African lion vs Grizzly bear

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Monarch, May 10, 2015.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Then I wonder why none of these "experts"--or their staff or their students--has bothered to update the Wikipedia articles???

    Most scholars, at least in the Western countries, make it a priority to keep the Wikipedia articles in their specialties as accurate as possible, since it's the primary source of affordable scholarly information for hundreds of millions of people.

    I certainly do!
     
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  3. Monarch Registered Member

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    Ohhh? So if I wanted to skip masters, skip years in the field, skip everything, in order to become a Ph.d in auto mechanic, all I have to do is read Wikipedia and...boom...I know everything there is to know about cars? lol Thats not how it works, there is no science branch or categorize'd specifically for this topic of intra-specific conflicts, many like nat geo, animal planet and some small science organizations have put in insignificant opinions, but no one has weighed the statistics of a bear against a lion, biologist and ecologist dont devote their work for this topic but their betterment, they study them to try an understand and improve the welfare of these animals.

    Wikipedia is just made for the public, anyone can update it, edit it, or control it, it is not the platform but the person who is interested in its content. Most scholars? Most people dont even know the definition of jungle and what it pertains to, let alone care about updating things for the public per accuracy. Evidence can differ per scientist, but empirical evidence is almost always consistent.

    Some people dont upload things to wiki because there is no value in it for them. From what I heard, wikipedia has some billion people propagating their own views as bad as a bible vs a bible. So I wouldnt really care too much, since the content there can be changed at any moment, I rather get info from credible people than something that can be changed in a blink of an eye.

    Example:

    (Scroll down to the accounts of fights in captivity)

    Why does the english version have less accounts of lions killing tigers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_versus_lion

    Than the spanish version:
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C3%B3n_contra_tigre&prev=search

    Or the russian version:
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2_%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0&prev=search

    Hmmm, same platform, same site, same purpose of sharing things to the public, yet different content... Why is that? Ha ha

    Bias, agenda, ulterior motives...ever heard of it? If this was a true science category, I'm sure it would be answered, but in terms of its simple yet over whelming subliminal messages, its quite obvious which animal dominated through out history as the most powerful:

    Tigers in flags
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_animals#Tiger

    Bears on flags
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_animals#Bear

    Lions on flags
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_animals#Lion

    These type of emblem, heraldic and icons aren't just added yesterday, some flags have been dormant for thousands of years, and they aren't used for football, soda commercials and flashy decoration, most flags represents either the indigenous heritage, or a status of what they want to be represented as, a country wants to be seen as unified, in control and powerful, quite telling how much tigers aren't the king of the jungle as he is noted to be cowardly, passive and ferocious, even as big as he is, wild dogs rule the tiger undisputed, as big and powerful as the brown and polar bear are, they still fall to wolves, yet lions unified fall to no other predator frequently, they can master any terrain, and out compete any carnivore in their area...dont you think thats a little trifling in showing which is the most powerful of the three?

    He also has the most human related traits and quality's. The lion even with a male alone is still one of the most powerful of the carnivorous animals, he represents grandier, power and strength, he is also noble and magnanimous. Traits rarely found in any other apex animal.

    Again, you cite no credible source, sounds more like a sheeple tenancy to me, well others dont say that, so I can anything I see in my views in proving things right...lol No, we go off of facts, what science would call tangible proof or empirical evidence, and the people I've cited have both, nothing you've cited proves anything really. You just think something thats slightly bigger will win. The accounts I've shown refutes your views and arguments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Obviously not. But you'd know enough to choose the right one for your family, how to keep it in decent shape, and how to avoid the most common problems.
    I gather that you've never actually written or updated a Wikipedia article. I have. Mistakes are corrected before too long, and topics that are in the news are often blocked to the public and are tended by a staff of experts who have been vetted. Furthermore, the update logs are visible to the editorial staff and if they see too much back-and-forth arguing they'll assign the article to the expert in that domain.
    And perhaps because their spelling, grammar or punctuation requires too much correction: e.g. your "dont" instead of "don't."
    A gross exaggeration, which would also get you red-flagged. You're trying to convince us that more than ten percent of the human population uses Wikipedia, when there are entire populations who can't make a long-distance phone call without spending a week's wages? Yes, that's a problem. But on the other hand the ability to draw on the scholarship of several academic communities with their own histories and biases can't possibly be a bad thing.
    You seem to expect a lot from an absolutely free resource!

