African lion vs Grizzly bear

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Monarch, May 10, 2015.

  1. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    I'm more interested in the up-and-coming Godzilla vs. Kaiju bout.
     
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  3. Monarch Registered Member

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  5. Monarch Registered Member

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    LARGE MALE LION KILLS A HYENA Menagerie..The big male lion. Prince, of carnival show. This lion killed a polar bear two months ago
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/7718149/

    Spitfire, the lioness which attacked and nearly killed Dyer, has slain two former trainers and one grizzly bear, and has a bad record for maiming spectators who have wandered too near the bars of her cage. RELEASED HER PREY. Spitfire released Dyer and started for the manager. She was diverted by Mack, who pushed the glowing iron through the cage bars and against her side. Dyer Jumped through the open door of the cage and was lollowed by the manager. Mundy drew the cage door hurriedly behind him, and the door shut with a clang as the lioness threw herself against it. One of Mundy's fingers was caught and bruised by the door, but he was out of reach of the animal's paws before she could exact revenge for the loss of her victim and for her singed coat. Spitfire killed her first trainer. Max Papes'-o. In Hamburg. Germany. . After she had torn a spectator ths German authorities required that she be taken out of that country. In London she killed Trainer Fred Woods. In San Francisco she killed a grizzly bear after a four hours' fight.

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/138862335/

    In interestingly the tiger out of all the big cats has a poor record against bears:

    Himalayan bear:

    The bear, on the other hand, was groping slowly but surely for the tiger's neck. The tiger, agile and strong as it was, was less enduring. It was used to killing instantaneously. It was not adapted for a drawn-out struggle, and soon the tablesturned. It was getting the worst of the fight. The bear's powerful jaws closed on its throat. The cat roared hoarsely and beat about in death pains. That was the end of a unique
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...+the+tables%22

    the bear slowly, but surely, conquers the tiger and kills him. By this duel the problem of the desired territory is solved for ever.' It is not so,
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...s+not+so%2C%22

    very large black bears of that region are powerful enough to achieve the incredible and defeat a tiger in fair fight
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...+fair+fight%22

    and another bear, where a Tiger was in the beat, howling dismally, fled to the hills. Captain M. H. Hunter related that in a beat he shot a Tiger ...
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...hot+a+Tiger%22


    LUCK NOW - The bears fought better than the tigers but they fought in a laughable style.106 Fanny Parkes adds that the King had also arranged a fight between two tigers and a horse who had the distinction of having killed two tigers earlier.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...+the+tigers%22

    But to my amazement, the little bear rose on his hind legs, growled ferociously, and slapped out with his small paws. The tiger pulled up in surprise. Four times the tiger returned to the attack; four times the little bear engaged in his desperate . bluff, and he won. The tiger, after its last attempt, turned tail, climbed high into a plane tree, and refused to descend. The little bear was unharmed.
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...s+desperate%22

    On two occasions I have seen Himalayan bears walk off with tigers'kills.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...s%27+kills.%22

    https://books.google.com/books?id=61...0tiger&f=false

    This to a Himalayan bear who fears nothing, and who will, asI have on several occasions seen, drive a tiger away from its
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Io...0tiger&f=false
     
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  7. Monarch Registered Member

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    Wolves and Dogs vs Black and Brown Bears

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    11 wolves kill two grizzly bears.
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk....0.OkvnBeqmA9M

    wolves kill 3 grizzly bears
    :https://www.google.com/search?biw=13....0.Yrwe94SzqKE

    The bear tried in vain to shake them off, and the Italian prodded the dogs with a pole, but they held. It wasn't long until Bruin sank down exhausted. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/39804772/

    12 grizzly bears killed by dogs
    :http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...T18880616.2.44

    biologist state wolves kill 3 grizzly bears
    :https://books.google.com/books?id=Qj...20bear&f=false

    2 bears killed by wolves
    :https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&....0.MH7WBNGTPRQ

