of conscious, deliberate actions."
    These are sometimes adequate, but other times they are not.


    I'll put it this way: From a particular perspective, there are two externally observable results: accept and not accept. But there are six different intentions possible to lead to those results:
    The intention to accept leads to acceptance.
    The other six intentions lead to non-acceptance (or rejection, if you will).


    The crux is that religions and philosophies often refuse to accept the person's own account of what their intentions are, but instead some religions and philosophies impose on the person their own understanding of what intention lead to a particular result.

    So a religion might claim, "If you don't believe in God, this is because you are deliberately refusing to believe in God, despite the fact that you know the Truth".


    I gave up on trying to understand Vital's position.
     
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Vitalone, page 8, post #154, reply, or resign the argument.
     
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  5. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    Well it comes from knowing a disease, and or denying a disease. An alcoholic will never admit he/she's an alcoholic, seldom they've come to the realization they are an alcoholic, to the same point a brained washed theist will never admit they are incoherent, irrational, or gay! They deny their wrong, they think they are right, and tries to fight in anyway to admit that EVERY one else who doesn't agree with their world view of god, is plainly wrong! Thus this mentality spurs world conflicts between individuals and unfortunately between government leaders. Imagine if this dood was some sort of politician, how safe would you feel?
     
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  7. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

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    it's really you, because post after post you disregard everything I said about the scientific method.
    I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that the scientific method is not perfect, but it is the best thing we have, and if you don't like it, feel free to go back to medieval age.

    I am not an atheist. I don't have to believe in abiogenesis or in anything else. I follow up on research.

    I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be using the very same fallacies you are criticising, should you? I thought you said that lack for evidence for one thing doesn't automatically count as evidence for something else. I mean, do you actually consider the insuficient evidence for abiogenesis to be an evidence in favour of design? Can you say that to my face?
    Or do you actually have any serious evidence at all of design?

    This is getting very tiring... I'm ready to give up on you, vital
     
  8. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    No, that was never established...why do I keep having to repeat myself a million times?

    Listen, there's:
    belief
    disbelief
    neither belief nor disbelief

    Why do you see things only in a way to promote the atheistic propaganda?
     
  9. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I'm the only one here that thinks for myself...you guys are upset because no other theist has been able to logically beat you up
     
  10. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I already responded to that, post #180, maybe you should resign
     
  11. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Right, ashura see's things in black and white, ashura says there's only belief and disbelief, in you possess pure uncertainty (neither refusal nor acceptance) then it's some how disbelief, even though it's not refusal
     
  12. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    It's still disbelief because refusal isn't the only kind of disbelief. Inability to believe, which is NOT refusal, is also disbelief.
     
  13. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    What? It's not refusal because you're not refusing to believe....

    Come on ashura just admit it
     
  14. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    If you're not refusing to believe, but you're still unable to believe, it's still disbelief.

    disbelief can be either

    refusal to believe
    OR
    inability to believe
     
  15. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Yes you can...what's wrong with you?

    In your world there is either "YES" OR "NO"..."maybe" does not exist
     
  16. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    Yes you can what?
     
  17. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Sorry I read that wrong

    I meant to say you can have neither belief and disbelief...
     
  18. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    Still doesn't address your denial of this:

    If you're not refusing to believe, but you're still unable to believe, it's still disbelief.

    disbelief can be either

    refusal to believe
    OR
    inability to believe
     
  19. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    No, you're not simply unable to believe, you're neither refusing nor accepting

    There it's been addressed
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2007
  20. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    You're confusing the issue. These last few posts haven't been towards your nonsensical example of "neither believe nor disbelieve" but to this comment of yours:

    I'm trying to get it through your head that refusal isn't the only form of disbelief.
     
  21. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    No, refusal isn't the only form of disbelief according to you because it contradicts your atheistic propaganda...to you and other "weak atheists" anything besides belief in God is atheism

    I've said this over and over again, the reason it's not disbelief is because you're not refusing to believe
     
  22. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    According to ME?? Because it contradicts my atheistic propaganda? And not because it's the very definition of the word???

    After that comment Vital, it's apparent that we're not even speaking the same language anymore. I give up.

    I'll end our lengthy conversation with something we can hopefully both agree on: Ron Paul '08.

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  23. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

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    nothing to say, vital?
     

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