    By now, everyone should know that Wikipedia is not recognized as a reference in any academic context. The corporate world is a little more lenient, but not if it's going into a blueprint or a contract.
    With a bias like that, I absolutely cannot understand why you're wasting your time on SciForums. The "information" you'll find here makes Wikipedia look like the Britannica.
     
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  7. Monarch Registered Member

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    And your point? Are any of these mechanic topics a feuds amongs fan boys? Are any mechanics over zealous and hate each other so much they'd want the viewer to do things there way and not the another? You seem to be slipping from reality now.

    Ohh? Lets have a look at the wiki log for that subject:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiger_versus_lion&action=history

    Only ever one person who edits it, seem coincidental of that person trying to control the sites content? Experts domain? Again, like I said, what branch of science has experts specifically for this topic? There are none...and if you think that none of the articles favoring a lion will be removed in spite, in jealousy, in bias, in agenda...since you said you have contributed to wiki, lets prove my point right, just for a laugh...heres a list of over 50 times a lion has killed a tiger, all with their sources, cites, credibility ect:
    http://wildanimalwarfare.yuku.com/topic/6/Lion-kills-male-tigers?page=1

    Lets see you pick out your top 3, no need for the whole list, but just a smaaaalll amount of three, and see if you can get it specifically on the english versions lion vs tiger wiki....I bet you cant.

    So hundreds of people who tryed to edit in information supporting the lion and got banned because they couldnt spell, or because of bias moderation?


    10% ???

    Are you mentally ill? 10% of india is still well over a 100 million, thats just one country. I dont expect anything from the platform, but I expect the moderation there be a bit more fact checked things, which again none do for the subject, all you have is a bias person pumping in his own bias views and propagating something.

    Like I said, its not the platform, the board, the source, but what an individual can do with it un-checked. You still havnt explained the difference between the sites content, why is the english version lacking some stuff from the spanish and russian version, the hell with just lacking of one or two accounts, its lacking a whole archive of 100s of accounts, find it truly hilarious it has to do with the amount of times a lion has killed a tiger and not anything else superficial about the debate like a roar of status. Again, I havent seen you cite anything worth anything, not even low knowledge, just fan-boyism, acting sheeple, and denying hard facts. If you wish to remain delusional, than thats on you, it doesnt bother me. I am not here to press my views on any one else, just to analyze and weigh the facts, and you bring none.

    And bias like that? Exactly what part...all I'd like is for people to make up there minds of who'd win by dissecting... all of the evidence available... so you mean to tell me, just because the tiger community cant find more than 10 accounts of a tiger killing a lion, they have to dub out, erase and hide the hundreds of times a lion has killed a tiger? Ha ha ha, all I want is for people to know the truth, theres no bias in the truth...bro.
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    I have no credentials in zoology. Like anyone, I often look up the article on a specific animal for various reasons--a human being killed by one of them, for example... or more likely, would it be smart, legal, fun and affordable to keep one on our own two acres? Much as I'd like to have a capybara (they're adorable, gentle, amusing, affectionate and get along fine with other pets), the wife and I aren't going to the trouble and expense of building a swimming pool for him/her.
    Do you make a lot of friends with that surly attitude???
    Yet that isn't the attitude you display in your posting. You're angry, haughty, snarky, insulting and dismissive. Not to mention self-contradictory. You have berated Wikipedia as a source of information several times and in several ways, yet the majority of your argument seems to be from Wikipedia articles in other languages, most of which are not vetted as diligently as the English version.
     
  9. Monarch Registered Member

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    50
    Thats for sure.


    ....

