You have certainly concluded that it is the way things are. So God is a wholly subjective issue??? How do you calculate that? It seems an awful big jump from God being "real" in the mind (i.e. wholly subjective) to God suddenly being what we are all expressions and reflections of (i.e. God having an objective existence). Why do the energies you refer to need an owner? Why is it not sufficient for you to simply refer to them as energies, for example? How is God anything other than a worldview, a means by which you can comprehend reality to your satisfaction, but with no actual objective existence? And a worldview that is only supported through circular reasoning?
Generally we can't help but develop mental pictures of things. So if you do, that is alright, as long as your intention is to advance yourself. The more you read, and understand, the hazing those mental images will become. To sum up, foster the right attitude, and your mind will eventually clear, once you start to absorb the information. You won't lose what you already know or believe, but you will be in a position to observe them objectively. You need to clear your mind, not full it. I suggest you just chill, and empty your mind of preconceptions. That way you can process the information without your own interpretation colouring it. Have you ever watch a movie, documentary, or read a book, that engaged you? Can you recall how you became engaged, and your state of mind? If so, that's a good place to start. All that shows is you have imagination, and you use for stuff like that. Why don't you put that imagination under check, and use it to gain a better understanding of God. I haven't fallen victim, period. But if that is how you see it, it's your loss. Remember it is your position that is lacking, not mine. There's not a lot I can say to that, as you have already made up your mind, and it is now closed for business. I accept that. Notice I don't say you're wrong, deluded, conned, or stupid. It would be nice if you could accept my position without the need put it down (however subtly). I'm sorry to hear that. Would you say you appreciate the art of walking now, more than you did when you took it for granted? In reality, there's no need for that. It is what it is. People may be out in wilderness with no knowledge or access to that kind of culture. Ultimately it is down to the individual person to realise what and who they are, and what is his/her relationship with God. The question of whether or not God exists, is an atheist one. Otherwise there is no need to bring it up. This is what I'm talking about. From your perspective you are correct, but from my perspective, you are without God, which is why you have no comprehension God. Is it possible that that could be the actual case? Then it's not currently for ypu But don't make the mistake of thinking you correct, and I am wrong. Gee! Can't wait till I learn to walk by myself, in confidence! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! You asked to mend some of my ways, please do the same. You're very condescending. It seems you try to be subtle about it, but aren't very good at subtleties. Jan.
I try not to Jan I really do but I do think its delusion and a con job I don't think you are stupid not for one moment. I can't stop thinking you are wrong and just as you think I miss something I think you miss something. No I don't appreciate the art of walking now I am back for taking it for granted at least my shuffle but I am happy that I can walk and if I need the wheel chair that I can get it in and out of the car...mostly I use a walker cause when the burning gets too much I need to sit down. And the walker is great to put shopping in. I dont feel less of a man or that crap amd so many old men do...and I can drive ..and that I don't need help. I play the cards I am dealt and know there are many folk who have it worse... I agree except I don't believe a god exists. I really don't care if others believe in God other than I believe they are being conned but except for here I never preach that God does not exist...I avoid religion and politics and except for here and the other place I go let others do the talking. Funny a girl at the pub said to me she liked me because I was a good conversationalist but I never say a word I just let her talk and show interest. Plus I don't look at her like she is a piece of meat probably makes her feel comfortable. I would like to think I understand your perspective Jan. I think I can understand how you see the universe. I tried to present that for others here a few posts back. I have a friend who is into tarot cards and he believes they work and it fawned on me one day he really does and I could see how his approach made sence to him. I have had a lot of experience listening to others I sort of enjoy trying to understand how others feel, how they see the world and how that interpret things. Once "they" would call me father confessor because I would listen without judgment. People seem to like talking about how they feel etc and I like to be sort of helpful and caring. I like being kind to people as well as animals. I try Jan. I am trying Jan but I am not perfect. You are probably correct. I don't mean to be but I have the sence it turns upon how others see me not that inside I think I am otherwise. I try to be polite but I do not consider myself subtle that's for sure but ones image of themselves often is not how others see them. God exists for you. God does not exist for me. I think there is a level you have yet to experience. You think there is a level I have yet to experience. Alex
I am in a position to say that the existence of God is not a fact. I am in a position to say that Santa Claus is more of a fact than God. I can sit you right down on his knee. Then why can you comment on people who are aware of Santa Claus, saying their comprehension and awareness are false? I pick on lots of things. Fictitious gods aren't even close to the top of my list. How do you know Santa Claus doesn't exist? That isn't what atheism is.
