Atheists please answer this

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Joe K., Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    And congratulations on your second post.

    I'd welcome you to the forum, but I'm public enemy number one around here and hated by most. To welcome you here would prove your undoing, as the mob would descend upon you to uncover what reason you received my encouragement.

    So... Get outta here!

    In the meantime, yeah- totally relevant post and as I said, I'm glad you brought it up. On my side, you helped me scratch an itch.
    And for you, I helped you look at things from another angle.

    And that's why we are here.

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  3. cruiser Registered Member

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    Its ok. i have a big stick. mobs i can handle.
    English on the other hand it seems is not my forte,
    Words are just not my thing
     
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  5. cruiser Registered Member

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    Science is limited only by human intelligence and inability to grasp the most complex ideas.
    Religion however, limits you with an inability to grasp reality.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    And how limited is human intelligence?
    Can science work this out?

    Why?

    jan.
     
  8. BWE1 Rulers are for measuring. Registered Senior Member

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    the irony in this sentence is strong.
     
  9. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    lol..

    unless god directed the rock to break the branch, cause otherwise if left to grow, would have broken by itself and fallen into the puddle of muck, disturbing the processes which formed life..
     
  10. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Whatever. This post is just a clump of "I'm making stuff up to validate nothing."
     
  11. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    wasn't claiming anything about anything..the example used was just an example to clarify the term accident..

    i only put my two cents in for a chuckle..
     
  12. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    That was a clarification?

    No...

    THIS is a clarification:

    Let's change your statement:

    Unless a Fairy directed a rock...

    Unless a magic Dragon directed a rock...

    Unless Paul Bunyan directed a rock...

    And nothing changes. Any fantasy can be used to justify an intelligent hand that requires no proof.
     
  13. cruiser Registered Member

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    16
    sure. provided you have a human with enough intelligence to work out how to do it.
    for example. It used to be a commonly held view that earthquakes were some sort of attack from god because you had angered him.
    They're not.
    They are a release of stored energy within the earth.
    It just took humans ages to be able to scientificly prove this.
    The science was there the whole time. It was just the humans that couldnt work it out.
    I have no idea how limited human intelligence is. because what scale are you supposed to measure it with? i guess all knowing is right up the top, but untill you know everything how can you know how much there actually is to know.

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    very confusing.:bugeye: and to be honest, kind of irrelevant
    because quite plainly, you believe in a magical entity that controls every last little detail of everything that happens and ever will happen.
    because religious people actually believe what their chosen religious text has written in it.
    I actually know people who believe their were no organisms such as dinosaurs or amonites.
    When showed an amonite fossil from milllions of years ago my friend turned to me and told me that it wasnt real,
    That god had just put it on the earth to test our faith and i had obviously failed.
    i thought she was joking. turns out this is infact a widely held belief within christian religions....

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    You know your having issues with reality when you have to make excuses for your religion because it just doesnt fit the reality thats staring you in the face.
     
  14. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    cruiser,

    So limted human intelligence can successfully find out the limits of human intelligence providing it has enough human intelligence to do so?
    Does your brain hurt?

    But it's not the entire view.

    That doesn't mean that God, or a god cannot be the cause of particular earthquakes, or that the earth who is regarded (in some worldviews) as a goddess. My point is, you are seeing it from a perspective which may not explain the whole thing.

    I think folks who have been in an earthquake have firsthand understanding that the earth is being moved by some sort of energy. Scientific explanation not necessary.

    Then how do you know it's limited?

    Then don't comment on it then.
    We all know science is limited, leave it at that.

    Oh do I?
    There you go again, talking shit.
    Go learn about that which you have been programed to hate.

    So?

    Birds of a feather.....

    How do you know it was real?

    Which is why you shouldn't lump people into categories because they title themself as "christians". And you should understand that there are many schools of thought which use science as a tool to understand the world while believing in God.

    Can you explain reality to us?

    jan.
     
  15. cruiser Registered Member

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    16
    not as much as it would if i hadnt been the one who said that first?

    i apologise. enlighten me on what people thought earthquakes were other than a god. that is untill geology asserted its awesomeness over all of us

    no its a perfectly plausible idea if you stretch the imagination a little. it doesnt mean its real though....
    My point is, you are seeing it from a perspective which may not be... real?

    i have been in many earthquakes.... i live in a small country with lots of fault zones.... a scientific explanation my not be necessary but its very interesting.... and real?

    do you believe that what humans know right now is all they will ever know?


    but you used that at the top of your post...... dont be so gosh darn hypocritical

    sorry i assumed you believed in some sort of judeo-christian religion.
    go and learn about it? i was bought up by catholics, went to catholic school and believed in god for quite some time thanks.

    so i dont believe in harry potter? and youd probably think i was slightly mad if i did. try to see from my perspective.


    shall we call it faith? oh and the fact that i could see where the soft tissues of the amonite used to be and all its growth rings, its very cool actually.
    kind of the same thing as how do i know my cats real?
    i dont really want to get into a philosophical debate on how do we know anythings real


    i said a christian religion.....
    im sorry?
    yea i do know there are many people who choose to believe this. it just seems a little weird you know... 6 CO2 + 6 H2O → C6H12O6 + 6 O2. oh but god made it all happen.
    i guess my problem is that photosynthesis works just fine without putting god into the equation

    The quality or state of being actual or true.
     
