Enlightenment in 3 quick and easy steps

[Lakon]

We could probably say that cutting someone's head off with a quick blow with a sharp sword is more "compassionate" than throwing someone into a river full of piranhas ...

But beyond that, killing is never compassionate.


What has that got to do with compassion?

If your head was to be cut off, or if you were to be thrown into a river full of piranhas, or were to be impaled or burnt at the stakes -- would you feel like you are the recipient of a compassionate act?
Would you thank your killers?

You missunderstood. I was using the term and the other references with some irony.

I suppose there might be rare occassion when a killing IS compassionate ..

a) when I shot my 17 year old dog through the head rather than leave her wreaked with cancer and suffering horribly in her last days - not even being able to stand up.

b) a relative of mine was involved in a horrible car accident a few years ago. He was basically burnt inside and out. Failure of most of his organs - except the heart. No skin left to 90% of his body. He was on a machine for a week. There was a choice to keep him going with little hope of ever living anything remotely resembling a normal life, or not. His wife and kids chose not. Out of pure compassion.

Other than incidents like these, I can't see it.

 

[Lakon]

Rejoice?

Then what ? (keeping in mind we're talking about 7.3 billion healthy, well fed, desease free, war free humans).

About the Russian family - I have noooooo idea what you're talking about. Link ?

Other than this, your general comments and the condition you stated you find yourself in, seems to me like the planet / nature has in fact started to clean out the gene pool.

 

[Lakon]

I'm inclined to skepticism when people start boasting of being enlightened. Boasting of being enlightened isn't something that I picture an enlightened person doing. I don't imagine an enlightened person being boastful at all. There's no need for them to be.

That is the kind of thing I meant in my earlier posts, though I probably made the point more graphically and strongly than you.

 

[elte]

Then what ? (keeping in mind we're talking about 7.3 billion healthy, well fed, desease free, war free humans).

Then they could enjoy living.

About the Russian family - I have noooooo idea what you're talking about. Link ?.

Here's the article. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ontact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html

Other than this, your general comments and the condition you stated you find yourself in, seems to me like the planet / nature has in fact started to clean out the gene pool.

You prove my point about yourself.

 

[Lakon]

Then they could enjoy living.

And what main things does living involve ? What do healthy, well fed unthreatened humans do rather rapidly, and what do they need to do it ?

Here's the article. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ontact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html

Still doesn't show or say what it has to do with me !

You prove my point about yourself.

What point was that ?

PS - interesting that you didn't deny that nature is cleaning out the gene pool in your case.

 

[elte]

And what main things does living involve ? What do healthy, well fed unthreatened humans do rather rapidly, and what do they need to do it ?

I knew what you were getting at. Man, this is the enlightenment thread and sex and reproduction are just about the most unenlightened things there are. Just about the only human activities more mundane than those are eating and pooping.

Still doesn't show or say what it has to do with me !

What point was that ?

Forget it then because below you carry on similarly. Realize that I only had to defend myself after you began the attacks, and I continue only in response. I never did anything to you from the beginning. But you apparently couldn't resist making fun of someone who did nothing to you.

PS - interesting that you didn't deny that nature is cleaning out the gene pool in your case.

It's because I don't have to disprove such a jerky statement. In your case, I mention sociopathy and competing against others which involves hurting others while not caring, and you feel guilty and have to come out of the woodwork to defend yourself, when I didn't even have you in mind at all. I had no one in particular in mind, actually. Something else, I share my human individuality, and then you come out and attack. That is what constitutes bullying. Just accept your scolding and put my posts on ignore from now on like I normally have yours.

 

[Lakon]

I knew what you were getting at. Man, this is the enlightenment thread and sex and reproduction are just about the most unenlightened things there are. Just about the only human activities more mundane than those are eating and pooping.

Man, you're the one that mentioned sex or rather, your lack of it.

Forget it then because below you carry on similarly. Realize that I only had to defend myself after you began the attacks, and I continue only in response. I never did anything to you from the beginning. But you apparently couldn't resist making fun of someone who did nothing to you.

First your body atrophies .. then your mind..

I still have NO idea what you're going on about concerning a Russian family, nor I suspect, do you. That's atrophy of the mind for you.

It's because I don't have to disprove such a jerky statement. In your case, I mention sociopathy and competing against others which involves hurting others while not caring, and you feel guilty and have to come out of the woodwork to defend yourself, when I didn't even have you in mind at all. I had no one in particular in mind, actually. Something else, I share my human individuality, and then you come out and attack. That is what constitutes bullying. Just accept your scolding and put my posts on ignore from now on like I normally have yours.

Man, this is the enlightenment thread - as you rightly observed (a rare event for you - perhaps unique thus far) in your opening comments. If you were true to that observation you would have stopped when you made it.

Edit various.

 

[elte]

Man, you're the one that mentioned sex or rather, your lack of it.

That's right. Lack can be associated with it, but hardly the other way around. That is the point we were making. People let their minds get consumed with thoughts of sex. That inhibits understanding. It's an opportunity cost.

First your body atrophies .. then your mind..

I still have NO idea what you're going on about concerning a Russian family, nor I suspect, do you. That's atrophy of the mind for you.