Why? I've confirmed, and have been confirming that God Is. Why don't you deal with that? What makes you think you are rational? Do you mean 'piece'? It won't mean much to you, but I'm okay with that. I would be just waiting my time trying to explain it to someone, for God does not exist, but tries to justify his position as the correct one. I'm okay with whatever you wish to speculate about God. God does not exist as far as you're aware, which means you're without God, hence the original meaning of atheist. You cannot currently go beyond that mindset. Jan.
I don't say you miss something. You do. You recognise that you are atheist don't you? It's really quite simple. I believe in God. That's all you need to know. You don't have to be perfect. Just think about what you say. Remember it is easy to put people down. If we both start doing it, the discussion will be short lived. Don't worry about levels That just confuses the issue. It is the way it is. Jan.
No. Facts have nothing to do with my awareness. Facts are facts whether I'm aware of them or not. The existence of God is NOT a fact. If it was, you could demonstrate it, like you can demonstrate the fact of rain. In any sense. How do you know Santa Claus doesn't exist? You don't have "experience of atheism" because you aren't constantly thinking about God. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. A baby is born atheistic. He/she is likely to hear the myths about gods and may or may not acquire a belief in gods.
I think I've broken Jan. Does anyone have a home address? Maybe go by and give him a nudge out of this infinite repetition?
I was just using your disingenuous tactic of special pleading in hope that you would get the point. I didn't mean it, Zen isn't anything like I was saying. But you see, anyone can claim special knowledge, but no one else has any reason to believe it without evidence.
(I swear Jan, I didn't pay Randwolf to post that.) This it the reference I made, back when the thread post count was a mere three digits.
Yes of course I recognise I am an atheist if I come here and am reminded that others such as yourself Jan believe in God otherwise when wandering about in the world I just think I am a normal sort of person, a man, a father, an astronomer, a guitarist, an artist and a decent Australian and so on but don't ever qualify myself as an atheist. God does not exist and I don't remind myself he or it is not there...I see people around the church sometimes when I go to MacDonald's for breakfast...I don't think of them believing in God in my mind they are just "bible bashers" a social group rather than believers in God. So when I meet someone like you its like "wow here is someone who actually believes there is a God" almost in disbelief and it is only my experience with my tarot reading mate that I can stop from blurting out "are you crazy". I get it that you do believe. I don't get how you can believe however. Similar to our Mormon mate who accepts that Joe Smith borrowed a golden bible from an angle and translated it with his hat over his face and returning the bible such that the angle takes away any physical evidence of his storey. I can only think.." Are they crazy".."how can anyone fall for such made up crap?". And yet some 20 million people believe that is true and I can't get past " are they crazy?" I can only rationalize belief in God as something that got into our make up over thousands of years of refining superstition causing a glitch in rational thought for some. Its like a dog will chase a car when thousands of years of hunting kicks in...he can't help it..I guess superstition has come come from thousands of years of believing nonsence. I often think the leaders used religion to maintain control and that they would not have believed what they forced the tribe to follow and that maybe my genes came from tribe leaders. I was happy to employ religious folk in my office. But my point is there is nothing in me which you say is a natural tendency to believe whereas I presume you somehow lean to the existence of a God. And when I find absolutely no evidence of God, and I work out the scriptures contain mistakes one can attribute to ancient superstitious folk and can't help feeling I am right. There is no reason a God exists other than as a product of human invention and I have no problem of even leaving out a small qualifier that there is always the possibility in the same way I have of saying there is no possibility that the easter bunny exists. So I must accept that you Jan believe in something that is hopelessly wrong in my view and refrain from calling you wrong and out of respect I will walk that fine line. I just can not wait until you get to the next level of enlightenment and abandon superstition and become confident you can say god does not exist without fear of being damned. I would rather relate on the basis we are both musicians. I have a need to explain why anyone can believe there is a God. Its like you hear about folk who self harm and you ask "why do the do that?" "What is going on in their head when they do that". I also wonder why folk buy old advertising signs as if they were desirable.. I wonder a bit about things humans do that seem strange to me. I know but I can't help thinking you must be crazy to believe there is a God and that you are wrong...and I feel bad that I do...you are OK Jan and it upsets me I can't be more accepting but I can't and I really try. I sat yesterday looking at clouds and trees but the more I thought the more atheist I became. You have a great day. Alex
I observe the Spirit train remains at station REALITY Still going Woo Woo Not taking any EVIDENCE on board as fuel Wheels still spinning No sign of it going anywhere let alone progressing to station SENSIBLE Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You think it's crazy, because 'You can't see God, therefore God does not exist'. To me it's obvious. At least you're thinking about God. That may come in handy some day. You don have many options, if you want to justify you position. So I'll leave you with that one. Well done. God just Is. Oh, so you have looked for evidence? Let's talk about that. What have you done? Which is why you're atheist. Everything you say about God, is from the pov of a person without God, and you don't know you're without God. Why do you like to discuss God so much, when you're a happy-ish atheist. Go and live the bit of you life you have left. Of course you do, what other option is their. You're without God, therefore God doesn't exist for. I get it. Just be happy man. I see that you like your condition, and such I think it best you remain in it, until such you feel you've had enough denial. It's obvious that God Is. I understand why you don't believe in God. Because God doesn't currently exist for. Simple really. Jan.
