Time Travel is Science Fiction

This thread, and "Is time real" thread, has been full of artful dodges, irrelevant red herrings, and invalid analogies, to discredit or invalidate what GR says about time.

100% TRUE.

Agreed in its entirety. Well put.

 

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Except maybe yourself.
As I have told you and other alternative hypothesis pushers, since my day one on this forum, if you had anything of substance at all, you would not be here. But you are here, simply because these forums, are the only outlet you and your kind have to boost your own failing egos.
That is just as much a fact as the fact that time travel is not forbidden by GR and the laws of physics.

 

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What might they be - give an example.
I have several times noted (now in more technical terms) the two disjoint sets are "not forbidden" and "is permitted"

Not Paddoboy's "not forbidden" and "is possible."
Also I mainly quote what others, like newton and more modern physicists have actually said, not tell in my own words what I understood them to be saying.

I hope to soon return by edit with an example or two.

 

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Hi paddoboy, i will try and get back to this. Just, i am short on time right now and have business to attend to.

 

Interpretations of QM are pedagogical interpretations of the same theoretical model quantum mechanics. For the most part they choose to describe the phenomena using stuff which would be easier for humans to understand. IE they're essentially teaching tools. What GR has to say about the two different possibilities. Traveling into the future of a different local proper frame such as the relativistic rocket traveling into the future of a local proper frame on earth. That prediction has been verified with the GPS experiment and other experiments before the GPS. The other being traveling into the future, or past, in your own local proper frame. For this to happen you have to violate the principle of causality which at the present relativistic physics would predict will not be violated. The short discussion with Prof Thorne, that Tashja linked, is a proposal [thought experiment] to use a wormhole to travel into the past of a different local proper frame at the black hole. For the most part I think the words 'forbid' and 'allow' are a poor choice when your talking about what predictions theoretical models make.
PS-a scourge of human interaction on the Internet is having cranks accuse you of saying something you never said. Generally the consequence of not understanding what you actually said married to some adversarial need to best you.

 

As my post 1243 has already been quoted with new post of Kip Thorne's video I give one promised example here and a second in post 1248.

Note they are speaking of real time travel - a jump to another time - not just aging more slowly.
Illustration (of a huge explosion) at this link shows what a true time machine looks like when it is turned on, but I can't make it copy here.

I. e. According to Hawkins, Paddoboy's chance of being correct that a very advanced civilization can make a time machine is:
one chance out of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That is quite like zero.

Note I am QUOTING from the same link paddoboy gives in the next post,1248, and only tells you (his POV) of what Kim thorne said.

Also see in post 1248 the actual text from the kim thorne video stongly contrasts with paddoboy's version of it

 

No, they are just talking about the more common perception of time travel as allowed for by GR.
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed

 

Un like paddoboy who only tells you his understanding, I actually quote.- Using the closed caption option in Kim Thorne' video, here, is what Kim actually said:
"...So if you have worm holes, there is a natural way to make a time machine, so this is wonderful ... (now at 2:42 in video) But when probing more deeply and talked with (@2:52) colleagues, I realized that when you are trying to turn a worm hole into a time machine this way (@3:04) that there is a universal mechanism that always creates a violent explosion (3:10) that very likely destroys the worm hole, right at the moment it begins to make time travel possible and so (3:19) time machines if you try to construct them apparently self destruct. We simply don't have the understanding of the laws of physics (3:26) to be able to speculate about that quantitatively. (3:33) We have to get a much deeper understanding of quantum gravity to get the answer whether that is possible.(3:41 – the end of the video – Kim Thorne's final answer to the question posed by the interviewer and the title of the video: “Is time travel possible”)

Can you, the reader, see the difference between what Kim Thorne actually said and paddoboy's interpretation of it?

Also Kip Thorne at http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed says:

“We physicists have identified two mechanisms that might protect chronology: (1) The exotic material that is required in the manufacture of any time machine might be forbidden to exist, by the laws of physics — forbidden to exist in the large amounts that time machines always require. (2) Time machines might always self-destruct, explosively, when one tries to activate them.”