    Ohhh? Kinda can say the same with you, its both your attitude and comprehension that is quite ill, how can you be so confident even when the same weight figures was provided by me many post ago? Its like talking to a brick wall, I show lions are bigger with credible sources, then you keep blabbing on as if youve proven by showing me to my face you weighed 100s of tigers and hand taped measured your self tigers taller than lions. No one is angry bro, I think your animosity is coming from the lack of argument.

    Would you mind showing where I contradicted my self? Or is this more of your genius wit youve displayed so far? Friends? Got plenty on subject, atleast they can comprehend.


    Awww, so no taking up the challenge? Thought so, anyone can see the logs, we can also see the dates those wiki accounts were added in, they were just put there recently, the accounts I showed was dormant there for 10x as long, so what more are you gona lie about? That site didnt get anything from wiki, more like wiki got it from that site. Yes, and I'll say it again, wikipedia, isnt any sort of reliable sources, especially on something that can be unchecked with no expert or mod that has any degree in that subject.

    English version? More like the bias person only knows how to speak english, hence doesnt know how to go by adding and manipulating the other languages. Again all that you say is empty, I dont need to adhere to someone who has made up his mind before even knowing any facts. You'd favor bigger things to smaller things regardless if there was over a thousand accounts of the smaller beating the bigger. Unfortunately for you, there isnt even 5 times on record a polar bear defeating a lion, yet countless of times lions have killed bears:

    Lion named Nero kills 3 bears and almost kills a tiger:

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    Otherwise, there would be more scraps between them than a few. "As it is, there are plenty. There was one lion we had that killed a polar bear and two Thibet bears, bit a tiger in the back and nearly killed it: and once, while in the runway after a performance, he grabbed a lioness and carried her into the arena. "Nero, as we called that lion, made a mistake that time, though, because the hole lioness turned on him in the arena and thrashed him well, hurting him badly in the fight. "There isu't cne of us in the place that hadn't been bitten and clawed a lot, generally, however, unintentionally. This' may Found strange, but it is true, nevertheless. "You see, the big cats don't know how strong t-hey are, and the curved claws are like steel hooks, curving inward as they i,.; and once they sink in. something ha to come with them. A lion can hurt you just as badly by placing his paw easily on your hand or lez and simply sinking his claws in and contracting them, as though he made a swipe at you and rea.-'K-d you.

    And the same is true of all the cats! Lions are the easiest to train as a rule, because less nervous than the others. It doesn't at what age you bozin to work them. and. as matter of fact, those direct from the wilds are easier to train than then born in captivity. "Most of them are just as notional as any woman ever thought of being. They take likes and dislikes, and they stick to them f,r good. "'I have a photograph of one of my lions taken with a Philadelphia minister, a Presbyterian. I think he was. who came into the place one day, and after standing in front of the cage for sometime, asked me if he could go into the case. I let him o so. and that lion just made the biggest f-- over him you ever heard of and kicked up an awful Vow when he left the caze. If that m:.n were to come in now and whistle for the lion, the brute would howl like mad uptil the minister went over to his caze and stroked him. "I remember once, in Buffalo, putting- a little black cur dog in a cage with a lion and tiger that worked together.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/135352445/

    Nero killed a polar bear and 2 bears, Prince killed a polar bear, Leo killed a polar bear named Peary, 2 lionesses mauled a polar bear beyond recognition, 4 lions fought 3 polar bears killing one and wounded the other, in oddessa circus a lion mauled two polar bears, Pete taylors lioness mauled a polar bear, Louis roth noted a lion who killed a polar bear, Alfred courts young lion Artis killed two polar bears and a Big lion named Brutus killed a large polar bear. With a slew of accounts of lions killing all sorts of bears, from sloth, grizzly, romanian brown bears, himalayin bears, atlas brown bears, Scandinavian brown bears, black bears and more. Yet only a hand full of accounts (less than 5) of lions being killed by bears, all which show details of non-adult animals. The account the polar bear killed a lion named dallas, it said the lion was one years old, the bear the lion killed in flordia showed the act with no lions with large manes, ect.

    You just seem frustrated that your arguments are empty, while mine is concrete in backing up all the advantages I've named lions have over the grizzly. Only you've contradicted yourself.
     
