Objective reality: How do we know it exists ?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Enmos, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Sure, but try telling that to the IRS!

    Seriously (although that about the IRS is just as serious), there is plenty of ways to deconstruct the notion of self, to expose it as unsubstantiated etc.
    But to employ these ways leads to a neurosis, paranoia.

    The Western people, and some Eastern, that produced these ways to deconstruct the self are starting from the tradition of Western thought and science: it is only the truth that matters. They didn't take into account that the pursuit of truth might actually make people miserable, worse even, unable to function. Western philosophy has lived, usually, as an intellectual hobby, serious people talking about serious stuff, but not really taking it seriously. They tell you "who you really are", but they can't tell you what good it will do you to know "who you really are".

    They instruct you to deconstruct, but they offer no goal for that that a person concerned about their wellbeing would ever pursue.


     
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  3. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Try to "reason away your self".

    You will go mad.
     
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  5. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    My argument is that we can know there is an objective reality.
    I make my point by using subjective reality. Everyone makes their own subjective reality but because everyones subjective reality is very similar to anyones else's we know they are all based on the same thing; objective reality.

    I only called it arrogant in a sarcastic way.
    Ok, I think it's idiotic. But if something is unfalsifiable it doesn't mean I should give it some serious thought.

    I tried that but then you said:
    "No, Enmos. Please don't take that guru role with me. You see the point I was making, please respond to that."

    From the very first post in this thread you acted like you smelled blood.
    I don't know what your irritation is but it's a pity you are choosing to be like this as I always enjoyed discussion with you a lot.

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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not mad

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  8. Yorda Registered Senior Member

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    it's no fun to always agree because then there's nothing to discuss... that's why i often think different. then it's more fun to agree.
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, maybe you should every once in a while say it straight forward lol
     
  10. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    That's the most sensible thing you've said to date. Simply devasting !

    If only I has realized that two people disagreeing with a third makes the third party right. How about I join you and then Enmos will be right ?
     
  11. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    You haven't "reasoned away your self", have you?
     
  12. shichimenshyo Caught in the machine Registered Senior Member

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    Now dont get me wrong here I tend to believe that without the brain the mind cannot exist, but just because our minds are built around the idea that there has to be some foundation or base for everythng doesnt mean the vey fabric of existence is structured that way, :shrug:
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Not in the way solipsism I imagine would. But I do say that we are in essence nothing more than dead matter organized in such a way that it has particular characteristics.
    A consequence of my view is that what we call the self is nothing more than a manifestation of the chemical and electrical processes going in the brain.
    This is essentially reasoning away the 'mythical self' or 'supernatural self' a lot of people think it is.
     
  14. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    No, but it's at the very least far-fetched to assume a mind existing on it's own made everything up the way it is.
    Why would this mind make up that we have arms and legs ?
    Why would this mind make up particular areas in the brain that coordinate these limbs ?
    Why would this mind be unaware of this until it 'hears' of scientists discovering about these areas ?
    And why would this mind, on occasion, get startled by something ? After all it makes everything up itself. So why get startled ?
    I think these are questions to consider when thinking about or discussing solipsism.
     
  15. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    I don't get you wrong;I just don't get you. Please explain what you mean. What is " the very fabric of existence" ? As far as I am aware , nobody has said our senses do other than provide an interpretation of what is out there. Why do you disagree ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2008
  16. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    What is there to reason away ?
     
  17. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Can we please let go of this solipsism stuff and focus on the OP ?

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  18. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Okay. And how does thinking about the self this way help you in your everyday life?
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't.. but it doesn't bother me either.
     
  20. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    ... yet.
     
  21. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    Greenberg,

    Are you suggesting that if thinking about something in a particular way is not benefical to ones life, that one should abandon it and seek another way of thinking that will ?
     
  22. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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  23. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    Even if it means departing from what one regards as truth ?
     

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