 

Can anyone at all see any reference from Kip Thorne, or any of the other experts I have linked to, that says time travel is not allowed for by GR and the laws of physics and GR?"Or that it is impossible.

 

how would hawking know ?
is this implying hawking's primitive,human mind [ compared to the advanced species] is more advance than the advance ?
IMO, that's exactly what it says.
now days, anything hawkings said should go in one ear and out the other, but that's just my opinion.

 

Of course not - proof that something can not be done / is impossble can not be made.
Here from the "what is time" thread is where I explained that to your for the fourth time:

 

Hawking and Kip Thorne are speaking of one form of possible time travel. There are more than one, including a Kerr BH and ring singularity.
Do you know what the word "SUFFICIENTLY" means? Do you know what "could" means?
Think carefully on it, when I say, "any sufficiently" advanced civilistion "could" achieve it"
And the reason they "could" achieve it?
Simply because the laws of physics and GR do not forbid it, and those same GR equations do give possible solutions to the problem.

 

and in your case that passing from ear to ear is apparently completely unobstructed. As a physicist, Hawking is "second to none."

 

Many times in physics and math the equations have solution that are not realizable - That is why "imaginary numbers" were constructed. etc.

Again: the opposite, disjoint set to "not prohibited" is "is permitted" not your "is possible"

 

there's physicist that are far beyond hawking, they're just not publicly known.
anything public is second rate.

i also like how you diverted the first part of my post.

 

You avoid the fact that the equations of GR do give possible solutions.
You have avoided the fact that most cosmologists, [at least all those referenced here] have never said that time travel is impossible. Most admit it will be terribly difficult, if possible, but that the fact remains that if we were sufficiently advanced, then we could possibly achieve such a thing.
Probably the easiest way in my opinion, is when we are capable of relativistic speeds, or a perception of such by manipulating spacetime.
Carl Sagan said at....
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/Sagan-Time-Travel.html

"Time travel into the indefinite future is consistent with the laws of nature."

In his discussion on time travel, the many problems are mentioned, along with the fact that time dilation is also a form of time travel, just as Thorne does, and Sean, and Michio and Smolin, as well as those professors that tashja has linked to

 

Nor IMPOSSIBLE

 

Billy T, please don't use mathematical terms you do not understand.

Two sets are said to be "disjoint" if they have no common elements. The set of "all things prohibited" is disjoint from the set of "all things not prohibited", quite obviously. I cannot see that the set of "all things NOT prohibited" is in any way distinct from the set of "all things permitted". Therefore the latter pair cannot be disjoint

I would also say that the set of "all things permitted" is not disjoint from the set of "all things possible" - in fact I would say that the latter is an improper subset of the former id est some or all permitted things are possible

 

The subject is whether GR predicts it's theoretically possible. Not whether it's technologically attainable. GR predicts the wormhole thought experiment IS theoretically possible. I don't think you understand what constitutes a local proper frame. You're living in one right now. Your wristwatch time is invariant [frame independent]. The local proper time is an invariant. For the relativistic rocket example and Professor Thornes wormhole the tick ratio between two different local proper frames are being compared. The tick rate [dTau] for the rockets local proper frame over its path to Andromeda compared to the tick rate of the local proper frame on eart. For the wormhole it's the tick rate for the local proper frame at the mouth of the wormhole compared to the tick rate of the local proper frame where the wormhole terminates. One you'd be traveling into the future earth local proper frame and the other the past. The GPS satellites clock tick rate is > the earth based clock tick rate. In essence that is a micro analysis that correlates with the wormhole result. While the folks on the ISS are time traveling into the earths future. So just what do you mean when you say something like 'jump to another time'? Think about what I just told you and explain why that isn't jumping to another time. Neither one of you guys know what your arguing about. The examples I listed are Iime traveling into the future or past of a different local proper frame from the one you're living in. The OTHER example your referring to is time traveling in your own local proper frame. The one that is abused in the movies and science fiction stories written by folks who are as clueless as you on this theoretical physics. Time traveling into a different local proper frame has been empirically confirmed. The one where the principle of causality is violated hasn't been confirmed in reality or thought experiment.