This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    I did not suggest that might makes right.

    I did suggest that the strong serve the weak and not expect or force the weak to serve the strong.

    How does your family structure work if not the strong working for the weak?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    How so when no Jesus as spoken of in scriptures has ever been shown to exist?

    What is wrong in not believing in a fictional character?

    If you are to literally believe in the biblical Jesus then you would have to believe that all the biblical characters are literally real and that would include talking serpents and donkeys and a genocidal son murdering God.

    Right?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,634
    No, even if I am.
    I can _definitely_ live with you not thinking I have any honor or morals! Indeed, if you thought I was honorable, I'd have to start question what I was doing wrong.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    How is he constrained? Because we think so?
    Seems kind of pointless to pass judgment upon something that is - literally - beyond judgment.

    If we are not suspending our disbelief in God then the discussion is moot. What purpose is served by judging the fictional actions of a fictional entity?

    I mean, ultimately, I'm OK with the answer of fictionality, since it happens to be my personal stance, but I was suspending my personal stance for the purposes of arguing the internal working of a construct. I assumed you were too.
     
  8. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Take it with a grain of salt. Faith is in life. What I believe is pacifism, that's what I make of Jesus. You need it for all gnosis, and happiness. And dis-believers had no luck. Peace has the power to make impassive violence go away, and he will burn if you let him.
     
  9. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Indeed.

    "Seems kind of pointless to pass judgment upon something that is - literally - beyond judgment."

    Really. First, what is written or believed of God is what is being judged and even scriptures encourage us to do so.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

    Second. To not judge what is evil as evil is why we incorrectly respect homophobic and misogynous religions like Christianity and Islam.

    Gays and women have counted on the rank and file to judge against such anti-equality religions. If a woman or gay who has been oppressed by religions, you would certainly encourage others to judge against such religions.

    Think as a victim and do unto them what you would want done for you.

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus, a pacifist, how droll.

    One of the Jesus, the Roman created one was but not the other Jesus.

    Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt if we can believe the words of Jesus reached us without being corrupted.
    His words were passed from one person to another as best that I can tell over at least one generation.
    The volume and complexity of his words as recorded are such that to say they were passed on without alteration, misquoting or misunderstood would be folly.
    How anyone can believe they quote what Jesus said ignores the reality that many years passed before any of the words of Jesus were written down. Add to that the various translations that came after how can anyone quote words and attribute to them the authority of Jesus.
    In particular the words quoted hardly seem to fit other teachings attributed to Jesus.
    I could accept generalizations attributed to Jesus but to claim he said this or that ignores the fact that there is no way what he said could be passed on over many years and be correct.
    This may not sit well with Christians but there is no way they can say any quotes they offer are indeed the words of Jesus.
    Think of this...
    I don't know my grand father who as a young man supposedly said many great things, his words were told by one family member to another, and now some 60 years later I decide to write down the words I have been told my grandfather spoke, so many they make up a small book.
    Could anyone actually believe I have the actual words my grandfather spoke?
    Alex
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What does any of this have to do with God? You're talking about scriptures.

    Is it possible that a more accurate subject line ight be "the scriptures are hypocritical and self-contradictory about God"?
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Trouble reading inflection here. Is this:

    Jesus! kx is a pacifist. How droll.

    or

    kx is describing Jesus as a pacifist. How droll.
     
  15. Great Old One Registered Member

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    88
    I think I understand what you mean.

    However, I am missing the part where God stopped being Evil and something to be loathed when correctly understood.

    Did that happen?

    Would you love God as extreme climate change ruins the Earth with a red giant sun?

    Will you greet the Devil with open arms?

    After all...it's you who destroys all of the good things of which you're capable of knowing?
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Still not sure why so many people seem to think God is our personal servant, whose primary purpose is to wave clouds away from the sun, save fluffy bunnies and generally make our lives paradiscal.
     
  17. Great Old One Registered Member

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    88
    If God is not concerned with the well-being of humanity then I'll not be concerned with God's opinion of humanity.

    Are you a man or are you a worm?

    Do the worms bother themselves with human opinion as they digest our corpses?

    I digress...

    The case of God's Evilness extends far beyond humankind. God is making the universe a frozen waste. His Evilness is universal in nature. It is not restricted to the fate of mankind.

