Word of the Day. Post it Here

Captain Kremmen said:
RP was never traditionally hated. If you watch any English Film from the 1940s you will hear it spoken constantly, and with no overtones of snobbery or privilege. Cockneys (from London) and Brummies (from Birmingham) would have watched whole films with people speaking in this accent, and not remarked upon it.
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I didn't mean to imply that it was hated. Merely that it was an artificial creation, and it's not usually very easy to get people to accept something like that. After all, the whole point was to create an accent that would instantly identify members of the "upper class," as democratization and the attrition of the aristocracy made them more difficult to identify by appearance--no footmen, for example. ;)

However, its appearance coincided with the dawn of the Electronic Age, and every language community needs a standard dialect (or at least accent) that everyone can understand easily. In America it was developed gradually. The national network radio (and later TV) studios were in Hollywood and New York City, so the population heard announcers speaking with California and New York accents, which aren't very different. Eventually the minor differences were leveled and that became Standard American English.

In England they just took RP because it already had the advantage of being a non-regional, relatively "neutral" accent/dialect that everyone could understand without much effort. In the early days it was often called "Oxford English," especially by Americans, because it was introduced to the country by teaching it to upper-class children in their private schools, which are confusingly called "public schools" over there. But now we call it "BBC English" because it's used in all the broadcasts.

It has changed over the decades. If you listen to a speech by Queen Elizabeth early in her reign and compare it to the way she talks today, it almost sounds like a different person. We notice the difference over here; back in the 1950s I found it almost impossible to understand the dialog in a British movie. Today it's easy. Some of that is of course the result of the British Invasion in rock'n'roll, hearing the Beatles and Herman's Hermits on the radio every day, and popular TV shows like Monty Python and Upstairs Downstairs. We got used to it so it's easier to understand. But even John Cleese and Eric Idle don't talk quite the same as they did forty years ago.
I wonder if the change did not come about with the advent of Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, from Grantham. (East Midlands) Despite being from a shopkeeper's family, she had a shrill RP accent that now instantly raises the hackles of many Englishmen.
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That's an issue we don't know about on this side of the Whaleroad.
 
jackass.jpg
 
its hilarious to see an american lecturing an englishman
the bloody cheek!

Fraggle Rocker said:
I didn't mean to imply that it was hated. Merely that it was an artificial creation, and it's not usually very easy to get people to accept something like that. After all, the whole point was to create an accent that would instantly identify members of the "upper class," as democratization and the attrition of the aristocracy made them more difficult to identify by appearance--no footmen, for example. ;)
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oxford put out a goddamn dictionary
in said goddamn dictionary, there are goddamn words
for each goddamn word, there is a goddamn pronunciation key

these days we even have... goddamn sound


do you fucking get it?
there was no fucking conspiracy
just scholars scholaring
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
I didn't mean to imply that it was hated. Merely that it was an artificial creation, and it's not usually very easy to get people to accept something like that. After all, the whole point was to create an accent that would instantly identify members of the "upper class," as democratization and the attrition of the aristocracy made them more difficult to identify by appearance--no footmen, for example.
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Eh?

In Europe, we are usually taught that standard varieties of national languages (here's a link to the German one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German) were developed for the sake of making communication easier across the land where many dialects were spoken that were otherwise not so easy to understand by people from a different dialect.
Someone from Southern Germany would not so easily understand someone from Northern Germany, for example, even though they both speak German dialects. But both can easily understand eachother if they speak and write Standard German.

Most European countries/nations have this complex dialectal make-up.
The dialectal variations within a traditional national language in Europe are far greater than those in the US/American English.
(This happens to be a topic that is usually quite difficult to explain to Americans.)

The need for standardization became more apparent with the development of the press and greater availability of printed materials - and the impracticality of having to translate every text into numerous dialects.

Another important factor was the spread of Protestantism. The Protestants were the first ones to widely translate the Bible into the national languages. It was simply too impractical and too costly to try to translate the Bible into every dialect. A standard language also made the communication between the clergy from different parts of the country easier (as the Protestant clergy does not rely so much on Latin as the Catholic one).

Moreover, the national awareness of the rulers and people grew (the revolutions in the 18th and 19 century), trying to create one-nation states. Having one language per nation was a necessity.


Speaking the standard variation was not intended to automatically indicate the upper class of the speaker, although that is sometimes the secondary effect.
 
Signal said:
In Europe, we are usually taught that standard varieties of national languages were developed for the sake of making communication easier across the land where many dialects were spoken that were otherwise not so easy to understand by people from a different dialect. Someone from Southern Germany would not so easily understand someone from Northern Germany, for example, even though they both speak German dialects. But both can easily understand each other if they speak and write Standard German.
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Of course. In fact if you travel far enough westward in Germany you encounter dialects that could just as easily be called dialects of Dutch. The same is true of the areas where Czech and Slovak, or Spanish and Catalan, or Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian meet. The nature of a dialect continuum is such that neighbors can understand each other, but not necessarily the folks at the ends of the continuum.
Most European countries/nations have this complex dialectal make-up. The dialectal variations within a traditional national language in Europe are far greater than those in the US/American English. This happens to be a topic that is usually quite difficult to explain to Americans.
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But not among our sophisticated members. :) We all are aware of the much greater differences among the dialects in the U.K. Since radio and TV began exerting their leveling influence, the differences in American speech are really only accents (pronunciation) rather than dialects (vocabulary and/or grammar).

