Skeptic finds 4 year Bigfoot project "intriguing"

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Magical Realist, Mar 16, 2015.

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  1. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Here's a review by a skeptic of a Bigfoot expedition that was performed over 4 years in the remote mountains of Oklahoma. The evidence is VERY interesting, and reading thru the actual report, it contains alot of fascinating encounters. They even had whole live trees pushed down near their cabin. Not to mention around a 1000 rock throwing incidents. There's somethin out there in them thar woods---somethin that don't wanna be found!

    "Here’s a strange beast – a comprehensive report of a research study intended to document the apparent presence of native “wood apes” (popularly known as Bigfoot) in the Ouachita mountains of Oklahoma. The North American Wood Ape Conservancy consists of serious researchers who carefully plan their approach and document their findings. They have published a detailed report of a four year research project.

    The investigations, conducted over the course of four years, ranged from sixty to one hundred twenty days in duration, and produced experiences, evidence, and information thought to be significant, though not definitive to the point of validating the existence of a native North American anthropoid species. Some of the more notable thoughts and impressions recorded by scores of NAWAC team members are described and discussed in the Ouachita Project monograph

    Read the entire report here: Ouachita Project Monographhttp://media.texasbigfoot.com/OP_paper_media/OuachitaProjectMonograph_Version1.1_03112015.pdf
    (And you better read it before attempting to disparage it in the comments.) You’ll find that it’s well-written, intelligent and at times dramatic.

    What was NAWAC able to document? Well, not a specimen, unfortunately, though they were prepared to take one down, and did shoot and apparently hit one. Photographs? No. They had problems with trail cameras ruined by bears and, when secured, the devices were noticeable on the trails and conspicuous around the cabins. You will find documented in the report accounts of the following:

    Rock throwing incidents (over 1000)
    Wood knocking (sometimes rhythmic, responsive or mimicking)
    Metallic noise (use of rocks or hard objects on metallic objects)
    Sounds of movement through vegetation and bipedal footfalls
    Banging on the structure walls during the night
    Footprints
    Strong smell (musky, wet horse scent)
    Damaged trees (felled dead trees, broken dead or green limbs beyond natural breakage)
    Vocalizations (huffs, grunts, whistles, growls, screams and chattering)
    Indeterminate hair and blood sample
    Signatures from thermal cameras and reports of eyeshine
    Brief sightings of reddish brown to black various sized animals
    One occasion of physical intrusion into a window

    The group suggests in their hypothesis that an undocumented anthropoid is native to this remote area they call “Area X” in order to not reveal its location (on private land). They surmise that the creature primarily is bipedal and exists in social groups. They have adapted to be stealthy and avoid being in a direct line of sight."===http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/03/fou...ma-yields-intriguing-and-unexplained-results/
     
    Magical Realist, Mar 16, 2015
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  3. Daecon

    Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
     
    Daecon, Mar 16, 2015
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  5. joepistole

    joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Mountains in Oklahoma? I'd say more like hills.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
    joepistole, Mar 16, 2015
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  7. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    And yet, no pictures... no physical evidence... and no "encounters" that couldn't have easily been kids screwing with them...

    *yawn* Nothing to see here folks
     
    Kittamaru, Mar 16, 2015
    #4
  8. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yep..kids out the remote hills of Oklahoma throwing rocks and banging on trees and making howling and grunting noises and emitting wet stench smells for 4 years just for the fun of it. lol! And I guess fur and blood stains and foot prints isn't physical evidence?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
    Magical Realist, Mar 16, 2015
    #5
  9. Daecon

    Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Not if analysis of that blood or hair is "inconclusive".
     
    Daecon, Mar 16, 2015
    #6
  10. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    nope - foot prints are stupidly easy to fake, blood can be obtained from just about anything anywhere (what's the DNA evidence say on the blood?)
     
    Kittamaru, Mar 16, 2015
    #7
  11. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Point being it's ridiculous to claim some kids would be living in the woods on private land for 4 years undetected just to hoax some researchers in a cabin regarding Bigfoot. Nobody does that.
     
    Magical Realist, Mar 16, 2015
    #8
  12. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Who said they had to live there? Or are you forgetting that kids (and by kids, we're talking up to and including adults btw) have these things called legs...
     
    Kittamaru, Mar 17, 2015
    #9
  13. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    All day and night these things were going on. And the site was too remote for anyone to live nearby. Once again, ridiculous...But then you got nothing else. Oh well...

    From article:

    "Many who are dismissing the report out of hand assume that other people are doing the rock throwing. Brian responds: “As the reports states, the rocks are flying essentially *at all times* we’re there. We’ve been there for months on end over four years. If it’s people doing it, their commitment to hoaxing us is remarkable (and unrealistic). Also, though you can only take my word for it, the location makes other people being the source practically impossible. It is rugged and remote in the extreme.”
     