    Wolves occasionally kill grizzly bears and vice versa.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=wc...wolves&f=false

    by wolves, and the majority of the 1,000 animals reported killed by wolves and bears were probably killed by wolves.
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...+by+wolves.%22

    wolves kill denning black bears:https://www.researchgate.net/profile...52ee7c18a1.pdf

    wolves dominate grizzly bear
    :https://books.google.com/books?id=-I...wolves&f=false

    wolves dominate bear
    :https://books.google.com/books?id=WM...wolves&f=false

    wolves dominate bear
    :https://books.google.com/books?id=81...wolves&f=false

    dog kills bear
    :https://books.google.com/books?id=F5...0bear&f=falsea

    small "bulldog owned by 'William Bennett rushed at. them and caught one' of the "bears by' the leg. A fierce battle ensued and the dog got a fatal grip on the throat of the bear. No one dared go to the rescue of poor bruin. The showmen, even with their poles, were unable to shake the dog's grip, and the bear was dead ; within thirty minutes.
    www.newspapers.com/newspage/76834232



    wolves kill young grizzly bear:
    http://www.wideopenspaces.com/wolves...sly-discovery/

    http://planetjh.com/2013/09/11/wolf-vs-bear-showdown/

    STAHLER: Yeah, once the bear leaves and goes into willows the wolves’ postures change and they seem content that the bear is out of the way and the threat is removed. We have had wolves kill bears in Yellowstone. It is extremely rare and it’s usually cubs-of-the-year, but they don’t targetbears as food.
    http://planetjh.com/2013/09/11/wolf-vs-bear-showdown/

    Wolves are thought to have killed two grizzly bear cubs in 2001, and they have probably killed other bear cubs without anyone noticing. Wolves have also been able to kill at least one adult male black bear that appeared to be healthy.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...be+healthy.%22

    Observations recorded during this study substantiate that wolves do occasionally kill bears.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...kill+bears.%22

    Lion kills young bear:
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,4603755&hl=en

    Bear scared of lion:
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,2596878&hl=en

    The whole article of the polar bear
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...earchTerm=lion

    Bear and lion fight scene shows a lion biting the neck of a bear

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    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...s+throat%2C%22
     
  8. Monarch Registered Member

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    How a Mule Killed a Bear. A mule dealt death to a bear that Rawls Plnmbing Co. had been terrorizing the residents of Diamond Valley. Daniel C. Shawley, lumberman and farmer, is the owner Notice. LIMESTONE STREET. The king's pr.vnte con sulfation. of the prize beast. Aroused by a commotion in his barn stocks, they were praise to Ood for he found the bear in deadly combat...Do," he smiled, encouragingly, "and my wife will give a bridge and ask all the women who will be likely to discuss It" And the air became cooler. Philadelphia Times. bulky animal fell prostrate. Then the mule reversed himself and let loose the death dealing assault from is hind quarters. The bear died shortly after Shawley reached the scene.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/78036518/


    Bears occasionally killed by big game attacked as prey, one grizzly gored to death by large bison bull.
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk...bison+bull.%22


    open, in the small pen the bull often won, chasing and goring the bearmultiple times.) ...
    https://books.google.com/books?id=7G...ear%22&f=false

    My grandfather used to get a great big mean bull and put it in with a bearand they would fight. This was before my time but I heard of it. Lots of people would come and watch. Usually the bull won
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...he+bull+won%22

    Cremony, in his Life among the Apaches, describes an incident in which acougar killed a black bear
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...+black+bear%22

    cougar killed a medium-sized brown bear"
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...+brown+bear%22

    At length he arrived there whither the Pumawas coming, dragging the black bear which he had just killed
    https://books.google.com/books?id=2H...0bears&f=false

    with the grizzly bear, and one author even stated that carcasses of bears killed by cougars had been found in northern California.
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk....%22++had+been
    Indians say that they sometimes found a grizzly bear killed by a mountain lion, but never a mountain lion killed by a grizzly
    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbm=bk...untain+lion%22

    female cougar kills bear:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=T0I9AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA5-PA149&dq=%22cougar%22+%22bear%27 s+throat%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUK Ewi8_s7TtojMAhVGzGMKHQO6DE0Q6AEI MDAB#v=onepage&q=%22cougar%22%20 %22bear's%20throat%22&f=false

    In one case a mountain lion's leg was broken by wolverine and a bear was disemboweled.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...semboweled.%22

    In a fight to the death, the mountain lion is more game than the black bear.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=rK...ear%22&f=false

    Sometimes the two animals killed each other and other times the cougar won. In a few stories the cougar vanquished even the massive grizzly bear.
    https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&hl=e...zzly+bear.%22+
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    The wolverine (known in Europe as the "glutton") is, arguably, the fiercest predator in North America. One single wolverine can take down a moose.

