Conservation of souls?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    The father of all.
     
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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Don't go away angry. That's not my intention. Maybe consider the possibility that you are and always have belonged...to something much larger than your ego.

    Best wishes,
    Bowser
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And from responsibility for their own lives, which is unfortunate. People "surrendering to God" is one of the reasons we have such a victim society these days,
     
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  7. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    How do you mean? What is a "victim society"?
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Explain please. Something like "the father of the BB"?
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Then the question becomes, "who was the Father of the Father"? And we end up with an infinity of fathers begetting fathers.....

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  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A society that tends to blame external events out of their control (i.e. God, luck) rather than blame their own poor decisions for their plight.
     
  11. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Each individual is his/her own story. So, you're saying people choose their own misfortune?
     
  12. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Do all things have a common source?
     
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    If we are to assume there is more than one Father.
     
  14. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    At some point expect to invoke some special pleading

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  15. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    There may only be one father... I only have one father...
    But I do/did have two grandfathers.
    And four great grandfathers.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    :raises hand reluctantly:

    Actually, that's the exact same problem we face today with the Big Bang Theory. If the BB creating everything we see, then what created the BB? And what created whatever created the BB?
    So, it's not a conundrum specious to God, but to all of existence itself.
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    What did they all have in common, that we all have in common?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that does pose a conundrum, but I would rather consider a hierarchical dynamical ordering resulting in fields of virtual particles, which combined can form into matter, than the formation of a sentient and motivated intelligence, which then just creates matter from nothing (Let there be light).

    It's that intelligent and motivated part that bothers me. It's an extra step that is really not neccessary in the self-assembly of a mathematical construct and philosophically just complicates matters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily, it may be a hierarchy of orders. But indeed all things do have one common denominator, Potential. But potential needs not be intelligent. It just needs to be dynamical to become creative. It converts a state of possibility to a state of probability. As Bohm so nicely put it in "Wholeness and the Implicate Order."
    http://www.gci.org.uk/Documents/DavidBohm-WholenessAndTheImplicateOrder.pdf

    And I believe this is a logical follow up to Bohm theory.
    See Causal Dynamical Triangulation;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I see it as a dynamical collapse causing a compressed energy singularity, resulting in a mega-quantum event. Banggggggggggggggggggggggg! Creating the fields from which matter emerges.

    The term "void" conjures a picture of implosion and that's all that is necessary for a dynamical (energetic) process of compression.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually you may have millions of grandfathers, from single celled mindless micro-organisms to every species on the branch that led to homo sapiens.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    In a great many cases, yes. Someone who decides to drop out of school, then later suffers a life of poverty and unemployment, has created his own misfortune. Someone who smokes two packs a day, and is later diagnosed with lung cancer, has created his own misfortune. Someone who lives with his Mom, stays on the couch all day and watches TV, then complains that he can't meet women, has created his own misfortune.

    There is a strong tendency today to be a victim rather than owning up to the consequences of your decisions. The high school dropout, for example, might blame fate, or the evil capitalist system, or the greedy rich people, or an uncaring world for his plight. The couch potato might become an "incel" and blame the Stacys and Chads of the world for his inability to meet women.

    There are plenty of good things about religion for many people (community, charity, a moral compass for a rudderless person.) But one of the bad things is a tendency to blame God for everything that happens. "Well, I will get a job, God willing. No, I can't go to school; it's too hard. But if that's in God's plan for me I guess it will happen somehow. If not, who am I to question God?"
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    As Carlin said: If God has a Divine plan why do people expect him to change is plan because they have a two dollar prayer book.
     

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