But when I was a kid in the 1950s, I found Southern American dialect very difficult to understand. And British, of course, was impenetrabale.
The need for standardization became more apparent with the development of the press and greater availability of printed materials - and the impracticality of having to translate every text into numerous dialects.
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Which is why accents survive. China is the most outrageous example of this phenomenon. Since its writing system is not phonetic, regional accents kept diverging to the point that they are no longer even slightly intercomprehensible. Cantonese, Mandarin, Shanghai, Fujian, etc., are distinct languages, with the unique characteristic that they all use the same words in the same sequence (about 98% anyway) so they can all read each other's writing.
Moreover, the national awareness of the rulers and people grew (the revolutions in the 18th and 19 century), trying to create one-nation states. Having one language per nation was a necessity.
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China is still working on that, with the populace kicking and screaming in protest. Mandarin is now taught in all schools, so in another couple of generations everyone in the country will at least understand it. At that point they'll be able to make the transition to the phonetic writing system that has already been developed--expect more kicking and screaming at that time.
Speaking the standard variation was not intended to automatically indicate the upper class of the speaker, although that is sometimes the secondary effect.
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I beg to differ about R.P. Wikipedia cites a typical reference at the time of its introduction:
. . . . Received Pronunciation was the "everyday speech in the families of Southern English persons whose men-folk [had] been educated at the great public boarding-schools" and which conveyed no information about that speaker's region of origin prior to attending the school.​
Note that it was indeed a leveler of region, but not of social class.

Standard Italian was synthesized primarily from the dialect of Florence, because it was considered the country's center of culture and education. Standard American is a synthesis of the accents of Hollywood and New York City, rather than Washington, the seat of government, or Boston, our self-appointed cultural leader. The reason of course is that Hollywood and New York were the locations of the radio and TV studios, and that's the language that all Americans have been hearing for three-quarters of a century.
 
* * * * NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR * * * *

Gustav has been banned for two weeks for the unnecessary and inappropriate language in Post #643. Please keep the discourse civil on this board. We all spout off once in a while, and of course on the Linguistics board we're free to discuss the etymology of curse words. But not to toss them around eight times in one post. Particularly when directed at the Moderator.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
* * * * NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR * * * *

Gustav has been banned for two weeks for the unnecessary and inappropriate language in Post #643. Please keep the discourse civil on this board. We all spout off once in a while, and of course on the Linguistics board we're free to discuss the etymology of curse words. But not to toss them around eight times in one post. Particularly when directed at the Moderator.
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I think he likes you Fraggle . Just like the boy on the play ground that pulls the girls hair . O.K. dually noted . I will curb my own vulgarity . I was thinking of starting a thread on the fine line of vulgarisms and the acceptable discussion with discourse . I know I am confused a little were that line might be.
I feel I am on the verge of crossing it sometimes . Like the G spot thread . There was much more I could have contributed in the way of sexual satisfaction . No ME . I think you should all know . It could make you all more happy as individuals . I am sure it would cross the line of vulgarity .
Poop seems to be another taboo . I could help you all with that too. I don't know why all the other animals in the kingdom don't have a problem with this . I think it has something to do with Existing Ache types . Did I say it right Fraggle . Religious moralities embedded into our brains
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
I think he likes you Fraggle.
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No, he is on every Moderator's radar. The reason I could give him a two-week ban is that he already has infractions from other Moderators and he was that far along in the ban cycle.
I will curb my own vulgarity.
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Nobody's going to get draconian on your hynie if you just pop out a few words, especially not without a couple of warnings first.
I was thinking of starting a thread on the fine line of vulgarisms and the acceptable discussion with discourse. I know I am confused a little where that line might be.
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That's perfectly acceptable. We have hosted discussions of all the popular cusswords. Their etymologies are very interesting. Why is slang for defecation a venerable old Anglo-Saxon word that even goes back to Proto-Germanic, with cognates in almost all the other Germanic languages, whereas we had to borrow a slang word for urination from the French? Where did the F-word come from? It's not the oft-suggested acronym "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" because illiterate societies do not understand acronyms. (I didn't spell out the words because I'm posting through a corporate server, not because of any taboo.)
I feel I am on the verge of crossing it sometimes.
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If you do, someone will politely tell you so, not reach straight for the Ban Stick. Gustav is a repeat offender. Not necessarily a specialist in profanity, but he has violated several of the website's rules and continued to do so without any attempt at reforming. When you have a rap sheet like that, cussing out a Moderator is not going to help your plea for leniency.
Poop seems to be another taboo. I could help you all with that too.
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Feel free. But I doubt that it's a linguistics issue so it probably belongs under Biology, Human Science, History, or perhaps my other board Art & Culture.
I think it has something to do with Existing Ache types. Did I say it right Fraggle? Religious moralities embedded into our brains.
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The word is archetype, pronounced AR-kuh-type. In Jungian theory it's a motif (image, ritual, legend, fear, etc.) that occurs in nearly all cultures in nearly all eras. Jung died before genetics matured into a major science, but today we would say that an archetype is a set of synapses programmed into our brains by evolution. A type of instinct. Since something that we have "known" since birth feels more true than anything we learn later through reasoning and learning, archetypes are powerful. Many of them are survival behaviors that were passed down by natural selection since, for example, if an animal doesn't have the instinct to run away from a larger animal with both eyes in front of its face, it won't live long enough to mate and pass on its genes. But other archetypes may be accidental mutations that were lucky enough to be passed down through a genetic bottleneck or by genetic drift, and they may have no impact, or even a negative impact, on survival.
 