    The wolverine is the largest member of the weasel family, but still it's rare for one to weigh much more than 55lb/25kg.

    I've never read an account of a wolverine fighting with a bear, so I don't know which would prevail.
     
  10. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    Just goes to show that the brown bear or polar bear is not as battle experienced and skilled as most thought, and that his sized meant little in a fight of wit and prowess. That is a hundred cases of pumas, wolves and lions predatory conflicts where they conquered the bear...there is no one hundred cases of the opposite of leopards, bears and hyena killing lions...thence the entire argument upon empirical evidence lays in favor of the lion will win a fight between a grizzly...
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Lions are considerably more social than the large bears. Female lions gather in packs of ten or more, often with one or two males to augment their power. The males who are not lucky enough to be invited into a pack of females nonetheless typically travel in pairs or threesomes.

    Neither grizzly bears nor polar bears gather in groups, except females with cubs--which makes them more vulnerable, not less.

    So it's not remarkable that more bears are killed by lions than vice versa. If he's not too far inland, then of course the polar bear can escape by diving into the water. I suppose that a grizzly might try that in desperation, but he's not as well insulated and can't survive in arctic water for very long.

    However, I'm unaware of any place on earth where the territory of lions overlaps the territory of grizzly bears, much less polar bears. The bears that lions are most likely to come in contact with are brown bears and even smaller species, none of which are a match for a single lion, much less a pair of males or a pack of females. They're not strong enough to win a fight, nor fast enough to escape.

    Perhaps in the Paleolithic Era (which ended with the invention of agriculture 12,000 years ago), before there were human settlements all over eastern Asia, lions might have roamed up into the northern latitudes to hunt grizzlies. But that doesn't seem plausible because they don't have enough fur to be comfortable up there.

    If anyone has information about the cave lions who lived in the northern latitudes of Europe (and presumably other continents) during the ice age when the first Homo sapiens migrated into Europe and met the Neanderthals, please share it. Cave lions were considerably larger than modern lions and had more fur. Perhaps they could have killed grizzlies or even polar bears.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  12. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    Barbary lions once competed with atlas brown bears, and indian lions once competed with sloth bears and himalayan black and brown bears, so its not as if they are new to the bear killing buisness, cave lions > cave bears, leo atrox > short face bears, even though they were devolving and getting smaller over the thousands of years, lions most likely had advantages over bears much like the overwhelming evidence of captive fights in favor of single lions soloing bears or almost 50 times just mountain lions killed black and brown bears.

    Size doesnt concrete anything. If a female lioness can kill a grizzly bear in a hour fight, a male who is doubly more powerful and battle equipped via mane, would most likely take it even further. This is a hypothetical, via 1 on 1...we dont need any wild encounters to be accurate. Lions huddle up in groups, I would think that offers up alot more heat factors than just having slightly more hair on their bodys, and dont male lions have like 2 feet long manes? Thats alot more insulate than 2 inch hair, lions in the atlas live in higher altitudes than almost any cat, excluding the snow leopard, which than again lions were found in the himalayas as well, basically the highest mountains in the world. Its not like brown bears elude the cold by sleeping out side in blizzards, they sleep in dens or caves away from most of the freezing temperatures, dont see why lions wouldnt do that as well.

    But not interested in their habitats, more so their fighting skill, bears seems to me to be poor fighters, just because he stands bipedal doesnt mean thats a beneficial stance, mostly everyone states that as a advantage, but how is it? The bear cant catch the lion in that position (since his speed is cut in half, bears dont run as fast on 2 than 4) unless the lion sprang directly into him, and thats risky, since lions can knock down 6 year old elephants, atleast 5,000 lbs, if they can knock down an elephant that size, a bear wouldnt be able to withstand the lunge, since his sense of gravity is cut in half as a bipedal compared to a quadruped, ever seen a 2 legged chair? Far less stable than a four legged on. The bear also leaves his legs exposed, much like the black bear lion youtube fight, the bear stands bi-pedal than the lion darts for the foot, if this was a real fight...one good bite there at the foot could cripple the bear, even if the bear came down on the lions back neck area, its protected by mane...that lion was just toying with the bear, not trying to kill it.

