[Beta] Morality, Societal Health, and Religious Belief?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by SkinWalker, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    This is a Beta Rules thread. Please review the Beta Rules before replying or participating.

    Is societal health dependent upon religious belief? Does atheism and secularism lead to poor societal health?

    This is a topic worthy of discussion and can be scientifically examined as it relates to religion. It’s a common assumption among religious adherents that atheism leads to immorality. Often I’ve been asked by religious adherents, “what prevents you from doing whatever you want if you’re an atheist? Why don’t you just rape and kill at will?” They don’t realize, of course, that this is a complex question fallacy, which assumes that morality is, in fact, informed by religious belief.

    My answer is that I have compassion for my fellow human beings and that my morality is driven by humanist philosophy and experience. But religious adherents in the U.S. often blame the moral decline of society on increasing secularism. How can this be when the United States is the leading religious nation among first-world democracies, yet has homicide rates that exceed that of other, more secular, first-world democracies?

    Religious adherents also claim that abortion is an issue that is exacerbated by secularism, yet this isn’t quantifiably so when the data are examined. The U.S. has rates among adolescents comparable with second and third world nations whereas other first-world democracies have comparably low rates. STD rates among adolescents are high in the U.S., and are low in secular nations.

    Adolescent birth rates are, likewise, higher in the U.S. than in secular nations.
    Positive correlations can be made between increasing “immoral” behaviors and increasing religiosity, and negative correlations can be shown to exist between decreasing “immoral” behaviors and secularism.

    I’ll be the first to admit that correlation does not immediately imply causation. The United States has another unique feature other than its unusual religiosity among first-world nations: it’s also the wealthiest. Wealth is likely a very real factor. Still, if nothing else can be said, secularism and atheism do not appear to result in immorality.

    References:

    Abma, Joyce, et al (2004). Teenagers in the United States: Sexual Activity, Contraceptive Use, and Childbearing, 2002, National Center for Health Statistics. Vital Health Statistics 23 (24).

    CDC (2006). STD Surveillance 2006: Special Focus Profiles: Adolescents and Young Adults. Department for Health and Human Services (CDC).

    Singh, Sushella and Darroch, Jacqueline (2000). Adolescent Pregnancy and Childbearing: Levels and Trends in Developed Countries. Family Planning Perspectives 32: 14-23.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    You say that your altruism towards your fellow human beings is based on humanist philosophy...but what is humanist philosophy based on?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    And that's a fair question. Also, I'm sorry I took so long to come back to this, but the New Year has been fairly busy for me.

    I don't think humanist philosophy is necessarily one that is adopted and accepted by only those that identify as "Humanists," hence the reason I used lower case letters in the quote above.

    I think a humanist morality exists in all cultures and is developed through observation and experimentation. Its a common set of ethics and morals that develops in any culture probably correlated to factors of human psychology that are generally common to all. In no human culture, for instance, regardless of their religious dogma or superstition, is it acceptable to murder one's parents to assume their wealth. There are any number of these sorts of "moral/ethical truths," -it is unacceptable to torture young children for either pleasure or information, for instance.

    Staying on topic, however, it is interesting to note that in successful first world democracies, laws and policies are written without and, often, in spite of religious doctrine. Even the laws of the United States do not reflect religious morality, while there are definitely congruent "laws" between civil/secular legislature and religious mandates (such as murder), but I contend that this is due to the fact that religious morality is influenced by humanist philosophy.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    You believe these ethical values within humanity exist...but I asked you what they are based on?

    What is their basis?

    As a materialist you believe that the entire content of human thought, memory, consciousness and emotion is derived from bio-chemical reactions in the meat brain, created and controlled by unconscious chemical codes called genes...right???

    Just like every other animal.

    So...why dont you live like an animal?

    Assuming you believe there are higher human ethical values...the question then arises.

    What is their basis?
     
  8. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    I'm not interested in pursuing that line of discussion further than I already have, mostly because to do so is a philosophical endeavor and I'm interested in empirical endeavors related to morality and religion. Perhaps you could start that thread in the General Philosophy section and someone will bite.

    I'm interested more in the empirical data that shows that religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality. Nor does it do a good job at enforcing or encouraging moral behavior given the data.
     
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    I'm interested in the scientific empirical data too.

    Thats why I'd like to know what scientific basis there is for your belief in higher ethical values.

    Other than the strict imperatives of your genetic programing...which holds that the entire content of the human meat brain should be directed towards surviving comfortably as long as possible, while propagating as many replications of your genetic material as possible.
     

Share This Page