    Everything good which becomes created, as far as we know, will eventually fall to ruin and become destroyed. There is no evidence to the contrary.

    Everything good will become a privation. Everything blatantly evil is icing on the Evil God cake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Just because he's not saving fluffy bunnies doesn't mean he's not concerned about us.

    Precisely. We capture anmals and test them, weigh them, measure them, probe them - all for the good of the species - in an attempt to conserve the world.
    The animals certainly regard the capturing as evil, hurtful (inasmuch as animal can).

    But they are not seeing the bigger picture. They can't conceive of the good we are doing - the love we have for them.

    Yet here we are, judging (what is ostensibly) the creator of the universe by mortal measures.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  19. Great Old One Registered Member

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    88
    That's true. Since His Darkness tortures and kills every man in turn it could be easily said that He is very concerned with us.

    He is probably concerned with our bad outcomes.

    It is fair for us to judge God using the evidence we have towards His character.

    His character is that of a diabolical monster as far as we know.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    18,935
    The general idea, I understand, is that he is concerned about what kind of a world we want to make for ourselves. Free will and all.


    It is fair for a hungry fox to judge us on the evidence too. As much as it is capable of doing.
    Does the fox comprehend world wildlife conservation? Habitat protection? Climate change?

    The one thing that separates us from the animals is that we are capable of levels of abstraction and recognizing that we don't know the bigger picture, and that we have a choice to withhold judgment in light of that.

    Why would we be so sentient about the world, but then act like dumb animals when it comes to recognizing our own shortcomings?


    (To clarify my position. I am an atheist, so I don't believe God exists (though I have no way of proving it), but I do believe the God construct is more internally consistent than atheists often acknowledge. What I challenge is not truth or falsehood, but badly-formed arguments, either way.)
     
  21. Great Old One Registered Member

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    88
    His Darkness kills all people. No exceptions. No matter what good you create it will eventually become an evil through privation. Free will is irrelevant to the determination that God is probably evil.

    This is just pointing out that an inductive argument for an Evil God is not a deductive one. That doesn't undercut it's power that God is probably evil.

    Sure, with your other inductive reasoning in daily life it could be true that you are wrong despite all evidence. There could exist an alternative explanation for the facts which you cannot access, which only if you could would explain how you were mistaken.

    That doesn't change the likelihood that you are correct in your determination based on what is available to you. The human conception of evil fits God. The human conception of good does not. It is far more defensible to claim that God is evil than to claim that God is good. Everything good from God can be shown leading to evil through eventual privation. There is no defensible resolution to the problem of evil for the good God. At best...those solutions rely on question begging.

    I'm not convinced that its inappropriate to label God as evil.

    He kills everybody. He destroys worlds. The last star in the universe will burn out and it will become a frozen waste resulting in information death.

    Saying that God created everything is no defense if His purpose was to torture everything and eventually destroy it.

    I would say that the conception of a good God cannot be adequately defended and that an evil God is perfectly reasonable to accept or not depending on whether you felt it was worth your time to think about.

    I also find it perfectly reasonable to say there is no such thing as God, that the conception of God is incoherent, and/or discussion of God is futile.

    If you stood, yourself, before a mighty being claiming to be your God then He would never be able to prove it to you if you were a picky person.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    An odd definition of evil.

    Essentially what you're saying is analogous to:

    I am poor. You loan me money. I buy food to survive. Though I was able to have a full belly for a day, ultimately you will get your money back. And for that, I get to call you evil.
    Despite the fact that, for a day, my belly was full.

    Compare to:

    We don't exist. God gives us existence. We create a world for ourselves. Though we are able to exist millions or billions of years, ultimately it will come to an end. And for that, you get to call God evil. Despite the fact that we existed, flourished and ruled our corner of the universe for billions of years.

    It sounds like the only way you think God could be not seen as evil is to never have created life at all.


    I'm curious. Your mom gave you life, knowing it would lead to your death. Is she evil too? Perhaps she should have done you a kindness and never conceived you?
     
    Syne likes this.
  23. river

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    17,307
    god is evil because he was political .

    I'm assuming we are talking of the monotheism god?

    So then he controlled the Earth , wanted to wipe out Humanity through floods . ancient tablets .
     

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