Atheists what is your proof?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by science man, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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  3. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Those are actually both excellent theories (well, the mushrooms and the breeding). Observations that breeding with a different subspecies could have actually been the cause of the evolution from an animal to a thinking human being. However, if you look at the timeframes, the Adam and Eve stories were well past the initial development of homo sapiens. I suspect that there was an even more minor development than that of "thinking human being" that occurred at that point. Whether from the consumation of a brain-altering plant, or partaking in the forbidden fruit of a neighboring tribe, either one could have had an impact to mankind that I believe is what made us capable of having "spiritual experiences", i.e. the ability to "walk and talk with God", as the Bible puts it.

    EDIT: And who knows, perhaps there are some plants out there that DO alter us genetically... We already know of fruits that are high in anti-oxidants, which slow genetic damage from sunlight. It would not surprise me in the least if there was actually a plant back then that did cause a genetic change. I do think the interbreeding might be a more realistic theory though, since we also have archeaological and genetic evidence of interbreeding with Neandertals.
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    They could alter us indirectly. If their ingestion provided a survival advantage, those that used these plants or fungi would prevail in the evolutionary game. There is some evidence that mushrooms do increase visual acuity. There is even a plant called ibogane used by some modern African tribes in hunting, it stimulates awareness while paradoxially allowing one to remain calm and still.
     
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  7. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Well there you go!

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  8. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder why..

    Uh, the link not working I mean - not your mom thinking you were possessed.

    Anyway, it's a link about the Texas textbook situation, and reminding people that Texas is a big state with enormous buying power. As such, the current guidelines will probably affect the content of textbooks throughout the country.
     
  9. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Hahahaha

    Yeah - I am familiar with that subject.
     
  10. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    If I recall, tribes in South America have been known to chew coca leaves for the same reason.
     
  11. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    I have read that before as well. Hmmm... perhaps we can get the fundies to legalize cocaine!

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  12. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
  13. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    .. +1
     
  14. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I have my doubts. Some counties in Texas still don't sell alcohol, despite stories of Jesus turning water into wine. :cheers:
     
  15. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Good point!
     
  16. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Then I'll randomly choose.

    I am looking through the lens of consistency, persistency, and non-contradiction.

    The perspective of the authors is obvious. A fictional story. If you take the leap to call it truth then I'll invalidate it as fiction:

    Your claims stand invalidated and mine supported. The biblical god is demonstrated to be false.

    You can call earth a village, a dog a cat, and dirt a toaster. Interpret English however you please; however, the rest of us will use the English language correctly. Your're welcome to reject the evidence against the Biblical god presented; however, that rejection is merely based on your own personal desires vs. actual truth. You're at the point now where your particular god has been demonstrated to be fantasy. You can try to put your god further out of reach or you can simply reject truth in favor of belief.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Striving to understand and overcoming doubt with faith are mutually conflicting approaches - you are declaring the importance of exactly what you are refusing to do.
    Again a direct conflict in approach, and again a declaration of the importance of exactly the refused task.

    The people who made up the stories in the Bible have given us no evidence of an intention to establish falsehoods as history. They seem to be dealing in myth and legend for the same reasons we all do - from King Arthur and Sir Gawaine through Bre'er Rabbit and the Fox.

    Tha kind of nonsense is what makes the atheist take all the reassurances about teaching science in science class and so forth with suspicion. Fundies have a very hard time letting go of the basic magical thinking underlying the acceptance of a storybook as depicting historical event.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  18. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Upon what basis do you make the claim that the perspective of the authors is obvious? Or that their intent was to create a fictional story?

    With what authority do you state that this is what those verses mean? You haven't even addressed by supposition - if you are going to ignore my comments, then why should I bother responding to yours?

    Few people would suggest that there was some voice from the sky. Again, you are ignoring my response. What makes you think Noah would have suddenly had insight into the size and shape of the planet? For that matter, if he did, why was that knowledge lost for the next 6 or so thousand years? You are holding fast to interpretations which support your beliefs, and refuse to accept any possible alternatives. You are as bad as any creationist.

    You really don't know anything about the Bible, do you? The Old Testament wasn't written in English, it was written in Hebrew. Then it was translated into Greek, then latin, then English. There may be some translations direct from the Greek into the English, and perhaps some of the OT from Hebrew into English, but ALL of these are living things. Languages change over a span of 50 years, and linguists recognize that they change a LOT over thousands of years. You have created an image of God that you can demonstrate to be false, and to that I do not disagree. But don't tell me it is MY God. Because it isn't. You haven't done anything to address MY God. You have simply ignored it. As I said above - you're as bad as any creationist. Either keep up with the topic at hand or get left behind. This will be my last message that indulges your stubbornness.
     
  19. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    SolusCado,

    So that I am clear with our discussion. This would mean that your intent should be to re-interpret the original text written in Hebrew. No ?
     
  20. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Quite simply I am far more educated then the authors, I know a lot of things they the didn't, and I understand what happens when human behavior and human ignorance have a creative baby (I can show u examples of that if you like on these very forums). That is how their perspective becomes obvious. As far as intent is concerned, I made no claims about it nor does it interest me at this stage.

    With the authority vested in me by the president of the united states. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to correctly interpret simple English words and sequential events.

    I only ignored one comment because it is utterly irrelevant to what part of Genesis 2 I was focusing on.

    Nobody suggested there was.

    You are asking questions whose answers simply show the bible to be incorrect. Assuming Noah was a real person, he would have little to no knowledge of Earth's macro topology; however, there it is in the bible that he was directed to take all of EARTHS species and stuff them into a tiny ark. There are no alternatives to the very clear and explicit words used. It's just wrong.

    I know it's a big book-o-fiction. Ani otser ivrit yafeh maod; however, you do not which is why we are addressing an English translation. If you want to go the path of hebrew, I am all for it; however, you're going to have to take a few classes before you will be ready for that. Any other language would be a waste as it's just "another translation".

    You took the path of claiming that you believe in the Biblical god. I can show you in case you have forgotten. What I demonstrated to be false is that very same god.

    I have consistently taken your claims of god, starting off from the non-religion-specific claim to the biblical claim and shown them to be false. That is what I claimed I could do and that is what I have done. I can't make you accept it and I can't make you understand it... that is 100% your problem.
     
  21. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    Ideally. I will admit, I'm not the most educated in the subject, but that is indeed my goal.
     
  22. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    I looked under every rock in the Universe and I found nothing, well beside a few toads. So I can safely say, there is no god in the known Universe. Now if you ask me the Rumsfeldian question about the unknown Universes....
     
  23. SolusCado Registered Senior Member

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    You have officially rendered your perspective irrelevant.
     

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