Communism or Capitalism?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Emil, May 22, 2010.

  1. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    2,801

    Please have patience.My English is not good.I use Google translation.
    I live in Romania.Am practical experience of both systems.
    I learned more comunsim (I was forced) and nothing about democracy.
    I fought in the Romanian revolution and I obtaind the title "Fighter for Victory of Romanian Revolution with Special Deeds".

    Everyone is moving in a axiomatic world.
    You can have more or fewer axioms.
    With as few axioms you have the more your world is built on logic.
    For that I always ask "why."
    If an axiom for you then I have no chance to convince you of the contrary.
    I try to define foundations of human society that bring the first question.
    What is the state? What now for several millennia people have felt the need
    State was founded? What needs to satisfied.

     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Knowledge, truth and understanding by yourself.
     
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  5. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    A long time ago humans probably lived like Chimpanzees in 15 to 90 person families/tribes that were hostile to neighboring families/tribes even if they were their close cousins. These family tribes were the beginning of the state.

    In these family tribes people fought to be the leader. The leader gets to have the most food and sex and attention.

    The family tribe protects its individuals from those not in the tribe. This is the primary function of the state.

    The family tribe may work cooperatively to accomplish things they could not accomplish as efficiently as individuals like killing a buffalo or making a camp fire. This is the second function of states.

    The family tribe may share their food with an injured member of the tribe. This is a third function of the state.

    The family tribe mediates disputes among themselves or enforces hierarchy which is a form of dispute resolution. This is a fourth function of the state.

    The family tribe tells stories thereby educating it's young. This is a fifth function of the state.


    The next phase of states was allied family tribes. They would agree on territory and then fight together as one larger tribe against unaligned tribes to acquire the unaligned tribes territory.

    The alliances of tribes became larger and larger. Every function of state that was present in the original family/tribes became potential functions of state in the alliances of large numbers of family/tribes.

    Corporations also vaguely resemble the alliances of family/tribes.

    The functions that humans need to have satisfied by their states are the same functions that ancient primitive men needed to have satisfied by their family/tribes.
     
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

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    Why either / or? What can not you have both like China?
     
  8. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    I do not think people or thinking about all these things then.
    Remember, we are States in the early formation
    Native people of Australia have not founded states
    American Indians have not founded states
    The modern history of America,in the Wild West, people have formed alliances
    and elected a sheriff and a judge, then a primary.
    I concluded that people need most is security.
    But maybe wrong.
    For that I wanted to talk about training States
    Then talk about the type of organization of society in the countries.
    Monarchy, slavery, dictatorship, anarchy, communism and democracy and that is my choice.
    If you get to democracy what is left and right etc
     
  9. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    2,801

    I think not, but it is possible
    The main thesis of communism is that all there is comun.Nu private property.
     
  10. John T. Galt marxism is legalized hatred!! Registered Senior Member

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    Capitalism.
     
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    impossible to answer one is an economic system and one is a political system
     
  12. John T. Galt marxism is legalized hatred!! Registered Senior Member

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    Capitalism, period. Very easy to answer as one cannot do without the other, but then you know that. Don't ya tuff guy?
     
  13. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    3,714
    I presume by Communism you mean only taking it's economic attributes into consideration.
    In which case I'd have to say without corruption it is better to keep everyone on an equally pleasant footing, than to keep over half the world in poverty to provide luxury for the minority.
     
  14. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    Milton Friedman put it best... but if you don't understand English, I'm afraid you would need a translator to understand the video.

    Simply put though, communism and capitalism are very similar... the only real difference is who controls the capital.

    In a communist society, the Government controls the capital, and makes a profit from it... no matter how much work you put into the system, you will only ever get out the same as everybody else. There is no incentive to work harder other than to not get harassed about not working hard enough.

    With capitalism, the capital is controlled by the individual, or the business and it is theirs to profit from. If you work harder, and if you're lucky, you earn more and increase your standing in society. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. Government intervention for the sake of legislated "equality" so the less adequate feel that they're earing a fair wage compared to the real hustlers can make or break that kind of system... at least that's how it feels.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    In communism the state owns everything. In capitalism, ownership is private. With communism you have issues with the state exercising decision making which is not based on supply and demand which leads to the inefficient distribution of capital.

    In capitalism while capital is owned privately, it tends to accumulate at focal points and therefore becomes inefficient as the supply side of the demand-supply curve becomes controlled by those who own the capital. So both systems have problems in that if left to themselves in their pure states they tend to become ineficient...markets eventually become dominated by a few. Communism just starts out that way.

    That is why the ideal system incorproates elements of each. Which is why the richest modern societies incorporate elements of each economic system.
     
  16. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    2,801

    You came straight to the end.I would like to go through several stages.
    I think the most important thing is:security of any kind, physical, material, social.
    For me it is the main task of a state.

    People fall into two broad categories, like animals.Domestic animals and wild animals.
    Wolf does not understand the dog and the dog does not understand the wolf.
    The dog is social-democratic (the left), the wolf is the liberal (right).
    If a domestic animal is left in the jungle, he dies.
    If a wild animal is placed in the cage, he dies or no longer reproduce.
    If the domestic animals have absolute power, they make a communism and this means the death of wild animals.
    If wild animals have absolute power,they make a jungle and that means the death off domestic animals.
    One of instincts,what distinguishes us from animals,is the instinct for compassion
    For this reason is so important: left parties and right parties to dialogue.Try to create a system where both sides can live together.
    By the way, anarchy is capitalism?

     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    You are mixing a couple of concepts together. First communism and capitalism are economic systems...not political systems. An economic system refers to how resources are distributed within a given social system. Poltical systems speak to how decisions are made with in a given social system.

    I think decisions are best made in the light of day rather than behind closed doors. Social decisions made communally generally yield better results. However, they generally take longer. And that is why you find most countries do a little mixing and matching.

    Military units are generally very autocratic. But the most efficient and effective military also have channels or procedures in place to prevent autocratic abuses.

    Most economic systems have a blend of communalism/socialism and capitalism as previously discussed. So the answer is there is no one pure form of social decision making or resourse allocation that is best for every one and in every situation. That is why our most effective societies use a blending of each.
     
  18. edenocp Registered Senior Member

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    socialism as in the state of Israel is the balance between communism and capitalism (which are the two extremes - left is communism and right is capitalism politically). Strike the balance. Do not let anyone tell you that socialism is communism because it is not. There is land ownership and free business enterprise. Please do not choose one of the corrupt abusive extremes. If all the people must vote on every matter rather than a representative for groups, that is the only way.
     
  19. soullust Registered Senior Member

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    1,380
    Capitalism, but Public Capitalism, like America was 150 years ago.

    Not todays Modern Corporate Capitalism which is Destroying the west.
     
  20. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    I'll raise a drink to that.
     
  21. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    How many Jobs does China outsource compared to the US? Anyone know?
     
  22. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    China outsources jobs?
     
  23. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    China doesn't outsource but China is also no longer practicing communism. They have reformed their economy into a fiercely capitalist system.

    As far as what system I prefer, the more goods the merrier. The more people making stuff and selling stuff is a good thing. If they can make stuff and still provide free health care and education and ensure that no one goes homeless then its even better.
     

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