Leaving America: Giving up citizenship

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Islamsmylife, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. Islamsmylife Registered Senior Member

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    I am looking to leave America and move to Asia, following in the footsteps of wise economists such as Jim Rogers and others. I along with many other College educated citizens in the US take out loans in order to fund their College education. I was told (although I was not shown proof and I am currently unaware as to where that proof lies) that if you give up you American citizenship then all you government debts are expunged. Does anyone know if this is the case?

    If this is true I will not become 'a man home to no land', rather I will attempt to attain citizenship in Canada prior to my departure to Asia. Both my wife and my daughter are Canadian citizens.

    Any advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Your debts are something that will follow you even if you change your citizenship. You see the businesses that you bought stuff from don't care where you are from but that you pay off the debts that you incure. If you move they might find it hard to find you but they eventually will because you will reapply somewhere for credit again and that's when they will reach out and get to you. Why don't you want to pay off debts that you have, trying to cheat the system so you can try to get away with buying stuff and not paying for it? :shrug:
     
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  5. jmpet Valued Senior Member

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    Declare bankruptcy.
     
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  7. superstring01 Moderator

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    A few things to consider:
    • The US isn't perfect, but renouncing your citizenship will cause you to lose a host of benefits, the biggest of them is the fact that the US sincerely bails its people out when they find themselves in trouble overseas. I can think of, maybe, two countries that do this with more zeal (France and Britain).
    • It's pretty pathetic to attempt to avoid a debt that you created knowing full well you'd have to pay it back by "renouncing" your citizenship.
    • No. Giving up your citizenship will not cause you to have your debt expunged. Education debt in the US never goes away. Even if you declare bankruptcy or move away. The US doesn't suddenly become magnanimous to those who give up citizenship. You won't even lose your social security number or be taken out of any system. You will simply loose the right to be a citizen. That's it. Nothing else.
    • That said, simply moving outside the USA is enough--generally--to keep the creditors from bugging you, so if that's your goal, then there's no need to do anything else. Each nation has their unique laws and--for the most part--our "debt" laws don't allow our creditors to chase you overseas. No need to give up your citizenship.
    • If you're moving to a place like Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, the Philippines or Taiwan then the debt, itself, might continue to "haunt" you in that most of the Bureaus (TransUnion, Experian, Equifax, Innovis [the rarely used "fourth" bureau] and PRBC [the little known and quirky "fifth" bureau] as well as a few others that do commercial credit: Cortera, SACM and Dunn & Bradstreet) operate all over the world, in most countries, and will link your report scoring in your new nation to your old scores. This is especially true with D&B who operates in every nation on earth. You may not get arrested or get harassed by collectors, but you will have that on your credit report forever (as I said, education loans never go away).
    • If you're moving to a place like India or Pakistan, you might avoid it altogether because they have their own, independent and not-so-orderly credit monitoring regulations and agencies.

    Why is credit so important? Ugh. I started a thread about this about a year ago, and in a nut shell, it follows you everywhere and is even used by companies to determine your "worthiness" before giving you a job. There's no need to monitor your credit like guys like me (I'm a little obsessive), but you should work to protect it as much as possible.

    ~String
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't apply to student loans.
     
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    is this what the "wise economists" taught you to do?

    ripoff.
     
  10. Islamsmylife Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks superstring01 for the good advice. Although I don't care much about the personal debts I have, (they are not much at all). I care more about my federal college loan debt which will always accrue and it seems like it will take me maybe 25 years to finally pay off. That's slavery.

    And no I did not hear that information from Jim Rodgers (a wise economist) I received that information from a friend of mine.
     
  11. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i'd hardly call it slavery if you opted to incur the debt. you didn't have to.

    also, just curious... if islam is really your life, then what does islam say about stealing?
     