Yes thinking about God and how the prospect of existence of God is more than remote... for me. Of course I have Jan. And I find none. When I ask for evidence none is presented. Yes let's do that, given I have found no evidence, do you have any leads. Don't worry about what evidence do I require just put up anything you have. I think if you can present something, anything, that would be a good start. You mentioned how scriptures influenced you maybe start there... Maybe you had a situation that seemed like a miracle... I don't know what evidence you can call upon? I read the bible I read something you mentioned to me re the battlefield, I found out that cart loads of scriptures were sent from India to China, AND I have asked you today, and in the past, for the evidence you think could help. Well I came here for the science. Because I am not a scientist there is little I can discuss. With religion there is little to discuss and I find it novel. It turns on God s existence or non existence. I get sucked in. I enjoy reading the back and forth posts. I try and learn a different method of arguing to the way I do it. Good advice there Jan but there is not enough left to start any new hobbies. Talking about religion takes me away from reality. Very true. But your use of the word "currently" hints that you have evidence ready to present such that you will show God does exist. If one day I don't reply you can assume that Alex has left the building. Alex
Where you will find evidence of God, is not outside, but stems from inside your own mind. If you ever read the New Testament, especially Romans, the bible tells you where to find God. It talks about the outer man dying; product of the cultural superego, and the inner man being reborn; inner self. Most people don't understand what that means. The outer man is learned from the outside via culture. This is the herd man. The inner man is connected to independent thinking and intuition, which is referred to as the inner spirit of truth or Holy Spirit. In Romans the distinct is sons of God versus sons of the bond woman. If you are a son of God, you are above the mass mind. The atheists assumption of the proof of God is something analogous to, if you can't find fire under the water, fire does not exist. They look in the wrong place and then conclude it does not exist. This is why you try to get beyond the mass mind. Be not conformed to the world, but be transformed by a renewing of the mind. Conformity to the world is connected to the needs of the outer man. The bible says Jesus left behind a comforter who will be with you, as an inner voice. Read the Undiscovered Self by the late psychologist Carl Jung. This is an example of one area of psychology finding what had been known for 2000 years. This POV is taboo to many psychologist, who make a living off other others being dependent on them; outer voice.
If "God Is" does that make the bible is as well? :EDIT: Shut up Wellwisher and like a good Republican grab Mother Marry by the pussy.
Totally incorrect Most people would understand why fire does not exist under water Although underwater welders and rust might dispute that assertion But looking for proof of god has never been restricted to only under water Can you name any place where god has NOT been sought? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I said earlier that god is real (as in the mind of he who believes), but does not exist elsewhere...is that the way of it? Is it ...Although God does not exist you believe he is real so you can follow the rules men have made up which is how they think a God would want things and provide rules that should make life better but nevertheless that made up God in the mind does not exist outside of the mind??? If that is the case I don't need a placeholder, a god in my mind, to be at peace, be kind, avoid lust, gluttony and all that stuff. I don't get it...it is not out there why do you need a make believe structure to be a decent person? However I thank you wellwisher for your input. Alex
