Putin's Puppet

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    5,089
    I should have added a sardonic emoticon.
    "The business of America is business." right? Every man his has price. Everything is for sale.
    This is simply the logical next step... or conclusion, if it turns out that way.
    Bad news for America? Of course! But an America of, for and by business has always been bad news for the less privileged half of Americans, as well as the world.

    Anyway, Trump isn't controlled by anybody - he can't even control himself. He's completely unreliable, as I'm sure Putin knows.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  5. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    "@ilduce2016: “It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.” – @realDonaldTrump #MakeAmericaGreatAgain"

    Better to be predator than prey a salivating Trump tells himself each time he addresses flocks of woolly supporters.
     
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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Trump got the religious vote because more religious people thought the Democrats were more morally corrupt than was Trump. Religious people based their judgment on long standing traditions of right and wrong. Trump may have a personality that is not PC, but PC is not a valid form of morality. PC is based on the scams of con artists who are trying to control free speech so it is politically easier for them to control their mindless herd.

    Trump was going to the make peaceful concession to the Democrats and other establishment types. He was once a Democrats and has bought and sold politicians from both sides of the aisle. He made many friends and allies. But since they all seem to lack the proper manners and respect for the new president, Trump may leave them all out in the cold. It will be fun to watch decades of social influence by the liberals and establishment types being washes away like sand castles in the summer rain. Hopefully, once the witch is dead, the zombies will awaken from their dream.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    So you are telling us that the people who believe in magical beings voted for Republicans and more specifically, The Donald. Well, that sounds reasonable. Long standing traditions of right and wrong....? Well in my tradition lying and deception has always been morally wrong. I guess all those "religious" people you reference have a different long standing tradition of right and wrong.

    Fact checkers have found that only 15% of Trump's statements are true, i.e. honest.

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/opinion/campaign-stops/the-lies-trump-told.html?_r=0

    Political correctness has become a cause célèbre with Republicans. But what is political correctness? It's just the use of inoffensive language. Why is it Republicans are so passionate about the use of offensive language? I grew up in a very religious home, and in my home the use of offensive language was always forbidden. I guess religion has changed, and change drastically. Because in my religion, offensive behaviors, and that includes speech, was never tolerated. Lying was never tolerated. My how religion has changed, and not for the better.

    Treating people respectfully isn't a scam and only in your right wing world of extremism does that even make sense. Ironically, the only people
    attempting to control free speech are Republicans and more specifically you man The Donald with his war on the First Amendment. The only people calling for penalties for exercising protected speech are Republicans and more specifically your man The Donald. As opposed to Republicans and more specifically, The Donald, no one is calling for legal penalties for the use of offensive speech. But if people think you are a jerk when you use offensive speech, whose fault is that? Are Republicans going to punish people when they become offended by your offensive speech?

    The real question here is why are Republicans so adamantly opposed to treating people respectfully, truthfully and honestly?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/politics/donald-trump-first-amendment/

    http://www.newsweek.com/2016-election-donald-trump-press-freedom-first-amendment-520389

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/20/trumps-act-war-amendment.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Trump got the fundie Christian vote - not the "religious" vote.

    Yet more evidence for the mentally crippling influence of fundamentalist Christianity.
    Trump also has an agenda that includes expanding the use of torture in police and military interrogations, expanding the influence of corporate money and commercial interests on public policy, and reneging on the promises of government defense of civil rights and liberties.

    Is that also in agreement with your morality, along with his personal behaviors (adultery, assault, reneging on debts and contracts, etc) ?
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    KREMLIN NAMES TRUMP EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH


    https://t.co/xMABxpgDut


    I'm wondering where this bromance will end or if it will end. Trumpie loves Putina. Where does it end? Given the size of Trump's ego, one has to wonder what kind of goodies Putina is holding over Trump? What kind of damaging material does Putina possess which keeps Trump loyal to him? Is there a financial deal we don't know about or does Putina have Trump partaking in a orgy? I don't know, but he's got something. Trump has been a very loyal Putina supporter, and that's not Trump. Trump certainly isn't loyal; just ask Christie or Giuliani.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Well hell... even Trump may have some morals.???
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    And that's important, actually. It should never even be considered - only confusion and error can follow from allowing that possibility into any discussion of Trump.
     