  12. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting idea but I'd be more keen on giving up US citizenship if it meant I could move permanently to asia or somewhere without all the laws and bureaucracy of this country. I am not fond of the US war on terror, which is just pathetic NONSENSE they are the terrorists just stay in your own fucking country US idiots stop policing the world, sheesh. Anyways yea if I want to move to another country and live I must have skills they deem worthy on their list, then apply :L I hope one day to move to Australia, a land I feel would offer more to a weird person like me :L They have Kangaroos too

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  13. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I'm curious as to whether a debt can indeed be pursued in a foreign country, even if it's a country that doesn't otherwise give a damn about pursuing Americans fleeing debt. I imagine it can't be legal to owe money and just bail for 10 years as if you were suddenly kidnapped by the Sasquatch and kept prisoner in its lair the whole time. And most countries have some form of extradition treaty for prosecuting people who travel abroad to flee the law.

    So if, for example, someone became a Chinese resident to escape a debt in the US, wouldn't the original debtor be able to sell the debt to a Chinese investor and have the sale legally recognized in both countries? At that point, he would owe the Chinese banks money, and they would probably be at his door faster than the fire department to pick it up.
     
  14. John99 Banned Banned

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    Most likely the host country will know you are a crook though.
     
  15. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    God has a sense of humor;
    it would be more like the company you owed money to lives in the country you are moving to.
     
  16. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Give bad advice to people.

    Student loans are probably the biggest bullshit in the US and looks like never clearly explained. Basicly anyone can qualify for it, and yes, it stays with you forever. There is only one other thing like that, childsupport.

    Bankruptcy clears everything except these 2 things.

    Now why student loans are BS? Because about half of the students in colleges shouldn't be there at all. There is an inflation of the value of a college degree, due to cheap and aviable student loans. Student loans are a good thing, for qualified people, who have a realistic idea what they want to be. But to go to college on a student loan and study basketwaving and similar BS topics, that is criminal and people end up having issues like the OP...
     
  17. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    issues? like poor planning and/or no morals? give me a break, really.

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  18. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Really? Just exactly who was it that held a gun to their head and FORCED them to go to college in the first place????????
     
  19. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    As I recall, first offense for stealing under Islamic law is the removal of the left hand via saber.

    If Islam is indeed your life, then you will need to shed that hand if you are intent on stealing the money that you 'borrowed' under the pretense of studying at university.

    If you have merely made a poor choice of major and are not reaping the anticipated benefits, than man up to your responsibility and pay the man as you promised.
     
  20. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Issues like buying into the "college degree for everyone" and "you can efford it too" BS.

    What high school students should understand that college is a BUSINESS (they educate basicly anyone for money) and education is an INVESTMENT.

    They made a bad investment, most likely based on faulty information. Getting a student loan shouldn't be as easy as getting a mortgage 5 years ago, but at least you can walk away from the mortgage in a bankruptcy.

    So beside the student, I blame the government and the education system too for leaving them with a non cancellable payment for the rest of their lifes.

    How many of the high school cancellors telling this honestly to the students? Very few... If you throw money at an 18 year old, he/she will take it without hesitation...Just like the low earning people the high mortgages.
     
  21. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i don't buy this for one minute, and even if i did, being stupid is not an excuse. this guy isn't even trying to pay back his loans, he just wants to skip out on them. i paid back my loans. i also planned ahead, and i knew exactly how much money i was borrowing and the terms. it's not fucking rocket science. also, i don't know about the majority, but my high school counselors were shit; they didn't help me with shit.

    bottom line, if you don't want the debt, then don't go to school. that's very easy.
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Heh. Nice one.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Here is the deal, the US has agreements with some countries that allow the US government to garnish wages, property, etc . of people living in those countries (e.g, Canada). So even if you flee to a country that has no such agreement today, there is no guarantee that will be the case tomorrow or a year from now or ten years from now. The US government has some pretty long arms.

    Two Rodgers is not an economist. He is a pundit and a salesman. There is a difference.
     

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