So if anyone's mind atrophied, its yours. You're the one who forgot.

Man, this is the enlightenment thread. If you were true to your earlier observation you would have stopped when you made it.

If you had stopped the adhoms...

 

[wynn]

I'm inclined to skepticism when people start boasting of being enlightened. Boasting of being enlightened isn't something that I picture an enlightened person doing. I don't imagine an enlightened person being boastful at all. There's no need for them to be.

In traditional Buddhism, there are some clear guidelines around assuming and declaring oneself to be enlightened. Generally, they are very careful neither to assume nor to declare it.

That in turn makes me kind of skeptical about the sort of spiritual teachers that advertise themselves in the glossy magazines.

It reminds me of that old proverb: Those who speak don't know. Those who know don't speak.

"If you think you're enlightened, your probably aren't."


I think that those who know, do speak - but are very selective about to whom, when, about what etc. Notably, an actually enlightened person wouldn't unilaterally impose themselves on others as their teacher.
But the world is full of wannabe "buddhas" who think the world owes them ear and heart.

 

[wynn]

I suppose there might be rare occassion when a killing IS compassionate ..

a) when I shot my 17 year old dog through the head rather than leave her wreaked with cancer and suffering horribly in her last days - not even being able to stand up.

b) a relative of mine was involved in a horrible car accident a few years ago. He was basically burnt inside and out. Failure of most of his organs - except the heart. No skin left to 90% of his body. He was on a machine for a week. There was a choice to keep him going with little hope of ever living anything remotely resembling a normal life, or not. His wife and kids chose not. Out of pure compassion.

Other than incidents like these, I can't see it.

I don't think that's compassion, at least not in the traditional Buddhist sense.
As far as I understood, in traditional Buddhism, the Four Sublime Attitudes, of which compassion is the second one, are to be understood and practiced in regard to the Four Noble Truths, as the Four Noble Truths are traditionally understood, in the Pali Canon.

 

[wegs]

/deleted comment.
doesn't matter.

 

[elte]

Wegs, you had some fine points. I'm especially glad that you mentioned the monks to me. Their practice of buffering themselves from distractions through their relatively simple lifestyle gives them an advantage at being insightful, and wise in general. They were relatively enlightened in many ways. They are well known for copying and preserving written knowledge during the Dark Ages. It was good and apparently insightful of you to mention them because I can personally relate to their lifestyle a lot.

 

[wegs]

Wegs, you had some fine points. I'm especially glad that you mentioned the monks to me. Their practice of buffering themselves from distractions through their relatively simple lifestyle gives them an advantage at being insightful, and wise in general. They are well known for copying and preserving written knowledge during the Dark Ages. It was good and apparently insightful of you to mention them because I can personally relate to their lifestyle a lot.

Ok, good. I didn’t want to offend anyone, so I removed the post. But, glad you found it helpful.

 

[elte]

I sure did find it helpful; thanks.

 

[Lakon]

That's right. Lack can be associated with it, but hardly the other way around. That is the point we were making. People let their minds get consumed with thoughts of sex. That inhibits understanding. It's an opportunity cost.

So if anyone's mind atrophied, its yours. You're the one who forgot.

If you had stopped the adhoms...

No ad homs .. I really feel most of your posts are so wrong and that you're quite misguided. They were also quite off topic, particularly your post 103 that I responded to. But then, my response was equally off topic.

So I will leave it there with you, and just stick to the topic - enlightenment.

 

[Lakon]

In traditional Buddhism, there are some clear guidelines around assuming and declaring oneself to be enlightened. Generally, they are very careful neither to assume nor to declare it.

"If you think you're enlightened, your probably aren't."

I think that those who know, do speak - but are very selective about to whom, when, about what etc. Notably, an actually enlightened person wouldn't unilaterally impose themselves on others as their teacher.
But the world is full of wannabe "buddhas" who think the world owes them ear and heart.

"If you think you're enlightened, your probably aren't."

I tend to agree.

 

[Lakon]

I don't think that's compassion, at least not in the traditional Buddhist sense.

Well, I wasn't talking about traditional Buddhism - just compassion.

As far as I understood, in traditional Buddhism, the Four Sublime Attitudes, of which compassion is the second one, are to be understood and practiced in regard to the Four Noble Truths, as the Four Noble Truths are traditionally understood, in the Pali Canon.

Don't know much at all about Buddhism. Could you summarise ?

 

[wynn]

Well, I wasn't talking about traditional Buddhism - just compassion.

One man's compassion is another man's cruelty ...

Don't know much at all about Buddhism. Could you summarise ?

I've already sent you some links.

 

[elte]

No ad homs .. I really feel most of your posts are so wrong and that you're quite misguided. They were also quite off topic, particularly your post 103 that I responded to. But then, my response was equally off topic.

So I will leave it there with you, and just stick to the topic - enlightenment.

I let you have the last adhom, and you still couldn't let it go. Please quit harassing me from now on.

 

[spidergoat]

"If you think you're enlightened, your probably aren't."

I tend to agree.

That's because enlightened isn't something you are. It's something that happens to you. There may be a trigger, but it doesn't happen for any discernible reason. It could be purely biological.