  14. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Mayb Trumps idea of morality is simply his ability to go along wit the values of those who praise him... especialy the ones who are rich an powerful... but only if they have the potential to make him richer/more powerful.!!!
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    #PutiTrump

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    "For any American leader, an attempt to subvert U.S. democracy ought to be unforgivable―even if he is the intended beneficiary."


    Okay, then. Even if.

    How about especially when?

    Oh, right. WaPo↱:

    Why is Mr. Trump so dismissive of Russia's dangerous behavior? Some say it is his lack of experience in foreign policy, or an oft-stated admiration for strongmen, or naivete about Russian intentions. But darker suspicions persist. Mr. Trump has steadfastly refused to be transparent about his multibillion-dollar business empire. Are there loans or deals with Russian businesses or the state that were concealed during the campaign? Are there hidden communications with Mr. Putin or his representatives? We would be thrilled to see all the doubts dispelled, but Mr. Trump's odd behavior in the face of a clear threat from Russia, matched by Mr. Putin's evident enthusiasm for the president-elect, cannot be easily explained.

    It remains unclear just who is supposed to be impressed by the Post’s challenge unto the shameless.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Editorial Board. "Trump refuses to face reality about Russia". The Washington Post. 30 December 2016. WashingtonPost.com. 2 January 2017. http://wapo.st/2isdm96
     
    joepistole likes this.
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    If - as seems indicated - Trump came to an actual clandestine understanding with a foreign power to aid in his campaign for the Presidency at the expense of the interests of the US , he would be the third known Republican President to have done so:

    Nixon, in 1968, with the Vietnamese Head of State: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/opinion/sunday/nixons-vietnam-treachery.html?_r=0
    Reagan, in 1980, with the Iranian Revolution transitional government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory
    Trump, in 2016, with the Russian Head of State Putin.

    These treasons date from after - or during - the Republican Party acquisition of the white Confederate vote. That faction, we recall, was associated with the most harmful and blatant of all such betrayals - the Confederate negotiations with France and England prior to the Secession and launching of the Civil War.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Well it has been pretty obvious for some time that Trump is keeping his business dealings out of the public eye. However I would be very confident that various government intelligence organizations ( thereto Obama) would have huge files and a pretty thorough understanding of Trumps international interests and business dealings. ( the tax office is one such Gov. organization)
    So far Trump appears quite comfortable knowing the above so what does that tell us?
    That there may be other reasons for his blind and apparent admiration of Putin?

    Reasons that gov. agencies have yet to discover perhaps?

    Or alternatively they have discovered it and are now playing a double counter esp. sting with Putin as the target?

    Either way I would suspect that the FBI, CIA and all those nifty national security organizations are not as stupid and naive as the President elect appears to be and are still doing what they are mandated to do and that is protect the American people and democratic systems. ( especially as Obama is still President for a couple more weeks at least)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You may also notice that Obama seems totally unconcerned about Trump.
    Given Obama's often emotional and public defense of the American way of life this is also very telling IMO.
     
  19. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Ah the liberals are crying their inside tears with azure photoshop delinquencies on behalf of Putin. Accept your losses, accept your wrong ways of thinking, and accept that you and the likes of Obama and the likes of Hillary Clinton and the likes...have failed. We, the people of United States, we the people of Russia, welcome a president who has won the hearts of Americans and their trust in an American not prejudiced towards blind liberalism and cold war, but to the silent majority.

    Trump has won and so have those who want Peace between two nations. If you can't accept your defeat, if you have to resort to namecalling like "Putin's Puppet" and photoshopped pink lips overlay on Putin, you dont deserve to be part of a nation that has chosen the way of Peace.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Stupidity and naivety among the secret police and "intelligence" services are not the primary worries.

