Owning a person

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by S.A.M., Dec 13, 2009.

  1. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    It depends on what we're referring to as prostitution. I must make note that I think all of them in all forms are wrong.

    Escorts are popular in big cities, they have the most rights. They don't have an obligation for sexual favors - however, they're hired because a big tip can easily 'persuade' them once they're escorting you on a date.

    Brothels probably have almost equal rights. Typically - since they're legal, they have right to refuse. They can refuse service to a man for any reason and they typically have security around the house who protects them, so they aren't in fear.

    Street Hookers are the most illegal and most endangered. Once they get into the car they've basically agreed to anything. If they disagree they have to physically ward you off. They can't exactly call the police. This is why you hear of so many dead street hookers. At that point it becomes a court nightmare. Typically the woman is charged with prostitution, and the man is charged with picking up a prostitute. Rarely rape charges are upheld - that is, unless the man has previous convictions of sexual assault. But even then most hookers don't have enough self-respect to not accept relatively small plea deals.

    Human traficking is completely different. It consists of women who are brought from other countries and are given food, water, shelter, and basic essentials in exchange for doing sexual favors to strangers for their 'owners'. They're held partially within their will and against their will. Some are literally locked up in cages, some roam freely in houses. In the more extreme case they're unlocked just to do the service - In both cases they're convinced that if they do the service for N amount of years they'll be granted US Freedom with a stipend. If they escape in their minds they're 100% getting deported - which they apparently feel is worse than prostitution, if they stay they at least have a chance of being given citizenship. If they try to leave their owners may convince them they owe them the cost of bringing them in.
    In any case it's always rape.

    US Court has a precedent that having sexual relations with a person who is mentally distressed or by blackmale is prosecuted very harshly. American juries crucify those who do it.
    It doesn't have any clear pity for those who have option to leave the industry and choose not to. And will rarely side with them.

    That's simply the nature of the American jury system - Americans decide who gets punished harshly and who doesn't deserve 'revenge'.
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Thats a pretty concise summary of the legalities and practical considerations, I am more interested in the ethics of it. Would those who pay for sex recommend it as a career choice to their friends and relatives? Would they be willing to acknowledge such transactions in public, if they came upon the person in a different setting? Is it something that "feels right" to them?
     
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  5. fellowtraveler Banned Banned

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    REPLY: What is it you do not understand ? There are men and women who are willing to pay for sex and those who choose to have sex with them for money. What is the big deal. When I was a young Marine I did it many times. It was perfectly legal and so was everyone else doing the same thing.
    What it is the big deal. People screw each other all the time. I am starting to get the feeling this may be exactly what you want to do but have some repressed part of your brain that won`t let you do what YOU WANT TO DO. If you want to pay some prostitute to be with her go do it. It will probably do you a lot of good. GEEZ, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME REAL FUN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE. Some of those gals know how to treat a guy I know that much. ...traveler
     
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  7. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    I've never heard of any prostitute say "I would like my daughter to follow in my footsteps". I have heard about a dozen on the show COPS say "I'm doing this so my daughter doesn't have to."

    Most escorts and pornographic 'actors' use pseudonyms - they apparently want their anonymity. I can't imagine any man wanting their daughter to grow up as a prostitute, I've never heard of such a thing.

    However - I remember a few years ago a prostitute was on the Forbes List, I wish I could remember her name. She might suggest it.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you'd recommend it as a career choice to girls and boys in your family? Give them pointers on how to treat the customer right?
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    SAM, many people make these decisions on their own. I think it is definitely wrong weather a person decides for themselves or is forced, of course much more if forced. Either way there are consequences.
     
  10. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    fellowtraveler, your advocacy of prostitution is appalling - in some countries in this world it's actually criminal to suggest someone do something illegal. The Marine's harboring in Thailand (amongst many other poorer nations) and finding solicited sex is not legal in the Marines code of conduct - it is however accepted and not prosecuted.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure many people make these decisions on their own, I'm just looking at the mindset of the "demand" side of the trade equation.

    e.g. what happens if you go for your pre-enlistment gang bang with your war buddies and the "escort" turns out to be your daughter? Are you still a customer? Or do you leave your buddies to it, knowing that the daughter may well enjoy it? Or do you join in because, what the hey, its all the same biology and what difference does it make whose vagina it is?

    Or is morality different when it comes to you, separate when it comes to your family and completely different when its some stranger you'll never see again?