    Magical Realist, Mar 17, 2015
    #10
  14. Daecon

    Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    I'm dismissing it out of hand because it hasn't produced any verifiable evidence. No samples, no photos, or anything.

    All we have is their word that it, like, totally really happened, honestly guys.
     
    Daecon, Mar 17, 2015
    #11
  15. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    So, apparently, this sasquatch has nothing better to do than throw hundreds of rocks every day, hmm?
     
    Kittamaru, Mar 17, 2015
    #12
  16. exchemist

    exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    The only tangible evidence in this list is blood and hair. Either of these could - and if the researchers are serious, should - be subjected to DNA testing. Has this been done? If so, with what result? And if not, why not?
     
    exchemist, Mar 17, 2015
    #13
  17. origin

    origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Holy fuck! That is absolutely horrible!
    I can hear the morons now, "I seen sumthin, ain't shur what it was, but it was standing on 2 feet so I shot it, purty sure I hit it too!"

    You NEVER shoot a gun at something you cannot postively identify. What a completely utter fucking moronic thing to do.

    Sometimes, I feel so proud to be an American with our freedom to grab a gun and go out and be insanely reckless.
     
    origin, Mar 17, 2015
    #14
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  18. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed... apparently they followed the Dick Cheney method of gun handling...
     
    Kittamaru, Mar 17, 2015
    #15
  19. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Bigfoot NEWS:

    Kill Bigfoot And Prepare To Be Prosecuted Cortez Journal
    "The radio show "Paranormal Central" has thrown a good amount of lighter fluid on the growing fire of controversy centering around the notion of needing to present a real, dead, 8-foot-tall hominid creature to definitively prove that the creature does exist. The hosts of the show have made the downright idiotic and foolish claim that they plan on killing a Bigfoot which is luring other fellow idiots out of the woodwork but luckily has also gotten the attention of law enforcement in California who says they promise to "throw the book" at anyone who does so. What's more the Sixth Judicial District Attorney of Silverton, CA states that doing so would be considered a "criminal act as well as ethically reprehensible." But would it be murder? That remains to be determined but it's encouraging that there's such a strong response to such a crazy stunt. Sadly, we think it's just a matter of time until that question needs to be answered...Meanwhile, take a look at this very entertaining and just plain lovely video that explains the reasons Why Jane Goodall believes in Bigfoot.We'd love to hear her opinion on the above "Kill Bigfoot" idea as well. On another slightly disturbing note, the National Bigfoot Hunt 2015 in Beavers Bend State Park , Oklahoma is inviting any and all veterans to join in with Bigfoot hunters in order to "hunt and capture" a live specimen which is not a great idea either. Of course, with hundreds of random folks crashing through the forest and banging on tree trunks that state park is likely the last place Bigfoot is going to turn up. (MB)"===http://www.anomalist.com/
     
    Magical Realist, Apr 1, 2015
    #16
  20. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    That's a good question... is killing an imaginary creature murder? I guess it depends... is it a robot, or a person in a suit? If it's a robot, it's just destruction of property. If it's someone in a suit, well, then it could very well be murder (or at the least, manslaughter)
     
    Kittamaru, Apr 1, 2015
    #17
  21. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    We also in Australia have our own mythical nonsensical equivalent we call a "Yowie"
    And we have the usual photographs......


    And always being one step ahead of you Yanks, we even have a statue!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yowie
     
    paddoboy, Apr 1, 2015
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  22. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Magical Realist

    Do you have anything from a reputable news site that provides some evidence and proof? Or a scientific site?

    And about that report...

    “We pay the owners a relatively small amount annually to be on their property for such extended periods (it’s not uncommon in Oklahoma for property owners to receive modest lease payments from hunters and such). We also contribute to the upkeep of the structures as there is a fair amount of wear and tear from all those people staying there over months at a time. However, we are most often not accompanied by the owners. They are only present over a few times of the year and a handful of weekends during the summer months. Is there a motive to hoax? I suppose the only answer to that is to weigh the effort that would be necessary against the benefit of doing so. It just doesn’t make any sense from that perspective.”​


    Insert chortle here.

    There were allegations made that Brian is in marketing and so, should not be trusted. (Poisoning the well attempt?) He responds:

    “I’m in marketing, yep. Without making any attempt to try and raise anyone’s opinion of marketers in general, all I can say is I use my abilities to ensure the group is as well-presented to the public as possible. The NAWAC is filled with serious people trying to do serious things in a field littered with those it’s impossible to take seriously. It’s a daunting “branding” challenge, to be sure. Am I promoting the existence of the animal? Yes, 100%. I know they’re real and I know their habitat is threatened and I’d very much like to see them recognized and protected. Also, I take the mission of our group seriously, especially the part about education.”    ​


    Yes, I can see how unbiased and neutral this report would have been when it was headed by a man who was intent to prove they exist "100%".. And he has been paying the owners of the land he and his associates camp and live on.. Because there is no risk of the landowners hoaxing them to make sure they keep coming back and paying them and paying for the maintenance of their homes and buildings on their properties..