  16. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Jan Ardena

    Most of what you said did not make sense. Some of it did make sense. But most of it looked like you were trying to nit pick apart words and find a reason to fight in them.

    I mean, seriously- What was that? Totally out of the blue. When exactly was the FIRST time Cruiser talked shit so that he could do it again?

    You should have picked a poster that had more than Ten Posts to try to create your illusion.
     
  17. cruiser Registered Member

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    she good sir, she. stop talking shit

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  18. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    I've experienced two earthquakes.

    I know it's due to plate tectonics. That is the scientific explanation, and there's no wiggle room for your God in there. Give up on this tack Jan, you are losing what little credibility you have left.
     
  19. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    Oh, you're one of those.

    Well... I forgive you. But don't let it happen again.

    A better analogy would be germs.

    When mythical philosophy mumblers start speculating, you end up with tales of ghosts, demons, hauntings and basic illness by possession.
    In order to over come this, a person needs the evil spirits driven out. Always demonstrated as not effective...
    Then the microscope came along and replaced mythical speculation with observation.


    No matter where we look, from the very tiny, to the vastly humongously huge...
    No hint, no sign, no clue as to the presence of a God.
    The more this happens, the more believers just bump "God" up the falsifiabilty ladder.

    "God moved the Earth to cause the quake"
    "God created the germs."
    And then when you show emergence in germs, that demonstrates no divine intervention or how the faultlines release energy...
    "God created the fault lines."
    "God invented emergence."

    It's gotten to the point, now, that God is so far removed by this bumping that there is no way he could actively be involved with Earth, anyway. So why bother?
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    cruiser,

    But it does all the same?

    Pretty much the same as what people today think, who are not aware of the scientific explanation.

    I don't recall giving an explanation of my perspective.
    But why do lean toward it being "not real" as opposed to not knowing whether it is real or not? Especially in light of the fact that you regard human
    intelligence as limited.

    If somebody stands on top of a skyscraper, drops some debris landing on a cyclists head killing him. It could be explained and believed that a strong gust of wind was the cause. Would that explanation be real?

    What does, volume of knowledge, have to do with human intelligence?

    No.
    You're the one who claimed human intelligence was limited, and would be able
    to decipher how limited by using human intelligence.
    I'm not even sure why you have switched human intelligence with volume of knowledge. :shrug:

    Don't worry I am aware of your conditioning.

    Are you assuming again?

    So what does this have to do with you understanding what you've been
    programmed to hate?

    What's harry potter got to do with anything?

    Why would I automatically assume you were mad for believing in him, without understanding your position?

    You haven't show a perspective as yet, other than the usual cliched thinking, which is clearly the result of conditioning. Prove me wrong and
    speak for yourself.

    Look, I'm not gonna argue with you. If it's real, it's real.
    But my point is, how do you know it's real, and not a clever replica?

    That's quite easy. Your cat acts like it's suppose to act.

    Ok.

    No, you said "christian religions"

    And brand new cars work just fine without putting oil in them, untill of course it gets real
    low, then you have problems.
    I guess it's all a matter of time.

    So you believe the amonite fossill is genuine, your freind doesn't.
    Based on your definition, who is right, and why?

    jan.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    Neverfly,

    I believe science, as in moden science (method) has to be limited to the basic senses, but I don't believe human intelligence has that limitation. And
    I don't believe science can conclude that human intelligence is limited.
    So what seemed like a harmless statement is loaded with what I regard as propoganda.

    Sorry cruiser, I meant "shite" which audibly has the same impact as "shit" but
    means nothing. IOW, a figure of speech.

    You're quite correct.
    Cruiser, welcome to sciforums, and please accept my appology for being a little harsh, although I'm sure you can handle yourself, and give as much as you can take.
    I'll understand if you don't wish to further our discussion.

    jan.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a he.

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    jan.
     
  23. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Yeah, there aren't many cracks left for God to hide in. Theists just make increasingly preposterous claims to excuse this.

    It's quite sad how they backpeddle.
     

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