    What if you're too drunk to tell the difference anyway? Will it matter the morning after?
     
  12. fellowtraveler Banned Banned

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    REPLY: Sam, I don`t want to be hard on you, BUT I am getting the feeling that you want to get together with some fine prostitute and have the time of your life and I say GO FOR IT. Be careful, many of these prostitutes can be just out to rip you off. Pay the money for a good one in an establishment that you can trust. You actually have it a bit backwards. It is often just a set up to steal your money. Go to Amsterdam or Berlin and ask around. Then GO FOR IT AND HAVE A GREAT TIME. ...FELLOWTRAVELER
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'll take that as a yes, you would recommend it as a career choice. My personal opinion is that prostitution, like abortion is something that would require a life threatening situation for me to participate in. Its not something I would recommend as a career choice to my children and hence, it would not feel right to exploit someone elses child for what I would consider wrong for my own.

    Just because I like to look at bugs under a microscope does not mean I want to be one.

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  14. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    A lot of people end up with jobs they never planned on doing. I presume the same goes for legal prostitution. These people could as well do an other job such as 'cleaner'. But it's about the cash, I guess. When you're, for example, a junkie then you need some quick money supply in the right amount to get your drug, so prostituting yourself is a way to earn that needed money, a quicker way than working somewhere as a cleaner.

    I know of female students who prostitute themselves to finance their studies. They don't complain. They pick their clients wisely, and seemingly enjoy it. They're smart, and could do any other job out there, but they've picked this path on their own. Why? It's quickly earned money, in high amounts at that.

    Sex is natural. It's all about your personal stance towards sex. If you think of sex as a holy custom then prostitution isn't your way to go.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not addressing the ones who think of it as a holy custom. I am wondering what the ones who don't think of it as a holy custom would think if the parade of gangbangers was going through their consenting adult kids room. Would they see it in the same light as when they were part of the same parade?

    Even the ever loquacious dr strangelove eh, I mean dr syntax, had nothing to say on that.
     
  16. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    I don't have children. But I'll try to think of my sister engaging in such activities. If she's happy with it, wasn't forced into it, and doesn't want to choose an other way to earn money, then that's her problem. I'd probably object to it at first, but if she would really insist on doing this then I have to respect her choice. I'd be worried about her health, and future though, and would therefore hope that it's just a temporary thing. You can't live as a prostitute forever..because once you hit a certain age your clientele will become rarer.

    Certainly, living 100% of prostitution isn't recommendable.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you'd be okay with it once you determined that she wanted to do it? You could sit there knowing what she was doing day in and day out, for a living?

    I can't imagine being so complacent about any of my sisters doing something like this. Or even my mother.

    But I am very fastidious about my person, so its probably not the norm. Still, how anyone can be nothing more than a receptacle for the body fluids of perfect strangers is a mystery to me.
     
  18. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    So, what would you do if one of your sisters would do this for a living? Would you force her to stop it? Would you stop talking to her?

    'nothing more than a receptacle for the body fluids' - that's one aspect, but you could also look at it from a different perspective; you're earning money while making someone happy.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I would lose all respect for her, thats for certain. She could find better ways of making people happy than that. And that goes for my brother as well.
     
  20. fellowtraveler Banned Banned

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    REPLY: What is there to say. You insist on portraying prostitution in the worst possible ways. As others have pointed out to you, there are many willing prostitutes that choose this way of making money and it need not be this ugly business you insist on portraying it as. In many places it is not the sordid business you insist on portraying it as. Why would I ever want to deal with the sorts you come up with. You think you`re clever and perhaps you are, so what ? It does not change a thing. I still think you are a repressed type who would like nothing more than to go to a RESPECTABLE ESTABLISHMENT and have the time of his life with a real beauty, but you won`t let yourself. It`s your life, live it as you choose to and I will do the same. ....traveler
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    There are many people who willingly sell their children to feed them. I can understand them better than a person who cannot even respect herself/himself.

    I think the difference is you and I are both seeing it from different ends. What would it take for you to sell your body for money?

    Would you be willing to bend over for anyone who came along? Anyone at all? Would you look at yourself the same way afterwards?
     
  22. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    sam its no different from any other company. If IBM fails to deliver on a computer you ordered you cant go and bust into the IBM factory and take one, you would be charged with breaking and entering as well as theft. If they refuse to deliver a product or service which has been paid for you either go to the police, the courts or the relivent goverment department (consumer affairs ect). This should be no different
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So the persons body is a thing?
     

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