    Talk about a great income stream.

    Sometimes a bear is a bear is a bear.

    Since 'Brian' the bigfoot searcher has found hair and blood samples, he can send it on to Bryan Sykes ("an Oxford University geneticist well-known for his research on human evolution") and Michel Sartori ("of the Museum of Zoology in Lausanne, Switzerland").. Those two scientists actually asked for hair samples found, suspected of being "bigfoot".

    But the standouts..

    According to the report, they were staying in hunting cabins in the woods, on private property, the owner of whom they paid compensation to and for the upkeep of the buildings and the property they were using.

    Secondly, they even admitted, in the report, of bears being spotted in the area. Most interestingly, they also report finding animal tracks of various animals in their near vicinity:

    Hiking down to the cabins from about four miles away, Colyer and Higgins discovered an abundance of wildlife tracks to include what appeared to be wood ape tracks:

    15:15 – Higgins and Colyer reached the so-called “mud hole” where Higgins had originally found wood ape tracks back in 2000. There, the men found all manner of wildlife tracks, including raccoon, deer, hog, and black bear. They also found three tracks they attributed to the target species (about 14 inches in length). (Adapted from Operation Tenacity Juliet team after-action report from July 22, 2014, unpublished.)​


    Gee, look at that, matches "Vocalizations (huffs, grunts, whistles, growls, screams and chattering"..

    And apparently these things were strong enough to break large trees..

    There are too many if's in this case. And frankly the bears, are often confused with yeti's. Even in this report, in one instance, one saw a bear, grabbed his gun and then suddenly it became a possible yeti sighting because the back was not humped.

    While sitting on the porch in just shorts and a shirt, Lawrence caught a visual glimpse of a large reddish-brown animal creeping through the woods about 40 yards to the south quadrupedally; the animal was traveling east to west. For about two seconds, Lawrence saw the flat reddish-brown back of the large animal. At first, Lawrence thought the animal to be a cinnamon-colored black bear, but then thought the back was too flat. A bear would normally have a humped back. Without being dressed to investigate the visual, Lawrence grabbed his rifle and continued watching the woods.​


    Here is a photo of a black bear:

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    Note the straight and very flat back.

    There was another thing as well. The report details how bears were attracted to non-food related items:

    Higgins and Colyer returned for their first camera maintenance trip in July 2006. They found numerous photos of black bears (Ursus americanus) but no photos of the target species. They also discovered that their cameras had been, in all cases, damaged, and in some cases completely destroyed, by black bears. This necessitated protecting all subsequently deployed camera traps in heavy metal “bear boxes” secured with chains and padlocks. This made the work of deploying camera traps far more difficult, but it was necessary to keep the expensive equipment from being destroyed by black bears, attracted as they are to a variety of petroleum-based products, including fuels, oils, plastics, and rubber​


    But on another site discussing the research for this report, they tried to claim that black bears not never attracted to things not food related. Which is blatantly false.

    And oh yeah, black bears can come in a variety of colours, and yes, all the colours these 'researchers' apparently spotted in the bush in the report.
     
    Bells, Apr 3, 2015
    #19
  23. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    One glaring hole in your "bear theory"---bears don't throw rocks or bang on trees with wooden sticks. Also, a bear growl is in no way anything like a bigfoot vocalization. Here's an example of a bigfoot vocalization:



    "Rock throwing, or using other objects as projectiles, is now widely accepted as normal behavior for the known great apes. Through observations in the field over the last several decades, chimpanzees have been documented to commonly throw rocks and other items such as feces or branches at humans, other apes, and monkeys (Wilson, 2014). Rock throwing has been strongly suggested for early hominins and has been documented among the known great apes “in the context of both inter- and intra-species agonistic encounters, although some have described it as a means of initiating play or communication” (Hopkins, Russell, & Schaeffer, 2011). It has also been documented that rock throwing among the known great apes, particularly for chimpanzees, occurs during dominance demonstrations, strength exhibitions, intimidation displays, or outbursts of emotion."----http://media.texasbigfoot.com/OP_paper_media/OuachitaProjectMonograph_Version1.1_03112015.pdf

    On this website you will find recorded audio clips of wood knocks, rock throwings, huffs, "mouth pops", whistles, and vocalizations of the creature in question:

    http://woodape.org/index.php/our-research/projects/248-opmonograph
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
    Magical Realist, Apr 4, 2015
    #20
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