Who was Jesus talking to when he said...

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Medicine*Woman, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    That "shady sources" comment was a little uncalled for. I was trying to be nice.
    Why the unprovoked attack? Do you have a problem seeing the trinity doctrines as being of Pagan origin?
    The Madonna/child images do tie into to that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    I am bringing out a point to you that you are going to see that image, in one form or another, regardless of any point it is attempting to make. Another thing that is a assumption is that the image is always mother and child but that is just presumed by the viewer in many cases.

    I bring out things based on logic and if i see errors in reasoning then i reveal those errors and anything else you are reading into. As you may see, from your comment about my having trouble with everyone (which i dont agree with) i have no compulsion to fit into any group or be part of the crowd so i base my opinions on observations i make and nothing more. Not to mention the fact that i am not a religious person myself.
     
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  5. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    You just "bring things out" based on your "logic"
    Religion is big part of history, John.
    You really can't study one without studying the other.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    You seem to be answering your own questions.

    For example:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Didnt i give you my own opinion in the other post?
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    Roger, My sentiments as well.

    However much there is to exploit i dont fault people for writing fiction and selling it for $12.99

    Just too much assumption and no facts. People write entire books on a few cave drawings and the meaning of a simple drawing which of course is very profound .

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    and mysterious when in reality it was someone doodling with a rock.
     
  9. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    there ya go MW..publish yur book..doesnt matter if they agree or not as long as they buy the book..maybe someone will reference it trying to make their point.
     
  10. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: I read what I can in what little time I have to do it. I also don't have a lot of time to post anymore, so forgive me if I have overlooked some things.
     
  11. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: I told you this was my belief, and I posted references for you per your request. I don't have the time to argue each and every cherry picked point of contention you may have.

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    M*W: If you read the references, you would know what the word means.

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    M*W: Anything written about Jesus at any time is not evidence that Jesus existed.

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    M*W: The "God of Israel" (I'm talking the ancient people of Canaan) were sun worshippers. If you read the references, you would know the answer.

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    M*W: The references clearly describe what ancient sun worship is and why early christians associated the sun with Jesus. I've provided you with the references. I don't have time to sit here and argue each and every question (insult) you have. Look it up for yourself.

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    M*W: What you do is of no concern to me. I've referenced the answers you requested, now it is up to you to read them. Then we can discuss.

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    M*W: I don't have the time either, so if anyone else out there can answer Roger Pearse's nit-picking, I would appreciate it.

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    M*W: I'm not a victim of Acharya S. I think it is funny how you call others "nut-jobs" when it's apparent that you are one of them.
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

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    I dont mind new theories but if they dont work out then it has to be accepted.
     
  13. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    One interpretation is that the sun is a type of God - the Light. The moon has no light of it's own.
    It only reflects the sun to light the night in it's absence.
    The moon represents the people or hosts through which that light is reflected or operates during the "night" or the absence of God being present in person.
    This is what the Bible refers to when mentioning the sun and the moon in type.
    Other sources however may have different meanings for them.

    The people of Israel should not be confused with the inhabitants of Canaan that were there before them.
    They were not sun worshipers in general. They were told not to worship the heavenly hosts, but did on occasion fall away from that directive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  14. roger_pearse Registered Member

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    Sorry, but you didn't. I have explained my difficulties with your post already. Your response to it was to brush my queries away as follows:

    So ... no answer to my queries except "it's somewhere in the long list of books" -- mostly evidently irrelevant -- "that I posted". Um.

    If this is the only response to enquiry, I think we can dismiss this claim as nonsense.

    All the best,

    Roger Pearse
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  15. roger_pearse Registered Member

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    Indeed so. We need to be sceptical of these imaginary claims.

    And didn't Von Daniken do it all first, and do it better? These tawdry little Christian-haters are so DULL!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  16. roger_pearse Registered Member

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    The formula of the Trinity -- or at least the terminology -- was originated by Tertullian and set out in Adversus Praxean. I don't think we need spend any time on the idea that Tertullian introduced something of pagan origin. He states that the teaching is apostolic.

    The New Testament makes the following statements:

    1. There is only one God, the Father.
    2. Jesus is God (worshipped, etc).
    3. Jesus is not the Father.

    From that, some formulation like the Trinity was inevitable, I suspect.

    All the best,

    Roger Pearse
     
  17. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: It's not a new theory, but a very old one.

    There is enough information on this theory that it cannot be dismissed. When I say it is my belief. I don't mean I worship that belief. All I'm saying is that it's an earlier myth and I accept it as such. I don't know how some people (christians) cannot accept the fact that sun worship was actually practiced in some ancient societies.
     
  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    My feeling is that it is a big mistake to view ancient people as intellectually inferior or less capable to make some very simple assessments like we are discussing here.

    Less sophisticated and the amount of information (mainly technological) we have today is no comparison but these things we are discussing are very base.

    I dont see where being Christian has anything to do more about belief that people where (edit: were

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    ) 'Sun Worshipers'. Major problem is that we cannot ask them so many assumptions (a term some would use loosely) can be made.

    Human nature points to a living god and the Sun being part of the picture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  19. John99 Banned Banned

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    I also can visualize the yearning for knowledge greater at that time simply becuase new discoveries were easier to come by. Some, if not most, of these theories were very far from truth and i see that is the case with these relatively modern impressions of those particular times. The point being is that there is only so much to work with and we cant just make stuff up to fill the gaps in.
     
  20. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    I would agree with your last statement, but not with Tertullian.
    It is a finely weaved web that combined paganism with Christianty. The teaching was never apostolic.
    It existed in pagan religions long before Jesus as three gods in one form in India, China, Japan etc...
    The New Testament states these three "attributes" of God exist..
    1) The Father
    2) The Son
    3) The Holy Ghost

    Now examine each of these attributes.
    -The Father is spirit.
    -The Son is the only begotten of that Spirit incarnate in flesh. (the fullness of the Godhead bodily)
    -The Holy Ghost is spirit.

    Jesus said God was His father, and "when you see me you've seen the Father."
    The New Testament also says He was concieved of the Holy Ghost.

    Unless Jesus had two fathers, the Father and the Holy Ghost are the same Spirit and Jesus the Son was It's only "begotten" human incarnation.
    That is one God in human form, not three gods in one form.
    It never said they constitute three seperate enities.

    The trinity doctrine of "three persons in one God", or "one God with three equal but distinct personalites" and other pagan teachings such as the falsely titled "apostles creed" may have been called apostolic but they were only intoduced and taught by the Christian churches much later after they had began to compromise with paganism
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Where did I imply that??? Ancient people were sun worshippers like the Israelites in Canaan, and practically everybody in Egypt at one time or another. That does NOT imply they were "intellectually inferior!" Inferior to who? To what? Explain, please.

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    M*W: I've provided a lot of bibliographical information about ancient sun worshippers. It's not an "assumption," it's a fact. No, we can't "ask" them if they were sun worshippers, the bibliographical information proves that. Go and read some of it before you comment.

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    M*W: Human survival points to a metaphorical god--the sun.
     
  22. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: What?
     
  23. John99 Banned Banned

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    Sun worshipper is a misnomer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misnomer) because you are taking only a small piece of things and oversimplifying it. Small things amuse small minds.
     

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