    Bears dont swipe with their paws as often, nor does it have any blunt effect as much as the lions, they arent skillful in movements like parrying, dodging and evasive maneuverability, (they just stand there and push their weight around trying to over power) lions are, they display this against crocs one shot bites, buffalos horns, and other competition, they are well rounded because they face heavy competition consistently, brown bears would be lucky if he killed anything other than fish and carribou in his life. With no experience, comes no skill. Lions compete predate on elephant, rhino, hippo, giraffe, eland and buffalo the big six all whom can surpass 4,000 lbs and some 12,000 pounds, lions in groups gain confidence, even if taken away from the pride the skill is never forgotten, and I dont see a bear in a wild situation scarring a prime male lion neither, as most say a lion wouldnt risk a confrontation with a 1,200+ lb bear, I think thats BS...he is just as tall and his mane makes his top half just as large as any bear, even if the bear is blood lusted and looking for a death fight, the lion is more game simply on the genealogical aspect of being prone to protect the cubs. I dont discount the ebars size, bulk and strength, but the lion will fight to the death if his cubs is near by. And with all the power the lion posses in combat, I dont think the bear would be able to handle that type of unmerciful savagery.

    Atleast some records of the romans agree unanimously that the lions dominated
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3889729&page=3
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  13. Monarch Registered Member

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    interview:

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    He thereupon presented Mr. Terrell Jacobs, the gent who mixes lions and tigers in the same act and somehow manages to keep them from clawing each other to pieces. "The lion is the king of beasts," said Mr. Jacobs as soon as the subject was mentioned, "and that is not just a nice line that was thought up by the Chamber of Commerce. He really is the boss. "I'll concede that a full grown tiger can defeat a lioness or even a young lion. But put a full grown lion against a full grown tiger, and you are likely to have only the lion left when the fur stops flying. "And that is not hard to understand. All cat animals fight by biting at the throat, and clawing at the underparts of the body.

    The male lion has a thick mane, which protects his throat, so he needn't worry about that. All he has to do is work on the tiger, which is not protected by a mane. And he usually does. I think the king of beasts would win a fight between the lion and the tiger, but mind you, I am not taking sides. Tigers are nable animals, too." "But what about a lion and a grizzly bear?" Mr. Jacobs was asked. He confessed he didn't know. He had never heard of such ameeting. But he believed that if one ever took place, the lion would win. "In addition to his teeth," said Mr. Jacobs, "the lion has 18 claws which are dangerous weapons. On each front paw he has a thumb, two scissors and two rippers. On each back paw he has four ripping claws. For protection he has his mane and his own strength. "A grizzly bear slaps, and then grabs hold of his opponent, and squeezes him, I believe," he expanded. "While he was squeezing the lion, the lion would be biting him in the throat, and ripping him in the body with his claws. I think the lion would win such a battle."

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/98054180/
     
  14. Monarch Registered Member

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  15. Monarch Registered Member

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    Fierce Fight to the Death ln a Menagerie at New Orleans. New Orleans, La., Feb. 4. An attraction not down on the programme was presented at Wombwell's Menagerie last nlght after tbe performance was over and the keepers were feeding the animals. It was a fight to a finish between the lion Nerd and a huge bear, in which the king of the forest fully sustained his claim to the title. "The two beasts were in a cage with only a partition separating them. Big chunks of meat were thrown in to them. The bear was )riven the smaller share and finished his meal first Then he glanced sullenly through the bars at the lion and made a sudden lunge to get at him.

    The partition gave way and soon the two animals were engaged in a life-and-death struggle. It lasted, however, but a short time. The two brutes swayed backward and forward for a while, when suddenly Nero disengaged himself from bruin's embrace and with a powerful blow of his huge paw came squarely down on the bear' back, breaking the 'spinal column as if it had been a twig. The bear fell over dead and the conqueror walked sedately back to where he bad been eating. Lying down be calmly resumed his meal, at the same time keeping one eye on the carcass of bit enemy.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/33789852/
     
  16. river

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    17,307
    What kind of bear ?
     
