Trump and the Judiciary

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I thought I'd start this thread to allow posters a forum to express their opinions on something that will, no doubt, become a greater and more significant issue as time progresses and the POTUS frustration increases as his ill thought and naive proclamations via executive order are interdicted by the Federal courts.
    The latest and current round can be demonstrated by the POTUS use of a public medium to "tweet" his paranoia for the whole world to read.
    His use of key words "bad", "terrible", "dangerous" with out any factual support is appalling IMO The use of Twitter mean he has no ability to justify his opinion and expects the reader to grant his opinion credibility based on their own fears and paranoia with out any facts to help assess what he is saying.

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    src:www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/donald-trump-says-judges-block-on-travel-ban-will-be-overturned/8241798

    Relating to the injunction or stay placed against his travel ban exec order by a highly qualified and respected Federal Judge.

    It is pretty obvious that for the most powerful man in the world he is incredibly fearful. Perhaps his meeting with the CIA scared the sh*t out of him when he realized more factually the depth and responsibility of his office?

    I would imagine that very few civilians would cope very well if fully informed of the threats the CIA and other security teams deal with on a day to day basis.

    Perhaps Trump is just overwhelmed by the gravity?
    Perhaps he was never born to be a law enforcement officer or a soldier fighting a clandestine and deadly war?
    Perhaps he has never seen a decapitated corpse or decomposed remains of children slaughtered in the name of the greater good?

    Perhaps he can not understand yet that the judiciary is a significant part of what actually helps him do his job, isolating him from some of the horrors he is being forced as a civilian minded inexperienced and essentially naive, President to endure, rather than hinders him....

     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump wasn't born to do much but party and be a spoiled brat. Trump doesn't think much. It's not his forte. He is terribly insecure as demonstrated by his overt and very blatant narcissism. But what is really scary are the people who support him. Jim Jones would have loved those folks.
     
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  5. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    100 years from now a great playwright will write a great tragedy relating the downfall of a great country at the hands of a small minded man.
     
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The more I read those Tweets in the OP the more wrong his attitude appears to be...

    ie.

    "The opinion of this so called judge, which essentially takes law enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be over turned."

    He claims that he has a voted mandate to place his exec order so therefore the Judge should abide by it.

    • Fails to see that his mandate only existing under the framework of the constitution. Kill the constitution and the mandate is killed.
    • The office of president exist only because of the constitution ( law).
    • Trump is attacking the very thing that grants him his power.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, he's not terribly bright. He questioned the legitimacy of the election he won. Now how bright is that?
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    ---off topic
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, back on topic. Trump's attorney general filed an appeal today. It will likely not stand. But he could take this to the Supreme Court. This could drag on for months. Ironically, Republicans did the same thing to Obama's immigration executive order when he prioritized deportions.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    and the status of the muslim ban is? On or off?
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Off or now, everything is going back to normal.
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    so the Appeal has to succeed to reverse the current status?
    If it moves to the supreme court how does that affect status of the ban?
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. This could go all the way the US Supreme Court. But the US Supreme Court is split at the moment with 4 Republicans and 4 Democrats. So we could get a split court, in which case the lower courts would prevail. The interesting thing here is that the judge who issued the stay is a Republican appointee to the court.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The key point I am attempting to discover is whether the Ban is "OFF" until a court says other wise?
    That he ban is not restored by being sent to the Supreme court for the supreme court to adjudicate upon.

    The ban is off until a court turns it back on....yes?

    This is important when attempting to assess Trumps motivation.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    So...a temporary ban may not be given the green light for many months... hmmm... sounds crazy yes?
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    The Syrian ban was indefinite. But this is going to be tied up in the courts: probably for months.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    If we assume that Trump doesn't really know what he is doing but Bannon does then what would be Bannon's motive in launching an obviously ( to him but not to Trump) flawed exec order?
     
  20. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    The Democrats may be strongly tempted to block Trump's SC nomination and Trump may decide to up the ante at that stage.

    I don't think he is a constitutionalist and so that worries me that Democracy in the States may be put at risk.

    Trump seems to know what his supporters want to hear and so I doubt that his base will weaken,much as I would like it to.

    Hope I am wrong.His evident fruitcakery does not seem to diminish his appeal so far even if he did not gain a majority of the votes
     
  21. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    There is little he could do, in the short run, that would turn his supporters off. They don't care about being politically correct, they know he is narcissistic but still consider him better than the alternatives and they did not like Obama and yet most admitted on a personal level he was a decent guy but they just didn't like his policies.

    So, Trump is not Obama, appears to them to be an agent of change and any outcries from others are just seen as Democrats complaining about a Republican President just as Republicans complained about a Democratic President.

    In other words, many just equate anything he does to anything Obama did that they didn't like. Many of them don't personally like Trump but they like what he stands for (whatever that is).

    Given that scenario (they don't like the guy but voted for him) it's hard for him to do anything that lessens his support. On top of that the Republicans have a majority in the Senate and in the House of Representatives so the Democrats really can't do much to moderate his actions ultimately.

    He has to piss off the general public enough at some point before the house of cards can tumble.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Trump HAS to argue the constitution and this can be a good thing in the long term as it tests the boundaries etc.
    However what would be really bad is if he deliberately avoids the constitution and forces confusion instead like he has just done with this illegal ( until made legal) ban placing the burden on the courts to constantly keep him in check. Due process takes time and the ensuing chaos is easily taken advantage of.

    An example yet to fully come out here in Australia:
    Government Auditors have recently found serious beaches of process here regarding two instances. Both total the appropriation and spending of a total of about 4 billion dollars aud that has failed to leave a strong audit trail. ( confusion reigns)
    So therefore there is a strong possibility that significant financial gain could have been obtained by nefarious actors making use of this confusion. It is staggering news for Australia yet it has received little press time in fact very few have bothered with it.

    Both deals are associated with race.
    1/ asylum seekers - border protection
    2/ indigenous affairs
    Both managed/over seen by a PM 2013-2015 that was recently and abruptly removed from office by his own party.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    For the very good reason that they won't know what it was.
    They didn't know what his policies were. Most of them thought there was a good chance he was a secret Muslim and stealth collaborator with terrorists, and that he (and his wife) hated white people.
    He has to alienate the Republican core voter, the base of support for the Republican Congress. Which means they have to find out about whatever it was he did.
     

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