  10. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Are you a nut caze? Or a sock of FatFreddy?

    Either way, you're a jerk.
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Not to mention, lions are relatively social animals. The females gather in groups that are of appropriate size for the food supply, with their young, and typically with one male--although that one might be zero or two, depending on all kinds of variables. When the young males reach the age at which they can fend for themselves, they are indeed sent out to fend for themselves. Under ideal circumstances the males prefer to hunt in pairs or trios, but depending on circumstances they'll travel solo.

    Tigers, on the other hand, are more typical of the felids and generally prefer to be alone except for rather brief encounters during mating season.

    An animal with a social instinct is likely to be easier to train than a solitary one, although nature loves to present us with exceptions.
    Come on, folks, there's no need for insults.
     
  12. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Most times, yes. I just get all pissed off when trolls aren't shown the door quickly enough.

    Beg pardon.
     
  13. Monarch Registered Member

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    lol look whos talking, your avatar looks two shades away from a troll...and look at your posts:
    http://www.sciforums.com/members/dr_toad.279434/

    100% troll material, why arent you banned with such the trolling? Atleast my thread is pulling in some views, unlike any of yours.
     
  14. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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  15. Monarch Registered Member

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    If the males were down to zero, the hyenas would kill the lionesses, hyenas arent afraid of any amount of lionesses when they have the numbers:

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    Even a hundred hyenas is not going to challenge a male coalition, or 10+ against a single male lion sporting the largest of manes, hyenas with a clan of a 100 dont go out muscling rhinos, hippos and adult elephants, numbers dont in-fracture authority, and the male lions mane gives him the authority, power and strength over animals such as hyenas. You keep ebbing in suggestions like, lions cant hunt alone, males cant survive without females, that females dominate the males, I can show a 100 videos of males raiding female groups when the dominate male is away, can you show me a single female that submits, defeats and scatters a male coalition? So where is this the females have any authority to kick out or control the pride you keep mentioning?


    This is only one variable among's a hundred, some lions stay together their entire lives. Some leave and come back, some leave for good, some form their own prides by raiding others, some find stray lions and form prides, there is hundreds of community bondings lions can have, why do you insist (even though you've studied them not once in your life) that there is only a direct path these lions will have to take upon your own judgement? Who cares and what does that have to do with how a lion wouldnt beat a bear in a fight? This topic isnt about who can out survive the other, its about a inter-specific bout of their capability's.

    And a animal with a social structure would also posses more fighting experience than one who is solitary.
     
  16. Monarch Registered Member

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    Thats what I thought. Troll. Take that finger and shove it up your ass. lol
     
  17. Monarch Registered Member

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  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Indeed. Hyenas are fierce fighters and are so highly social that a large pack might indeed rout a community of lions. Fortunately they're not good climbers, so the lions can usually escape into the trees.
     
  19. Monarch Registered Member

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    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...619C946797D6CF

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    Nah, male lions in their prime dont run from hyenas, even from a thousand, he has the authority, the will and the gameness to fight against any odds to protect his cubs, something even the largest male bear will fall short of. It doesnt matter how much hyenas are there they are not gona attack because they will not risk being instantly killed by a single swipe from his paws.

    Bears flop as fighters against odds of have heart, courage and sticking power like the lion, once the bear is apted, he will take the defense and run, wolves dominate bears all the time, bears get killed by wolves all the time, you dont need a pack animal to supersede a brown bear, a single puma does that.
     
  20. Monarch Registered Member

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    Bear Goes After Jaguar and Lion Steps

    Friday Business Good-Many Incidents. There was another accident at the animal show this morning, but it was one of the animals and not one of the men that was hurt. Dewey, the lion, had a. paw badly chewed by a bear while trying to protect a jaguar from the bear. The carnival company said two polar bears that did a double act, but did not perform singly. One of these bears was killed by a lion about five weeks ago, and since then its mate has not performed at all. This morning he was let into the arena wit'Ii tho other animals to exercise, and he made an assault on the jaguar. Dewey, the lion, went to the rescue and the bear got 'him by the paw.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/15293892/
     

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