  17. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    If we go by what the article says, I'm guessing brown or polar, since what else type of bear gets......huge.
     
  18. Monarch Registered Member

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    A Carpathian Bear Killed by One Blow from a Lions Paw at Wombwell's Show.

    Last night Wombwell's menagerie. at the corner of Howard avenue and Lee circle, was crowded with visitors to witness the many attractions. Though the weather was better cold outside, inside the big tent things were so snugly arranged mat everyone was comfortable. The big crowd enjoyed the different amusements offered, but had they remained a while longer they would have witnessed something that was not on the regular programme a fight between the giant lion Nero and a big black Carpathian bear. weighing about 950 pounds. There were a small number of spectators on hand. however, watching the animals being fed with raw meat, and they saw the encounter between these two ferocious beasts.

    They were in a cage together, with a partition separating them. The partition had become worn, and it was intended that this morning it be repaired. Greats chunks of meat were thrown the two animals. The lion, with his mass pounds of muscle and" bone, 1 1." u iuc utui , luici ui? titiier nmsneu hist. Then he glanced sullenly over through the Pars at the lion and bear, h Inline to get to him. Sure enough the partition broke. and in a moment the two animals were locked in a regular dim I'ov.-j 'death embrace." Cart. Maitland, Ui.-uta'jer of tne sbo. savs that the: fight was of very short duration. however, and in that time he saw cxemrtiined the marvelous strength with which the naturalists accredit lions.

    The bear fought and bit the lion for a few seconds, scratching his face to some extent and biting a small piece out of his paw. They swayed backward and forward for a while, when suddenly the lion drew back his tremendous paw' and dealt the bear a blow across the back that resounded all over the circus enclosure. It landed squarely on the bear's back breaking the spinal column as If It were a twig. the bear fell back dead, and the monarch of the forest. after sniffing at the dead carcass, walked back to where he had been eating and Irinrr alown facing the dead bear resumed his crunching on the meat before him. Capt, Maitland says. that he never before had any idea of the immense strength in the paw of a lion. The blow he hit the bear was of such force that the. spinal column hardly offered resistance to it. It was like the force of a battering ram 'be- tnnri a alT'tl-tnr4i nrAaani. n ...n, T,a bear was making every effort to chew up his lordly antagonist just before he was struck, while the lii did not nse h's tfsTU at all.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/138246807/
     
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    The polar bear is the largest ursid, typically weighing half a ton, although quite a few exceed that by 50%. Lions seldom weigh more than 500 lb (roughly 225 kg). A tiger (the largest felid) would be a closer match; the biggest weigh in at almost half a ton, roughly the same as the average polar bear.
     
  20. Monarch Registered Member

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    You saying a tiger is bigger in size compared to lion? Someone doesnt know anything about these animals. I bet you cant find a polar bear or brown bear with half the width and size of a male lions upper body:

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    So please spare me this tigers are bigger crap.


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    The lion is higher at the shoulder but shorter in the body than the tiger
    https://books.google.com/books?id=ZP7fAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA199&d q=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shor ter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwB GoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn# v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tige r%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

    The siberian tiger is the tallest sub-species and can be 3–4 feet tall:



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    The Asiatic lion in India is shorter in length than the Indian tiger, but slightly taller in shoulder height
    https://books.google.com/books?id=J0rME6RjC1sC&pg=PA110&d q=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22shor ter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEMQ6AEwC GoVChMIvZ28jMSOxgIVSouSCh3QywAn# v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22tige r%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

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    His body is longer and more slender than that of the lion, and his legs shorter,
    https://books.google.com/books?id=8BJFAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA50&dq =%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22short er%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBD goahUKEwi2r6WBx47GAhWFOpIKHbK5AJ k#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22ti ger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

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    Aside from lions having relatively longer legs,
    https://books.google.com/books?id=dbQ8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq= %22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22longer +legs%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBcQ6AE wAWoVChMIofzI_8yOxgIVi12SCh0oaQF W#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22ti ger%22%20%22longer%20legs%22&f=f alse