My new word . It will be a long time before it makes Websters dictionary
" Fa Fow " it is the opposite of Mo Fow !!!
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
No, he is on every Moderator's radar. The reason I could give him a two-week ban is that he already has infractions from other Moderators and he was that far along in the ban cycle.Nobody's going to get draconian on your hynie if you just pop out a few words, especially not without a couple of warnings first.That's perfectly acceptable. We have hosted discussions of all the popular cusswords. Their etymologies are very interesting. Why is slang for defecation a venerable old Anglo-Saxon word that even goes back to Proto-Germanic, with cognates in almost all the other Germanic languages, whereas we had to borrow a slang word for urination from the French? Where did the F-word come from? It's not the oft-suggested acronym "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" because illiterate societies do not understand acronyms. (I didn't spell out the words because I'm posting through a corporate server, not because of any taboo.)If you do, someone will politely tell you so, not reach straight for the Ban Stick. Gustav is a repeat offender. Not necessarily a specialist in profanity, but he has violated several of the website's rules and continued to do so without any attempt at reforming. When you have a rap sheet like that, cussing out a Moderator is not going to help your plea for leniency.Feel free. But I doubt that it's a linguistics issue so it probably belongs under Biology, Human Science, History, or perhaps my other board Art & Culture.The word is archetype, pronounced AR-kuh-type. In Jungian theory it's a motif (image, ritual, legend, fear, etc.) that occurs in nearly all cultures in nearly all eras. Jung died before genetics matured into a major science, but today we would say that an archetype is a set of synapses programmed into our brains by evolution. A type of instinct. Since something that we have "known" since birth feels more true than anything we learn later through reasoning and learning, archetypes are powerful. Many of them are survival behaviors that were passed down by natural selection since, for example, if an animal doesn't have the instinct to run away from a larger animal with both eyes in front of its face, it won't live long enough to mate and pass on its genes. But other archetypes may be accidental mutations that were lucky enough to be passed down through a genetic bottleneck or by genetic drift, and they may have no impact, or even a negative impact, on survival.
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I don't think the Jung is dead yet my bro . Dude you are so helpful you make me cry . The eye thing . A man can chase an animal away with it . We are the most powerful animal on the planet and all animals know it . Other predators will kill you if they smell fear in you and your not part of a group . I guess I can say that because I am Mother natures son my man. You would not believe it if I told you . No bother . Jung is alive and kicking and it is extremely powerful . You just the man my man . Mr. lingo him self . You prove it you write your ticket
 
floccinaucinihilipilification

Does anyone know the first use of this word?

and in German 'Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft'
"Association for subordinate officials of the head office management of the Danube steamboat electrical services"
 
HENRY

"HENRYs, or high earners not rich yet -- still feel financially vulnerable, she said.
In 2006-2007, this group was really spending their perceived wealth, and now they are spending their real income,”
 
god·damn
   /ˈgɒdˈdæm/ [god-dam]

1.
used as an exclamation of any strong feeling, especially of disgust or irritation, and often followed by it.

2.
the utterance of “goddamn” in swearing or for emphasis.

3.
something of negligible value; damn: not to give a good goddamn.

Example!
 
I always thought goddamn was just a swear word.
Now I realise it is an exclamation as well, I will use it far more often.
 
Fraggle #636
"OK" may be the most widely adopted English word on Earth. In some languages it retains its English pronunciation and is respelled phonetically, such as Spanish oquei, Czech oukej and Italian occhei. In others it retains the spelling and is read as the names of the letters, such as Hindi theek hai and Finnish ookoo.

OKAY or ok is understood universally in India. theek hai too means But mind you TH here is NOT Pitman ITH. It is hard.

थीक है is NOT ठीक है While haggling an American tourist might say थीक है. The dealer SHALL know it is ठीक है

Indians are liguist portable.
 
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