the question of alleged human "superiority"

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Enmos said:
lol.. you have deluded yourself. But don't feel bad, most humans have.
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Norsefire:
How?
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You've acknowledged that humans can counter a natural disaster, but that we are our own threat. So what of those who don't survive: victims of genocide, etc. Are they inferior? And doesn't our cannibalism of-a-sort attest more to our inferiority?
 
Enmos said:
Which is what you equated to superiority.
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No, I equated the ability to survive to superiority, not the length of your survival. I'm not equating your ability to survive with the length of your survival; one could survive for a long time but it doesn't necessarily mean they're good at surviving, they just have gotten used to a norm of conditions. When new conditions come along, these species go extinct; humans don't. We adapt because of our intelligence.
parmalee said:
Norsefire:

You've acknowledged that humans can counter a natural disaster, but that we are our own threat. So what of those who don't survive: victims of genocide, etc. Are they inferior? And doesn't our cannibalism of-a-sort attest more to our inferiority?
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Our intelligence is a double bladed sword; yes, we are more dangerous than all other life, but we also have more potential. Easily.
 
Norsefire said:
No, I equated the ability to survive to superiority, not the length of your survival. I'm not equating your ability to survive with the length of your survival; one could survive for a long time but it doesn't necessarily mean they're good at surviving, they just have gotten used to a norm of conditions. When new conditions come along, these species go extinct; humans don't. We adapt because of our intelligence.
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I think this brings us back to cockroaches: how do they differ?
 
Norsefire said:
No, I equated the ability to survive to superiority, not the length of your survival.
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In practice, what's the difference ? The ONLY way to measure a species ability to survive is by how long a species actually survives, isn't it ?
 
parmalee said:
I think this brings us back to cockroaches: how do they differ?
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They aren't as good at surviving; yes, they've survived a long time. And they've survived through varying conditions. They're good at survival. Just not as "good" as humans, and they certainly don't have as much potential seeing as they can't alter themselves, their environments, or think ahead.

Enmos said:
In practice, what's the difference ? The ONLY way to measure the ability of survival is by how long a species actually survives, isn't it ?
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No. As I said, a species might survive a long time in a norm. You have to test them by putting them through stress, through differing conditions. Humans pass the test.

Not to mention, we're the only species that can exterminate, and have exterminated, other species.
 
Norsefire said:
We can respond to any natural disaster, assuming we are well coordinated; we can plan ahead in order to survive. However, it's human nature and human society that is the greatest threat.
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Other animals don't need to "respond" to natural disasters, they are still connected to nature. You see, the main problem with modern humans that have decided to become disconnected with the natural world, it is that we are no longer part of the natural system, so we need to react.

Take the tsunami that hit the south pacific. You didn't see mass deaths of animals did you? NO. Do you know why? Because they knew it was coming. Why? Because in many ways Norsefire, they are superior to humans. How so you ask? Because they are still one and connected with nature and the whole of the galaxy. Not only did they know the tsunami was coming, they knew the earthquake was coming. How on earth can we claim superiority to that? They are in tune with the very bio-rhythms of the PLANET!!

We are only just now waking up to the fact that the planet even HAS a resonance and has bio-rhythms. If the life forms on the planet know, before our technological instruments do, that an earthquake is coming, then how can we assume the mantle of superiority?

No sir, it is time we recognize the flora and fauna equality to us, we are all one in a net of life on this beautiful blue green orb, and our activities are wildly placing things out of balance.
 
Norsefire said:
They aren't as good at surviving; yes, they've survived a long time. And they've survived through varying conditions. They're good at survival. Just not as "good" as humans, and they certainly don't have as much potential seeing as they can't alter themselves, their environments, or think ahead.


No. As I said, a species might survive a long time in a norm. You have to test them by putting them through stress, through differing conditions. Humans pass the test.

Not to mention, we're the only species that can exterminate, and have exterminated, other species.
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I think that cockroaches (along with mosquitoes and countless other insects) have done a damn fine job at surviving. And they most certainly do alter themselves!

What sort of "stress" are you talking about? At first, you seemed to be talking about intelligence: have you administered I.Q. tests to cockroaches? do you speak cockroach? How can you be so certain that they're not that smart?

And I wouldn't go so far as to put our ability to EXTERMINATE as an example of our superiority!
 
Norsefire said:
No. As I said, a species might survive a long time in a norm. You have to test them by putting them through stress, through differing conditions. Humans pass the test.
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Oh I think surviving a couple of Mass Extinction Events means the Horseshoe Crabs have passed the stress test, don't you ?
Humans haven't by the way. They've had it easy up to now.

Norsefire said:
Not to mention, we're the only species that can exterminate, and have exterminated, other species.
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And you base this on ?
And why is this a sign of superiority again ?
 
i believe humans are the superior life forums, i think we have lasted longer than most animals and we are usually at the top of the food chain
 
Norsefire said:
The proof is all around you; what other species erects cities, factories, statues, sculptures, art, music, philosophy?

Human beings not only survive, but thrive. And in the future when we can enhance ourselves, we will thrive even more.

The only real threat to us is ourselves.
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When the major catastrophes hit, like asteroids, it's always the single-celled organisms that seem to be the least impacted. When the Earth's atmosphere went from anaerobic to oxygen rich, the single-celled organisms survived (imagine we lost all of our oxygen tomorrow, how many humans are adaptable enough to survive that?) When the earth froze up into Snowball Earth, they survived. They live in ocean vents where the temperatures are a hundreds degrees, and they've been found living inside volcanic rocks 4,000 feet down in extreme heat and radioactive water, eating the rocks themselves.

:D
 
Enmos said:
Oh I think surviving a couple of Mass Extinction Events means the Horseshoe Crabs have passed the stress test, don't you ?
Humans haven't by the way. They've had it easy up to now.
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We still are better at survival; we have more potential. We can think ahead, plan ahead, and understand the concept of "future" and therefore be prepared for problems or act to prevent or minimize a future disaster.

You see?


And you base this on ?
And why is this a sign of superiority again ?
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It's not, necessarily; it's simply to show that we do have the most power as a species.

Pandaemoni said:
When the major catastrophes hit, like asteroids, it's always the single-celled organisms that seem to be the least impacted. When the Earth's atmosphere went from anaerobic to oxygen rich, the single-celled organisms survived (imagine we lost all of our oxygen tomorrow, how many humans are adaptable enough to survive that?) When the earth froze up into Snowball Earth, they survived. They live in ocean vents where the temperatures are a hundreds degrees, and they've been found living inside volcanic rocks 4,000 feet down in extreme heat and radioactive water, eating the rocks themselves.

:D
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Good point and true, but as I said, human beings still have key bonuses: 1) planning ahead 2) understanding how the world works, thus we are able to alter it or put it to use 3)we're aware of our own evolution

This makes us much better at survival, in my opinion, especially when given time.
 
Lol. Your ability to survive is measurable by how LONG you survive. That's the point Enmos is making. You can't say humans are best suited to survive, accompanied by a lack of examples of us surviving longer than these other species.
 
i highly suspect that humancentrism is based on a reflective psyche dynamic that may well be wired into the ego.
this has allowed us to commit genocide when and where required.

now as the species continues to evolve mentally this is becoming redundant.

however...
you can clearly see in certain areas of tribes/societies where this genocide is wholly supported as a mandate of common existence of the group.tribe.

israel Vs palistinians
muslims Vs non muslims
tutsies Vs hutu's
etc Vs etc..

obviousely most of these are defined by religious grounds, BUT !
these religious constructs are built around tribalism to form the same dynamic as tribal warfare.
 
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