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    The second is the tiger, rather longer than the lion, but not so tall
    https://books.google.com/books?id=NyoqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA43&dq =%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22short er%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBj goahUKEwi2r6WBx47GAhWFOpIKHbK5AJ k#v=onepage&q=%22lion%22%20%22ti ger%22%20%22shorter%22&f=false

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    The tiger stands lower on the limbs than the lion, and is thus proportionately longer in the body
    https://books.google.com/books?id=klIjAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA374&d q=%22lion%22+%22longer%22+%22tig er%22+limbs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ 6AEwAWoVChMIi6-DvseOxgIVh36SCh0jqACs#v=onepage& q=%22lion%22%20%22longer%22%20%2 2tiger%22%20limbs&f=false


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    but the lion stands higher at the shoulder than the tiger.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=c7gRAQAAMAAJ&q=%22lion% 22+%22tiger%22+%22stands+higher% 22&dq=%22lion%22+%22tiger%22+%22 stands+higher%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved= 0CBQQ6AEwAGoVChMI3KjGrsuOxgIVAX6 SCh1-QQDw

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    Lions are largest of the African big cat species. The lion is the tallest of the felines
    http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2010/...cat-whisperer/

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    The lion... It is the tallest of all known cats reaching a height of 5 feet 5 inches
    http://burhandwi.com/big-male-lion/


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    Bengal tigers A male stands between 2 and 3 feet tall at the shoulder.
    The Shambala Preserve presented by The Roar Foundation

    CAPTIVITY

    Sultan 1,000 lbs:

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    (Hall of fame records)

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    Jaipur 932 lbs:

    (Guinness book of records)

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    WILD

    (Hunter: Daniel E Boone 900 pound lion)

    The lion weighed 900 pounds and measured over seven feet
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/80867453/

    (Hunter: David Hasinger 857 lb tiger)

    The Object at Hand
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-object-at-hand-2-104715747/?no-ist

    Biologist George schaller stated the tiger was estimated to weigh only 700 lbs, the photo of that same tiger shows more so a 300–400 pound looking tiger:

    https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-10fb37496e804ad66ed347bf891373e5?convert_to_webp=true


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Whitney

    There is also much exaggeration concerning size and weight...whereas the average will run from 3oo to 375 pounds,
    http://books.google.com/books?dq=th...d=VCAuAAAAYAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html_text

    The latest scientific weights:

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    One of the head biologist stated they do not weigh as heavy as lions:

    http://www.catsg.org/index.php?id=410

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    However, the tigers in the Sundarbans weigh just 76.7 kg, nearly half of the weight of other wild Bengal tigers, which average at 138.2 kg.

    http://www.thedailystar.net/news-detail-156957



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    http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/blog/?p=18361

    subadult (small mane)

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    Sub adult lion being weighed 280 kg Dr Almero

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    280 kg sub-adult lion killed
    http://www.impalabullets.at/catalog/1-24_en.pdf

    Male lion’s weight, depending on the living environment is between 190-280 kg
    http://www.ajibha.com/archives/31


    300 kg African male lion
    http://www.micropticsl.com/captive-and-wild-lions-in-africa/





    Tigers would stand a better chance against a polar bear? A tiger cant even hold his grounds against a leopard:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3928165
     
  21. Monarch Registered Member

    Messages:
    50
    You mean bears dont cooperate in combative hunts/fights? Brown bears and polar bears do gather in groups:

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    Pretty much everything you've stated so far has been wrong, from females do the hunting and fighting and are more dominant (Biologist George schaller, Craig packer and Jim joubert not only wrote the opposite, they would all laugh at that claim,) to the lion is the largest in size of the big cats, taller, heavier on average, the tiger is just the longer, tigers are also longer than polar bears at maximum, so should I say tigers are bigger than the largest polar bears? No, you seem too like most, cherry pick the statistics to suit your bias point of views and agenda, to tigers are larger than lions, then you cites no credible source that actually is shown weighing them or measuring their height with photos of videos. You claim bears are infinitely bigger and stronger, yet cant provide a single polar bear with a neck circumference as large as that male lion I just showed.