    Couple of examples to think over:

    When Nixon used his connections in foreign government to induce the Vietnamese to block Johnson's peace negotiations and thereby undermine Humphrey's candidacy, among the steps he took was to have his minions threaten the Director of the CIA with loss of his job if he interfered and Nixon was elected anyway.

    Certainly when Reagan was negotiating delay of hostage release and then dealing arms to Iran, US intelligence agencies must have had a fair idea what he was up to - why they did nothing is speculation.

    When W required that the US intelligence agencies and personnel not contradict his claim of the existence of WMDs in Iraq, his claim of Hussein support for Islamic jihad, and so forth, they cooperated. Exceptions - such as Valerie Plame's husband - were severely punished.

    Among Putin's gains here is serious leverage against US intelligence agencies, via Trump.
    Obama is not known for emotion, or displays of fear or "concern". Whatever his thoughts on the matter, he has always been focused on what can be done. And he's a city lad, friendly with bankers and such - environmental stuff, where Trump's damage will be hardest to oppose and hardest to recover, is not on his front burner.

    He also has a track record of underestimating the irrationality of what has become partisan - Republican - dislike, bordering on hatred, of liberal ideals and liberal governance; of presuming that recognition of reality will sway his enemies even if argument cannot. He may be counting on that to preserve Obamacare in its essentials, America's basic scientific research structures, stuff like that. He's wrong, I think.
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that you repeatedly ignore the top intelligence agencies of the nation in favor of the word of someone who claims to be "intelligent enough to not need intelligence briefings" is telling.

    There will be no "peace" with Russia with Putin in charge - he has shown, repeatedly, that he simply takes what he wants without regard for others... your inability to see that is, honestly, quite sad.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    As an aside:
    isn't it funny sometimes that a sentence can be interpreted so differently to that which was intended...
    I have written:
    to clarify :
    that the security organizations of the USA are not as stupid or naive as Trump.

    I am stating that I believe in the opposite to what you have innocently interpreted.... hmmm....

    I have confidence that if those security organizations had good reason to be concerned about Trumps allegiances then Obama would know about it.
    And if Obama knows about it, he appears to be "on the surface" unconcerned as no doubt a good counter strategy is in place to deal with it.
    The security organizations may be maintaining secrecy in order to trap Trump and Putin in bed so to speak.

    Summary:
    • That the security organization have full knowledge of Trumps business and Tax dealings (inc. International)
    • That Trump knows that they do.
    • That the Trump File wold be huge.
    • That concerns expressed here and other places including by world leaders is fully appreciated.
    • Obama appears unconcerned indicating he has an unexplained confidence in the situation.
    • The severity and scope of Russian hacking (generally) is not to be underestimated
    I tend to believe the Russian hacking is only the tip of the iceberg so to speak and more is yet to be revealed and revealed very likely pre-inaugaration or shortly afterwards.

    The Russians would have hacked Trumps and Republican data years ago and most likely is the source of all the mess and would explain some of the really strange behavior we have witnessed through out this election process.

    Extortion/blackmail via Wiki Leaks placed upon many major players is huge and credible threat. IMO
    (certainly explains Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server and why charges and further pursuit by Trump to have her jailed have been dropped)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    This is a muddle - -

    I was unclear - I did interpret what you wrote as you explain you intended, and my response was to that. The examples, for example, were of the behaviors of competent and knowledgable intelligence services in somewhat similar situations (treasonous betrayals of the public trust by incoming Presidents).

    The worry, again, is not at all that the intelligence services are uninformed. The worry is what they will, or can, do. It's fairly clear that the FBI, for example, preferred Trump over Clinton. That's fairly alarming.
    Obama's appearance is not necessarily lack of concern, and not "unexplained". This is how he acts, and how he would be expected to act if the incoming disaster were fully what it looks to be or even worse.
     
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