I've never met a Christian

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because people have free will - and that includes the freedom to make mistakes.
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Mistakes in understanding can be corrected without interfering with one's free will.
     
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I tend to think that if God had a plan for the "salvation" of his creation that he would make sure it was written down correctly. Otherwise, what's the point? So, from that perspective I understand the "all or nothing" viewpoint.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, maybe he writes it himself. Or he comes down and appears before the writer. Who would argue with an appearance from God?
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly - and that's what's been happening.
    Letting people make their own decisions, perhaps?
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    How?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    By (for example) ignoring Leviticus.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The implicit nature of this God is that he does not micro-manage. It stands to reason that the point of giving humans free will is so that we find our own way. But presumably, he does have a 'success criteria' in mind.

    You wouldn't correct a mouse every time it went down the wrong corridor in a maze.
    Showing the mouse where the cheese is would defeat the point.

    You'd let the process run until either success or obvious failure. Then you'd reset.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    So Judaism is a mistake?
    Free will is a philosophical concept that has nothing to do with micro-managing things. And I wouldn't call slavery "micro". Besides, finding our own way is not a Christian value.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't see why you say that.
    He's set up a circumstance for us to worship him of our own free will. (Forcing us to worship him would be no fun).
    So, if he dabbled in it every time he didn't like it, we wouldn't end up worshipping him, we'd end up just mindlessly following his orders.

    If I wanted my child to create a work of art he could call his own, I wouldn't correct him every time he laid down a brush stroke. I'd end up with my painting, not his. But if he started snapping all the brushes in two, I'd probably have to step in.


    Well, Christians have their idea about how they think God wants to be worshipped. That doesn't necessarily mean it's God's idea.
     
  14. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    We Christians have a goal to improve our attitude .
    You have been raised under bibles direction . Now that you have learned , but not necessary accepted . So suddenly scream look at me, I am smart I don't need them. All the teaching are faulty I know better.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    If God knows the future (which is what a prophecy is), then maybe we are following the path he already set. It doesn't even matter if we think we are making our own decisions.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    We may know the future (he may know all possible futures). He may have deliberately given us free will for the purpose of surprising himself. Maybe - like a pregnant couple re: the sex of their baby - God isn't peeking.

    (Frankly, this is a great example of Devil's Advocate. I'm deliberately pretending that, not only does God exist, but that there's logic to his existence and actions. Ultimately, the rational answer to all this is - he doesn't exist. Problem solved.

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  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    If only

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  18. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    He does not exist for you but for many of us He lives and laid the path of life on how to live in harmony.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Oh Jesus Christ! You too?
     
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  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, then you're stuck with a few paradoxen about his existence and our free will.
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmm

    Have you looked outside your imagination lately and seen how tranquil and in harmony the world is?

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  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. I have never met a Jewish person who went around killing gays, so they pretty much ignore it too.
    If an external entity micromanages all your decisions - you do not have free will.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    For the most part it is.

    The world is not contained on the front page of CNN. It's all around you. And I can verify that within about a mile of me, everything is pretty peaceful - and that is true throughout 99% of the world.
     

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