    Even the worlds largest polar bear at 2,225 lbs doesnt not have the same width and size neck and upper body compared to the lion, the lions uses his upper body in combat, he strikes from there, the bears weight is all at his lower body, bears do not strike with their lower half, nor do they use their paws as blunt force weapons to swipe a blow, they wrestle, grapple and use their claws to shred, unlike the lion, who uses his paws like a mace, a club, or a steam hammer to completely obliterate his opponents.

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    The lion knocked Gedo's bull down with a sideways blow of his paw, and then bit the animal through the back of the neck, killing it instantly.
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q="The lion knocked Gedo's bull down with a sideways blow of his paw, and then bit the animal through the back of the neck, killing it instantly."

    he delivers that to a zebra or a kongoni would be a death stroke — a blow on the neck from his paw. the most powerful striking arm in theanimal kingdom.
    https://www.google.com/search?q="lion" "knocked it down" paw blow&biw=1083&bih=587&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_qMj_rsXNAhVV8GMKHW4xBQgQ_AUIBygA&dpr=1#tbm=bks&q="animal kingdom. that blow is delivered with such force and scientific"

    prey to the ground by biting through the back of the neck, or by striking the animal a terrific blow with the paw, smashing the skull.
    The Wide World

    One blow of his paw can break a zebra's neck or tear rhino skin. The lion remains by his prey until he has eaten his fill
    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q="One blow of his paw can break a zebra's neck or tear a rhino skin. The lion remains by his prey until he has eaten his fill"


    You keep saying a bear can do that, a bear can whack things to death, a bear can have a stronger blow than a lion, yet you haven't provided anything to even suggest they can kill something as small as a puma with one blow of the paw. No one is saying they are incapable or moving their arms two and fro, swat or strike, but are they any skillful with it? You've yet to prove so.

    I dont need to take your opinions for anything, the biologist have noted this alleged bone crushing common paw swipe you bear fanatics speak of are nearly non-existent:

    Out of 300+ sheep killed, not one was by blow of the paw
    https://books.google.com/books?id=MeYe-Ls4EW4C&pg=PP2&lpg=PP2&dq=grizzly bears crushing blow sheep&source=bl&ots=ICKTFAznPY&sig=HLwQ-UnZ3NF2p-eNc1fGaQQVjKw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-_p_IxsXNAhVIzGMKHTtcCjsQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=grizzly bears crushing blow sheep&f=false

    Bears do not use their paws as striking weapons:


    Lions not only use it nearly every time, the lion has knock out power:
    youtu.be/Ite9n38wvG4?t=61


    This is proven by 6 times lions have killed bears with a single blow, you haven't shown anything of a brown bear or polar bear doing anything to a maned lion. Yet lions have been documented killing 700, 900, to even 1,700 lb bears, why would this be un-achievable? Lions kill zebra, buffalo and eland regularly, theres some 100+ documents of lone males doing this, with photos, videos, and book abstracts with lions killing these animals with one blow of the paw, who some elands can reach 4,000 lbs, twice as big as the worlds largest bear...in the exact opposite of those animals horses , moose , bison its vice versa, these animals kill bears more than the opposite. So again, I see your arguments as weak conjectures, baseless, feat-less, and empty, this forum is called science forum, yet you have brought in nothing in the lines of true science, all you've provided was pseudo science.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Using captive animals as "representative" of their species is not good science.

    For example, domesticated capybaras (the largest species of rodent, rapidly becoming a popular pet, reaching 150lb or more) typically live ten years, whereas in the wild they usually get eaten by one of several predators before their third birthday.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  23. Monarch Registered Member

    Messages:
    50
    What are you talking about? Melvin sunquist is the top biologist of tigers along side John sidensticker, they all said a wild lion is bigger and heavier than a wild tiger, your wild tigers as a species sticks around the 300 lb range, the links I show even have many sub-adult lions at the 280 kg mark. They are weighed in the wild. You dont even know any terms or methodology's for science. You havent used any science yet, just poor opinions and fallacy's.

    I like how you suggest a captive lion is magically going to gain 2 feet at the shoulder compared to wild lions, and that tigers will lose 2 feet at the shoulders from being captive, Ha ha, morphology takes thousands of years to happen. Not a single generation of wild to captive. Again you have been proven wrong that tigers are larger than lions, from countless of sources. The only sources you'd be able to provide is out dated, unreliable and weak.

    Lions stomp brown bears.
     

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