Why Theists call atheism a Rejection of God

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by aaqucnaona, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Couldn't agree more.

    For example, in our conversation about the possibility of there being a verifiable god, her insistence that "knowing" this verifiable being required studying current holy texts made any rational discourse on the subject impossible.
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    To ignore one's own terms when it comes to understanding others, is a recipe for confusion, to say the least.

    And yes, by my own approach, I do think I understand others better, even if they don't feel understood.
     
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Feel free to

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    and surely you will find God!

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  7. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    wynn

    Rather, it is the only strawman that supports your argument. The Atheist you have presented is every bit as irrational as a theist who says he knows there is a god and he personnally can read his mind(hears his voice, has a book that infallibly tells us all about him, has a Pope that is his demi-god here on Earth, etc.). Both positions are irrational, black/white, on/off positions that cannot be supported. You are painting a picture of atheists that has nothing to do with what almost all Atheists(yes there are some really stupid Atheists)actually think or say.

    No, it is like saying I refuse to learn Chinese from a book written by someone who had really never heard Chinese or visited China. Because you have never presented any reason to think any of the god believers and apologists who wrote the books know anything, they are writing arguments and pronouncements about something they can't even show exists other than in their own imaginations and cultural indoctrinated beliefs. I'm not against Christianity, I think the philosophy of Jesus is a valid one with much to say about moral living. But the magical, mythical aspects not even the four gospels(not to mention the hundreds of others rejected for publication in the Bible)can agree on. Not convincing at all.

    Grumpy

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  8. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I suggest you re-read that book, my friend.
     
  9. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    JDawg

    I do not claim Jesus was infallible, he almost certainly was not a god, it's even likely that some of the words attributed to him were added at a later date by someone else(the whole story was at least 50 years old before the texts we have were written)and none of the four Gospels agree on much of anything. But Jesus's philosophy is a pretty good(though not perfect)one for living with your fellow man. It boils down to "Do unto others..." or "As ye have done to the least of these...", though you wouldn't know that by the behavior of some who call themselves Christian including many politicians.

    Grumpy

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  10. Balerion Banned Banned

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    But that is to cherry-pick one of Jesus' teachings among countless others that are neither moral nor responsible. He urges his followers to eschew family ties and to live without care for the morrow. That is his central tenant, not love. It is mindless worship, and there are no bargains to be made: Believe me, follow me, worship me, or burn in hell eternally. Without total prostration, all of your good deeds are meaningless. How is this moral teaching?
     
  11. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    JDawg

    As one should do with all philosophies from any source. And I think you are mistaken in your take as the central message of Jesus.

    Grumpy

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  12. Balerion Banned Banned

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    But then one should be honest about the parts of the philosophy that were left out. Portraying his overall message as "good" simply is not accurate.

    Am I? Please elaborate.
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Simply put: you consider yourself an authority on matters of "God".

    :m:
     
  14. Balerion Banned Banned

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    So to continue this analogy, you're saying that unless you speak Chinese, you cannot tell when someone is speaking gibberish and calling it Chinese.
     
  15. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed.
     
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

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    So if I say "Ching chong dong fong sheo chauleon ding," you have no idea if it's gibberish or Chinese?
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Of course.
     
  18. Balerion Banned Banned

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    That's absurd. Of course you can.
     
  19. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I don't speak Chinese, so I don't know whether what you wrote is Chinese, or gibberish.
     
  20. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Okay, so you're dishonest as well as intellectually bankrupt.
     
  21. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Why? You'll need to explain this.


    How is a person who doesn't speak Chinese supposed to know whether something is in Chinese or not?
     
  22. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    Wynn, is it really too much for you to concede a point or make a proper and valid case for your argument? Please, you are driving me insane - stop with the dodging and cherrypicking of statements to poke holes in and for a change, knock us down - present a clear and strong reason or substantiation for why a theist is supposed to be more open to God or more likely to find God than an Atheist and why being rational, sensible and open minded is not enough. And do actually make a CASE this time, no oneliners please, we all have gone over millions of times. So, pretty please

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    get this conversation going SOMEWHERE.

    Now to lighten the mood -

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  23. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Well, the analogy isn't perfect, but speaking generally, all one has to do is consider the source: Do you have any reason to believe that I actually speak Chinese? Have you seen these words in any other context that would lead you to doubt my claim of fluency?

    The same applies to religion. I don't need to know how to "speak god" (which is a false dichotomy, by the way, as there may not even be a god to know) to know that the religions humanity have created are fabrications. All I have to do is look at how Islam is a plagiarism of Christianity, how so much of the actions which fulfilled prophecies in the New Testament are said to have been done for the express purpose of fulfilling those prophecies, how so many of the myths in all of the Abrahamic religions are found earlier in Akkadian and Sumerian religions.

    I can see how the popular figures of these religions all share striking similarities with hundreds of other gods and heroic figures, both Mesopotamian and otherwise.

    All of this speaks against the validity of those religions. I don't know how anyone who has this information could ever believe in god. At least not the god(s) presented by modern religion.
     

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