He's already given evidence, which you reject without discussion. So he is asking what evidence do you require. So...? Just for laffs. An atheist observation no doubt. Seriously. What else are you going to think? How does an atheist recognise God? Jan.
It has to do with whether events, even just thoughts, are the result of a deterministic universe of cause and effect or whether we have personal agency to change things other than what could have resulted from cause and effect. You could be paralyzed, blind and deaf, and this question would still exist. It's more an issue of philosophical action rather than practical action. Are we really able to make novel choices?
No. It is an empirical observation. "I see stuff" is empirical. "I see God putting stuff there" or I see "physics putting stuff there" are both rationalizations of the empirical observation. Stuff is stuff - until and unless you posit a cause for it. And that posit requires evidence in order to be rational. You, jan, do that - just like any atheist or theist does. For you, it happens to be instant and automatic, but you still do it. i.e. "I see stuff. It's there because God put it there". And just for good measure: is an ad hom. It tries to imply that the observer's observation is less valid because of who they are. That's a logical fallacy.
After work I spent the afternoon just kicked back on a brick wall downtown, watching people, drinking coffee and enjoying the sun. Probably sounds ordinary to most people, but it felt exceptional to me.
That isn't true. I picked up on somebody else's request for evidence. I haven't seen anything to reject. As for as I can see, Bowser hasn't presented any evidence for his beliefs - in fact, he doen't seem to need any evidence for his own satisfaction. I can respect that. What I don't respect is pretending that there is evidence when there isn't. The same way that theists recognise unicorns.
How can it be anything else? When you look at the whole of life--everything--do you believe it an accident? I know that is highly simplified for someone searching for meaning where there is none, but it's the best I can offer in words without writing my own book. It's like looking at a cloud. It's as confused as can be in form and meaning, yet it is a cloud. Just like you are you. There's no rime or reason to your existence, yet here you are, being you.
Like I said, an atheist observation. You explain it how you like, other people explain it how they like. But it is nothing more than conscious experience. Your rationalisation of it requires evidence. Do you have any? What is the need in saying "God put it there"? When you see a park bench, do say "a human put it there? Really? I'll take you seriously when you address the real ad homs directed at Bowser. Jan.
So going back to my post #314 you see god in those? You really really don't see any other options? Your not even going to give physics a chance? not even a hearing? PHYSICS - you know uncaring, non thinking, non anthropomorphic Sky Daddy PHYSICS the one area where every scientists in the field is trying as hard as they can to make more and more accurate measurements of everything in the Universe to nail down how it works. In other words looking for evidence Religious persons don't need to build anything like a CERN With nothing more than the unaided eyeball, mystery of the Universe solved "Sky Daddy, thank you for our daily bread and this bountiful world with grass and as well as the exceptional Amen Really??? Sky Daddy, with all associated baggage, sounds more likely than physics? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I appreciate what you're saying but you are using a different meaning of free will. You are looking at it from pure cause and effect, and in what you say I do not disagree. But whether someone considers freewill illusory or not, it still exists, just as a mirage isn't what it appears to be but it still exists in its own way. A magic trick still exists, even if it isn't what it appears to be. So, irrespective of whether one is considering freewill illusory or real, it remains curtailed the fewer available options there are, up to the point that there is but one option, and then no freewill, illusory or otherwise.
You keep building a God personality "Sky Daddy." The only person that can be associated with God is you, and even that is a an artificial wrapper.
That's you being evasive again. You profess to know what I think but you can't tell us what you think.
Not an accident but the inevitable result of how the physical universe works. I'm not searching for meaning. Are you admitting that there is none? You sound like somebody searching for buried treasure who's thrilled when you find a rusty washer.
And all phenomena is explained as such, including yourself? Are you an expression of the physical universe? I don't believe there is any hidden meaning in life or existence. It simply IS. Perhaps I find treasure where you find rusty washers.
Yes. If you're satisfied with rusty washers, that's fine. I can find a use for rusty washers too - I just don't pretend they're treasure.
I don't think it's an accident at all. I also don't think it was formed by some supernatural entity, though. We now understand much of how life and the universe works - and there is no requirement for an external intelligence to create it all. That does not, of course, mean that the universe, our planet, life is any more amazing.
Would a bowl of oatmeal be a rusty washer, or would it be treasure? How about the moment you open your eyes in the morning? Would that be a rusty washer or a treasure? Sitting behind your computer responding to my posts--rusty washer or treasure? My attitude is, Bob, every moment is treasure.
Who said it is external? Are you an external intelligence, something separate from the whole? Looking at you, I can imply quite a lot about the Universe...God.
